Does anybody ENJOY Star Wars anymore?

[Thor 7,523]

For the record, I haven't read any of the 4 pages of this thread. Just chiming in, randomly.

 

I consider myself a STAR WARS fan. Seen almost everything, I think (films and TV shows). It's an indelible part of my childhood too. But I PALE in comparison to most people here. I don't have the incredible attention to detail that most of you do. I've always been curious if people who are obsessed with STAR WARS also look outside, to other things, or if it's just STAR WARS all the time, everywhere.

[Jurassic Shark 12,094]

3 minutes ago, Thor said:

consider myself a STAR WARS fan. Seen almost everything, I think (films and TV shows).

 

I've seen all of Star Wars.

 

And The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

[Brónach 1,302]

yeah that's the way to go!

[Tallguy 3,402]

6 minutes ago, Thor said:

For the record, I haven't read any of the 4 pages of this thread. Just chiming in, randomly.

 

I consider myself a STAR WARS fan. Seen almost everything, I think (films and TV shows). It's an indelible part of my childhood too. But I PALE in comparison to most people here. I don't have the incredible attention to detail that most of you do. I've always been curious if people who are obsessed with STAR WARS also look outside, to other things, or if it's just STAR WARS all the time, everywhere.

 

Of course, Thor. I also watch Star Trek.

[Andy 4,147]

11 hours ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

Indeed. I gave up on Andor around the time he got arrested on that Monaco planet thing. I'm not really even a TNG fan but I was grinning from ear to ear with parts of Picard S3.

 

Disney Wars has lost me now. I stopped watching Ahsoka after her ridiculous space walk lightsaber stand off and cancelled D+ shortly afterwards. Mando seems to have peaked. I enjoyed BoBF more than most but that appears to have been a one off. Obi-Wan...well let's not go there. Not interested in SW animation. The Acolyte sounds truly dreadful. Nothing mentioned regarding the future films interests me. I would love to own the Prequels and the OT in 3D but that does not seem likely. I'm intrigued to see what fan editor AdyWan comes up with for RotJ: Revisited. Expanded scores....I've given up hope.

Shocking how much of your reactions and opinions I share. Right down to the 3D. 
 

Star Wars is a little like watching your grown child starting to make some bad choices. You still adore it and love it. You try not to overreact or panic, but you worry about its future and at times long for when it was younger.  But you never stop loving it or hoping for a good future for it. 
 

Trek is where it’s at right now. 
 

Orville is the franchise to beat. 
 

I miss the singular vision of George.  Too many cooks. And Filoni is putting too much Filoni in the recipe. 

[Tallguy 3,402]

1 hour ago, Andy said:

I miss the singular vision of George

 

I certainly don't consider The Empire Strikes Back to be the singular vision of George. And I'll admit that that is when he was firing on all cylinders.

 

I suppose I can see where Andor can turn people off. Even excepting the very slow start. I was on board all the way through, but I hate having to tell people "Just wait, it gets REALLY good."

 

Star Wars has lots of vibes. And Andor has some of them in spades but it's really missing others entirely. And of course it has it's own as well, probably more than any Star Wars production before it, even including The Mandalorian. I like the vibes that Andor has. You (I) really feel like there was something to rebel against.

 

But no, it's not the whiz bang that was Star Wars. Maybe I don't miss that as much because I don't think Star Wars (other than maybe Rebels) has had that since 1983. Maybe 1980.

 

(The really dumb thing? I ENJOY conversations like this. )

[Schilkeman 964]

19 hours ago, TheAvengerButton said:

 

I am 33--old enough to have watched the original Star Wars movies as they were originally released without changes, although the Special Edition theatrical releases would shortly follow. Being a young fan in the '90s was glorious. The Nintendo 64 would come out just shortly after that and I'd scoop up Star Wars Rogue Squadron and Shadows of the Empire, which remains one of my favorite games.*

 

*And I have a huge soft spot for McNeely's soundtrack. Still some of my absolute favorite Star Wars music outside of the films.

Yes to all of this, except I’m a little older. Christmas of 98 with Rogue Squadron (and Ocarina) was incredible.
 

And McNeely’s music is the only SW music not written by John Williams that I consider worthy of the franchise. Hard to believe he wrote it in 10 days (and is apparently not a big fan of it for this reason).

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

It's interesting that this thread skipped over EPISODE III, the ST, ROGUE ONE, and SOLO.

[Brónach 1,302]

mentions of videogames but not rpg's. the least said of the d&d version the better. but i guess the other two have translated nicely into generic rulesets beyond star wars.

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

8 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

And McNeely’s music is the only SW music not written by John Williams that I consider worthy of the franchise. Hard to believe he wrote it in 10 days (and is apparently not a big fan of it for this reason).

 

Ten days?? That does sound incredible. And he's not proud of it? What is he prouder of as a composer..."Flipper"?

