Laura Karpman - The Marvels (2023)

[Courtney Sees Ghosts 269]

Yesterday at the BBC Proms, Laura Karpman's main theme for The Marvels was performed and man, it sounds pretty dope so far. I'm also a sucker for a cello in a superhero theme. I dug Pinar Toprak's theme for the first movie, but this theme really suits my film score tastes a little bit more. 

Laura Karpman is a severely underrated talent so I'm happy she's finally being given a big budget blockbuster. I loved her score for Ms. Marvel and her score for What If was really the saving grace of that series for me. Cannot wait to hear the whole score, I'm already watched this video an obscene amount of times.

 

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

Same. Toprak's score was great, but this sounds really incredible!

 

The cello, the brass and I love those vocal sections.

 

Karpman is indeed a highly underrated and versatile composer.

I'm glad that with the Marvel scores she's come back into the spotlight after her Emmy win for Taken almost 20 years ago.

 

I actually realluly hope her Ms. Marvel score wins the Emmy during the next awards

[Miz 139]

I enjoyed the performance too. Has there ever been film score at the Last Night of The Proms?

[Omen II 1,235]

23 minutes ago, Miz said:

I enjoyed the performance too. Has there ever been film score at the Last Night of The Proms?

There have been plenty of songs from musicals at the last night, especially by Richard Rodgers.  A suite from The Sea Hawk by Erich Wolfgang Korngold was played in 2005 and Henry V by William Walton in 2002.  More recently the romance from The Gadfly by Shostakovich was played at the last night.

 

John Williams has also featured in the last night with his Olympic Fanfare and Theme in 2012, for obvious reasons.

[Mr. Who 919]

The suite is quite fun, and the choir chanting reminds me of WW84, a score I love. Somehow the second part is less interesting to me and feels a bit typical marvel but it will be fun to hear how the theme is used in the score. Judging by the trailers the score should be quite adventurous.

 

3 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Same. Toprak's score was great, but this sounds really incredible!

 

The cello, the brass and I love those vocal sections.

 

Karpman is indeed a highly underrated and versatile composer.

I'm glad that with the Marvel scores she's come back into the spotlight after her Emmy win for Taken almost 20 years ago.

 

I actually realluly hope her Ms. Marvel score wins the Emmy during the next awards

The Liam Neeson movie Taken?

[Faleel 5,365]

1 minute ago, Mr. Who said:

 

 

The Liam Neeson movie Taken?

No, a 2002 miniseries about aliens.

[Gabriel Bezerra 303]

Turns out, the theme was already in Ms Marvel.

 

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

Ah, ok. So that's why Toprak's theme was not quoted there

[Edmilson 7,475]

That's pretty good:

 

 

[Yavar Moradi 2,604]

It’s good in a fairly generic way. I hope the full score has a bit more of a unique personality, and maintains some of the youthful and ethnic flavor of her scoring for Ms. Marvel.

 

Yavar

[MaxMovieMan 273]

That cello sounds great!

[Mephariel 451]

The composition is good. But I can't remember any notes from the theme after listening to it. It just goes in one ear and out the other.

[Faleel 5,365]

Sounds familiar...

 

(Also pointed out on Facebook by James Southall)

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

Full album releasing tomorrow!

 

1 hour and 15 minutes. 28 tracks

 

Samples available

 

https://www.qobuz.com/nz-en/album/the-marvels-laura-karpman/tp27jv0w1zwrb

[Richard Penna 3,696]

I quite like the main theme - not the catchiest thing I've ever heard but it does the job.

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

Interview with Karpman about the score.

 

I've put the video in a spoiler block because there is a MAJOR spoiler for the film in the title and in one the questions.

 

You can also not look at the title of the video and play it until 6:00, that's when the question starts

 

So you're warned now!!

 

Spoiler

 

 

[thestat 348]

The Karpman score - yeah, theme whatever, but the orchestrations and arrangements are fantastic. The interplay between percussion and brass is wonderful. Great to hear that type of dynamism in a contemporary score that transcends the banal - last time I was enthused about a Marvel theme was with Djawadi's Eternals but that was more about the melodic content (as the presentation was way too RCP). Hope this is as good as that.

[Knight of Ren 789]

Haven't listened to the score yet, anf I'm not really interested in the movie itself but that's one not-so subtle way of spoiling the surprises of the film for people who are interested in it...

 

Spoiler

I wonder if that Ottman material they mention is on the album, as it's one of my favorite superhero themes from that era, and I feel it tends to be a bit forgotten in between other Marvel scores from the time.

