Composer Threads The Official Howard Shore Thread

[GerateWohl 4,371]

There is a Shore concert from May this year in Paris on ARTE of his film and concert work. Haven't listened completely yet. But the suites from The Fly and Naked Lunch are great.

 

https://www.arte.tv/de/videos/114846-001-A/das-kino-von-howard-shore

 

[Thor 7,518]

In other recent Shore news, I also saw a Facebook post from the Cannes festival wherein he apparently held a panel there, with Martin Scorsese(!) as special guest. Would have loved to attend that.

[TolkienSS 407]

I'm just listening to Fire With Fire from 1986. I had no idea this Shore score existed.

It's quite different.

[Alex Shore 83]

On 18/06/2023 at 3:51 PM, TolkienSS said:

I'm just listening to Fire With Fire from 1986. I had no idea this Shore score existed.

It's quite different.

 

Some TWIN PEAKS vibes

 

 

[TolkienSS 407]

Oh Angelo, you're ripping my heart out, Angelo!

[Thor 7,518]

I don't get TWIN PEAKS from it, but lovely piece nonetheless. I was also unaware of this title.

[michael_grig 472]

English translation of the caption:

 

This concert dedicated to Howard Shore brings several iconic soundtracks to life: the soundtrack to Peter Jackson's first installment of The Lord of the Rings, of course, but also the soundtracks to The Fly and Naked Lunch, two films by David Cronenberg.

The Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France is also using this tribute weekend to honor Howard Shore as a concert composer. Thus, his "Fanfare for Organ and Brass" and "The Forest," a concerto for guitar and orchestra, can be heard as French premieres.

For this decidedly cinolastic concert, the Orchestre Philharmonique de Radio France performs under the baton of Ludwig Wicki. Gathered around him, in addition to the Radio France Choir and Youth Choir - respectively conducted by Lionel Sow and Morgan Jourdain - are guitarist Miloš, organist Karol Mossakowski, saxophonist Stéphane Guillaume, soprano Jiyoung Kim and tenor Cyril Verhulst.

 

Program:

Fanfare for Organ and Brass (concerto, French premiere).

"The Fly," music from the film "The Fly" by David Cronenberg.

"Naked Lunch", music from the film "Naked Lunch" by David Cronenberg

"The Forest", concerto for guitar and orchestra (concerto, French premiere)

"The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship of the Ring" for symphony orchestra and choir, music from the film "The Lord of the Rings: The Fellowship" by Peter Jackson

 

Recorded on May 12, 2023 at the Auditorium of Radio France, Paris.

[scallenger 483]

Still waiting on a release of what he did for Peter Jackson's KING KONG.

[Jim Ware 526]

44 minutes ago, scallenger said:

Still waiting on a release of what he did for Peter Jackson's KING KONG.

You may be in for a long wait, but it’ll be the 20th anniversary in 2025, so who knows* what might happen?

 

*I don’t. Please don’t ask!

[Corellian2019 386]

Howard Shore made an appearance tonight at NYC's Quad Cinema for a Q&A following a screening of Naked Lunch. Alas, I did not have the gumption to ask him for a photo or take a selfie afterwards while others were thrusting their merch in front of him to sign, but I did learn that he is currently working on a new Cronenberg film

[GerateWohl 4,371]

3 hours ago, Corellian2019 said:

but I did learn that he is currently working on a new Cronenberg film

That's brillant news!

[JTN 2,036]

I wish he was also working on a new Peter Jackson film.

[Jim Ware 526]

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

That's brillant news!

Presumably The Shrouds.

[Jurassic Shark 12,082]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

I wish he was also working on a new Peter Jackson film.

 

Isn't Jackson more or less retired / burned out?

[Thor 7,518]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Isn't Jackson more or less retired / burned out?

 

Not that I'm aware of. THEY SHALL NOT GROW OLD (2018) was a marvelous film, one of the best that year. And the GET BACK documentary wasn't shabby either, although quite a marathon to get through. I'd love to see another fiction film from him, though.

[JTN 2,036]

4 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

Isn't Jackson more or less retired / burned out?

