Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted July 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2020 I've been meaning to get another thread going for analyzing and appreciating a track from The Rise of Skywalker. So what does everyone think of "Approaching the Throne" (7m20), a true knock-out cue in my opinion. I can get the ball rolling by offering a section-by-section breakdown. It's a stupendously rich piece of music in terms of thematic references and developments -- at least 10 independent motivic components, and I'm probably missing a few important details. Apologies too if this is restating stuff that's already been identified and discussed. 0:00-0:20: Deep, slow procession in D-minor, with a Halting Rhythmic Figure, scurrying strings and growing dissonance. Weirdly, the FYC and film version begins in C-minor, and modulates halfway through to D. Unclear if this is the sign of an alternate version of the cue or another instance of inexplicable pitch-shifting -- maybe because "The Battle of the Resistance" it succeeds ended in C. Also, that Halting Rhythmic Figure appears in an unreleased bit of score of the overall sequence (1:40:46) when Rey first takes the Exegol elevator down: there it's in F-minor -- again, not clear if it's pitch-shifted or a genuinely new variant? 0:20-0:45: A big swell onto a D-minor chord for the Palpatine Throne, gathering dissonance after its initial "reveal." 0:45-0:58: More highly dissonant, atonal material; dialed-out in the film in favor of Sith chanting. 0:58-1:15: Statement of an Insidious Minor Figure motif in parallel minor thirds (C-B-D-Eb-A) that comes up here and a few other occasions on Exegol. Related to the Psalm of the Sith leitmotif. Followed by a squirmy cousin of of the Sith Wayfinder motif (1:06) and a very brief Psalm of the Sith tag in muted brass (Eb-Gb-F). 1:15-1:30: Harmonically "darkened" version of Rey's Theme under Palpatine's dialogue that gives way to a couple of suspenseful chords. 1:30-2:00: Two rotations through the Psalm of the Sith-derived Canon, first on A-minor, then, because of the imitation at the minor-third, F#-minor. Quite clearly inspired by "Palpatine's Instructions" from ROTS to my ears (and, by extension, Vaughan Williams's 6th symphony). Appropriate, since he's once again literally instructing someone, now Rey on how she needs to kill him. Previewed elsewhere in the score in some interesting ways. 2:00-2:15: Big (and last?) statement of the Sith Wayfinder Motif, overlain with the Insidious Minor Figure. I love this moment. 2:15-2:30: Cut to space-battle, with music that recalls Psalm of the Sith (E-G-F#-A#) in melodic outline but even more-so Tension in rhythm and affect. Cool contrapuntal interplay between higher-strings on this idea and lower instruments continuing with it around 2:23. Naturally, all of this fantastic musical detail is virtually inaudible in the film. 2:32-2:43: Completely new Battle Theme in A-minor, especially notable b/c its close to being "grammatical" in @Ludwig's terms, having a pretty balanced beginning/middle/end structure. If anyone can point to precedents or links between this melody and other parts of the score, I would love to know! (And I bet @BrotherSound too) 2:43-2:46: Little return to the Tension idea from before, transitions to... 2:47-2:54: A key-change to C-min and second, incomplete statement of new Battle Theme from the winds. 2:54-3:11: A great pair of chromatic sequences, first down (Fm - DbM7/F - E - CM7/E - Ebm - CbM7/Eb) then back up from Em to Fm. Some familiar Williamsy wind+xyl stabs in there too. 3:11-3:19: A quite glorious trumpet statement of the TROS Victory Theme in D-major. Replaced in the film by a splice of the 2:32 Battle Theme for...reasons? 3:20-3:25: Two phrases worth of very ANH-flavored pounding dissonant chords, like Bbm/A. 3:25-3:40: Big C-minor statement of the March of the Resistance, one of the best in the series, and possibly its last. A lot of orchestrational details in strings and winds that are hard to pick out on the recording. 3:40-3:54: Some very tense but non-motivic interstitial material, serving to build up to... 3:55-End: "The time has come!" for a huge choral outburst on B-minor chord, intoning some as-yet unidentified text. The closest we get to Duel of the Fates in the Sequel Trilogy. The Illustrious Jerry, Cerebral Cortex, BrotherSound and 20 others 18 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Holko 9,526 Posted July 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 25, 2020 I came out of the exam in december, saw the FYC was up, clicked on a random track, and it was this. Immediately fell in love and, get this, I had hopes for the movie What a great track! Falstaft, Tiburon, Smaug The Iron and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 1 hour ago, Falstaft said: I've been meaning to get another thread going for analyzing and appreciating a track from The Rise of Skywalker. So what does everyone think of "Approaching the Throne" (7m20), a true knock-out cue in my opinion. 0:58-1:15: Statement of an Insidious Minor Figure motif in parallel minor thirds (C-B-D-Eb-A) that comes up here and a few other occasions on Exegol. Related to the Psalm of the Sith leitmotif. Followed by a squirmy cousin of of the Sith Wayfinder motif (1:06) and a very brief Psalm of the Sith tag in muted brass (Eb-Gb-F). 