 

[Faleel 5,365]

I like this one

[JTN 2,048]

Is this the kind of theme superhero movies have nowadays? I feel really sorry for audiences. 
We’ve come to an age where it’s become a norm to say things like “it’s not the catchiest theme, but it does the job.” How did we come to being OK with mediocrity? Not every score and theme can be great, but a major studio film should have a theme that IS great and catchy imho. 
Imagine if people in 1978 had said “The Superman Theme isn’t catchy, but it does the job.” Or audiences in 1989 had said “The Batman Theme is all right, nothing special, but it does its job.” Then we probably

wouldn’t remember these films decades later, still listening to their scores humming their themes. 
 

Are we going to remember The Marvels decades from now, humming its main theme?
 

And I can’t help but have the feeling that we’re getting mediocre forgettable themes and scores because of tokenism in Hollywood. 
For the umpth time: Let only merit decide who gets to score a film. Let the best Composer get the job because they write the best theme and score, not because of their gender or race or other mandatory quotas. Because ultimately filmmakers and audiences want the best scores, regardless of who does them. 

[HunterTech 994]

Why do you only mention that talking point when it's a woman and not an RCP lackey?

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

I don't agree on those statements, I think The Marvels theme is great and very catchy. I've heard it a few times now and it's stuck in my head ever since.

It has shades of Dilvestri's Avengers theme, Toprak's Captain Marvel theme and Karpman's own Ms. Marvel theme. All 3 of which are fantastic imo.

 

Of course it's not as good as William's Superman theme, but if you're expecting everything to be, you will always be disappointed.

 

I also don't agree in the fact that Karpman was just hired because she is a woman. She has been in the industry for decades, has won awards and written scores for big projects. Her experience on 2 Marvel series makes her perfect to score this film and she has done a wonderful job.

[HunterTech 994]

She got a damn review on Filmtracks long before her MCU gigs for goodness sake, which is something Pinar Toprak (apparently a former RCP employee btw) hadn't been able to manage. But that probably doesn't matter much to PT anyway, because she still ended up working under William Ross and Danny Elfman, which ideally would be a great source of learning and experience (assuming she experienced nothing weird with the latter).

[JTN 2,048]

21 minutes ago, JNHFan2000 said:

I also don't agree in the fact that Karpman was just hired because she is a woman.

Me neither, since I never said that. But I have a guess she was for that matter and if so, that’s wrong.

 

@HunterTechDo you think JW, JNH, Elfman, Silvestri, etc. would have written a catchier, more memorable theme for this film? And do you think they would have because they are men? Or because they are better Composers? 

[HunterTech 994]

Depends on at what point in their career you decide to pull them from, since I doubt they came out displaying their best material from their earliest projects. Especially with how much JW doesn't want his early work out there, and Elfman arguably only getting out Batman 89 because he got heavy help (Shirley Walker being one of the big guns there).

 

Plus, haven't we agreed it's the studios that demand constant mediocrity at this point? I may like the new main theme Elfman came up with for Doctor Strange 2, but good luck trying to convince me if it actually would stand out from much of the MCU themes if you didn't tell me it was by him.

 

Ultimately, you always have to consider the many factors that are at play here, since I think a lot of these newer composers are being stunted of their growth as a result of the machine increasingly demanding the most disposable media possible, which can't be a great environment for fostering creativity.

[Richard Penna 3,696]

Most of the thematic material I've heard from the latest Marvels has been uninspiring - can't remember a thing from a quick skim. The studios generally aren't asking for big, bold, hummable themes.

 

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Are we going to remember The Marvels decades from now, humming its main theme

 

We're not going to remember 90% of Marvel's thematic output a decade from now. This score is nothing new. And as you can see, someone else really likes this theme. It's astonishing how much negative, critical mileage you get out of one person's initial opinion.

[JTN 2,048]

47 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

It's astonishing how much negative, critical mileage you get out of one person's initial opinion.

On the contrary. I’m stating my own personal opinion regardless of other people’s opinion. But you make it out like only opinions that are positive are allowed, and if someone says anything negative, it’s unacceptable and is immediately called out.

I personally don’t like this theme, and I’m happy for and respect anyone who does. 

47 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

The studios generally aren't asking for big, bold, hummable themes.

How do you know that? I don’t think that’s true. More like the composers that are hired can’t write a memorable theme. Do you think composing a memorable theme is that easy? Ask JW, he could tell you how much he laboured to come up with the now classic theme for Indiana Jones or Star Wars. Writing a melodic instantly memorable theme is one of, if not THE hardest thing in music, and very few composers are capable of doing it. That’s called TALENT, and it’s a very rare skill.

