Lincoln SCORE Discussion thread

[Sandor 797]

If you haven't noticed, there are tons of other composers that keep composing unexpected music within their stylistic tendencies.

What composer out there does this or has done this more than John Williams? I mean Williams wrote Star Wars, Close Encounters, Empire Of The Sun, Home Alone, JFK, The Five Sacred Trees, Schindler's List, A.I., Catch Me If You Can, The Terminal, War Of The Worlds, Memoirs Of A Geisha, etc. Hasn't he been writing extremely diverse music throughout his career, much more so than most other film composers? Who are those 'tons of composers' who keep reinventing themselves? That Williams relies on previously succesful techniques is - looking at his entire ouvre - something that feels a bit anal to use against him. Again; Tintin has fresh and unexpected elements (like Snowy's Theme).

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm talking about right now man! Tintin is boring rehash. No one is talking about 70s Williams.

[Sandor 797]

I'm talking about right now man! Tintin is boring rehash. No one is talking about 70s Williams.

Funny that you couldn't even answer my question.

[publicist 4,643]

This simply is not true as I have read general soundtrack fans (not Williams-fans perse) praise Tintin for its fresh sound, even more than Williams devotees.

Roald, TINTIN is Williams in pure HOME ALONE 2/INDIANA JONES III/HARRY POTTER etc. tradition - and certainly at Spielberg's request. It's not any worse for that, but those idiotic claims that Williams, who is a traditionalist anyway and not an innovator, has been in kinky innovation mode for TINTIN is just plain bullocks. So is this score entertaining? Certainly. Is it original? Certainly far from it.

[Brónach 1,302]

Williams, who is a traditionalist anyway and not an innovator,

THIS.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I'm talking about right now man! Tintin is boring rehash. No one is talking about 70s Williams.

Funny that you couldn't even answer my question.

Powell, Desplat, Giacchino, Shore, Howard, and yes Williams! My whole point is that War Horse is a step in the right direction and that Tintin is not.

[Sandor 797]

This simply is not true as I have read general soundtrack fans (not Williams-fans perse) praise Tintin for its fresh sound, even more than Williams devotees.

Roald, TINTIN is Williams in pure HOME ALONE 2/INDIANA JONES III/HARRY POTTER etc. tradition - and certainly at Spielberg's request. It's not any worse for that, but those idiotic claims that Williams, who is a traditionalist anyway and not an innovator, has been in kinky innovation mode for TINTIN is just plain bullocks. So is this score entertaining? Certainly. Is it original? Certainly far from it.

I never said Tintin was some kind of 'kinky innovation'.

I said that I see evolutionary changes in Williams' writing throughout his career.

And I guess there are really two ways to look at all matters in life: either the glass is half empty or the glass is half full.

I'm the kind of person who almost always chooses the latter viewpoint. Call it naive or dull, but it makes me enjoy a lot of things with ease. Yes, even Tintin. I'll treasure moments like Snowy's Theme, Sir Francis And The Unicorn and The Adventure Continues for a very long time. Those themes really form the heart of Tintin and it is the music I return to often.

Powell, Desplat, Giacchino, Shore, Howard, and yes Williams! My whole point is that War Horse is a step in the right direction and that Tintin is not.

It seems kinda smart adding Williams in there, but it really makes your initial question related to 'innovators' in the thread rather pointless.

Funny to note that this discussion actually started with me defending War Horse when another member stated that War Horse was a rehash.

I guess 'originality' and 'innovation' is - like so many things - in the eye of the beholder.

[publicist 4,643]

And I guess there are really two ways to look at all matters in life: either the glass is half empty or the glass is half full.

I'm the kind of person who almost always chooses the latter viewpoint. Call it naive or dull, but it makes me enjoy a lot of things with ease.n.

I guess 'originality' and 'innovation' is - like so many things - in the eye of the beholder.

This has got nothing to do with you being a starry-eyed optimist vs. a world full of miserable sourpusses. It rather is the puzzling old problem that a lot of fans are either not able or not willing to just sit back and relax at the fact that what they like isn't always automatically some kind of manna from heaven - or, in this case, not more than a well-crafted adventure score rooted in countless others written before it (and not only by JW, btw).

[crocodile 8,022]

It's funny that so many people hear new Williams style developments in both War Horse and Tin Tin. It's the opposite for me. I hear slightly younger Williams (80's and 90's) in the two works, rather than what is in my opinion a more progressive post-2000 output.

Karol

[Jay 37,404]

It's Tintin, not Tin Tin.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Sandor 797]

And I guess there are really two ways to look at all matters in life: either the glass is half empty or the glass is half full.

I'm the kind of person who almost always chooses the latter viewpoint. Call it naive or dull, but it makes me enjoy a lot of things with ease.n.

I guess 'originality' and 'innovation' is - like so many things - in the eye of the beholder.