[JTN 2,048]

On 29/9/2023 at 7:41 PM, Jurassic Shark said:

I've seen all of Star Wars.

 

And The Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi.

Hey, we’ve seen the same 3 films! 
 

 

4 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

It's interesting that this thread skipped over EPISODE III, the ST, ROGUE ONE, and SOLO.

It’s not interesting at all, more like natural.

[Tallguy 3,402]

5 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

It's interesting that this thread skipped over EPISODE III, the ST, ROGUE ONE, and SOLO.

 

Ah, I see what you mean now. Other than Revenge of the Sith, I must have been too busy enjoying Star Wars.

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

Hey, we’ve seen the same 3 films!

I thought I was the only one! This is great. We should form a club.

[Jurassic Shark 12,094]

1 hour ago, JTW said:

It’s not interesting at all, more like natural.

 

Nature found a way.

[Schilkeman 964]

17 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

 

Ten days?? That does sound incredible. And he's not proud of it? What is he prouder of as a composer..."Flipper"?

No joke. He speaks very highly of his Tinker Bell score.

 

He says that he can hear it was rushed and feels unpolished. Obviously, every artist wants more time, but I think he did an admirable job, and I’ve always enjoyed the music.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

Jerry wrote CHINATOWN in ten days, and look what happened to that.

[Chen G. 3,951]

On 30/09/2023 at 5:00 AM, Tallguy said:

I certainly don't consider The Empire Strikes Back to be the singular vision of George. And I'll admit that that is when he was firing on all cylinders.

 

I agree. I mean, reading the story conferences, you do see he had the movie's basic plot (notwithstanding Boba Fett and the Vader reveal, both added later by him) in his head pretty clearly. But I doubt that, had he been writing and directing, it would turn to the sepulchral as it did. He knew it needed to be more intense, but not necessary darker in the way it ended up being under Kershner and Kasdan's watch. And I know he disliked Kershner's tempi, which of course are very significant to the atmosphere of the movie.

 

On 30/09/2023 at 5:00 AM, Tallguy said:

I suppose I can see where Andor can turn people off. Even excepting the very slow start. I was on board all the way through, but I hate having to tell people "Just wait, it gets REALLY good." [...] But no, it's not the whiz bang that was Star Wars. Maybe I don't miss that as much because I don't think Star Wars (other than maybe Rebels) has had that since 1983. Maybe 1980.

 

 

Yeah, Andor is not necessarily the most...accessible of shows. Its kinda episodic, a little slow to pick up, and skewes hard towards science fiction where much (not all!) of Star Wars is more fantasy oriented; and the characters are not as naturally lovable as the usual Star Wars-y fodder.

[Brónach 1,302]

4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

And I know he disliked Kershner's tempi, which of course are very significant to the atmosphere of the movie.

 

it's only the best atmosphere in a star wars movie

[Tallguy 3,402]

9 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

and the characters are not as naturally lovable as the usual Star Wars-y fodder

 

You know, even compared to the music and the pacing, this is the biggest departure in Andor. You don't really root for these characters as much as you REALLY root against the Empire! This is one of those deals where the villains are not defeated (yet). They are survived. (Which is very Empire Strikes Back, actually.)

[Chen G. 3,951]

Right. And I do think the show would have been better with a main character a little more sympathetic than Kassian, and I think in general when you ask people the best parts of Andor for many tend to NOT be Cassian, but rather Mon Monthma (excellent), Andy Serkis (superb), Stellan Skarsgard (also superb), etc...

[Mr. Hooper 1,805]

8 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

He says that he can hear it was rushed and feels unpolished. Obviously, every artist wants more time, but I think he did an admirable job, and I’ve always enjoyed the music.

It's intriguing to think then what he has in mind. He should do a polish and get it recorded, since—and he has to face this—it's his most memorable work to many.

 

I just finished listening to it, and admired how it fit 'Star Wars' without aping Williams. It has a Carl Davis sound to it, I think.

[Tallguy 3,402]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Right. And I do think the show would have been better with a main character a little more sympathetic than Kassian, and I think in general when you ask people the best parts of Andor for many tend to NOT be Cassian, but rather Mon Monthma (excellent), Andy Serkis (superb), Stellan Skarsgard (also superb), etc...

 

He's not UNsympathetic. He's just not a Harrison Ford / Claude Rains lovable rogue type. One of the most interesting things is that he actually has a journey that we can see. And although we know where he ends up there is meat on the bones there.  He's not nearly the "Well, this guy is probably alright, isn't he?" that Han Solo was.

 

For me that's when the show shifted into high gear was the prison. It was the one two punch of Cassian's story being less about him and Andy Serkis' powerhouse performance. I liked it before that and the second set of episodes (the heist) was more than good enough.

 

The weakest part of the series was the flashback's to Andor's childhood. It was neither fleshed out enough in time and place (it took some figuring that the "bad guys" were the Republic IIRC) nor did it ever really pay off the way other parts of the show did. It set up that Cassian had a Mom.

