John Williams could have been named John Nagle

[Thor 9,334]

I think this is a fascinating little piece of trivia.

 

If John Williams' dad hadn't taken the last name of his STEPdad Henry J. Williams, and instead kept the last name of his biological father Tom Nagle, the world's greatest film composer of all time would be named......John Nagle!

 

(that Tom/Thomas Nagle fellow -- sometimes spelled Neagle and Nagel -- is an interesting character, btw, but that's a story for another time).

 

[Jurassic Shark 16,060]

C'mon, tell us now.

[Edmilson 11,610]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

(that Tom/Thomas Nagle fellow -- sometimes spelled Neagle and Nagel -- is an interesting character, btw, but that's a story for another time).

 

Now you got me curious 

 

John Williams's biological granddad wasn't a good father to his son, so he took the name of his stepdad? Sounds a bit like a sad family history.

[Davis 3,957]

But then the guitarist would've had to change his name, too. 

[Edmilson 11,610]

"The iconic Star Wars theme, composed by the famous film composer John Nagle!"

 

Yeah, doesn't sound that good 

[Davis 3,957]

On a more serious note, I can relate, because my last name isn't my original last name, either. My father also took his stepfather's last name after his real father died in WWII, and his mother married another man. 

[Thor 9,334]

 

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Now you got me curious 

 

John Williams's biological granddad wasn't a good father to his son, so he took the name of his stepdad? Sounds a bit like a sad family history.

 

If he was a good father or not, I don't know, but he was a person both with great skills and talents, but also a bit of a scoundrel.

 

Alright, then...since it's a bit unfair of me to leave it hanging:

 

Tom Nagle was a prominent figure in the local entertainment world in Maine in the late 1800s and early 1900s. He was a skilled drummer (a skill inherited by his son), but also an organizer of concerts, plays and events. Some great ones, but also some questionable ones by today's moral standards ('minstrel shows', for example, with black-face actors). He had great sense of humour and was well liked, according to a couple of newspaper clips. He also owned and ran a prominent music store.

 

He married Katherine Duffay in 1903, Williams' grandmother, and got John Francis, Williams' father, in 1905. They must have split up sometime in the mid 1910s. In 1916, she remarried much older Henry J. Williams, while Nagle was drafted into the first world war a couple of months later. After his discharge a couple of years later, he sent a letter to his sister claiming he was involved in numerous battles, now recuperating from war injuries. That wasn't true - his war papers say he was discharged because he was too old, overweight and suffered from illness. The same war papers also reveal he lied about not having kids. Poor young John Francis back home. He died in 1935, when OUR John Williams was 3 years old.

[Edmilson 11,610]

Interesting! It's cool to know that the musical talent had run in at least two generations of the Williams/Nagle family before JW was born, and continued with his descendants.

[Marian Schedenig 11,317]

45 minutes ago, Thor said:

If John Williams' dad hadn't taken the last name of his STEPdad Henry J. Williams, and instead kept the last name of his biological father Tom Nagle, the world's greatest film composer of all time would be named......John Nagle!

 

Not necessarily. The last name can influence the choice of the first name. Maybe they'd have thought "John Nagle" doesn't really roll off the tongue, and named him Kevin Towner Nagle instead.

[Edmilson 11,610]

40 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said:

 

Not necessarily. The last name can influence the choice of the first name. Maybe they'd have thought "John Nagle" doesn't really roll off the tongue, and named him Kevin Towner Nagle instead.

The great Kevin Nagle will conduct the Boston Pops in a selection of his iconic scores for Star Wars, Indiana Jones...

 

And people would discuss this at KNFan.com...

[Thor 9,334]

LOL! There's an alternate reality somewhere where that's the case.

[karelm 3,259]

To me, he'll always first be known as Towner Nagle. 

[Davis 3,957]

What alternate reality?

[GerateWohl 6,396]

2 hours ago, Thor said:

......John Nagle!

 

(that Tom/Thomas Nagle fellow -- sometimes spelled Neagle and Nagel -- is an interesting character, btw, but that's a story for another time).

The name Williams is derived from the German name Willhelm which consists of "Will" or "Wille" which means determination or strong will. And "helm" is just helmet and stand for protection. 

Sounds somewhat heroic.

 

Nagel is just the German word for "nail".

[Davis 3,957]

I thought it comes from The son of William -> William's son -> Williams.

 

Like Ericcson, Adamson, etc. 

[Tom 6,395]

JNFAN.com

[Thor 9,334]

15 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

The name Williams is derived from the German name Willhelm which consists of "Will" or "Wille" which means determination or strong will. And "helm" is just helmet and stand for protection. 

Sounds somewhat heroic.

 

Nagel is just the German word for "nail".

 

Yeah, but "tough as nails"....that's pretty neat too.

[Davis 3,957]

Arnold Schwarzenegger would kill for that last name. 

[GerateWohl 6,396]

He could have developed a great collaboration with Jan Hammer.

[mrbellamy 7,882]

1 hour ago, GerateWohl said:

Nagel is just the German word for "nail".

 

1 hour ago, Thor said:

Yeah, but "tough as nails"....that's pretty neat too.

