The ALIEN FRANCHISE Appreciation thread.

[Edmilson 7,473]

I kinda like Alien 3. It's like a Christian parable for nerds! 4 is not great, but at least it's entertaining to watch.

[A24 4,346]

18 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

You've got to like the score though, right?

 

I've never heard the score outside the movie. I remember, when I saw Alien 3 for the first time, that the music impressed me, it sounded like they hired a contemporary classical composer instead of a film composer. However, the last time I watched Alien 3, I thought the music was overbearing. But I'm biased. I have watched Alien 3 once every decade and hated it every time. I hate its tone, its direction. While some may point out it's basically a reiteration of the first movie, for me, it's the antithesis of Ridley Scott's movie. IMO, Scott did everything right. Fincher did everything wrong. For me, Alien 3 is the greatest example for how not to do sci-fi. Then came Prometheus, and lo and behold, it's even worse ... albeit in a different way. 

[rough cut 1,714]

At least we agree on Prometheus! 

 

But there’s a fan cut of the movie, Prometheus Giftbearer, that actually turns it into a good sci-fi movie.

[A24 4,346]

If it's cut from the same material, no rearrangement of the scenes will make a difference. The characters will still be unbelievably bland and uninteresting, their lines will still be embarrassing.

 

 

49 minutes ago, rough cut said:

At least we agree on Prometheus! 

 

That's the one thing we all agree on. It's what binds JWFan together.

[rough cut 1,714]

Giftbearer took out a lot of footage, while reinstating deleted scenes. Whatever was left was re-edited and some of the score was redone as well.

 

It plays like a different film.

[A24 4,346]

 

The story might be improved upon but I don't see how it can solve everything else. A fan might re-edit Whitney Houston's song All At Once as much as he wants, the building blocks, the tone, the emotion and the voice will still be the same, and therefore, I still wouldn't like it. What I'm saying is, you can't polish a turd.

[GerateWohl 4,373]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

That's the one thing we all agree on. It's what binds JWFan together.

Did you miss the discussion with Thor?

[A24 4,346]

Just now, GerateWohl said:

Did you miss the discussion with Thor?

 

No, but Thor is no longer here, so we are more unified than ever.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

Oh, my giddy aunt! No Thor, no Jurassic Shark, no Bruce Marshall, no Steef, no Gruesome Son Of A Bitch. They're dropping like flies.

[A24 4,346]

They all had one thing in common. They all had posters of Alien 3 hanging on their wall. I wonder if that has anything to do with their disappearance. 

[rough cut 1,714]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

 

The story might be improved upon but I don't see how it can solve everything else. A fan might re-edit Whitney Houston's song All At Once as much as he wants, the building blocks, the tone, the emotion and the voice will still be the same, and therefore, I still wouldn't like it. What I'm saying is, you can't polish a turd.

 

And I disagree. In this case, the tone, the emotion and the voice really is different.

 

A movie is the sum of its parts. What makes you think that if you swap out 50 % of the movie, re-cut and re-edit the rest while also putting new score on top - that it would be the same? Sure, it's the same actors, and the same outline... But I don't hear oyu complaining about that. What OI hear you complaining about is exclty the things that this cut has fixed.

 

It seems extremely narrowminded to me, to disregard it by saying "I still wouldn't like it". At least be open to the possibility that it might be different enough to make it good but that you are hesitant to the fact since you haven't seen it for yourself.

 

[A24 4,346]

47 minutes ago, rough cut said:

 

 In this case, the tone, the emotion and the voice really is different. A movie is the sum of its parts.

 

 

What is the use of replacing parts with other parts if those parts come from the same problematic source, namely, the same creative vision? The claim that suddenly it's no longer Ridley Scott's voice sounds nonsensical to me. They might be unused parts but it's the same writer, the same director, the same voice.

 

 

47 minutes ago, rough cut said:

 

It seems extremely narrowminded to me, to disregard it by saying "I still wouldn't like it". At least be open to the possibility that it might be different enough to make it good but that you are hesitant to the fact since you haven't seen it for yourself.

 

 

Sorry if I don't sound all that curious towards this Giftbearer cut. I might have been more interested if I felt there was a good film buried somewhere in Prometheus but I honestly haven't seen the potential. I only like two short moments in the entire movie. Everything else made me want to throw bricks to the screen. You are basically asking me to give Coldplay a chance while no amount of re-editing can make me like their music. 

 

Anyway, can I ask you what you thought about the original movie when you first saw it? 

[GerateWohl 4,373]

16 minutes ago, AC1 said:

Sorry if I don't sound all that curious towards this Giftbearer cut. I might have been more interested if I felt there was a good film buried somewhere in Prometheus but I honestly haven't seen the potential. I only like two short moments in the entire movie.