3:40-3:54: Some very tense but non-motivic interstitial material, serving to build up to... The "Insidious Minor Figure" sounds to me like something from the dark, lurking moments of the prequels... a literal "phantom menace" motif. Is the latter material really non-motivic? It sounds like a cousin of the "Heroic Descending Tetrachords"... like a desperate attempt to get space heroism going. Overall the piece, like many others in TROS, delivers a thematic conga as foreshadowed in Galaxy's Edge. Now that I think of it, it's an interesting coincidence that GE sounded at times like Indiana Jones, considering that the TROS film would end up having quite a bit of Indiana Jones DNA too. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Illustrious Jerry 3,356 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 Wow, I hadn't listened to this cue for a while and I must say that reading your notes along side it is most enlightening, many thanks @Falstaft. I think it's a solid piece overall, but for me it really picks up to a level of pure gold starting with that big Sith Wayfinder statement at 2:00 right on through to the choral outburst at the end. Also agree with you on those two great Battle theme statements- the transition from the strings to the woodwinds is sooo good. Great catch there with those ANH-worthy chords, and agree once again that that is probably one of the best March of the Resistance statements, especially how it kind of drags that duh-da-duh part to build tension. Fantastic! Falstaft and Smaug The Iron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,639 Posted July 25, 2020 Share Posted July 25, 2020 One of the (if not the) best action cues in the sequel trilogy! Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 8 hours ago, Falstaft said: So what does everyone think of "Approaching the Throne" (7m20), a true knock-out cue in my opinion. Absolutely agreed it’s a knockout! A great combination of chilling, tense music for the confrontation and exciting action music (which is most likely the cue 7M30 More Action). And thank you @Falstaft for continuing this great series of posts. If you haven’t seen that B-roll footage since the release of the movie, you may want to watch it again. Williams is shown conducting ‘Approaching the Throne’ starting from the Wayfinder motif, but continues into the very ending with the chorus (which would be recorded separately). I’m guessing this may even be an insert (‘The Crowd Joins In’ or ‘Wayfinder Insert’ perhaps?). Starting at 7:02 if the timestamp’s not working: So, it would appear that bit—whatever it actually is—was moved from its intended location between ‘Approaching the Throne’ and ‘More Action’ to instead become the ending of ‘More Action’. One little tidbit: thanks to @crumbs, I was able to confirm my suspicion that that last long note of the album version of ‘Approaching the Throne’, but not present in the film or FYC version, is not an alternate, but actually the last note of ‘Falcon Flight’ pitch-shifted! Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted July 26, 2020 Author Share Posted July 26, 2020 13 hours ago, BrotherSound said: If you haven’t seen that B-roll footage since the release of the movie, you may want to watch it again. Williams is shown conducting ‘Approaching the Throne’ starting from the Wayfinder motif, but continues into the very ending with the chorus (which would be recorded separately). I’m guessing this may even be an insert (‘The Crowd Joins In’ or ‘Wayfinder Insert’ perhaps?). ... One little tidbit: thanks to @crumbs, I was able to confirm my suspicion that that last long note of the album version of ‘Approaching the Throne’, but not present in the film or FYC version, is not an alternate, but actually the last note of ‘Falcon Flight’ pitch-shifted! I hadn't remembered that B-Roll footage, fascinating! What is with all the pitch-shifting in this score??? 20 hours ago, Fabulin said: The "Insidious Minor Figure" sounds to me like something from the dark, lurking moments of the prequels... a literal "phantom menace" motif. Yes! Especially Revenge of the Sith, Williams really does seem to be channeling the ambiance of that score at times, intentionally or not. 20 hours ago, Fabulin said: Is the latter material really non-motivic? It sounds like a cousin of the "Heroic Descending Tetrachords"... like a desperate attempt to get space heroism going. You know, you may be right! -- especially at 3:48, it seems like fragments of that figure are trying to assemble into the more familiar motif, which we do hear clearly of course when Lando arrives. Yet another thematic reference packed into this cue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 22 hours ago, Falstaft said: 2:32-2:43: Completely new Battle Theme in A-minor, especially notable b/c its close to being "grammatical" in @Ludwig's terms, having a pretty balanced beginning/middle/end structure. If anyone can point to precedents or links between this melody and other parts of the score, I would love to know! (And I bet @BrotherSound too) I think this theme has the most to do with March of the Resistance. And I think it makes sense not just musically but contextually since this theme is about the Resistance and we actually hear the March a little later in this same cue. The second time the Battle Theme has a big melodic drop (its 3rd bar), the notes are the same as those in the 2nd half of the March of the Resistance's A section, as I've shown below. For those who don't read music, I mean that these moments are the same: The interval of that drop, which is very distinctive, being a tritone, also fills out the rest of the theme, as I've shown with the brackets under the notes. Its right at its outset with a note in between, in the 3rd bar I just mentioned, then again in the 4th bar. So in the video above, I mean at 2:32-2:34, 2:35-2:37, and 2:37-2:39. The whole theme has the same basic outline as March of the Resistance as well, starting from the tonic note (here A) and ending on the leading tone nearly an octave higher (G#), gradually rising up in between the two. Again, for those who don't read music, I'd compare the start and ends note of one theme, then compare them for the other. They're not in the same key, but the notes in their scales are the same. One might also say that what I've written as the 2nd line of the Battle Theme uses the same first three notes of March of the Resistance, though in a different rhythm. It's a little more abstract than the other similarities, but since the whole theme seems to be a kind of riff on the March, it kind of makes sense. Like March of the Resistance was recomposed with more jagged edges! Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted July 26, 2020 Share Posted July 26, 2020 My favorite track from the score! And that post gave me an idea: I made an edit using the FYC to fill the little sections that were microedited from the OST track to present the cue as (supposedly) recorded: Fabulin and Falstaft 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Fabulin 3,513 Posted July 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 26, 2020 Excellent work, Chewy. It led me to one more observation: the ending of "Approaching the Throne" (the harp moment) feigns leading to heroic music, and instead leads to the eruption of a stadium of Palpatine's fans. If one splices this harp with a suspense horn and a similar harp figure leading to the Dunkirk fleet arriving, it becomes one very satisfying track! Chewy, Taikomochi, Falstaft and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaft 2,132 Posted July 26, 2020 Author Share Posted July 26, 2020 5 hours ago, Ludwig said: I think this theme has the most to do with March of the Resistance. And I think it makes sense not just musically but contextually since this theme is about the Resistance and we actually hear the March a little later in this same cue. The second time the Battle Theme has a big melodic drop (its 3rd bar), the notes are the same as those in the 2nd half of the March of the Resistance's A section, as I've shown below. This seems exactly right, @Ludwig. And thank you for presenting the similarity in both music-theory heavy and light terms! I'll add that the approach to that tritone, the E-F-B gesture, is itself very "Star Wars-y," not a specific motif, but perhaps more a melodic/rhythmic sensibility. It's the basis for the Tatooine descent in ANH and TPM, among other things. BrotherSound and Ludwig 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverTrumpet 638 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 That 2:54-3:11 section really gets me every time. It just sounds very ominous leading up to something super super evil. In this case, the choir at the end. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrotherSound 2,242 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 23 hours ago, Fabulin said: It led me to one more observation: the ending of "Approaching the Throne" (the harp moment) feigns leading to heroic music, and instead leads to the eruption of a stadium of Palpatine's fans. If one splices this harp with a suspense horn and a similar harp figure leading to the Dunkirk fleet arriving, it becomes one very satisfying track! Yet, as the B-roll footage shows, it apparently wasn’t actually written or recorded this way! The choral outburst would have immediately followed the Wayfinder motif before continuing with the faster ‘More Action’ section, and whatever the original ending of that cue was. This is one of the few instances of editing in this score I don’t mind and may actually be an improvement. Fabulin 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted July 27, 2020 Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, BrotherSound said: Yet, as the B-roll footage shows, it apparently wasn’t actually written or recorded this way! The choral outburst would have immediately followed the Wayfinder motif before continuing with the faster ‘More Action’ section, and whatever the original ending of that cue was. This is one of the few instances of editing in this score I don’t mind and may actually be an improvement. Wow. Another piece of news that improves the already great track. I quickly glued the choral moment where you said, and... to me a sneaking section (with the "you are coming closer and closer" repeated wayfinder motif) that culminates in a stadium reveal makes the most sense... Not only from the musical, but also from the story perspective... Rey doesn't know exactly what awaits her, and then discovers that she has been baited into an arena. One thing is clear... The more we know, the more coherent this score becomes. The complete score will be a revelatory experience. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Falstaft 2,132 Posted July 27, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted July 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Fabulin said: One thing is clear... The more we know, the more coherent this score becomes. The complete score will be a revelatory experience. It's as though there's an entire new Williams Star Wars score we haven't heard properly yet. #releasetheJWcut! BrotherSound, Will and Fabulin 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Ludwig 1,120 Posted July 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2020 On 7/26/2020 at 5:30 PM, Falstaft said: I'll add that the approach to that tritone, the E-F-B gesture, is itself very "Star Wars-y," not a specific motif, but perhaps more a melodic/rhythmic sensibility. It's the basis for the Tatooine descent in ANH and TPM, among other things. Yes, and this semitone-up-plus-tritone-down figure is a part of the ST sound in particular, and not just as a combination of intervals but as the same degrees of the scale (5-6-2 in minor). So it seems a deliberate part of Williams' ST style. It's here as the Starkiller destroys the Hosnian system in TFA: And at Han's death with the corresponding music in Torn Apart: A little earlier in the same cue as well: It's the melodic tag at the end of The Rise of Skywalker: It's in that brass chorale at Ben Solo's death: And it was also part of that proto Rey's Theme we discussed here in an early version of TFA's 1M5 "The Scavenger". These are in addition to the appearances in March of the Resistance and this new Battle Theme. So it really seems to be woven consistently into the new trilogy's melodic fabric. BrotherSound, mrbellamy, Tom and 4 others 4 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 Brilliant post @Ludwig, never noticed that! And just an FYI, the timecode in the first video doesn't appear to work; it just plays from 0:00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ludwig 1,120 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 9 hours ago, crumbs said: And just an FYI, the timecode in the first video doesn't appear to work; it just plays from 0:00. That's because it's hidden in the main title too if you take the first note, the 2nd note of the B section, and the last note of the theme all together. Just kidding. It was just a mistake - I've fixed it now. Thanks, @crumbs! eitam and Falstaft 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,364 Posted July 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2020 It's a cool track but as others have said, the second half (starting with the Wayfinder motif part) is the real gem, the first part is just OKish buildup. And yes when MM eventually gets to tackle these three scores, I hope he showcases the earliest version - JW's original vision - of all the cues as the main program, and saves all the revisions and inserts for the bonus track section. That method worked great for ALIEN and I think it would suit these scores well too. crumbs, Holko and Falstaft 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 In that case we might even need a whole book's worth of liner notes to know what's happening in the cues for JJ's hours of deleted scenes and subplots and early developments he's not releasing. looks at Doug's LotR book on the shelf and starts grinning Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chewy 2,391 Posted July 28, 2020 Share Posted July 28, 2020 An official book about a John Williams score, this is a dream. Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Remco 685 Posted July 28, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted July 28, 2020 The piece is absolutely brilliant. And I get mad when I read on YouTube that people find it just ‘boring’ music until the choral outburst. Also, got to love how we got to hear Zimmer’s Batman theme at 0:30! Bofur01, Falstaft and Tydirium 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,016 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 15 hours ago, Jay said: It's a cool track but as others have said, the second half (starting with the Wayfinder motif part) is the real gem, the first part is just OKish buildup. And yes when MM eventually gets to tackle these three scores, I hope he showcases the earliest version - JW's original vision - of all the cues as the main program, and saves all the revisions and inserts for the bonus track section. That method worked great for ALIEN and I think it would suit these scores well too. It would but do you think Disney will let Matessino do that? That would mean confirming that film was in trouble and was heavily retooled in post. They don't like to reveal too much about their process. And since they blocked the meticulous TFA making of book for similar reasons (at least according to the author) it seems unlikely to me they would do it here. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remco 685 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 2 hours ago, crocodile said: It would but do you think Disney will let Matessino do that? That would mean confirming that film was in trouble and was heavily retooled in post. They don't like to reveal too much about their process. And since they blocked the meticulous TFA making of book for similar reasons (at least according to the author) it seems unlikely to me they would do it here. Karol Well, the OST of Rise of Skywalker already features a great deal of music that is not in the film. Since it wasn’t an issue there, I hope it won’t be in the future. I also think it depends on how they look at an expanded release: hopefully as something of great cultural value written by a legendary composer, instead as just merchandise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Unless it's really extrapolated upon in the liner notes, I don't see it being an issue. Disney aren't going to prevent music being released just because it wasn't used in the film, it would defeat the entire point of new score releases. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,513 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted July 29, 2020 Share Posted July 29, 2020 Disney needs that precious additional revenue stream! They don't own everything yet! Falstaft 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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