WilliamHorne97 16 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I would like more memorable themes and motifs. In my opinion there was really only a couple themes/motifs that are memorable from TFA. Rey's theme,Kylo's theme and the motif in 'Follow me'. We really need some more stand out moments, especially in the action department. Where are the brilliant action pieces like' The asteroid field'... That's what I would like to see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I guess I'm the minority when I thought there is a lot of memorable material in TFA. Not only Rey's, Kylo's and Finn's/Action theme/motif, but Jedi Steps, March of the Resistance, Scherzo for X-wings, Poe's theme... there's a lot of good stuff in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red 75 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I expect more of Poe's theme because I expect he will be in the movie more than he was in VII. It seems to me that the score, like the film, is in many ways a setup for this new trilogy. So a character like Dameron has his own adventurous theme despite the character not actually having a lot of screentime. Same with Finn and to an extent Kylo Ren; I'd expect the motifs for those characters to get a lot more development in subsequent scores. I don't know if Williams was intentionally doing this, but Kylo's motif being as brief as it is recalls the fact that Vader didn't have a fully-fledged theme until the second installment of the OT. Could be that he was emulating himself there and is waiting to pull out a full overture for Kylo and/or The First Order in VIII. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 17 hours ago, steb74 said: Even now I still find little musical ideas/connections in the original SW that also fit dramatically, to foreshadow or further the story and would love to know if some of them were conscious decisions or just the result of unconsciously breaking up core musical material and insightfully applying it as a story telling device. Too many of these things work so well to serve the drama for them to be coincidences but for a composer to think about all of those things individually and consciously would probably ruin the natural flow of the music. I think with highly developed insight, great dramatic instincts and an enormous musical vocabulary a great composer can't help but write music that has very deep connections as a whole, whether they're meant to be discovered or not. Very well said. Williams is always pretty quick at dismissing any kind of uber-plan in architectural terms even when it comes to the Star Wars series, to the point of calling the various connections as results of "happy coincidences". I think this means first and foremost his attitude as a film composer, i.e. facing the film and its needs as a single entity. Of course he always addresses the connections with the previous films through quotes and references of older thematic material, but I believe he prefers to face any new film with a slate as clean as possible. The undeniable fact there are harmonic/intervalic/orchestrational relationships between various thematic/motivic subjects is the way Williams keeps himself entertained on one side, but also reveals possibly his desire to create something that makes sense in a purely musical sense, since it's the same environment. In this sense, I'm sure he will follow the same pattern for Episode 8. Incanus 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I'm guessing it's probably already been discussed, but is anyone else thinking and hoping the Jedi Steps melody is an exclusive first play of what is to be Luke and Rey's jedi training theme? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 25 minutes ago, TownerFan said: Very well said. Williams is always pretty quick at dismissing any kind of uber-plan in architectural terms even when it comes to the Star Wars series, to the point of calling the various connections as results of "happy coincidences". I think this means first and foremost his attitude as a film composer, i.e. facing the film and its needs as a single entity. Of course he always addresses the connections with the previous films through quotes and references of older thematic material, but I believe he prefers to face any new film with a slate as clean as possible. The undeniable fact there are harmonic/intervalic/orchestrational relationships between various thematic/motivic subjects is the way Williams keeps himself entertained on one side, but also reveals possibly his desire to create something that makes sense in a purely musical sense, since it's the same environment. In this sense, I'm sure he will follow the same pattern for Episode 8. Oh absolutely man, apart from the musical devices that you mentioned which is a crucial factor in maintaining a kind of universal smell, the score for each episode has its own distinctive flavour and personality. 14 minutes ago, Quintus said: I'm guessing it's probably already been discussed, but is anyone else thinking and hoping the Jedi Steps melody is an exclusive first play of what is to be Luke and Rey's jedi training theme? I'm certainly looking forward to finding out! I thought it might even be the seeds of a Skywalker theme but that may depend on Rey's origin. The best bet may be a Jedi theme, I kind of hope so as it has the potential to work in so many contexts, it sounds beautiful played by the flutes, it sounds haunting and almost chilling when the horns take over. I could easily see it evolving into a big Jedi March theme and to underscore events leading up to such a grand usage, like the training you mentioned for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 I'm hoping for Julie Andrews to be cast in Episode 8 so her and Williams can collaborate on a show tune. Poe, a pilot, a Resistance Pilot Rey, a drop of Jakku sun Me, a name I call myself Far, a long long time ago. Solo, a hero that is dead Ahh, a sound to follow Solo Ren, a Vader-loving threat That will bring us back to Poe. Scarpia 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scarpia 132 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Too bad Julie Andrews is not able to sing anymore... I'd love to listen to her performing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 2 hours ago, Quintus said: I'm guessing it's probably already been discussed, but is anyone else thinking and hoping the Jedi Steps melody is an exclusive first play of what is to be Luke and Rey's jedi training theme? It has its own concert piece, so I certainly hope it will get more development in Ep8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 39 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: It has its own concert piece, so I certainly hope it will get more development in Ep8. Like Leia's Theme had after Star Wars! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Concert piece? It does?? I'm assuming this must be on the awards promo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted January 3, 2016 Author Share Posted January 3, 2016 Maybe some twisted version of Rey's Theme, since now I subscribe to the theory that she's Anakin Skywalker back from the dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Marian is talking about the sheet music. The upcoming Hal Leonard release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLUMENKOHL 1,068 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Michael Giacchino will do a commendable job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Eeewww. Don't even go there man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 If it's anything like TFA score, it will be nothing groundbreaking. We'll feel we've heard this stuff before. But, it will be entertaining and in this day and age, I'll welcome even unremarkable derivative Williams scores because the old guy can still do it for me. TFA's score was like the ultimate regifted Christmas present. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 When it comes to predicting what themes JW will revisit, and to what extent. I doubt Williams himself even know that until he actually sits down and watched a rough cut of the film. Williams doesnt read scripts, doesnt visit the set and likes to get his impressions from the movie itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balahkay 627 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 1 hour ago, Stefancos said: When it comes to predicting what themes JW will revisit, and to what extent. I doubt Williams himself even know that until he actually sits down and watched a rough cut of the film. Williams doesnt read scripts, doesnt visit the set and likes to get his impressions from the movie itself. And Williams apparently got impressions of roughly 30 minutes of film at a time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 3 hours ago, Stefancos said: Like Leia's Theme had after Star Wars! Well, her theme already got a full workout in the first film. Jedi Steps doesn't. 3 hours ago, Stefancos said: Marian is talking about the sheet music. The upcoming Hal Leonard release. Indeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 4 hours ago, Quintus said: Concert piece? It does?? I'm assuming this must be on the awards promo. Williams wrote one after the recording sessions have finished to be included in the packet of sheet music for sale by Hal Leonard. So we haven't heard it yet. I think the sheet music releases in March? It's very likely that Silva Screen will include a recording of it on some upcoming compilation CD before too long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Damn I wish he'd recorded it during the sessions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 3, 2016 Share Posted January 3, 2016 Much like Han Solo and the Princess, or the extension of The Throne Room Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Yup, exactly. Williams' inspiration doesn't seem to end when his duties to the film itself do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 The 'Han Solo and the Princess' concert version? That's never been confirmed as a Williams arrangement. The only info I've ever read about it though was from the Gerhardt Empire liner notes and while Williams does mention Han Solo and the Princess I've never been convinced that the common version we know is his arrangement. I find it too hard to believe that Williams could combine those two themes so awkwardly especially since one was almost born from the other ...but maybe that's why he's almost disowned it as a concert piece? I'd love to know one way or the other though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 What? Ofcourse it's a Williams arrangement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I agree with Ste about the combination though, it's musically awkward and I never liked it (and always skip that arrangement). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Really? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 9 minutes ago, Quintus said: I agree with Ste about the combination though, it's musically awkward and I never liked it (and always skip that arrangement). Yeah I'm listening to it now just to see if I feel any differently and to be honest it doesn't bother as much as it used to but the combination of themes still feels awkward, almost like a diva duet. The first minute or so if basically the film version albeit with a slightly thinned out orchestration but it really feels like someone else adapting the themes. If it is Williams he must be very disappointed with it 2 hours ago, Stefancos said: Of course it's a Williams arrangement. What makes you think it is a Williams arrangement Stefan? Well maybe you've never had any reason to think otherwise. I know it gets a lot of love around here but unfortunately that arrangement really doesn't work for me, maybe it bothers me so much because the theme is one of my favourites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 4 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Really? It needed some bass movement behind it, like Marion's Theme. A bit of momentum, like a ballet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Why would you assume that it was written by anyone else but Williams. And I'm saying written, not arranged. Because while the first part is based on the OST track, the rest is all original writing, not an arrangement of existing music. They are plenty of Williams written concert tracks where the transitions aren't very well done. The concert version of Adventures on Earth for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 14 hours ago, Jay said: Williams wrote one after the recording sessions have finished to be included in the packet of sheet music for sale by Hal Leonard. So we haven't heard it yet. I think the sheet music releases in March? It's very likely that Silva Screen will include a recording of it on some upcoming compilation CD before too long The City of Prague Philharmonic can be hit or miss, although they are usually OK with concert versions of themes. In lieu of a Williams conducted performance on a CD, it would great if Williams performed The Jedi Steps concert version during the (yet unannounced) Boston Pops, and for that concert to be subsequently streamed online with no audience interruption during that cue. Actually, he might even conduct it during that Philly concert in a few months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 23 minutes ago, Stefancos said: And I'm saying written, not arranged. Because while the first part is based on the OST track, the rest is all original writing, not an arrangement of existing music. Well even the rest of it (the Solo and the Princess material at least) just sounds like it was pieced together from a handful of its presentations in Empire, some of the End Credits if I remember correctly ...although I should check again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I am hopeful I will hear The Jedi Steps performed live in Boston this spring! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 907 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 1 hour ago, steb74 said: What makes you think it is a Williams arrangement Stefan? My CD is in Australia and I'm not, so I can't check, but don't the liner notes specifically say Williams made that arrangement?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Are you being held in North Korea against your will? Are you able to contact your embassy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete 907 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'm in the other less famous Korea^. Thanks for asking. I'm fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Pete is actually correct When I heard a test pressing, I was thrilled. The Suite, which I had specially written and adapted for concert performance (The Imperial March, Yoda's Theme, The Asteroid Field, Han Solo and The Princess and Finale), had been skilfully augmented with other music from the film to form a unified whole. That pretty much confirms that's Steb's assumptions are unfounded as far as I'm concerned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I already mentioned that in my first post about it but it isn't conclusive enough for me to be assured it is that particular arrangement. Unless like I said, it's the reason why Williams has dropped it. SW in concert uses the film version (more or less) of Asteroid Field which contains some of Solo and the Princess. I think that's the only time that the theme has been used officially, by that I mean with Williams' blessing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Has there ever been any instance of Williams conducting Finale from TESB in Concert? To my knowledge he only ever performs The Throne Room and End Itile Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 I'd love to see that conducted by him live in person. One of my favorite cue of all time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 Yeah like the above quote posted, it says that it was part of the suite. Finale is the original cue title for the Rebel Fleet but the Finale in the (written) published score is only the last phrase of Solo and the Princess and then it goes straight into the credits. So I've no idea if Williams' original suite contained the full cue or if it was him that heavily edited it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 10 minutes ago, Jay said: I'd love to see that conducted by him live in person. One of my favorite cue of all time! One of the best end credit cues of all time! I love that it has variations of the 3 new themes from the movie that are very different from any rendition of them in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steb74 53 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 It certainly is one of the best ever and the transition from the Imperial March into Solo and the Princess is just phenomenal ....in fact all of the transitions are perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damien F 1,742 Posted January 4, 2016 Share Posted January 4, 2016 2 hours ago, Jay said: I am hopeful I will hear The Jedi Steps performed live in Boston this spring! I'm surprised the Boston Pops schedule is still not published. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Scarpia 132 Posted January 5, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted January 5, 2016 12 hours ago, steb74 said: It certainly is one of the best ever and the transition from the Imperial March into Solo and the Princess is just phenomenal ....in fact all of the transitions are perfect! I wholeheartedly agree. This is a truly inspired End Credits Suite, one I very often revisit. It flows in a way you really don't realise how one theme paves the way to the next. He speeds up Yoda's Theme to match the sixteenth notes motor of the End Titles music. A little rallentando to strike the Imperial March (with that delightful middle section), including a little coda to go seamlessly to Han Solo and the Princess. I've always been impressed how Williams could write so much quality music for this film in such a tight schedule. crumbs, Cerebral Cortex and steb74 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 TESB had a tight scoring schedule? This is the first I've heard of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Same here. ROTJ might have gotten a bit tight because JW roped a few people in to help him out. But never heard TESB was on a tight schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leeallen01 2,136 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 44 minutes ago, Stefancos said: Same here. ROTJ might have gotten a bit tight because JW roped a few people in to help him out. But never heard TESB was on a tight schedule. Yeah, including Thomas Newman, who then sat for decades as the apprentice, waiting for the opportune moment to betray his master and become Spielberg's Composer. He struck Williams down, but Williams became more powerful than Newman could possibly imagine, and he trained Giacchino to finally destroy Newman. As a reward, Williams gave Giacchino Jurassic World, and he returned to Spielberg to score the BFG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TownerFan 4,983 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 1 hour ago, Jay said: TESB had a tight scoring schedule? This is the first I've heard of that. It wasn't a super-tight schedule but he wrote the whole score in a little more than four weeks. here's a quote from an old interview (taken from the "Making of the Empire Strikes Back" book published in 1980) Quote LOS ANGELES Saturday, November 17 (1979) Alan Arnold: You have a tremendous amount of music to compose for "The Empire Strikes Back" in a matter of weeks. John Williams: Yes. "Empire" will require 107 minutes of underscore, although some of this will involve quotes from my original score for "Star Wars". We plan to reprise the Star Wars March, for example. But I will still have about 102 minutes of new music to write between now and mid-January. You could say it's the equvalent of several Lisztian tone poems. AA: Or a couple of symphonies. JW: Yes, except that it's not really a fair comparison, because this kind of incidental music is quicker to write than an organic piece like a symphony. We know that the score ended up being recorded in late December, so JW wrote the whole score between mid-November and end of December, i.e. 4 to 5 weeks. Scarpia and Cerebral Cortex 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 5, 2016 Share Posted January 5, 2016 Impressive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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