What Is The Last Film You Watched? (Older Films)

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

No it's not!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,543]

Sorry, Steef, but Jerry's right. I've had this discussion with Alex, so often. Jerry says that he prefers to watch Ustinov, but he also says that Finney, et. al. also have merit. 

 

[bollemanneke 3,349]

TLJ.

 

Okay, I'm late to the party, but only have had access to an audio-described copy for a few days, so finally watched it tonight.

I had such high hopes for this one, given the fact that I really liked The Force Awakens. Back then, it seemed like I was finally going to be able to enjoy this franchise (Revenge of the Sith being the only one I had truly liked). But this? Seriously? I honestly do not understand what all the critical praise is about and still don't know whether I should think it was good-ish, okay or a travesty. Where to start? There are too many women in the movie. I have absolutely nothing against the opposite sex, but I've seen so many ladies playing 'powerful' characters recently that it's become a little absurd. This is exactly why I hate that new diversity obsession: it only works when you treat it naturally, not by forcing it into every single film regardless of the plot. Having said that, I did like Rose a lot and hope to see more of her in Episode 9 (yes, I will still watch that one). On to other problems. There are too many battles. There are too many stupid characters (Holdo and especially Hux). Luke's lessons with Rey are ridiculous. Luke's death makes no sense to me (and blimey, his voice has changed since Episode 6). I wanted more Maz. On the positive side, I found Kylo Ren quite a fascinating character, he just cried a little bit too often.

And of course, the score was good. When the soundtrack came out four months ago, I was stupid enough to listen to the whole thing before having seen the movie, determined to experience that 'this is a new Williams score and it's absolutely great!' feeling with everyone else at least once in my lifetime because I wanted to know what that was like and because I still don't see him scoring Episode 9, sorry. That also meant I read way too many spoilers: Snoke torturing Rey and Luke dying, for instance, though luckily, I didn't know how stupid that death scene was yet. I liked the first half of the album and hated the second half back then. Now I love the two new main themes (especially Rose's) more than ever and will revisit the CD as soon as possible. Other highlights included the Canto Bight music and another French horn theme that I can't give a name for the moment, but Luke and Rey's theme were placed inappropriately at least twice. The recording sounded massive and gloriously clear and the end credits are way better than the awkward album medley, though, and just as I thought that the final moments of the previous credits suite were Williams' personal farewell to the franchise, I'd like to think that this one contains the following musical message: Disney, what have you done?

[Jay 37,369]

1 minute ago, bollemanneke said:

There are too many women in the movie. I have absolutely nothing against the opposite sex, but I've seen so many ladies playing 'powerful' characters recently that it's become a little absurd. This is exactly why I hate that new diversity obsession: it only works when you treat it naturally, not by forcing it into every single film regardless of the plot. Having said that, I did like Rose a lot and hope to see more of her in Episode 9 (yes, I will still watch that one).

 

 

Well.  That is the strangest thing I have read on JWFan in a long time.  A long time.

[John 2,032]

33 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Back then, it seemed like I was finally going to be able to enjoy this franchise (Revenge of the Sith being the only one I had truly liked).

 

What?

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

There are too many women in the movie. I have absolutely nothing against the opposite sex, but I've seen so many ladies playing 'powerful' characters recently that it's become a little absurd. This is exactly why I hate that new diversity obsession: it only works when you treat it naturally, not by forcing it into every single film regardless of the plot.

 

 

Would it have been absurd if these "powerful characters" had all been men?

[Chen G. 3,949]

Men are, on average, far more powerful than women. So no.

 

Diversity in films, as in life, should only exist insofar as it conforms to the biological differences between the two genders. Women and men differ in more than just genitalia.

[John 2,032]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Diversity in films, as in life, should only exist insofar as it conforms to the biological differences between the two genders.

 

What?

[Chen G. 3,949]

There are things that you would instantly feel to be unrealistic when a film is trying too hard to “empower” its female characters: women physically outclassing a bigger, sturdier man; women being overtly characterized in ways that defy gender roles too hard.