52 minutes ago, HunterTech said:

Depends on at what point in their career you decide to pull them from

You just said that Karpman has been in the industry for decades, so according to you she’s a seasoned veteran, not at the beginning of her career. 
So would, in your opinion, JW, JNH etc. write a better theme than what Karpman wrote, and would it be better because they are men or because they simply are better composers?

 

Let me ask another question:

Are John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, Bernard Herrmann, Miklós Rózsa, James Horner, etc. better composers than Pinar Toprak, Laura Karpman, Hildur Guðnadóttir, Natalie Holt etc. because they are men or because they are more talented composers?

 

[Richard Penna 3,696]

 

Quote

How do you know that? I don’t think that’s true.

 

I don't know anything for certain obviously - I simply choose to believe that if a score isn't as good by our standards, it's probably because the studio/director has asked for something less prominent. You choose to believe that some composers are less talented, and that's absolutely a factor too. I merely accept that fact more readily because not all composers can be as good as Hollywood's finest, and yet lots of films need scores.

[Jaaaackified 81]

13 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

Interview with Karpman about the score.

 

I've put the video in a spoiler block because there is a MAJOR spoiler for the film in the title and in one the questions.

 

You can also not look at the title of the video and play it until 6:00, that's when the question starts

 

So you're warned now!!

 

  Hide contents

 

 

 

Will this be another instance of spoiler tracks being added some time after the movie hit cinema? like the treatment of Doctor Strange 2 

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

Let's hope so

[LB Makes Stuff 240]

Sorry to interrupt whatever’s going down here, just wanna drop my opinion:

that first half is pretty nice for sure, and I’d like more of that! The rest is fine, don’t have much to say there. On the topic of how memorable this theme is, it sounds like it fits the part of the film: something that’s simple, decent, and works for most of its runtime. (No disrespect of course.)

[Richard Penna 3,696]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

But you make it out like only opinions that are positive are allowed, and if someone says anything negative, it’s unacceptable and is immediately called out.

 

Except I don't. I'll state again: I'm surprised that of the relatively positive opinions on the theme, I state a 'so so' one and you use that to assert that the state of scoring is bad, despite it being just one view.

[JTN 2,048]

34 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

I'm surprised

And I’m surprised that you like that theme. 
 

Btw. why are you taking it so personally (again)? I wasn’t responding to your comment, I stated my own personal opinion. Why can’t you accept it like I did yours and we move on, shall we?

[Tallguy 3,402]

Captain Marvel was the last Marvel movie (outside of the two Avengers films) that we've watched more than once. It's in The Rotation as it were.

 

I get that there are actually a couple of composers with "dibs" on these characters but I thought we were past the MCU skipping the original composer for the sequel. (I didn't see who scored Ant-Man because I'm falling asleep typing this sentence.)

 

Everyone in the family is a little excited when they see the trailers just because they say "Hey! It's Captain Marvel! We like her!" But then everyone promptly forgets about it.

 

I'm waiting to see if anyone makes plans to go see the film without me reminding them. (I'm saving the date for Godzilla Minus One, and if people want to come with me they can.)

[mstrox 6,651]

Karpman’s theme seems completely fine, and I like what she’s done in TV for Marvel overall.  We’ll see if she does anything interesting with it in the score proper.

 

 I still think that Marvel overall has not had really any excellent heroic themes, which is insane given the number of superhero movies.  I did like a few of Silvestri’s minor themes from Avenger 3/4, but overall it’s been a pretty dull 15 years of themes!
 

I also love her wacky black and white glasses in the interview above.

[Tallguy 3,402]

IMHO good themes in no particular order:

 

Captain America

Thor

Thor 2

Doctor Strange

Spider-Man (MCU)

Ant-Man

Avengers

Iron Man 3

Captain Marvel
 

Guardians of the Galaxy is OK I guess.

[Gabriel Bezerra 303]

I would sneak Ms Marvel and Moon Knight in that list as I love the melody and the colours.

 

And there's also a lot of great "colours" in The Marvel's score (track 11 at the moment) just a lack of returning themes so far... weird considering Karpman's previous work for Marvel, could only imagine that it was a request, and that is just sad.

 

Edit: AH, Horner's danger motif on "On Fire" , 10/10 never doubt it.

[Faleel 5,365]

3 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

Edit: AH, Horner's danger motif on "On Fire" , 10/10 never doubt it.

There are a couple Hornerisms in this IMHO.

[HunterTech 994]

8 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Why do you only mention that talking point when it's a woman and not an RCP lackey?

