Man Of Steel (2013 Superman reboot directed by Zack Snyder)

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I've stopped caring about superheroes.

I enjoyed SR, but every time I watch part of it I notice more flaws, and at the end of the day, what was the point of it all?

[Quintus 5,399]

They should just make a Smallville movie instead.

I always though they should have just brought the Smallville cast to the big screen for the film.

Lord, if they ever used that mail order catalogue model as Superman in any filmic iteration of my favourite superhero, I'd boycott. Smallville is nothing more than a spin on Dawson's Creek, but with the added 'bonus' of angst ridden super powers ie; cheesy garbage.

[Red 75]

Maybe they could use Shirley Walker's Superman theme.

[Quintus 5,399]

No. And that wasn't a bad theme either.

Don't worry, I know you weren't being serious.

[Red 75]

Actually I was. But believe me, I'm not worrying.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

They tried it. It didn't do as well as they hoped. It was a reboot of an older idea anyway. Here's a good idea. Why don't the big studios try to come up with a completely new film instead. Do something original. If we don't get a Hulk, Superman, or Batman film every few years I'm sure the world will go on turning. I really believe the blockbuster industry needs some new blood, not yet another film based on familiar characters.

[indy4 155]

I would be all for that.

I think one of the reasons studios do this is because franchises and sequels usually earn big bucks. During 2003 - 2008, the highest grossing film of the year was a sequel.

[Jamesyboy 3]

Man, after catching up on this thread, I feel like I'm a loner here. I really enjoyed Superman Returns. Routh did a wonderful job, the film itself had a great spirit, and I really liked Ottman's score. He did a wonderful job IMO. I was looking forward to Man of Steel. Oh well...now the studios will make Superman something he's not. Damn copycaters, can't come up with any of their own ideas, have to "borrow" somebody elses...

Jamesyboy

[Henry B 50]

Uh, kind of like Superman Returns borrowed everything from Donner's Superman? Returns was just a messy homage to Donner's film with some pretentious, soapy drama thrown in.

[Hitch 57]

I think they should freeze Superman in a slab of green kryptonite and bury the geezer for good.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

I think they should freeze Superman in a slab of green kryptonite and bury the geezer for good.

If Smallville can't kill him, then probably nothing can.

What a waste of a show. I stuck with it for six seasons and some change until I finally wised up and realized that no, it wasn't ever going to turn into a good series. There were about four good episodes per season, and that was enough for a while, but life's just too short to watch a show that fails so utterly. Good cast, though; Welling and Rosenbaum in particular deserved better writing.

This season, apparently, they've got Doomsday . . . and he's a bartender. What a pile of puke.

As for the movie franchise, I think they'd be wise to do a complete reboot, but maybe without feeling the need to retell the origin story for the umpteenth time. I mean, how many potential ticket-buyers can there possibly be who don't know that story?

Whatever they do, I'll be there to see it.

[Quintus 5,399]

Man, after catching up on this thread, I feel like I'm a loner here. I really enjoyed Superman Returns. Routh did a wonderful job, the film itself had a great spirit, and I really liked Ottman's score. He did a wonderful job IMO. I was looking forward to Man of Steel. Oh well...now the studios will make Superman something he's not. Damn copycaters, can't come up with any of their own ideas, have to "borrow" somebody elses...

Jamesyboy

You're not alone, I like the movie too. In fact I thought it was brilliant when I first saw it, but yeah, it has faded into meh territory slightly since.

[John Crichton 4]

My opinion has dropped too. I really enjoyed it in the theater, and it's gotten worse since though I still enjoy it.

[Ollie 1,059]

I remember being bored to death by Superman The Soap Opera when I saw it in the theatre.

[Vaderbait1 1]

Anyway, as long as Zimmer, and anyone else associated with Remote Control stay well away from scoring this upcoming Superman film, I'll at least have something less to worry about.

But you know they won't. Ottman's failure will be considered a failure of "classic" scores and they'll go the TDK route with Zimmer or a knock-off.

Either way, I wish they'd stop making Superman movies. THere's no much you can do with a character like Superman, and what little can be done has been done...at least twice each. Superman Returns bombed not because it was bad (which it was), but because nobody cared except the few die-hards.

[Bryant Burnette 654]

Superman Returns bombed not because it was bad (which it was), but because nobody cared except the few die-hards.

And when a movie makes $400 million worldwide based only on the interest of diehard fans, you know you've got a franchise with a lot of potential. Therefore, you make another movie.

[Ollie 1,059]

There's no denying Superman has potential and is loved by fans around the world.

However when you spend 10 years trying to get the franchise rebooted and your budget is near a reported $300 million, counting those 10 years of paying others to work on it that $400 ain't gonna do it.

So now the best way to reboot is to copy Batman since no one else is capable of coming up with an idea for Superman?

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

What is there in Batman to copy that would be suitable for Superman? Not much I'd think.

[Ollie 1,059]

Make him dark and brooding.

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

And don't forget REALLY personal!

[Ollie 1,059]

And don't forget the bland non-existent score with no theme.