What @Thor says.

[mrbellamy 6,288]

He's obviously not burned out from filmmaking in general but maybe from doing these giant blockbuster sized epics. Of course he could make something smaller but the docs have been a version of that, while still satisfying his technological ambitions and larger-than-life subject interests. 

 

I also kinda wonder if Andrew Lesnie's death had anything to do with Jackson not rushing back to the director's chair. 

[JTN 2,036]

7 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

He's obviously not burned out from filmmaking in general but maybe from doing these giant blockbuster sized epics.

He may have had enough when he had to do the HOBBIT Trilogy all by himself and it turned out they way it did (not good is an understatement). I think Jackson has to recharge his batteries. In my opinion he has another huge epic in him that needs time to develop.

To be honest I almost enjoy KING KONG more than LOTR (almost!), that he did right after finishing LOTR, I almost (again, almost) consider KK his magnum opus instead of his masterpiece of LOTR. And THE LOVELY BONES is also wonderful, if a little uneven and a deliberate tearjerker (but that was the intention of Alice Sebold's book as well).

So Jackson's post LOTR films are very good, which is a clear indication that he has a lot more in him than just masterfully adapting Tolkien's work. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,082]

22 hours ago, Thor said:

And the GET BACK documentary wasn't shabby either

 

Anybody can dump eight hours of archive footage and get an editor to make it somewhat interesting. 

[GerateWohl 4,371]

I am afraid, Braindead is still my favourite Peter Jackson movie.

[Jurassic Shark 12,082]

He peaked early.

[Chen G. 3,950]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

e may have had enough when he had to do the HOBBIT Trilogy all by himself and it turned out they way it did

 

All the testimony is Jackson is pleased with the films. Just because one doesn't like a film, doesn't mean the people making it weren't.

 

I spoke to Ian Nathan, and he told me that Jackson was very keen when Amazon asked him if he might be an executive producer on their show, and now we're told he's very interested in the going-ons with new films at New Line and is certainly hugely enthusiastic for The War of the Rohirrim. Hardly speaks to a person burnt out by the series...

[JTN 2,036]

11 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Just because one doesn't like a film, doesn't mean the people making it weren't.

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,082]

I knew it!

[Chen G. 3,950]

36 minutes ago, JTW said:

 

That video has been taken out of the larger context of the making-ofs. See, for instance, the following video where Jackson explains how they got around this issue:

 

 

Also, put the director's commentary of The Two Towers on sometime: You'll hear the dread "Winging it" comment spoken more times than anywhere in The Hobbit's making-of. Jackson is ultimately not the David Lean type where he plans every shot and then executes said plan: he was constantly rewriting the Rings scripts almost daily as they were shooting. Fellowship of the Ring had two different endings and at least three different beginnings, etc...

 

And really, just because the process itself may have been a little difficult and even grueling (what 266-day-long shoot isn't?) doesn't mean the filmmakers aren't proud of the finished result. Jackson has said as much in many, many interviews and certainly had every chance to recut the films if he so wanted, and didn't.

[Jurassic Shark 12,082]

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Also, put the director's commentary of The Two Towers on sometime: You'll hear the dread "Winging it" comment spoken more times than anywhere in The Hobbit's making-of.

 

And it shows!

 

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Fellowship of the Ring had two different endings and at least three different beginnings, etc...

 

And it shows!

 

7 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Jackson has said as much in many, many interviews and certainly had every chance to recut the films if he so wanted, and didn't.

 

He probably couldn't be bothered to do it.

[Chen G. 3,950]

4 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

He probably couldn't be bothered to do it.

 

I mean, he had all six films remastered. He could have easily sprung on the chance. I know he told Universal he'd love to recut Kong. No, it seems he's pleased with the finished piece. He also said as much:

 

Quote

once I was back in, it was a blast. This was the most fun I ever had making a film. I damn sure wasn’t going to spend five years of my life miserable, wishing somebody else had directed it. I was going to have fun and make some great movies. I had more confidence than the first time around. We shot these three more or less in sequence. I really like the third movie, I feel like we’ve gotten up a full head of steam up. I don’t want to regret anything in life, and I don’t. We made a lot of new friends. The Lord Of The Rings was this legendary experience where we bonded with so many people. I was interested to see if that could happen again, and it has. Some of The Hobbit cast are very close friends of ours, and will always be. 