Probably the cut just consists of these two short scenes.

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

While there are exceptions, most fan edits are best enjoyed by the fans who make them.

[A24 4,346]

25 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

While there are exceptions, most fan edits are best enjoyed by the fans who make them.

 

Footage that ends up on the cutting room floor usually ends up there for a reason. - Every Director

[rough cut 1,714]

I saw Prometheus in the theaters when it came out. I thought it was bad. We all thought it was bad.

 

I remember going for drinks afterwards and we tore the movie apart... besides some obvious irritating moments in the movie - finding the alien snake and treating it like a puppy, poisining the water glass in plain sight, running in a straight line instead of veering of to the side - the movie felt wrong. Not only were these mentioned scenes bad, but the entire movie. The way the engineers fit in to the story. The interaction between the crew, Weyland. The flow of the movie. It was bad. It still is.

 

Giftbearer fixes these things.

 

I found myself - to my surprise, I might add- to engage with Giftbearer when I saw it. I don't know what prompted me to watch it, but whoever put it together was able to piece together pieces that - after seeing the edit - shouldn't have been cut out. Or at least served as better replacements for stuff that shouldn't have been left in. And the movie is now edited so that it makes sense, and flows better. The logic. Inte interaction. The suspension. The flow.

 

How come the original creators left it the way they did if it was obvious that "better" stuff was left on the cutting room floor? I don't know. Maybe it wasn't "obvious"... So what then? Stress? Bad decisions? Difference in taste? Meddling from the studio? Whatver the reason, I don't hold the director's or writer's reasons as holy.

 

Is it a new masterpiece? No.

Is it on par with the original 1979 Alien? No.

Is it better than the theatrical Promethes? Yes (but that's not saying much).

Is it, at least, an entertaining movie instead of being a giant turd? I would say yes. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

 

Footage that ends up on the cutting room floor usually ends up there for a reason. - Every Director

 

That's...true as far as it goes. There's always a reason, it's just not always an artistic one.

 

32 minutes ago, rough cut said:

Giftbearer fixes these things.

 

You have me intrigued enough that I'll check it out.

[Tallguy 3,401]

Wait... @Thorisn't around anymore? Seriously? Does this mean I'm the last person here that likes Ladyhawke?

 

Prometheus had an uphill battle to justify it's reason for existing in the first place. And then it was a terrible movie. Not that Ridley Scott has had a spotless track record to begin with, but I was very grateful that I loved The Martian.

[rough cut 1,714]

10 minutes ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

You have me intrigued enough that I'll check it out.

 

Post your opinion after you watch it.

 

5 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Does this mean I'm the last person here that likes Ladyhawke?

 

Nah, I like it too.

[A24 4,346]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Wait... @Thorisn't around anymore? Seriously? Does this mean I'm the last person here that likes Ladyhawke?

 

I like it. Sure, for many, the score works against the movie but after a while I don't mind the rock drums anymore. 

 

Will people here stone me now?

 

[Andy 4,141]

I thought Prometheus was cool until it connected to the franchise.  If there was a way to sever all of that tissue and make it its own thing, it would be much better.  Visually and tonally it reminded me of old Heavy Metal (Hurlant) mags.  (Sort of the roots of ALIEN)

[A24 4,346]

13 minutes ago, Andy said:

  Visually and tonally it reminded me of old Heavy Metal (Hurlant) mags.  (Sort of the roots of ALIEN)

 

Alien, absolutely, but Prometheus? I felt it was way too clean for Metal Hurlant.

 

Even Scott's storyboards (which he drew himself) for Alien looked like it came straight from Metal Hurlant. He was a huge fan of artists like Moebious. 

 

Metal Hurlant artists also worked on Alien Resurrection.

[Andy 4,141]

Not so much the used universe aspect... more the planetary landscapes and spacesuits and such.  Metal Hurlant emcompasses a variety of styles and artists.  Also the tone is there.  The entire prologue sequence of the engineer ingesting the thingy and then falling into the waterfall felt like comic book panels in its storytelling.

[mstrox 6,651]

Thor’s living his life.  Anyway, just popped in to say that I’ve seen Alien, Aliens, and Prometheus and my ranking would be Prometheus>Aliens>Alien.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

Um, you'll find that only one of those films features Yaphet Kotto, so.... sorry, there's no argument to be had for which one is best.

[rough cut 1,714]

That is the most outrageous thing I’ve ever heard in my life!!!

 

You haven’t seen Alien 3???

[Disco Stu 15,495]

hey look it's kotto giving you a hard stare after you say prometheus is better than alien

 

[Tallguy 3,401]

Hey, he'll get what he's contracted for, same as everybody else. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

Yeah but he gets less than everybody else, that’s the problem.