 

Genders roles are not a social construct; they’re engrained, to no little extent, in the biological differences between men and women: it’s not just that we have different physical attributes; we, again on average, don’t think or behave the same.

 

That’s also why the existence of female characters is far more important than a diversity of ethnicity in film: because women, being a different beast to men, will have trouble relating to an all-male cast; whereas men of different ethnicities wouldn’t, on average, have as big a problem relating to a cast of different ethnicity, because race doesn’t correlate with innate behavioral differences, in the way that gender does.

 

Not that I’m saying The Last Jedi has issues in these regards, but it needs to be said.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

18 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Men are, on average, far more powerful than women. So no.

 

 

How many of these mentioned "powerful" women in TLJ are *physically* powerful? Aside from Phasma I mean?

[Chen G. 3,949]

Well, first, I didn’t say The Last Jedi was too unrealistic when it comes to the depiction of women. Mine was a general comment, voiced against the preplexity that people seem to feel against issues that others may have with equity in film.

 

And women are less “powerful” than men in other regards, too: they’re, on average, quite more agreeable and less assertive than men. But admittedly that’s something you’re going to have to work extra-hard to make feel contrived in film, because film characters - especially in these type of movies - usually manage to accomplish such feats and face such adversity, that you accept that they’re out of the ordinary, anyway.

 

But it is a strong claim against equality-of-outcome in terms of the gender breakdown of the entire cast: as is the case in the real world, some of the roles within this universe (say, within the Ressistance) will be predominantly male, and others - predominantly female; and very few of them, if any, will parallel to size of each gender within the general population. That’s perfectly natural. So if I see cast that is split 50/50 - it’s likely to feel unrealistic and contrived.

[KK 3,307]

There's a lot of bullshit being spewed out on this thread. And I'm not sure if much of it is really relevant to anything.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

15 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

But it is a strong claim against equality-of-outcome in terms of the gender breakdown of the entire cast: as is the case in the real world, some of the roles within this universe (say, within the Ressistance) will be predominantly male, and others - predominantly female; and very few of them, if any, will parallel to size of each gender within the general population. That’s perfectly natural. So if I see cast that is split 50/50 - it’s likely to feel unrealistic and contrived.

 

90% women would be fine then, or 10%, just not 50%? Because our current sexist times are proof that women can never, in another time (or another galaxy even), have equal opportunities? And because being "more agreeable and less assertive" couldn't possibly be related to being brought up that way in a world dominated by the traditionally "less agreeable and more assertive" gender?

 

(And by the way, after a quick rough count on IMDb, I'd say the main cast is still more than 50% male)

[Chen G. 3,949]

It’s not about upbringing, mostly. It’s rooted in our biology. Women are, on average, less assertive than men by nature, and that’s fine. That’s just the way they are.

 

It’s not a political statement: it’s a matter of fact, and one that - when defied - tends to make movies feel contrived. Certainly not an issue with The Last Jedi, but an important subject to discuss in movies in general.

 

I will say however: 

 

23 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

90% women would be fine then, or 10%, just not 50%?[...]women can never[...]have equal opportunities.

 

That’s not what equal opportunities mean.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Chen G is the laughing stock of JWFan this evening for an audience of Santa Monica area women rugby players.  

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'm about as hard right wing conservative as it gets on JWfan, and none of that shit really bothered me in TLJ.

[Marian Schedenig 8,200]

40 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

It’s not about upbringing, mostly. It’s rooted in our biology.

 

And you know that how?

 

40 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Women are, on average, less assertive than men by nature, and that’s fine. That’s just the way they are.

 

 

Good for them that you have decided that it's fine. They might have felt differently otherwise, but now they'll just have to accept it and be happy about it.

 

It also implies that men are more assertive and less agreeable, and that's just fine as well, so they won't let women have equal opportunities, but women don't have to worry about it. Because it's fine.

[Chen G. 3,949]

15 minutes ago, Margo Channing said:

I'm about as hard right wing conservative as it gets on JWfan, and none of that shit really bothered me in TLJ.

