Man Of Steel (2013 Superman reboot directed by Zack Snyder)

[Greg1138 3]

I'm getting to the point where I'm tired of all these reboots and remakes. Hollywood clearly has no original ideas left.

However, I will say if anyone attempts to remake the Back To The Future Trilogy I'm gonna be super pissed.

Am I the only one who's heard the rumour about a remake being done as a Justin Bieber vehicle?

Not sure what to think about the Snyder news.....the guy's proved he can do serious comic-book movies.....but Superman?

[Quintus 5,399]

I don't know what to make of this. I can think of preferable directors.

I can't envision a "darker" Williams-less Superman - the character isn't as suited to that tone as well as Batman naturally is.

I'll keep an open mind, but I'm not expecting greatness. The traditional Superman story and tone is simply too dear to my heart for me to excited about a reboot. The fact is, Donner's Superman was, for the most part, extremely respectful of the source material, especially in terms of tone. I just can't see what a darker take would achieve. Is Nolan and co. tearing all the legacy up? Who would it be aimed at? Batman fans?

[TownerFan 4,983]

I think Snyder is an interesting choice (Watchmen, albeit with several problems, is an impressive feat imho). He surely has the talents to make a compelling movie from a purely visual point of view. We'll see.

However, we can kiss goodbye to a symphonic score in the Williams' tradition. I'll bet my money that Hanzy and his band will put their own stamp on this movie.

[King Mark 3,631]

Odd, I strangely don't care about another Superman reboot.

I hope they DON'T use Williams theme..they already desecrated it in the last one

[Richard Penna 3,694]

You can't let Ottman have his moment of competence can you. At least we got a pure orchestral score, and not some MV crap. I think he did an excellent job.

[Quintus 5,399]

I thought he did a middling to good job. Some of the action music during the airplane sequence (the end especially) was quite brilliant, but nothing else stood out to me.

If they do this new movie with the two note 'theme' minimalist approach, Nolan will join the list of celebs I can't stand.

[TownerFan 4,983]

You can't let Ottman have his moment of competence can you. At least we got a pure orchestral score, and not some MV crap. I think he did an excellent job.

Apart from the unbearable bastardization of the love theme, Ottman did a generic orchestral score which is nor good or bad. It's just generic.

[Quintus 5,399]

Yeah, I'd pretty much agree with that. In no way did he "desecrate" Williams' original, though.

[Wojo 2,453]

I'd rather have a so-called "reboot" than another film that attempts to continue the line of the Donner and Lester movies, which "rebooted" the subject material started with the Reeves TV show, which "rebooted" what was shown in the 30s. WB showed what it thought of III and IV by ignoring them completely for Superman Returns. That movie was so so restrained and awkward that a sixth movie in the franchise would continue to paint itself into the corner.

Was it set in the present day or the mid-1980s as required to be a few years after the end of II? If that is Kal-El's son, what implications will that have for Lois and Superman? Why is the only driving plot point of the series the idea that Lex Luthor wants land?

Superman is such a rich and cherished comic book character that he deserves to be shown on the big screen. The problem is that he's so powerful that most of his villains have to be other aliens -- or humans with kryptonite -- in order to challenge him. I'm not sure how they'll be able to step away from the shadow of II by making Zod the villain, but I doubt they should make somebody like Darkseid the villain right off the bat.

Don't forget, 1989's Batman was a reboot itself.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I have no problems with a reboot, I just wished they'd have picked a director who isn't the cinematic equivalent of being kicked in the face in slow motion.

I agree with previous comments on Ottman's score. I liked it, except what he did with the love theme.

I'd love to see Darkseid as a villain. Maybe if they don't go for an origin story they could use him. It's a bit dull that they're going with Zod, especially since he was one of the highlights of the previous series. An actual insidious and ultra-smart Luthor would be cool, as opposed to what we've had (something like him in the animated series or the recent (and very good) Superman/Batman: Public Enemies).

[Matt C 454]

I think people are overlooking that Nolan came up with the story for the reboot alongside David Goyer. I find it hard to believe Goyer will muck it up, since Nolan will probably do a quality check before they start storyboarding and shooting.

But Bates... *shudder* I pray Snyder uses his Legends of the Guardians composer David Hirschfelder instead. At least we'd get a symphonic score.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I only really like the first Superman. That's the only one that matters.

Honestly, II is for some reason widely considered the best Superman or one of the best superhero movies ever, but I just don't see it. The villains are good and there's a cool fight scene, but that's about it. Overall, it's lacking the charm and the fun of the first movie, and oh yeah, John Williams. And Gene Hackman just isn't in it enough.