 

Also here:

 

Quote

I came away from the end of The Hobbit more excited about making movies than I ever had. I just felt myself getting better and better, stronger and stronger as a filmmaker, and that is sort of embedded in the movies.

 

And to DP/60:

 

Quote

I'm very, very proud of the films.

[JTN 2,036]

Peter Jackson was never supposed to direct the two Hobbit films, but because Del Toro dropped out, he had to step in and do it himself, make 3 films instead of 2, without any prep. Seeing the end result and hearing what Jackson and others said during filming, it’s not hard to see how Jackson was “forced” to do the Hobbit films and he didn’t enjoy the process. Nor did many fans of the LOTR films, including myself. They did 3 long films out of a single book and it shows. In my opinion the Hobbit films are nowhere near the greatness of the LOTR trilogy. And I believe Peter Jackson feels the same way. One possibility why he didn’t want to recut the films could be similar to why David Fincher doesn’t want to revisit Alien 3: Because making them might have been such an unpleasant experience for him that he just wants to put it all behind him. When I saw the films, I felt almost as sad and disappointed like when I saw the Star Wars sequel trilogy. In my opinion The Hobbit films are huge missed opportunities that not even Peter Jackson’s genius could save. 
 

And I felt the same thing regarding the music. I couldn’t connect with it at all, like I do with the score to the LOTR trilogy which I consider one of the greatest achievements in filmmusic history.

[Chen G. 3,950]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

Peter Jackson was never supposed to direct the two Hobbit films, but because Del Toro dropped out, he had to step in and do it himself, make 3 films instead of 2, without any prep. Seeing the end result and hearing what Jackson and others said during filming, it’s not hard to see how Jackson was “forced” to do the Hobbit films and he didn’t enjoy the process.

 

This is special pleading.

 

Jackson had been developing The Hobbit since 1995, and worked on it seriously until 1997 when they went forward with The Lord of the Rings, then started thinking about it again in 2002 while they were wrapping up The Two Towers, and then again quite intensly after the trilogy wrapped. He was producing and writing it, and he chose Del Toro to direct, and to do so from Jackson's facilities and using his crew and his script.

 

So it was definitely a project dear to his heart, even if he wasn't originally going to direct it. I mean, Spielberg and Cameron produce a lot and we don't take their taking the producer seat as some sort of sign of disinterest in the project. Heck, the project Jackson was going to direct had he not had to jump on The Hobbit, he ended up producing: Mortal Engines.

 

When Del Toro quit, obviously it was a no-brainer that Jackson would step-in to direct. And - again, except for out-of-context YouTube videos, if you watch the whole of the making-ofs which are even more detailed than those of The Lord of the Rings, you will find that all the testimony is Jackson had scarcely been in a better humour as when he was shooting these.

 

Yes, he had a shorter preproduction period than he might like, but lets put things in proportion: all in all he had nine months, plus two breaks in the shooting schedule. That's not insubstantial, especially given that there was a lot of groundwork already covered either under Del Toro tenure or even back in The Lord of the Rings, being that this was a prequel, plus its 30% shorter. Like I said, the unabridged making-ofs, as opposed to the isolated bit you linked, show that, yes, they had time-crunch issues but they worked around them.

 

And, again, the Fincher example is a non sequitur. Jackson made three of these - and by all accounts made them as he saw fit - made extended editions through to 2015, remastered them to UHD in 2020. He's definitely not renounced them and in fact at every opportunity expressed nothing but pride over having made them. The mere fact that, as I pointed out, he had wanted and seemingly still wants to be involved in the future of this great film series goes to show the situation was nowhere near as melodramatic or acrimonious as you present it.