This has got nothing to do with you being a starry-eyed optimist vs. a world full of miserable sourpusses. It rather is the puzzling old problem that a lot of fans are either not able or not willing to just sit back and relax at the fact that what they like isn't always automatically some kind of manna from heaven - or, in this case, not more than a well-crafted adventure score rooted in countless others written before it (and not only by JW, btw).

Just because I enjoy the score and focus on its positives doesn't mean it equals 'manna from heaven' to me. That would be something on the level of E.T. or Close Encounters.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Most people here do really want JW to just write 5 star classic scores, and get a bit miffed when he does something like Nixon, WOTW, Tintin or War Horse.

[Faleel 5,373]

Most people here do really want JW to just write 5 star classic scores, and get a bit miffed when he does something like Nixon, War Horse.

Nixon isn't a 5 star score?

[Admiral Holdo 16]

Nixon is the most underrated score in Williams' canon.

[indy4 155]

I dunno. Nixon is one of those scores that are rarely discussed, but when they are they are generally appreciated. An actually underrated score would probably be AotC or something like that. Nixon is definitely underdiscussed, though.

[gkgyver 1,646]

AotC isn't underrated, it is overrated.

Nixon on the other hand is a good score. At least I don't feel the urge to punctuate my ears while listening to it like in AotC.

[Admiral Holdo 16]

The only thing I care about in Attack of the Clones is a melody that was derived from Nixon anyway.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Man, is Attack of the Clones underrated!

[Romão 2,274]

Nixon is a brilliant, intelligent and highly nuanced score. There's a lot to digest in those 40 somethig minutes

[Not Mr. Big 4,644]

Nixon is has some cool moments but in the whole is pretty unpleasant.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

It reminds me of rainy days.

[Faleel 5,373]

At least I don't feel the urge to punctuate my ears while listening to it like in AotC.

I don't feel like that with AOTC...

now Zimmer/Jablonsky/Badelt scores, thats a different story.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Name me a Badelt score that doesn't have the word Pirate in it.

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

It's Tintin, not Tin Tin.

Let's face it: "Tin Tin" is the new "Jar-Jar."

[Datameister 2,047]

Most people here do really want JW to just write 5 star classic scores, and get a bit miffed when he does something like Nixon, WOTW, Tintin or War Horse.

Williams hasn't been at the very top of his game since the early or mid 80s. Some of the qualities that make his best work so enduringly wonderful have been in slow decline in his later scores. There won't be another "5 star classic score" from him, and that's okay. Every artist undergoes creative changes over his or her lifetime, and the best work is usually followed by stuff that's still great but not as good.

That being said, I do think it's entirely reasonable to want Williams to return a bit to his roots, since that's what most of us fell in love with. And that's why I love War Horse so much, as a matter of fact - it feels a lot more like inspired classic Williams, even though it's hardly on such transcendent levels of awesomeness as, say, E.T. or Raiders or whatnot.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

I prefer 90s/00s JW over 70s/80s JW on the whole, I think. But then I think about it and each half has got some fucking awesome music.

[King Mark 3,631]

Williams hasn't been at the very top of his game since the early or mid 80s. Some of the qualities that make his best work so enduringly wonderful have been in slow decline in his later scores. There won't be another "5 star classic score" from him, and that's okay. Every artist undergoes creative changes over his or her lifetime, and the best work is usually followed by stuff that's still great but not as good.

HPSS is a true Williams 5 star score.

And I think the Prequels are not quite 5 but 4-4 1/2

[indy4 155]

I don't think JW has gotten better or worse since the so called "golden age." He's just gotten different.

[Incanus 5,722]

I do think many 90's and 2000's scores like Angela's Ashes, Memoirs of a Geisha, A.I.-Artificial Intelligence and many others are 5 star material in my book. Whether this gets someone's curls in an uproar for my apparent lack of perspective or for my blind fanboyism is of no consequence. All I know is that his music still has the power to excite me, move and and touch me in a way no other composer's can.

[King Mark 3,631]

Me too

And Williams had some "listening clunkers" in the 80's too. I can;t say I listened much to The River and Presumed innocent when I bought the albums a ling time ago

[publicist 4,643]

I do think many 90's and 2000's scores like Angela's Ashes, Memoirs of a Geisha, A.I.-Artificial Intelligence and many others are 5 star material in my book.

Maybe not 5 stars but very close.

And Williams had some "listening clunkers" in the 80's too. I can;t say I listened much to The River and Presumed innocent when I bought the albums a ling time ago

THE RIVER is a very good americana score with quite a few different facets and playful ideas throughout its short running time. It is certainly no 'clunker'. PRESUMED INNOCENT has a great theme and mostly boring, formless underscore (and Williams is no Herrmann either). ...it's a courtroom drama, no colorful adventure romp, so why hold it to STAR WARS standards?