 

@JTW I noticed you never answered this particular question. I won't acknowledge any more of yours until you address this.

[Not Mr. Big 4,643]

There have been 2, MAYBE 3 good MCU scores total.  Let's not act like it's some prestigious line of great scores being tainted by "tokenism".  It's McDonalds 

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

It's a matter of opinion

[Yavar Moradi 2,604]

Nobody is claiming Karpman is as great a composer as John Williams, Jerry Goldsmith, or Shirley Walker for that matter. But tokenism? NO. She's a solid composer and a longtime veteran of the industry who's certainly got more experience and awards under her belt than say Joel P. West did when he got the gig for Shang-Chi (and did a good job with it).

 

I find her music for Ms. Marvel much more interesting and memorable than her music for The Marvels (which itself isn't bad by any means), and I suspect that's because she had more creative freedom on the former than the latter. There's always more scrutiny and producer control on big budget feature films. It's the smaller projects like TV miniseries where composers tend to be allowed to spread their wings and experiment more these days, in Hollywood.

 

Karpman's Ms. Marvel isn't as great as Williams's Superman or Elfman's Batman (or Walker's Superman OR Batman) but it absolutely DOES have better and more interesting music than the majority of MCU theatrical films have had... and I include Elfman's Doctor Strange and the Multiverse of Madness in that. Patrick Doyle is a GREAT composer with a distinctive style... and most of his Thor score for the MCU was generic RPC temp-tracked mediocrity IMO. With a few notable exceptions such as Giacchino's original Dr. Strange or Beck's Ant-Man, the MCU doesn't tend to encourage uniqueness or memorability from its composers, which have been almost entirely white guys. So yeah, when one or two female film composers get an MCU gig, suddenly "tokenism" is blamed? Utter nonsense.

 

You know, Natalie Holt's work on LOKI has been utterly fantastic, unique, and memorable, specific to that show and not confusable with any other MCU scoring. But if you only knew her work from Obi-Wan I think it would be a big surprise. Composers do the best they can within the parameters and directions they are given.

 

Yavar

[Tallguy 3,402]

31 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

But if you only knew her work from Obi-Wan I think it would be a big surprise.

 

Last week I was watching the credits and literally said "WHO composed this?"

[iamleyeti 114]

I knew Laura Karpman was talented, but I could not if she had had a chance and missed it or wasn't simply that good.

 

I was wrong. THE MARVELS is clearly on the top of your superhero soundtrack for me. I know the bar is low, especially the last few years, but it's filled with themes and musical ideas that are simply missing from… the rest. It blends sci-fi, vocals, (slight) atonal material, percussives, nice action pieces. The orchestrations are rich and lush, and while the album is a bit long (here we are, in 2023, complaining about album length every three posts), it keeps being fresh and surprising.

 

I have a very select list of good Marvelmovie soundtracks and this one just joined it right away.

 

Armstrong's INCREDIBLE HULK, Goransson's BLACK PANTHER, West's SHANG-CHI, Djawadi's ETERNALS, and this one. And that's it for me

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

Saw the film yesterday and Karpman's score is really great imo.

 

She does some interesting stuff with vocals and sound design in spaces. Her main theme encapsulates the fun and quick feel the film has and she uses it in a lot of cool ways.

 

There is plenty of action music which is really well orchestrated and performend and at the end of the film she gets to do some emotional music which I thought eas really beautiful!

 

The first fight scene of the film feature the song "Ratata" by Missy Elliot, but they added a bunch orchestral arrangements on top of it, which I thought was really cool!

 

Look, it's a bummer that her Ms. Marvel theme & Toprak's Captain Marvel theme aren't used here. But it makes sense that they don't. This film is not about them as individuals, but really about the 3 women as a team. And for that the theme and score work tremendously.

[Stark 316]

To be honest, “we didn’t use themes because XYZ” has never been a good excuse. I’m just surprised because Karpman has demonstrated herself to be great at incorporating existing themes… she even had Toprak’s theme in Ms Marvel!

[iamleyeti 114]

I'm starting to believe that the person responsible for the music at Marvel simply hates catchy tunes.

[Fargo 297]

Haven't seen the movie yet, but am listening through for the first time. Pretty enjoyable so far, but the highlight for me is the track 'Voices of Aladna'. Just really unexpected 

[JNHFan2000 2,969]

That sequence of the film was really funny.

I thought it worked tremendously

[Tallguy 3,402]

4 hours ago, iamleyeti said:

I'm starting to believe that the person responsible for the music at Marvel simply hates catchy tunes.

 

BERMAN!