[fommes 153]

The line between good and evil will be blurred!

Like in censorship.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

This could end being a remake of superman III....

I think they will use red kryptonite...

[John Crichton 4]

Ugh, I think I'm gonna be sick.

[Jeshopk 8]

Raimi/Elfman or Raimi/young would be fun

[Henry B 50]

Oh God! After Spider-man 3, no.

[Wojo 2,453]

I've seen Superman II exactly twice (original and Donner cut), but never saw Superman III or IV: TQFP. I know the basic premise of each of these films, and just never planned to see them. I also saw Superman Returns last week for the very first time, and while it dragged in sections, I enjoyed it for the most part.

Its heart was in the right place, but it tried too hard to be the "true" sequel to Superman II. Since it ignores III and IV, it hits on a few plot points from II (Lois and Superman's lovemaking in the Fortress; Lex's first visit to the Fortress; Clark the only Kryptonian left after Zod, Ursa, and Nod are stripped of their powers), and tries to explain away the difference as being only five years. Superman Returns is one possible sequel to Donner's vision that we needed about 15-20 years ago, while the sour taste of III and IV were still fresh in the public's mouth. That's why Batman Begins prospered: the public remembered good Batman movies and were willing to move past the two bad ones, besides the fact that BB was really good and offered a fresh origin story. But by Superman Returns trying to be the logical successor of Reeve's Superman series after so many years, it failed to live up to that and thus could not launch a new/continued franchise. Canonical or not, I was looking forward to the Son of Superman concept more out of amusement than anything.

So if they do reboot the Superman franchise, the next installment will have to be another "origin" story, right? Mixed blessings galore. As great as Donner's Superman '78 was, it laid down so much backstory for Superman that any directors felt trapped by how much mythology Donner (and Puzo and everyone else involved) had laid down, namely Jor-El's plan for Kal-El to basically be the messiah of humanity. Not to get religious or preachy, but was the original intent of Superman in the comics to be a parallel for Jesus, in tights and a red cape, who fights for truth, justice, and the American way? Because that's the way Marlon Brando's voice over makes it seem. It's not a perfect metaphor, of course, since the death of Superman would not bring humanity its salvation, it would kill millions to billions of people by the hand of Lex Luthor. If they wanted to bring the Jesus/Superman metaphor full circle, then by all means, please film the Death of Superman story, where his noble sacrifice to kill Doomsday means that humanity lives (and then Superman comes back to life again). Superman Returns bleeds with the trappings of that mythology.

It also bleeds with the inability to paint Lex Luthor as anything other than a real estate mogul. What were his motivations in I, II, and SR? A new west coast; Cuba and Australia; a new mid-Atlantic continent. (I realize he had other motivations in IV, but I didn't see it so I don't know anything other than his own Superman he creates). Is there any other depth to this villain beyond real estate? Please explore a deeper Luthor in a reboot of the Superman franchise, or by all means, go get us another villain. The best parts of Superman II were the fights with Ursa, Nod, and Zod (as well as his delicious overacting), so there are other DC villains for Superman to fight.

For a while, Lois and Clark: The New Adventures of Superman was really good TV. Then Lois found out who Clark was, they got married, Luthor died, and the show fell apart. Smallville is a protracted origin story that's just teenage soap opera drama covered up by comic book chic, but it's easier to sell a TV pilot with an attractive cast and turn it into a seven year event on The WB, than shove a $200 million movie blockbluster in the public's face and then try to turn the flop into sequels.

While the world doesn't need another Superman origin story since everyone knows the jist, in order to distance a new franchise from all the other Superman hooplah, it's probably what we're all going to get. Up, up, and away...

The John Williams music was a welcome addition to Superman Returns by adding to the emotional weight of the movie, but I don't think it's necessary to keep it for future Superman movies. The Superman '78 March, Lois/Superman Read My Mind love theme, the Krypton theme, and all the other themes belong to the films begun by Donner and Reeve, and followed by Lester and Reeve, Singer and Routh. For a new Superman with a new origin story and film franchise and cast and crew, it should get new themes. Keep Williams' music tied to Donner's mythology. After five movies papered with this music, there's nothing new here, folks. Time for something new.

[Vaderbait1 1]

This is a true story: Every time I see Superman Returns on TV or when someone I know is watching it, I ALWAYS see the same part. It feels like a freaking half-hour of him being weakened and then carrying something into the air. It's unbelievable how unimpressive it is and how long it is. It stands out to me because it's the same scene I always see for some reason, and it's always so freaking long.

[A24 4,345]

Smallville is nothing more than a spin on Dawson's Creek, but with the added 'bonus' of angst ridden super powers ie; cheesy garbage.

I'm glad there's still some observant people around here.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Smallville is nothing more than a spin on Dawson's Creek, but with the added 'bonus' of angst ridden super powers ie; cheesy garbage.

I'm glad there's still some observant people around here.

You grew up with PBS, didn't you?

[A24 4,345]

Don't change the subject. We've just concluded that Smallville is soap.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Better than the soap in SR.