 

Its okay to dislike a film. But to infer from one's dislike that it was surely a mirthless job for the people making it is a canarad. Like, I hated The Rise of Skywalker. I thought it was appaling. But I see absolutely no reason to believe the people making it didn't enjoy making it, or thought they were making something worthwhile.

[Faleel 5,359]

I'm sure he didn't enjoy being in hospital, though.

[JTN 2,036]

40 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

But to infer from one's dislike

I don’t think that I’m the only person in the world who dislikes the Hobbit films or prefer the LOTR Trilogy over them. 

 

IMDb:

- Fellowship: 8.8

- Two Towers: 8.8

- Return of the King: 9.0

 

- Unexpected Journey: 7.8

- Desolation of Smaug: 7.8

- Battle of the Five Armies: 7.4

 

 

[Chen G. 3,950]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

I don’t think that I’m the only person in the world who dislikes the Hobbit films or prefer the LOTR Trilogy over them. 

 

That's not the point.

 

The point is that, to say, "its not liked, ergo the people making it must not have liked making it, or don't stand by what they had made" - is wrong.

[Faleel 5,359]

5 minutes ago, JTW said:

I don’t think that I’m the only person in the world who dislikes the Hobbit films or prefer the LOTR Trilogy over them.

Infer FROM.

[JTN 2,036]

3 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

That's not the point.

 

The point is that, to say, "its not liked, ergo the people making it must not have liked making it, or don't stand by what they had made" - is wrong.

Would you please show where did I say that?

[Chen G. 3,950]

8 hours ago, JTW said:

He may have had enough when he had to do the HOBBIT Trilogy all by himself and it turned out they way it did

 

3 hours ago, JTW said:

Seeing the end result and hearing what Jackson and others said during filming, it’s not hard to see how Jackson was “forced” to do the Hobbit films and he didn’t enjoy the process. Nor did many fans of the LOTR films, including myself. They did 3 long films out of a single book and it shows. In my opinion the Hobbit films are nowhere near the greatness of the LOTR trilogy. And I believe Peter Jackson feels the same way. One possibility why he didn’t want to recut the films could be similar to why David Fincher doesn’t want to revisit Alien 3: Because making them must have been such an unpleasant experience for him that he just wants to put it all behind him.

 

[Faleel 5,359]

2 hours ago, JTW said:

Peter Jackson .... was “forced” to do the Hobbit films and he didn’t enjoy the process. Nor did many fans of the LOTR films, including myself. ..... I believe Peter Jackson feels the same way. One possibility why he didn’t want to recut the films could be .... Because making them must have been such an unpleasant experience for him that he just wants to put it all behind him.

 

[JTN 2,036]

Just now, Chen G. said:

 

 

You took my comment out of context - like what you accused the video I posted of. Please quote the entire comment and you’ll see that I never state anything, I only say my personal opinion based on what Peter Jackson and his team say in the making-of video, and only saying my own opinion and show how IMDb voters evaluate the films. I’m EXTRA careful now not to insult or offend anyone on this forum, not trying to argue with anyone. 
 

 

 

7 minutes ago, Signals said:

 

“I believe”

“One possibility is”

“Must have been” - I’ve changed it to “might have been”

[Chen G. 3,950]

9 minutes ago, JTW said:

I only say my personal opinion based on what Peter Jackson and his team say in the making-of video

 

Oh, I'm not disputing its your observation - I'm not saying you stated it as incontestible fact or anything. I'm just demonstrating why I think its the wrong observation to come away from these films with.

 

Also, a very pertinent quote of Jackson's I found just now:

 

Quote

Having been happy to hand The Hobbit to Guillermo [Del Toro] and then doing it myself, I definitely ended up with a stronger sense of ownership of Middle-earth than I ever had before, and it would be kind of hard to sit back and watch another filmmaker do stories if they were connected to these ones. If they weren’t connected, then sure. But if it was something connected to this mythology that we’ve done, if I had the energy and the strength then I would really want to do it. Never say never!

 

[TolkienSS 407]

Steering this back to topic:

 

Do we think *Howard Shore* enjoyed the making of The Hobbit?

