Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 Poor sound is tight! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted October 27, 2021 Share Posted October 27, 2021 1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said: Poor sound is tight! Oh really!😳 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 16 hours ago, Brundlefly said: Is the score complete now - meaning there is at least one version of every cue? Probably, the shorter cues are joined in the new 'Playmates' track. But it lacks the film alternate of 'The Unicorns' and 'The Ring', which are more than just cosmetic alterations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 36 minutes ago, publicist said: Probably, the shorter cues are joined in the new 'Playmates' track. But it lacks the film alternate of 'The Unicorns' and 'The Ring', which are more than just cosmetic alterations. Are album versions different from the Silva ones? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, crocodile said: Are album versions different from the Silva ones? The Silva ones ARE the album versions, it seems nothing has survived beyond the stuff in Mike Ross's garage. The alternates you can hear in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,020 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Ah I see. Then there is nothing one can do. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, crocodile said: Ah I see. Then there is nothing one can do. You can weep! blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 10 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Someone will have to do a direct comparison with the poor-sounding boot, which I think had more music but in poor sound. So there is another source then, with more music (although crappier sounding)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,383 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 This score deserves a re-recording. bruce marshall and Tom Guernsey 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 With a proper orchestra. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Bruce is confused today. GerateWohl and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 4 hours ago, GerateWohl said: This score deserves a re-recording. That is not gonna happen, it's too special to be competently re-recorded, I figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 A re-recording would be a catastrophe in the making. The live balancing of the synth probably would cost as much as i biblical Rózsa re-recording. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 41 minutes ago, publicist said: A re-recording would be a catastrophe in the making. The live balancing of the synth probably would cost as much as i biblical Rózsa re-recording. I feel like any re-recording would not follow Goldsmith's practice of recording the synths live and personally I don't think that's a red line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 In a score like 'Legend', where all the whizzing and flirring synth stuff is so integral to the performance, why would anyone want that as a separate element mixed in later? It's just a bad idea and not worth the bother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Personally, I think a skilled engineer working with modern mixing software could handle that without a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,604 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Mike Ross-Trevor is still around, and he was with Jerry at the original recording! I’m sure he could recreate a lot… but how many people would fund such an expensive recording for just a little bit more music from the score? Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2021 4 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: Mike Ross-Trevor is still around, and he was with Jerry at the original recording! I’m sure he could recreate a lot… but how many people would fund such an expensive recording for just a little bit more music from the score? Yavar The film music enthusiast community needs a filthy rich sugar daddy! (or mama) Yavar Moradi, blondheim and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,604 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 6 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: So there is another source then, with more music (although crappier sounding)? If you count a terrible sounding bootleg as a source (Link has a complete boot too but both LLL and Intrada just reissued the same original Varese program because they didn’t have a source for the additional cues in good or even decent — like Lionheart — sound)… need to get the new Music Box edition first before comparing. It’s possible that only some alternates are exclusive to the boot. Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 20 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Personally, I think a skilled engineer working with modern mixing software could handle that without a problem The problem is the live performance. The players interact heavily with the synth parts and part of why even some of John Powell's striped scores sound so lifeless is because one section doesn't interact with the other. Compare it to two actors, in one performance they are in the same room, in another they play alone and are joined later by technical wizardry. Of course it can be done, but why? Be that as it may, no one will re-record it, which in this case is a blessing. Thanks to MRT, what survives is over 70 minutes of music and it sounds absolutely fine. There's nothing of importance missing, either. 1977 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 I agree of course, there are many many many many more scores that would take higher priority for re-recording for me if money was unlimited. blondheim and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said: If you count a terrible sounding bootleg as a source (Link has a complete boot too but both LLL and Intrada just reissued the same original Varese program because they didn’t have a source for the additional cues in good or even decent — like Lionheart — sound)… need to get the new Music Box edition first before comparing. It’s possible that only some alternates are exclusive to the boot. Yavar I'm not implying they should use the boot as the source. I'm saying the boot had to be sourced from somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Like in Rambo II's case, someone had some old cassette lying around, made for god knows what purpose. Nothing like properly archived studio materials. Yavar Moradi and Jurassic Shark 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 17 minutes ago, publicist said: properly archived studio materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Mike Ross-Trevor is still around, and he was with Jerry at the original recording! I’m sure he could recreate a lot… but how many people would fund such an expensive recording for just a little bit more music from the score? How about a re-recording of just the missing elements from Under Fire, Secret of NIMH, Legend and Link? 1 hour ago, publicist said: Be that as it may, no one will re-record it, which in this case is a blessing. Thanks to MRT, what survives is over 70 minutes of music and it sounds absolutely fine. There's nothing of importance missing, either. That's right, at least Legend has good sound quality and is well performed. Two things that Inchon and Lionheart aren't able to exhibit both of. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, publicist said: Compare it to two actors, in one performance they are in the same room, in another they play alone and are joined later by technical wizardry. Of course it can be done, but why? What are you talking about? The acting in the prequel trilogy is fiiine! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 1 hour ago, publicist said: Like in Rambo II's case, someone had some old cassette lying around, made for god knows what purpose. Nothing like properly archived studio materials. Still can't believe they recorded it and then wiped the tapes. Is studio tape that expensive that they need to reuse it wherever possible? 33 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: How about a re-recording of just the missing elements from Under Fire, Secret of NIMH, Legend and Link? That's something I'd love! Include the full Ultimate War from Hook too Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 22 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said: What are you talking about? The acting in the prequel trilogy is fiiine! My first thought was LOTR funnily enough. The scenes they shot where McKellen is in a green screen version of the Bag End set at Gandalf scale and Ian Holm is in the dressed set at Bilbo scale, and they shoot them at the same time. Or did they only do that for the Hobbit? The behind the scenes stuff blends together for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,378 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 That was for The Hobbit. For LOTR they used forced perspective Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,532 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 Yeah that was Hobbit, when he broke down talking remotely to lighting-up printed faces with voices in an all green room. On LotR they used bluescreen and shot separate passes on the twk sets or partial sets with for example a guy taking the staff and hat away offscreen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 5 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: My first thought was LOTR funnily enough. The scenes they shot where McKellen is in a green screen version of the Bag End set at Gandalf scale and Ian Holm is in the dressed set at Bilbo scale, and they shoot them at the same time. Haven't seen it but it sounds fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Frank Vincent 234 Posted October 28, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted October 28, 2021 Just arrived. Raiders of the SoundtrArk, blondheim, Yavar Moradi and 3 others 3 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,287 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 3 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Mike Ross-Trevor is still around, and he was with Jerry at the original recording! I’m sure he could recreate a lot… but how many people would fund such an expensive recording for just a little bit more music from the score? Yavar I guess one benefit of a re-recording would be extracting the synths from a couple of cues for an orchestra only version which, I have to confess, for Legend, I wouldn't be opposed to (sorry to those who love the synths). Far point on who would fund it, but Varese re-recorded quite a few scores that had perfectly decent (for the most part) sounding original albums for limited extra music. I'm thinking the John Barry albums they did which were lovely, but hardly critical upgrades. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 49 minutes ago, FrankV said: Just arrived. Lucky you... How do the CDs look like if it's not too much to ask? Boreli 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,604 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: I guess one benefit of a re-recording would be extracting the synths from a couple of cues for an orchestra only version which, I have to confess, for Legend, I wouldn't be opposed to (sorry to those who love the synths). Far point on who would fund it, but Varese re-recorded quite a few scores that had perfectly decent (for the most part) sounding original albums for limited extra music. I'm thinking the John Barry albums they did which were lovely, but hardly critical upgrades. Yeah but that was a quarter century ago and since then costs have risen greatly while sales have comparatively tanked. Legend is a much more mammoth score than those Barrys Varese did too… Yavar Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,094 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 6 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said: Legend is a much more mammoth score than those Barrys Varese did too… Just do everything with synths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,604 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: I'm not implying they should use the boot as the source. I'm saying the boot had to be sourced from somewhere. Yes but just because that source the boot was taken from existed at the time the boot tape copy was made doesn’t mean that it still exists today, over a quarter century later. I mean, Doug Fake’s reference copy of Lionheart was obviously copied from a better sounding source that existed in the 80s… but today, only his copy survived as a source for those two extra cues from the sessions… (thankfully though not perfect sound they were a lot better sounding than the Legend or Link boots.) 