[King Mark 3,631]

I'm judging at music not as it works out in the film

[Incanus 5,722]

THE RIVER is a very good americana score with quite a few different facets and playful ideas throughout its short running time. It is certainly no 'clunker'. PRESUMED INNOCENT has a great theme and mostly boring, formless underscore (and Williams is no Herrmann either). ...it's a courtroom drama, no colorful adventure romp, so why hold it to STAR WARS standards?

Presumed Innocent as a listening experience is certainly quite monothematic but that doesn't take away the fact that it is a very effective film score and very much in line with JWs attempt to break free from his "fanfares for adventure films" reputation at the turn of the 90's. Williams' play on the obsession in the music and constant repetition is subtle yet highly effective although you have to take into account that the 40 minutes of music that is sprinkled throughout a 2 hour film becomes naturally rather repetetive when condensed into an album.

[publicist 4,643]

Yes, but it is functional, not particularly good as music - there isn't much happening that rises it above the level of bland underscore. That's why i pointed to Herrmann, who could build marvelous tension and still form a cohesive whole making sense musically. That was, i feel, never Williams' strong suit, who is more of a big brush painter who needs a big canvas to shine - at least after 1977.

@KM: THE RIVER has so many themes and set pieces, this argument holds no water. It's just that you don't like its style, not that it doesn't work as listening experience away from the movie.

[MSM 126]

I don't think JW has gotten better or worse since the so called "golden age." He's just gotten different.

Just the movies get worse.

[Datameister 2,047]

HPSS is a true Williams 5 star score.

While I'm listening to it, I would certainly agree with you. But if I step back, I don't think I can honestly put it overall on quite as high a pedestal as some of Williams' earlier work, even though there are some parts that are clearly just as great.

And I think the Prequels are not quite 5 but 4-4 1/2

Agreed, although they, too, have parts that reach classic levels of unimpeachable greatness.

[Faleel 5,373]

Agreed, although they, too, have parts that reach classic levels of unimpeachable greatness.

TPM.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

And I think the Prequels are not quite 5 but 4-4 1/2

Agreed, although they, too, have parts that reach classic levels of unimpeachable greatness.

Please, don't go all KM on us.

[SF1_freeze 131]

Williams hasn't been at the very top of his game since the early or mid 80s. Some of the qualities that make his best work so enduringly wonderful have been in slow decline in his later scores. There won't be another "5 star classic score" from him, and that's okay. Every artist undergoes creative changes over his or her lifetime, and the best work is usually followed by stuff that's still great but not as good.

HPSS is a true Williams 5 star score.

And I think the Prequels are not quite 5 but 4-4 1/2

Just read my former post in this thread! PoA, TPM and War Horse are 5 stars scores that rival almost anything JW has ever written. They are that good!

After that you still have HP1, HP2, AotC, RotS or AI and Lost World which i would consider 4,5 stars. Just the quantity of his 5 star scores decreased after 1993.

This simply is not true as I have read general soundtrack fans (not Williams-fans perse) praise Tintin for its fresh sound, even more than Williams devotees.

Roald, TINTIN is Williams in pure HOME ALONE 2/INDIANA JONES III/HARRY POTTER etc. tradition - and certainly at Spielberg's request. It's not any worse for that, but those idiotic claims that Williams, who is a traditionalist anyway and not an innovator, has been in kinky innovation mode for TINTIN is just plain bullocks. So is this score entertaining? Certainly. Is it original? Certainly far from it.

Sry publicist but what you say makes not much sense. JW already has done almost everything there is. To repeat himself in some other and creative way can of course still be considered original. Original doesn't have to be somewhat completely new. It can also mean to present something "old" in a different exciting way!

Just because he has done a Jazz score in the 60's doesnt mean that PoA's "Knight Bus", Tintin's "The Adventures if Tintin" or cues from Catch me if you Can are less original. It would be stupid to classify art like that. A composer can easily write two or three scores in the same genre, while still being very original in a similar style!

[Not Mr. Big 4,644]

The music is being played here http://movies.yahoo.com/lincoln-live/

[Jay 37,404]

Cool, who can capture this with their sound card?

[Faleel 5,373]

Some of it reminds me of TPM Anakin Is Free... but of course presidential.

[Not Mr. Big 4,644]

It's good I guess. Sounds like it'll be a solid 3 out of 5 score.

[Jay 37,404]

I have no goddamn clue how to record system audio with Sound Forge but this sound really nice. Love the choir

[Faleel 5,373]

its hard to tell with the crappy cutting......

Heard some ROTS in there...

and a solo which reminded me of TTT... (wierd huh!)

[Jay 37,404]

I heard some LOTR-like horns myself

I think they are just looping either 1 or 2 OST tracks, not playing the whole thing

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Definitely heard Amistad-ish music before they started talking.

[King Mark 3,631]

where's the music in the link

I only get a Q and A with a shit player that does not let me see how long the video lasts or let me advance where I want

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The music played beforehand. You missed it. It's a live feed.