 

"Nail" is also a synonym for "score" in some contexts...

[Marian Schedenig 11,317]

2 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

"Nail" is also a synonym for "score" in some contexts...

 

Including a sexual one in German, but then the German nickname for William is Willi…

[Brando 2,725]

This was a very interesting read at the end of the week

[King Mark 3,907]

I just came back from the multiverse posting in the John Nagle message board where he scored Lord of the Rings and Star Trek

[Edmilson 11,610]

3 minutes ago, King Mark said:

I just came back from the multiverse posting in the John Nagle message board where he scored Lord of the Rings and Star Trek

In this universe, did Howard Shore score Harry Potters 1 to 3 while Jerry Goldsmith scored Star Wars?

[Brando 2,725]

Is Zimmer in this universe or is he unique to ours?

[The Score Cleaner 9,525]

21 minutes ago, Brando said:

Is Zimmer in this universe or is he unique to ours?

He wa the guitarist for The Bangles

[Andy 7,139]

John Nagle is many things…

 

He's Williams, Johnny, Curly, Kevin, Towner… a man you don’t say ‘no’ to. 

[MrJosh 1,183]

Just got my copy of John Nagle's Titanic, expanded edition produced by Matthew Mattichino. Fantastic use of the Ludlow danger motif. 

[The Score Cleaner 9,525]

3 minutes ago, MrJosh said:

Just got my copy of John Nagle's Titanic, expanded edition produced by Miguel Giacchino. Fantastic use of the Ludlow danger motif. 

Fixed.

[Sunshine Reger 3,699]

I recall an old video of a certain Mr. SpitzNagel playing Cantina Band with a colleague. 

 

https://youtu.be/gNi2oxH37vo?feature=shared

 

 

[Luke Skywalker 2,321]

On 02/03/2024 at 1:07 AM, Faleel said:

Just got my copy of John Nagle's Titanic, expanded edition produced by Miguel Giacchino. Fantastic use of the Ludlow danger motif. 

 

Fixed.

Miguel Mattessino confirmed to score Rogue one and Jurassic World!

[The Score Cleaner 9,525]

Just now, Luke Skywalker said:

Manuel Mattessino confirmed to score Rogue one and Jurassic World!

Fixed

[Edmilson 11,610]

1 hour ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Miguel Mattessino confirmed to score Rogue one and Jurassic World!

 

1 hour ago, Faleel said:

Fixed

In this universe, these movies are called "Rouge Two: A Star Killer Story" and "Jurassic Circus".

[Tom 6,395]

9 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 

In this universe, these movies are called "Rouge Two: A Star Killer Story" and "Jurassic Circus".

back in the 90s when I watched SNL, there would be times when I was not sure whether the commercial I was watching was legit or a spoof.  I am having the same confusion with "Rouge Two."  

[Brando 2,725]

54 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

 

In this universe, these movies are called "Rogue Two: A Star Killer Story" and "Jurassic Circus".

Fixed

[Bellosh 4,490]

Don't let Disney see this thread.

 

They'll re-issue the Indy scores under John Nagle.

 

casuals:  "OMG YES FINALLY!  I MISSED OUT NAGLE'S OTHER SONGS BACK IN 2008 --- THIS IS A MUST BUY!"

[Thor 9,334]

It's interesting to see that the information in this thread has expanded into the world. I just found this article on BBC's classical music site, for example (Michael Beek must have read this thread before publishing that, the way he phrases himself in the pertinent section):

 

https://www.classical-music.com/features/tv-and-film-music/john-williamss-family-the-musical-dynasty-you-knew-nothing-about

[BB-8 5,947]

Nagle..Nagle...

 

T'is the sound of the Tauntaun.

[Thor 9,334]

It's not a pretty name, no, so I'm glad it turned out the way it did. John Williams might not be a very original name, but it flows off the tongue more easily. 

[Marian Schedenig 11,317]

"jnfan" would be easier to pronounce than "jwfan" though.

[Jurassic Shark 16,060]

On 04/03/2024 at 6:38 PM, Luke Skywalker said:

Miguel Mattessino confirmed to score Rogue one and Jurassic World!

 

Que?

[BB-8 5,947]

[Smeltington 1,851]

Just trim his beard a little and put glasses on him...

[BB-8 5,947]

20 minutes ago, Smeltington said:

Just trim his beard a little and put glasses on him...

Why glasses in 2025?

[Smeltington 1,851]

In my mind he has glasses.

It's also in his emoji!  

[BB-8 5,947]

Fixed.

[Smeltington 1,851]

He looks great! He's ready to compose a Star War, or at least to be Manakin's next avatar.

[Brando 2,725]

9 hours ago, Smeltington said:

He looks great! He's ready to compose a Star War, or at least to be Manakin's next avatar.

@Manakin Skywalker

[The Score Cleaner 9,525]

14 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said:

"jnfan" would be easier to pronounce than "jwfan" though.

JayEnnFan? JinnFan? JohnFan? Jay n' Fan? Jeh EnnFan?

[Manakin Skywalker 5,847]

10 hours ago, Smeltington said:

He looks great! He's ready to compose a Star War, or at least to be Manakin's next avatar.

 

I don't get it.