4 hours ago, Brundlefly said: How about a re-recording of just the missing elements from Under Fire, Secret of NIMH, Legend and Link? Hey I’m onboard! I think that sounds like a great 80s Goldsmith album. It would be under an hour though. Plenty of room to jump back to the 60s and add the missing cues from In Harm’s Way and The Sand Pebbles too. And hell let’s throw a new recording of the Rambo: First Blood Part II orchestral end credits in there too, while we’re dreaming! (Obviously Ransom and The Chairman simply require complete re-recordings…the original albums themselves don’t sound great, apart from missing a lot of good cues.) Yavar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,556 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 2 hours ago, May the Force be with You said: Lucky you... How do the CDs look like if it's not too much to ask? Never mind what the CDs look like?! How does it sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 10 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Never mind what the CDs look like?! How does it sound? True but the only thing that can be shared here is the visual, waiting for mine to come to get an opinion on the sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,556 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 That's why we have the wonderful JWfaners offer their opinions on what the CDs sound like Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,211 Posted October 28, 2021 Share Posted October 28, 2021 4 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: I guess one benefit of a re-recording would be extracting the synths from a couple of cues for an orchestra only version which, I have to confess, for Legend, I wouldn't be opposed to (sorry to those who love the synths). I'd love that for Lionheart, but I really can't imagine it for Legend. Like them or hate them, the synths are such an integral part of the score that I don't think it could work at all without them. Personally, they're the reason why it's a score I don't play often. There's much to admire, but I have to be in the right mood for it. Brundlefly and Yavar Moradi 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 13 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said: Hey I’m onboard! I think that sounds like a great 80s Goldsmith album. It would be under an hour though. Plenty of room to jump back to the 60s and add the missing cues from In Harm’s Way and The Sand Pebbles too. And hell let’s throw a new recording of the Rambo: First Blood Part II orchestral end credits in there too, while we’re dreaming! If I were rich, that would be one of the first things I'd spend money on. Just make the Goldsmith catalogue complete and available for everyone. Yavar Moradi and blondheim 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Vincent 234 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 11 hours ago, May the Force be with You said: Lucky you... How do the CDs look like if it's not too much to ask? Disc 1 looks blue and disc 2 red. Nothing excited. 8 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said: Never mind what the CDs look like?! How does it sound? Everything sounds great, except for the alternates on disc 2. They are in lesser quality with some distortion. Naïve Old Fart and Raiders of the SoundtrArk 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 12 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: I'd love that for Lionheart, but I really can't imagine it for Legend. Like them or hate them, the synths are such an integral part of the score that I don't think it could work at all without them. Personally, they're the reason why it's a score I don't play often. There's much to admire, but I have to be in the right mood for it. It's really interesting how far opinions on Goldsmith's use of synths diverge. Especially Lionheart, Legend, Under Fire, Link and many more scores from the 80s set off discussion now and then. Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 22 minutes ago, Brundlefly said: It's really interesting how far opinions on Goldsmith's use of synths diverge. Especially Lionheart, Legend, Under Fire, Link and many more scores from the 80s set off discussion now and then. In Legend's case, it's a no-brainer. Up to that point it was the most creative wedding of classical music and an (then new) electronic ensemble. It's basically what you would have expected a modern *classical* composer would have come up with. So much for the historical significance. That many of us aesthetically find at least some of the choices irritating is another discussion. I, for one, was turned off by the goblin music. It was meant to be abrasive but i still think it's not a particularly successful thing. There's also the limitations that existed for synthesizer banks and blending them with the orchestra etc., considering all that i think it's a monumental achievement if you take into account how Goldsmith still wrote a film core tailored to the movie and took this additional challenge. GerateWohl and Marian Schedenig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 Legend, unlike Lionheart, is a full success in my opinion regarding the blend of synths and orchestra. Nowhere else that challenge has been more impressive handled with. There is a reason that this is my second favourite Goldsmith score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,556 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 2 hours ago, Brundlefly said: It's really interesting how far opinions on Goldsmith's use of synths diverge. Especially Lionheart, Legend, Under Fire, Link and many more scores from the 80s set off discussion now and then. You left out his most extensive use of synthesisers, in a score: RUNAWAY; a score that is all-time top-10 Jerry for me - no, I'm not joking! Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,383 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 1 hour ago, publicist said: It's basically what you would have expected a modern *classical* composer would have come up with. That is also what I thought, when I first listened to the score. But later I thought, I would have prefered it sounding like the synth and the orchestra are actually in the same room. But in a way it sounded like the recording was done in the room with the synths and the orchestra played in the next room, and the choir came somewhere from the church next door. Regarding the recent edition of the Always score does a much better integration of the synthesizer and orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted October 29, 2021 Share Posted October 29, 2021 I actually think that his use of synths is one of the most fascinating and rewarding elements of Goldsmith's career. Naïve Old Fart and Tallguy 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amer 2,119 Posted October 29, 2021 Author Share Posted October 29, 2021 I think its canon that Goldsmith preferred to use electronics as live mixes with the orchestra. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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