[A24 4,345]

... II is for some reason widely considered the best Superman or one of the best superhero movies ever ...

It is?

[Charlie Brigden 7]

... II is for some reason widely considered the best Superman or one of the best superhero movies ever ...

It is?

Yeah. I always wondered, I mean I can see it because it's a lot more comic booky and less serious than the first, but I always saw that as it's downfall. Lester's tone was wildly different and very inconsistent and it gives the picture a strange feel.

[Wojo 2,453]

I have seen that pointed out in a few places as well, that II was better than I. I don't believe it, though.

I think that several years ago, II was ranked more favorably, but Richard Donner's movie is aging better because it took itself more seriously and didn't have to rely on so much humor. Although Superman vs. Zod is just awesome regardless of which director's version we saw.

I checked online, and IGN had a list (before Superman Returns came out) that placed Superman II at #5 and Superman: The Movie at #1. AComicbookBlog has a list from April of this year that puts Superman I at #9 and i]Superman II at #6: "Much like how Star Wars was outdone by it’s own sequel, The Empire Strikes Back, Superman’s 1980 sequel surpassed the original." Even that logic is open to argument. No surprise, but The Dark Knight comes out on top on this guy's list.

Everyone's going to have their own list.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

You can't let Ottman have his moment of competence can you. At least we got a pure orchestral score, and not some MV crap. I think he did an excellent job.

Apart from the unbearable bastardization of the love theme, Ottman did a generic orchestral score which is nor good or bad. It's just generic.

Unbearable?

I know nothing about music theory, but I'm not buying why making the theme a bit warmer (to my ears) is such a despicable crime. Another criticism I've heard is that the action music goes from idea to idea with no cohesion. Well I can think of plenty of Williams set pieces that jump a bit from idea to idea (Jungle Chase, Quidditch, Hedwig's Theme). And the new personal theme being simplistic... it's memorable isn't it? And the BotH theme from RotS is hardly rocket science.

I'm not saying it's the best score ever. But some of these criticisms hold little water IMO.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Nolan is going to rape my childhood...

[crocodile 8,017]

I'm not sure whether I'm excited or not, but I'm not disappointed. Yet. I don't really care for so-called classic Superman, because the version of my childhood was always the on of John Byrne (and later). Updating makes sense. They do it all the time in comics.

The one thing that bothers me is the score situation. Maybe he will pick somebody else than Tyler Bates. It doesn't have to be John Williams type of score, but there are other intersting possibilities. In theory, at least.

Karol

[Red 75]

The one thing that bothers me is the score situation. Maybe he will pick somebody else than Tyler Bates. It doesn't have to be John Williams type of score, but there are other intersting possibilities. In theory, at least.

Karol

I really, really hope it's not Tyler Bates. As far as the score being similar to the direction Zimmer took Batman, I wouldn't be so quick to think Nolan would go with that. He's said several times that he recognizes the tonal differences between Superman and Batman, so I don't think they'll take the same approach they took for Batman. But of course, with Snyder in the directing chair the chance for a great score goes down.

[Matt C 454]

I have seen that pointed out in a few places as well, that II was better than I. I don't believe it, though.

I do think the Richard Donner cut is far superior to the Lester-directed Superman II. It's a very rough cut that had to make do with reused scenes, two screen tests and some hastily-shot stand-in shots. Still, it's a lot less childish and campy than the Lester version. The criticism about it from die-hard Superman fans when it came out still mystifies me. It's not the perfect version one'd like, but better have a decent version than none at all.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

And the best thing about it is that it cuts most of Lester's crap out, including the lame comedy (as seen in III) and the big plastic S and magic powers at the end. Also, BRANDO for freak's sake. His presence alone in that cut makes it better than the original version.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Ehh...both cuts are weak and have inspired a billion fan edits because of it. I say, why bother. Just watch the fight scene and leave it at that.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Ehh...both cuts are weak and have inspired a billion fan edits because of it. I say, why bother. Just watch the fight scene and leave it at that.

They've only inspired a billion edits because of how Donner and the original film was treated (and how shoddily the recut was treated by WB). The fight scene, yeah it's cool, but the drama in the film, at least from the Donner cut, is what makes it really resonant. The whole scene of a god giving up his powers to be with a mortal and betraying his heritage and the remaining memory of his father and in turn a dead civilisation is the kind of thing that makes these movies great and a DC hallmark.