[Quintus 5,399]

Wrong. In fact I'd rather watch Dawson's Creek than Smallville, but only if I was forced to choose at gunpoint.

[Hitch 57]

Don't diss the creek, man

[Kalel577 0]

I really hope they keep the themes, at least the fanfare and main title. Its as iconic to the character now as Monty Norman's "James Bond" theme is to that particular character.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I wouldn't be so sure. Superman himself isn't much of an icon anymore, at least not in my generation. James Bond has a constant presence for forty years and his musical signature has been as well. Superman has been in and out in various ways; the films that are now old, the 90s Lois and Clarke series, some cartoons and Smallville. Only the movies use the Superman march. I hadn't even heard the march till I saw the film for the first time, around the age of 11. It's nowhere near as embedded in the public consciousness as, say the Star Wars or Imperial marches.

However this is from me, growing up in Australia. Perhaps it was different in other parts of the world, but for me during the 90s when Superman was around Williams' theme wasn't. Perhaps it's because the character existed beyond the film (and therefore its musical identity) for years before in comics and films.

What I'm trying to say is, I don't think that for it to be Superman that it needs Williams' themes. Superman existed as an icon well before that theme did.

[Wojo 2,453]

That's what I said in my long soapbox rant in the last page. Superman existed long before John Williams was attached to the project, and will exist long after John Williams' music is no longer tied to the icon. At least, he'll exist in comic book format. As for movies, it all depends on how WB handles the subject material with the next set of films they want to make. The TV shows and cartoons haven't used Williams music and the general populace didn't bat an eyelash. Williams' style maybe, but his themes no.

I'm sure the same argument was made in 1989 when Danny Elfman's brooding Batman theme wasn't based on the "na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na na-na BATMAN!" TV show theme. That people felt it wouldn't be Batman without that music. Then people wanted Elfman's music for Schumacker's films, since Elfman's music (or a very good spin on it) was used for the Batman cartoons. Then some people wanted Elfman's music for Nolan's Batman movies. But Batman survived without the themes.

Granted, Elfman's Batman theme cannot hold a candle to Williams' Superman themes, but it's the closest thing to superhero musical continuity I can come up with. Since the X-Men movies don't have much musical interest to me, and the three Spider-Man films have so far been made by the same director and kept the same major theme for its title character intact.

Batman's about a man in a bat suit and truth and justice, not some music. Superman's about a man in a red cape and a big S on his chest and truth and justice, not some music.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Looks like the reboot might be a 7-hour epic trilogy a la LOTR.

Click!

[John Crichton 4]

This just keeps getting worse. Make the madness stop!

[FattyMcButterpants 1]

I wouldn't mind a Superman's death and rebirth storyline.

[indy4 155]

This has the potential to be very good, but after seeing Superman Returns...it would be risky.

[Red 75]

We'll just have to wait and see. I'll be very interested in seeing what writer and director end up doing it.

[Wojo 2,453]

The Death and Return of Superman would make for a compelling piece of film, even after having been done as a comic book, novel, and cartoon movie.

But I don't think that would translate into a 7 hour, three-part epic. I wouldn't object to a completely fresh approach, either.

[Ollie 1,059]

Does that mean Shaq can come back as Steel?

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Ah man, I remember that movie. I also remember Kazaam, unfortunately.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Everyone wants to be the next LOTR.

[indy4 155]

It seems like Superman wants to be the next Lord of the Rings, The Dark Knight, and The Incredible Hulk.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

Joel Schumacher is obviously the best director for the film(s). This information coming directly from veteran industry reporter John McMadeup:

McMadeup (MM): Are you interested in directing the anticipated "reboot" of the Superman film?

Joel Schumacher (JS): Oh, absolutely. I already conceptualized some story elements that would make for a very compelling film.

MM: Would you care to elaborate?

JS: Oh, absolutely. To begin, I think that Superman should get over Lois Lane and lighten up.

MM: Who would be Superman's love interest?

JS: Superman will not have a love interest. Instead, he will have a sidekick named Dick Gray... Dick Pearson, who was once a circus performer before his family was killed by Two-F... Mr. Free... Lex Luthor.

MM: I thought that was the plot for "Batman Forever".

JS: I found that film to be so inspiring, so I think we should reuse the nuanced story elements.

MM: You just want to see Superman in a suit with plastic nipples.

JS: Yes. I am so lonely.

[End of Interview]

[Wojo 2,453]

Oh please, Chris Nolan. Please, please, please, please, please.

I skimmed the article, but I don't like them calling the original quartet "mediocre." The latter two, yes, but don't put the first two down like that.

[Charlie Brigden 7]

Oh please, Chris Nolan. Please, please, please, please, please.

I skimmed the article, but I don't like them calling the original quartet "mediocre." The latter two, yes, but don't put the first two down like that.

Agreed. SUPERMAN and SUPERMAN II (especially the RD cut), even with the former's second and third act faults, are still very good movies. If they were talking about the original Bat-movies, I'd agree though.