Demodex 557 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, dougie said: She's Luke's daughter! NO! Obi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 15 hours ago, Chen G. said: Oh, I don't necessarily mean that it'll be deriviative of The Force Awakens, but you'll probably see recurring iconography (e.g. a desert planet, the characters' appearance), more callbacks to that particular film, etcetra. I think it's only natural for JJ to harken back to The Force Awakens more so than The Last Jedi. TFA was his film. IX may very well be similar, but for the finale in the saga it shouldn't try and shake up the typical film mould (which in the position of TLJ was more appropriate). They're ending the trilogy like they started, but it'll still be quite different. On a side note, anyone else feel weird to be getting nostalgia from a movie that came out in 2015? That's a great photo in my opinion. _deleted_ 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: I think it's only natural for JJ to harken back to The Force Awakens more so than The Last Jedi. And ROTJ harkens back to ANH, so its part of the SW Ring Theory! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: for the finale in the saga it shouldn't try and shake up the typical film mould (which in the position of TLJ was more appropriate). They're ending the trilogy like they started, but it'll still be quite different. I disagree. If ever the was a film with which the franchise can be unpacked, its the final one rather than the middle one. I think it would've been (and possibly still can be) a good note to end on. In "The Last Jedi", Johnson took an interesting idea of ending of the Jedi order, but because they still had IX in the mag, he had to end on reaffirming the role of the Jedi - essentially a cop-out. If the same idea was instead explored in IX, the film could have ended with the Jedi order actually ceasing to exist, which would have been so much more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Well, I hate to use the term "course correct", because I didn't hate The Last Jedi. I very much liked it. But I do think IX needs to get back to the good old Star Wars and not try and be so different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: But I do think IX needs to get back to the good old Star Wars and not try and be so different So, its not good to wander outside ones comfort zone? Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: I do think IX needs to get back to the good old Star Wars and not try and be so different. What than are you expecting out of IX? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: In "The Last Jedi", Johnson took an interesting idea of ending of the Jedi order, but because they still had IX in the mag, he had to end on reaffirming the role of the Jedi. If the same idea was instead explored in IX, the film could have actually ended with the Jedi order ceasing to exist, which would have been so much more interesting. If The Last Jedi was the last film, I assure it would've looked very different. It's only a natural for a trilogy to be this way. We've seen it before with Star Wars itself, Indiana Jones, Batman, etc. Par exemple, STAR WARS and RETURN OF THE JEDI go hand in hand. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is the differing film. RAIDERS and LAST CRUSADE go hand in hand. TEMPLE OF DOOM is the differing film. Anything to the contrary would be an inappropriate end to such a vast saga. Especially in the wake of The Last Jedi, they probably wouldn't try and serve up anything too similar in that sense. 2 minutes ago, Stefancos said: So, its not good to wander outside ones comfort zone? They've done that. And IX should certainly push the boundaries, break out of the comfort zone by all means. But be careful when doing it. The resolution, especially, needs to be carefully executed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 8 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: STAR WARS and RETURN OF THE JEDI go hand in hand. THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK is the differing film. RAIDERS and LAST CRUSADE go hand in hand. TEMPLE OF DOOM is the differing film. Yeah, that's essentially what I've said. Although - like I pointed out - Indiana Jones is not really comparable in this regard. Star Wars is a saga, Indiana Jones is an anthology. The Last Crusade doesn't resolve plot threads from either Raiders of the Lost Ark or Temple of Doom. Its episodic. All they have in common are recurring characters, a certain aesthetic and iconography. I don't think that approach necessarily makes a good concluding film. Return of the Jedi isn't an awfully satisfying conclusion, for instance. 8 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: an inappropriate end to such a vast saga Vast? I mean, you can look at IX expecting a satisfying conclusion for all nine (or six - whatever floats your boat) entries, but I think you'll be dissappointed. Abrams was a replacement director, and he's just now finished principal photography. He just doesn't have the time, and trying to shape the film to tie back all previous entries will be a gross overreaching on his part. Honestly, I'd be surprised if we get a satisfying conclusion to this trilogy. Its not an easy thing to many when the three films are so far removed from one another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Return of the Jedi isn't an awfully satisfying conclusion, for instance. It really isn't a very good film Chen G. and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 It’s a fine film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Its...okay. Which is not a word you want said anywhere near a film meant to conclude three (six, in hindsight) films. Come to think of it, it faced a problem similar to that faced by IX : It had to bring a conclusion to two wildly different films. Empire Strikes Back is every bit as different to the original Star Wars as The Last Jedi is from The Force Awakens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John 2,032 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 18 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Empire Strikes Back is every bit as different to the original Star Wars as The Last Jedi is from The Force Awakens. I don't think so. Sure, Empire is "darker" than Star Wars and has flashier visuals, but it feels like a natural continuation; there isn't nearly as much of a tonal difference between the two as there is between Force Awakens and Last Jedi. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 The look of the film (camerawork and lighting), the way the actors play their roles, the use of parallel storylines, etcetra - all give it a very different feel, to me. Its only natural: it had a different director, and different writers alltogether. And the twist sure as hell doesn't feel like a natural continuation: there's not a single hint of it in Star Wars. At least, with The Last Jedi, Luke having turned his back on the struggle was explicit in The Force Awakens. The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,514 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 It would be insanely difficult. Concluding films are the hardest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,514 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 4 minutes ago, Fabulin said: IX that concludes all 3 trilogies and is actually on the OT level in terms of general quality I think it would be too much to demand this! I don't think thats realistic. DarthDementous and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 45 minutes ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: Well, I hate to use the term "course correct", because I didn't hate The Last Jedi. I very much liked it. But I do think IX needs to get back to the good old Star Wars and not try and be so different. TLJ wasn't different, just trash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 A flawed, but rather daring film, that maybe telegraphs its politics a tad too much. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 What politics? John 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 11 minutes ago, Stefancos said: A flawed, but rather daring film It is and isn't. I think introducing the notion of eradicating the Jedi order only to end up not doing that is a cop-out on the part of Rian Johnson. In that particular sense - its not a daring film at all. If he landed on the opposite conclusion, it would've been so much more interesting, I think. 18 minutes ago, Fabulin said: Even bad movies can be tied in with something clever onscreen and good dialogues. Its so much more than just roping-in references to earlier films. To be a good conclusion, its need to be a seemingly-natural one. It needs to feel like it reaches the end of a traejectory directly set-up by the earlier films. It needs to give a sense that the end was in the beginning (of the series) all along. Its virtually impossible now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 I wonder if Disney forced him to tone the iconiclastic down a bit. It makes sense though. Luke and Kylo are products of the old ways, the Jedi and the Sith. They both reject it utterly in TLJ. But Rey is the "nobody", who doesn't even belong in the story. We see her actually listening and responding to both Luke and Kylo. Forming her own opinions and following her own path. If Ep 9 is an honest follow up on TLJ, then Rey should never become a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 But, of course, Rian Johnson ends up reaffirming the role of the Jedi: LUKE SKYWALKER And I will not be The Last Jedi. CUT TO: CLOSE ON: REY. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the textbook definition of a cop-out. Better not to have pursued this to begin with. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,514 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,550 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 6 minutes ago, Stefancos said: I wonder if Disney forced him to tone the iconiclastic down a bit. It makes sense though. Luke and Kylo are products of the old ways, the Jedi and the Sith. They both reject it utterly in TLJ. But Rey is the "nobody", who doesn't even belong in the story. We see her actually listening and responding to both Luke and Kylo. Forming her own opinions and following her own path. If Ep 9 is an honest follow up on TLJ, then Rey should never become a Jedi. Steef, don't tell anyone, but...(whispering) sshhhh, it's only a movie. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2001: ASO is only a movie too, Richard. A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 19 minutes ago, Chen G. said: But, of course, Rian Johnson ends up reaffirming the role of the Jedi: LUKE SKYWALKER And I will not be The Last Jedi. CUT TO: CLOSE ON: REY. And that, ladies and gentlemen, is the textbook definition of a cop-out. Better not to have pursued this to begin with. Ugh the worst part about that bit was the church music Williams plugged in. I get irritated when he throws that junk at moments of supposed deep mystical significance. The Illustrious Jerry, Bayesian, crumbs and 3 others 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 1 minute ago, dougie said: Ugh the worst part about that bit was the church music Williams plugged in. I get irritated when he throws that junk at moments of supposed deep mystical significance. That's the best part! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 //shudder I expect he'll go nuts with choral churchy stuff in Ep9. Pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,514 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Just now, Fabulin said: with epic music Star Wars in a nutshell Yet the original trilogy had none of that. Williams has been using choral elements like a crutch since TPM - it's too easy and everyone else falls for it. Falstaft and Chen G. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Fabulin said: with epic music Star Wars in a nutshell A large choir was quite a late introduction into the Star Wars sound, though. Both Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi only feature small women and men choirs (respectivelly), with a relativelly small part in the overall score. When Williams tried tapping back into the original Star Wars sound with The Force Awakens, one of the first things he did was pulling back on the choirs. Didn't he decline writing an opera on the grounds of "not being a particularly vocal composer" or something along those lines? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: I don't think that approach necessarily makes a good concluding film. Return of the Jedi isn't an awfully satisfying conclusion, for instance. What better way to conclude than a grand Ewok barbecue party? Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 He used to apply vocal elements with reservation and good judgement back in the olden days. But unfortunately he's let rip with them for the last 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,950 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Hey, I ain't complaining: I'm a sucker for choral music. But it does sound a bit too removed from the sound of the first three scores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,514 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 Sure, but he relies in it too much. I thought it was in Harry Potter way too much as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,080 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 5 minutes ago, dougie said: Sure, but he relies in it too much. I thought it was in Harry Potter way too much as well. It was even more orchestra! 1 hour ago, Chen G. said: Both Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi only feature small women and men choirs I don't see why his use of small women should be a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,550 Posted February 16, 2019 Share Posted February 16, 2019 2 hours ago, Chen G. said: Both Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi only feature small women and men choirs... Yeah, about 5'3". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,318 Posted February 17, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted February 17, 2019 How is the use of choir in like three cues of an entire score being over reliant? It's little more than a menacing texture for Snoke in both sequels, then accentuates about two cues at the climax of TLJ (for probably the two most dramatic character moments in the film -- Finn's Sacrifice and Rey's Strength). It's only logical for Williams to enhance the emotional strength of his music with choir as the trilogy continues, in the same way he layers his thematic development with increasingly dense orchestration as a narrative crescendos. Choir is just another instrument in his toolbox. It makes complete sense for IX to be heavier on choir than the first two films in the trilogy, narratively and dramatically. Cerebral Cortex, Remco, The Illustrious Jerry and 2 others 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Maybe I just can't stand it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,318 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Fair enough! Fate of the Galaxy would be a cool title for IX. As would Duel of the Fates, but we know the latter will never happen because Williams already used it. Still think Balance of the Force is the most likely title. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,514 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Star Wars: Lifting Rocks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_deleted_ 203 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 19 hours ago, The Illustrious Jerry said: I think it's only natural for JJ to harken back to The Force Awakens more so than The Last Jedi. TFA was his film. IX may very well be similar, but for the finale in the saga it shouldn't try and shake up the typical film mould (which in the position of TLJ was more appropriate). They're ending the trilogy like they started, but it'll still be quite different. On a side note, anyone else feel weird to be getting nostalgia from a movie that came out in 2015? That's a great photo in my opinion. TFA was the first Star Wars film I saw in a theatre, so the big-screen experience is what I remember the most. I expect IX to be a fun, light-weight ride with great music from the Maestro. 🙃 The Illustrious Jerry 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarFox 28 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 The maestro has spoken! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Star Wars: Episode IX - Return Of The Sith! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,484 Posted February 17, 2019 Share Posted February 17, 2019 Star Wars: Episode IX - Return of the Ewoks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted February 18, 2019 Share Posted February 18, 2019 J.J. probably wants it to be Episode IX - Return to Form. I'd like it to be Episode IX - Return to Sender. In the end, it'll really be Episode IX - Return of the Fans Who Didn't Hate Episode VIII. Or they could just have another vague three word title like the last two -- A New Order or something like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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