Hopefully once they've established Superman and maybe Wonder Woman they can get a good director and make Kingdom Come or something. That's what I want to see, not The Avengers.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

There's an Ain't It Cool News article about a JoBlo article about a Vulture article about Snyder. Merrick had this to say:

Snyder. I don't hate the choice - I'm sure the new SUPERMAN movie will look fantastic. My big issue with Snyder is a pervasive dullness that runs through his work. Lots of visual flare and tremendous sense of beauty and design, but it all feels energetically flat and uninvolving to me. Which makes me concerned that this new SUPES film might end up feeling a little closer in vibe to Bryan Singer's version than some of us would like.

Bingo.

[Wycket 36]

Except Singer's version looked dull and had no bright colors.

[A24 4,345]

A strange prediction. Singer's version was too sweet. They are not going to reboot it to copy the sweet and well-behaved vibe of Singer. Knowing Snyder, it will be less plain-dealing. Then again, a lot will depend on Goyer and Nolan too.

Alex

[Wojo 2,453]

Except Singer's version looked dull and had no bright colors.

Considering the dull shade of maroon they used for Superman's costume, you are correct.

I hope they don't reuse the 300 costumes for the inhabitants of Krypton.

[Wycket 36]

Except Singer's version looked dull and had no bright colors.

Considering the dull shade of maroon they used for Superman's costume, you are correct.

I hope they don't reuse the 300 costumes for the inhabitants of Krypton.

If you look at the production stills though, some of them show quite a bit of color and life to the costume. Shame, as is it just blends in with the rest of the drab attire and architecture.

[BurgaFlippinMan 7]

... II is for some reason widely considered the best Superman or one of the best superhero movies ever ...

It is?

Generally I'd say so too. At the very least it generally ranks above or equal to Superman: The movie....outside of this board

[Quintus 5,399]

I'd go wider than that and say outside of the film buff fraternity.

[crocodile 8,017]

Maybe the film will have a more traditional score after all. Legend of the Guardians: The Owls of Ga'Hoole (the title is so ridiculous I have to copy & paste it instead of typing it) directed by Snyder has a traditional orchestral fantasy score. And judging from the samples it is not terrible.

Karol

[Koray Savas 2,251]

They changed the title last minute to accompany sequels, like they did with Pirates Of The Caribbean. It was originally just Legend Of The Guardians.

As for the score, it's decent at best. No memorable theme, and it's plagued with a crappy Jonas Brothers-type pop song that they play over a montage and the credits. There were one or two scenes where I thought it was good, but like I said in my review, it has Lisa Gerrard-type vocals. Overall it's nothing special or original.

[gkgyver 1,645]

I'll finish Sucker Punch and get right at it.

That quote has some serious catchphrase potential.

And sounds oddly threatening.

[A24 4,345]

... II is for some reason widely considered the best Superman or one of the best superhero movies ever ...

It is?

Generally I'd say so too. At the very least it generally ranks above or equal to Superman: The movie....outside of this board

I findz tzat hard to believe. Maybe onzly in America, huh?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I seem to remember you thinking highly about the sequel, Alex.

Untill you saw it again after many....many years.

If you saw it in the 80's, you might remember it as being very good. But time really ravaged this one.

[A24 4,345]

That's why I'm so surprised, Steef. I can't believe that anyone under 35 is going to label Supes 2 as the best comic book movie ever. Aren't you folks confused with Star Wars 2 (Ze Empire Strikez Back)?

[JoeinAR 1,949]

ugh zach snyder. Watchmen is one of the most unwatchable films ever.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I don't really like anything of his that I've seen. I don't find him to be a match for Superman. I can't think of any current directors that really gel with the material. But then, who would have thought Donner would be a perfect match after doing a bunch of TV shows and The Omen. We need some talented upstart directors to helm these films, not guys like Zack Snyder, McG, Joe Johnston, Bryan Singer or Sam Raimi. Not at all.

[David Coscina 3]

I actually like all of Snyder's films. Yes, he uses slow motion too much but I would rather watch that than Michael (shit) Bay's frenetic ADD catered (lack of) editing style where no shot is longer than 15 frames. Also, would someone tell that douche bag that he either uses dolly/tracking shots or handheld but have a long shot OR lock his camera down on static shots and use editing to keep the pace brisk? I mean shit, anyone from film school knows these things!

As for Snyder, I do think he brings a style of his own to each project and he does do some things that I feel are reminiscent of the classic directors- ie balance close ups with long master shots, contrast hand held with dolly or tracking camera movements- in fact, he doesn't use a lot of hand held and God bless him for that.