 

I’m not right-winged at all. To claim that women and men are not the same is not a right-winged opinion. It’s actually not an opinion at all. To oppose equality-of-outcome isn’t a right-winged opinion, either.

 

But this isn’t an issue with The Last Jedi. But I can see it becoming an issue with films not too far into the future.

 

Its not a political issue. It’s an element of realism in film. Few and far between are the professions (especially those that we see in action films) that are pursued by men and women in equal measure. If films “corrected” this, it would feel unrealistic.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Eh, it was alright.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Gender is a social construct. There is no quantitative biological measure for "assertiveness." What a load of shit.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

A man can have a vagina if he wantth...

[Chen G. 3,949]

6 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

Gender is a social construct.

 

Tell that to animalia....

 

Anything else is besides the point, because this is a discussion about realistic portrayal of gender in film.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Methinks you don't differentiate between sex and gender.

[Chen G. 3,949]

It’s not that they’re different or the same; it’s that the latter is firmly planted in the former. That’s science, but it’s readily intuitive to most, as well. So when that’s undone in films, we feel something is off.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

The women of classic Hollywood were tougher and scarier than the newer crop anyway.

[KK 3,307]

That certain films have a tendency to overplay the diversity card is one thing. But I can't see what warrants this impassioned, and quite frankly, misguided tirade on gender characterizations and generalizations.

 

No one is arguing that the male and female sex are biologically different. But I would love to read the paper that shows a qualitative biological measure of "assertiveness" (whatever that means...) between both sexes. Or more importantly, what that has to do with film at all, let alone this thread. Do you have specific examples of movies that do this supposedly great disservice to the accurate portrayal of females and their "assertiveness"?

 

- KK, who's just a little confused at where this thread ended up

[Chen G. 3,949]

Agreeableness in one of “the big five”, which are a very well-established psychological term, and women are generally found to be (again, on average) more agreeable, among other things.

 

Again, it’s thankfully very hard to overplay this in films, but as you say, films can nevertheless overplay the diversity issue.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

So what does that mean, they just automatically agree with men with little arguement or resistance? That's been the opposite of my experiences with them.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Well, the statistics say otherwise. Thankfully, protagonists in films tend not to be too agreeable or average anyway, so that usually isn’t an issue in the portrayal of female characters.

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Women... "agreeable". lulz

[A24 4,339]

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Wow, this has to be the biggest reaction to one of my posts so far. Just to clarify, what I meant was this:

1. The first 6 Star Wars movies were shallow, unprofound stories about good men fighting bad men. (Yes, Darth Vader is not shallow, I know, I know...à

2. I therefore find it ridiculous that every single general needs to be female all of a sudden, unless the First Order somehow had it in for the male section of the Resistance. Sorry, that's just my viewpoint. People like Holdo are the end result of our latest obsession, convincing the world that women can be powerful in a 'male way'. Why do women suddenly need to order men around? It's so overplayed! Remember that ENglish commercial that got a huge backlash because it showed a family in which kids and father made a mess and mother started cleaning it up? Women just are that way, they are more caring and more 'nest' orientated than men. What's so unforgivable about that?

[Quintus 5,399]

Heh, massive, sweeping sexism there.

 

The more you learn about people. 

[Mr. Who 919]

The only thing wrong with last jedi is that they dropped so many small storylines and continuities from force awakens and also Rey got way too little screen time in TLJ.

[publicist 4,643]

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

Wow, this has to be the biggest reaction to one of my posts so far. Just to clarify, what I meant was this:

1. The first 6 Star Wars movies were shallow, unprofound stories about good men fighting bad men. (Yes, Darth Vader is not shallow, I know, I know...à

2. I therefore find it ridiculous that every single general needs to be female all of a sudden, unless the First Order somehow had it in for the male section of the Resistance. Sorry, that's just my viewpoint. People like Holdo are the end result of our latest obsession, convincing the world that women can be powerful in a 'male way'. Why do women suddenly need to order men around? It's so overplayed! Remember that ENglish commercial that got a huge backlash because it showed a family in which kids and father made a mess and mother started cleaning it up? Women just are that way, they are more caring and more 'nest' orientated than men. What's so unforgivable about that?