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,082]

You should all just accept that Jackson lost his film making mojo after the first LotR film.

[Chen G. 3,950]

8 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

Do we think *Howard Shore* enjoyed the making of The Hobbit?

 

I think enormously so.

 

I think The Hobbit provided a unique opportunity to Howard musically: it allowed him  to expand enormously on the music of the Dwarves, which ran all through The Lord of the Rings but was scarcely very significant to that trilogy.

 

And all those reprisals of little transitional passages from The Lord of the Rings like the music when Gandalf sees Thorin's map, or when Bilbo hands Frodo the Mithril vest, etc...

 

Now, whether Howard enjoyed making The Rings of Power....

[Faleel 5,359]

18 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

I think enormously so.

 

I think The Hobbit provided a unique opportunity to Howard musically: it allowed him  to expand enormously on the music of the Dwarves, which ran all through The Lord of the Rings but was scarcely very significant to that trilogy.

 

And all those reprisals of little transitional passages from The Lord of the Rings like the music when Gandalf sees Thorin's map, or when Bilbo hands Frodo the Mithril vest, etc...

 

Now, whether Howard enjoyed making The Rings of Power....

Do you think he enjoyed seeing half of it mangled in editing?

[Chen G. 3,950]

Its really not THAT mangled.

 

I mean, The Two Towers got mangled in editing just as much (Moria music over the Warg attack!?!) and we don't see Howard complaining...

[Faleel 5,359]

12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Its really not THAT mangled.

 

 

It really is.

 

So many moments of jarring screeching halts of flow.

[JTN 2,036]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Oh, I'm not disputing its your observation - I'm not saying you stated it as incontestible fact or anything. I'm just demonstrating why I think its the wrong observation to come away from these films with.

 

Also, a very pertinent quote of Jackson's I found just now:

 

 

I’m glad he enjoyed making the Hobbit films. Although I would say the same exact thing if I were in his position, having to make 3 films I originally asked someone else to direct, and after all that hard work, stress and all. But since that’s what Jackson said, obviously that’s what he thinks. 
 

Alas I didn’t enjoy the Hobbit films half as much as I should like and I haven’t yet spoken to anyone who thinks that they are half as good as the LOTR films, but of course that doesn’t mean that they aren’t good. 
 

What matters is that Peter Jackson enjoyed making them and is proud of them and they’re his films after all. 

[Chen G. 3,950]

29 minutes ago, JTW said:

I haven’t yet spoken to anyone who thinks that they are nearly as good as the LOTR films

 

Ah, but you have! 

[TolkienSS 407]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

 

I think enormously so.

 

I think The Hobbit provided a unique opportunity to Howard musically: it allowed him  to expand enormously on the music of the Dwarves, which ran all through The Lord of the Rings but was scarcely very significant to that trilogy.

 

And all those reprisals of little transitional passages from The Lord of the Rings like the music when Gandalf sees Thorin's map, or when Bilbo hands Frodo the Mithril vest, etc...

 

Now, whether Howard enjoyed making The Rings of Power....

 

He didn't make Rings Of Power, he wrote a title theme that solidifies my impression that writing perfect Tolkien music comes as easy to him as breathing.

 

He probably didn't enjoy getting a sniff of new Middle-Earth and being sidelined in the process.

[Chen G. 3,950]

3 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

He didn't make Rings Of Power, he wrote a title theme

 

We know Howard wrote the main titles music.

 

We don't know its all he was engaged to write...

[JTN 2,036]

8 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

He probably didn't enjoy getting a sniff of new Middle-Earth and being sidelined in the process.

Is it Middle-earth in the RoP though? In my opinion the Middle-earth Shore would have wanted to contribute more than just a main theme for is the Middle-earth that Peter Jackson created in LOTR. 

[TolkienSS 407]

1 minute ago, JTW said:

Is it Middle-earth in the RoP though? In my opinion the Middle-earth Shore would have wanted to contribute more than just a main theme for is the Middle-earth that Peter Jackson created in LOTR. 

 

It is Jackson's Middle-Earth. They just like to pretend it's not for ... reasons.