I won't be too excited of Tyler Bates does the score. Nothing against him but his music is more sound FX which adds something but not a lot to the films. If Snyder gets Hirschfelder, that wouldn't be terrible. Or he could go into a completely whacked direction and have Thom York and Jonny Greenwood score it. That might be rad. Anything but frickin Media Ventures. Unless he gets Henry Jackman. I thought he did a terrific job of a super hero score in Kick Ass.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I actually like all of Snyder's films. Yes, he uses slow motion too much

What is wrong with slow motion for comic book adaptations?

Comics have still frames, that you can look at, and admire. Slow motion is a nice way to emulate that.

[Quintus 5,399]

I suppose overuse of it just irritates some people, in the same way that quick cutting irritates me. Guy Richie movies irritate me.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Quick cutting, shakey cam, that out of focus zoom-in thing, that shot where someone is backing up and you can't see what's behind them, then they turn as the camera pans and reveals something to shock you, inappropriately dramatic slow motion, that 360 circling shot, guys running around on an airstrip in slow motion at sunset with planes taking off (see: every Michael Bay movie for that last one). Lots of cliches starts to get under my skin.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Old coot!

Isn't that stuff why we goto the movies?

[Quintus 5,399]

I don't really mind film making clichés, depending on the movie.

[A24 4,345]

I actually like all of Snyder's films. Yes, he uses slow motion too much but I would rather watch that than Michael (shit) Bay's frenetic ADD catered (lack of) editing style where no shot is longer than 15 frames. Also, would someone tell that douche bag that he either uses dolly/tracking shots or handheld but have a long shot OR lock his camera down on static shots and use editing to keep the pace brisk? I mean shit, anyone from film school knows these things!

As for Snyder, I do think he brings a style of his own to each project and he does do some things that I feel are reminiscent of the classic directors- ie balance close ups with long master shots, contrast hand held with dolly or tracking camera movements- in fact, he doesn't use a lot of hand held and God bless him for that.

I agree, David. In fact, I love how Snyder uses slow-motion in that jog wheel style. Also, it's a relief to me that he goes against the omnipresent fashion of filming too close to the action (combined with quick cuts). With Znyder, 'movement' is very graphic. Through the use of medium and long shots, we see the mind-blowing choreography in all its glory.

He's one of my favorite directors working today, together with Paul Thomas Anderson and Andrew Dominik.

Alex

[David Coscina 3]

I actually like all of Snyder's films. Yes, he uses slow motion too much but I would rather watch that than Michael (shit) Bay's frenetic ADD catered (lack of) editing style where no shot is longer than 15 frames. Also, would someone tell that douche bag that he either uses dolly/tracking shots or handheld but have a long shot OR lock his camera down on static shots and use editing to keep the pace brisk? I mean shit, anyone from film school knows these things!

As for Snyder, I do think he brings a style of his own to each project and he does do some things that I feel are reminiscent of the classic directors- ie balance close ups with long master shots, contrast hand held with dolly or tracking camera movements- in fact, he doesn't use a lot of hand held and God bless him for that.

I agree, David. In fact, I love how Snyder uses slow-motion in that jog wheel style. Also, it's a relief to me that he goes against the omnipresent fashion of filming too close to the action (combined with quick cuts). With Znyder, 'movement' is very graphic. Through the use of medium and long shots, we see the mind-blowing choreography in all its glory.

He's one of my favorite directors working today, together with Paul Thomas Anderson and Andrew Dominik.

Alex

We might be the only ones on this forum with the same taste. PT Anderson is for me the last hope of a real American filmmaker and frankly blows everyone his age away. I frankly believe Chris Nolan is not half the director Anderson is. There Will be Blood is actually on my Top 10 all time greatest films right up there with Seven Samurai, Ivan the Terrible, Ran, Goodfellas, Jaws (yes, you read it right), and a few others that escape me at the moment. Snyder might not be PT Anderson but he's surely one of the most competent directors in his age bracket.

[Quintus 5,399]

I don't think history will prove you two right. Just a hunch, that's all. Snyder seems pretty good, but nothing out of the ordinary and certainly nothing special.

I also don't think Snyder is half as good as PTA.

[David Coscina 3]

I think a Woody Allen Superman would be freakin' cool. Supes and Lex could sit down and have out a philosophical debate. Or in this case, Supes and Zod.

[Elmo Lewis 6]

Yeah, Lex would be played by Michael Caine in Hannah and Her Sisters mode.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

We might be the only ones on this forum with the same taste. PT Anderson is for me the last hope of a real American filmmaker and frankly blows everyone his age away.

David Fincher? Joel and Ethan Cohen? Andrew Dominik? Terrence Malick?