[Tallguy 3,401]

Right.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

23 hours ago, rough cut said:

I saw Prometheus in the theaters when it came out. I thought it was bad. We all thought it was bad.

 

Logically and in terms of characters, it's a bad movie, but the question is whether the entertainment value of what remains is strong enough for you individually. I've never seen any of the Alien movies prior to Prometheus so for me there's no link (or lack of) to the overall world and I enjoyed that and Covenant very much, and the latter also has gaping plot/character holes.

 

I also love the scores to both and vastly prefer them to what I've heard of the original movies. I like Frizzell's to an extent, but I find that a little heavy in full form.

 

23 hours ago, rough cut said:

 

How come the original creators left it the way they did if it was obvious that "better" stuff was left on the cutting room floor? I don't know. Maybe it wasn't "obvious"... So what then? Stress? Bad decisions? Difference in taste? Meddling from the studio? Whatver the reason, I don't hold the director's or writer's reasons as holy.

 

As a minor content creator I occasionally look back at something I did years ago and find something where I'm not sure why I thought 'that' was a good idea, and that's in a zero pressure environment, not a multi-million $$ pressured environment. It's harsh to look back with the benefit of time and having become familiarised with the structure of a film, and wonder in amazement at why certain things were done - the director didn't have that sort of luxury when they made it.

[A24 4,346]

21 hours ago, Andy said:

Not so much the used universe aspect... more the planetary landscapes and spacesuits and such.  Metal Hurlant emcompasses a variety of styles and artists.  Also the tone is there.  

 

Of course, since Prometheus is a prequel to Alien, a movie which director was heavely inspired by Heavy Metal/Metal Hurlant, one would expect it would still be there in Prometheus but I didn't feel that and I usually pick up on things like that. I guess what I remember from 1970s Hurlant is indeed the used, dirty, retrofitted, almost organic growing/expanding of machinery. Then, in Prometheus, there are the overly clean, colorless characters without a sense of charisma or quirks. 

 

Just look at the 'resurrected' opening scene of Alien Resurrection. That's Metal Hurlant, folks!

[TolkienSS 407]

I only know I watched Prometheus, and I can't remember a single thing about it.

[A24 4,346]

38 minutes ago, TolkienSS said:

I only know I watched Prometheus, and I can't remember a single thing about it.

 

Not even the 'running away from the rolling spaceship' scene? 

[TolkienSS 407]

1 minute ago, AC1 said:

 

Not even the 'running away from the rolling spaceship' scene? 

 

No.

I only remember the score being remarkably mundane by Alien standards.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

Considering how much we disagree on how entertaining RoP is, I'm not surprised.

[Tallguy 3,401]

RoP? 

[Jay 37,374]

11 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

RoP? 

 

https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/27884-the-lord-of-the-rings-the-rings-of-power-2022-tv-series

[TolkienSS 407]

4 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Considering how much we disagree on how entertaining RoP is, I'm not surprised.

 

It's entertaining to a degree. But it can't hold my interest for longer than 10 minutes.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

I tend to like more modern textural/ambient scoring like that. I was delighted that both Prometheus and Covenant had FYCs with the complete score as I can't imagine them being expanded officially.

[A24 4,346]

A young Sigourney Weaver

 

[A24 4,346]

 

 

[Tallguy 3,401]

"That could be a true story!"

 

Always read your contract and the bonus situation before you sign up?

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

12 minutes ago, AC1 said:

 

 

 

It's Barbara Wintergreen! 

It couldn't get more ridiculous, if you had Chapman Baxter, and Alvin Holler.

I love the way that the kids liked it, but the parents weren't too sure.

In the UK, ALIEN was an "X", in 1979, and it continues to be an "18", on home entertainment.

[A24 4,346]

14 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

It's Barbara Wintergreen! 

It couldn't get more ridiculous, if you had Chapman Baxter, and Alvin Holler.

I love the way that the kids liked it, but the parents weren't too sure.

In the UK, ALIEN was an "X", in 1979, and it continues to be an "18", on home entertainment.

 

Kids did say they wouldn't recommend it to other kids. How old were they? 8 years old? In Belgium you had to be 16. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

I dunno. The look on both those kids' faces tells you that they both enjoyed it.

$4 

[Tallguy 3,401]

2 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I dunno. The look on both those kids' faces tells you that they both enjoyed it.

$4 

 

I went to the movies yesterday for $4!

[A24 4,346]

3 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I dunno. The look on both those kids' faces tells you that they both enjoyed it.

$4 

 

That's fucked up. It was a very tense and frightening experience when I saw Alien in 1979. And I was 15!

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

13 minutes ago, AC1 said:

That's fucked up. 

 

That's America.

[Brónach 1,302]

great kids.