 

Would you - and Chen, for that matter - really feel better if that character Holdo were a man? Do you feel threatened by the influx of non-caucasian actors as well?

[bollemanneke 3,349]

Okay I give up.

[Quintus 5,399]

To me your post was interpreted as, "how dare women upset the status quo." "Why are they spoiling my male fantasy?"

 

It was really impossible for me to read it any differently.

 

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

The first 6 Star Wars movies were... ...about good men fighting bad men.

 

To you they were, clearly. But I've never once in my life thought about Star Wars this way, personally. Goodies versus baddies, sure.

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 hour ago, publicist said:

Would you - and Chen, for that matter - really feel better if that character Holdo were a man? Do you feel threatened by the influx of non-caucasian actors as well?

 

No. I don't mind that.  I want female characters in films. The Last Jedi is nowhere near a 50/50 cast, which would be unrealistic in military organisations such as the Resistance or The First Order. Women are, on average, far less compelled to join such organisations than men.

 

Race is a completely different matter. Its a none-issue. Have as many black, hispanic and asian cast members as you wish.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

41 minutes ago, Quintus said:

To me your post was interpreted as, "how dare women upset the status quo." "Why are they spoiling my male fantasy?"

 

It was really impossible for me to read it any differently.

 

 

To you they were, clearly. But I've never once in my life thought about Star Wars this way, personally. Goodies versus baddies, sure.

I really did not mean it like that.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Nor I.

 

But people read into one's posts what they want to read into one's posts.

[Quintus 5,399]

The most obvious reading, nine times out of ten.

[Holko 9,529]

Monty Python's The Meaning of Life

 

Much darker and different than I expected, but can't say I'm disappointed. Some scenes are a bit weaker, some commentary is a bit too on the nose, some I'm not ever likely to be high enough to get, but overall still pretty good. It's interesting how this is the one where they didn't have to "beg" rock musicians to throw the budget together - but I guess a lot of the charm and genius of Holy Grail would be lost if they could've afforded any castle, costume and gigantic dance sequence they wanted instead of the shoestring budget.

[Chen G. 3,949]

Just now, Holko said:

I guess a lot of the charm and genius of Holy Grail would be lost if they could've afforded any castle, costume and gigantic dance sequence they wanted instead of the shoestring budget.

 

Oh, yes!

 

They wanted an actual horse for the opening scene and couldn't efford it. It would have ruined it!

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

Aladdin

Irresistably fun. Robin Williams is a genius. Great score and songs by Alan Menken and co.

Aladdin and the Prince of Thieves

Just when you thought the genie couldn't get any better. Rest in peace Robin Williams. Don't care for the plot of this one. Too many Disney sequels about finding parents and brothers and sisters that are long lost.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

No. I don't mind that.  I want female characters in films. The Last Jedi is nowhere near a 50/50 cast, which would be unrealistic in military organisations such as the Resistance or The First Order. Women are, on average, far less compelled to join such organisations than men.

 

Race is a completely different matter. Its a none-issue. Have as many black, hispanic and asian cast members as you wish.

But populations aren’t made up of even distributions of white and non-white people, having a diverse cast would be unrealistic. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

Did I say distribute them evenly?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Vicky Christina Barcelona

 

This is probably what people stereotypically think of when they're trying to imagine what a modern Woody Allen flick is like. You really have to be into it to enjoy it. I like how he continually takes the piss out of pretentious American artsy fartsy types who almost tragically lack any artistic talent.

 

 

A Dog's Purpose

 

I usually get a bit uncomfortable with animal movies. There's always a scene where they're in peril or die or whatever. Well this one isn't short of all that. Plays like a serious of vignettes rather like Hambone and Hillie and Cat's Eye.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

sPr overrated

[Mr. Who 919]

41 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

But populations aren’t made up of even distributions of white and non-white people, having a diverse cast would be unrealistic. 

Since when are Star Wars movies realistic?