[Chen G. 3,951]

I agree, but it does highlight a structural weakness of the show:

 

Quote

For me that's when the show shifted into high gear was the prison. 

 

Ostensibly, the show has several "episodes" and I don't mean the actual episodes, I mean it has several different stories dovetailing into each other, rather than one long one. So we start with this ostensibly SWAT raid looking for Andor. Then there's a whole episode about this heist. Then there's the prison "episode." Eventually Mon Monthma swims into focus. Saw Garrera is kinda shoved in there a little bit.

 

Its a great show, but not without shortcomings.

[Tallguy 3,402]

Just now, Chen G. said:

Eventually Mon Monthma swims into focus. Saw Garrera is kinda shoved in there a little bit.

 

Mon Mothma came into focus pretty quickly. She was my hands down absolute favorite part of the show. And they really need to cast a fantastic Leia Organa for season 2.

 

Just now, Chen G. said:

Its a great show, but not without shortcomings.

 

True. But it IS great.

[Chen G. 3,951]

Oh, and on the larger franchise level - and this ties more to the subject of the thread as a whole - it does further this issue whereby nowadays we have more story material happening BETWEEN the "story" entries than in them.

 

The amount of stuff Disney had managed to shove into the gap between Episode III and the original Star Wars is absolutely ridiculous. And, like I said before, its very likely that a new audience will have seen Andor or Rogue One or Obi Wan BEFORE seeing the original film, and coming off of something like Andor, how can that film not come across to such an audience as more than a little bit pat? I feel like the original film, moreso than any other entry, kind of got "buried" under the series it spawned.

[Tallguy 3,402]

14 hours ago, Chen G. said:

The amount of stuff Disney had managed to shove into the gap between Episode III and the original Star Wars is absolutely ridiculous. And, like I said before, its very likely that a new audience will have seen Andor or Rogue One or Obi Wan BEFORE seeing the original film, and coming off of something like Andor, how can that film not come across to such an audience as more than a little bit pat? I feel like the original film, moreso than any other entry, kind of got "buried" under the series it spawned.

 

Probably true. But 1) There is 20 years between RotS and Star Wars and 2) It still smarts that there is nothing between Star Wars and Empire.

 

As I have complained before: We have HOW many episodes featuring all of the characters from the much less well regarded Prequels? I can watch all the Anakin Skywalker I can possibly stomach. But Leia, Luke, and Han are precious gems rarely to be trifled with, and only with special effects wizardry so as to never sully their memory with the possibility of another actor in the role. (Although now poor Annie has joined the ranks of the digital undead. I can't complain about that too much because I've enjoyed his performance in Ahsoka more than anything in AotC or RotS.)

 

Long digression. Anyway: The solution for this is simple: Just remember that it BEGINS with Star Wars.

 

I realized this morning while listening to The Princess Appears (because I still enjoy Star Wars) how much DISCOVERY is in Star Wars. I always maintain that you can't watch The Phantom Menace first because they don't tell you about the Force until Star Wars. But even something as simple a Leia's hologram.

 

(I have a similar argument against reading the Narnia books in chronological order. You can't because the exposition is in the first book that was written.)

 

There's two ways to look at it: How is something perceived in Star Wars and how is something perceived in Real Life. The article that started this thread is more concerned with Real Life. When Leia's hologram appears in Real Life in 1977 it was mind blowing. (Of course the word "hologram" is never mentioned in Star Wars.) Holograms were kind of a cool new idea in the mid 1970's and this was a really wild visualization and application of it. And it's the only one in Star Wars. In the other films it becomes part of the visual glue of the universe. But not only that, it's become a science fiction staple. They're in everything. And rather a lot of them sign post that they are holograms by giving them the same inexplicable scan-line effect from Star Wars! (Unless it's a holodeck.)

 

There is so much that was absolutely unique to Star Wars in 1977 that has just become part of the air we breathe in our cinematic language. And that's hard to recapture even for the very young.

 

In universe Star Wars is an introduction to (for example): Sand People, Imperial Cruisers, the Millennium Falcon, the Force, the Jedi, the Death Star. None of the other films put the same kind of wonder of discovery (including the musical weight that Williams provided) on any of these ideas. Even though Solo certainly introduces the Falcon it's intended as an emotion of recognition rather than one of something new.

 

So of course Star Wars is succeeded by everything else. It's the origin point. It's the base that everything else grows out of.

[Chen G. 3,951]

21 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Long digression. Anyway: The solution for this is simple: Just remember that it BEGINS with Star Wars.

 

I realized this morning while listening to The Princess Appears (because I still enjoy Star Wars) how much DISCOVERY is in Star Wars. I always maintain that you can't watch The Phantom Menace first because they don't tell you about the Force until Star Wars. But even something as simple a Leia's hologram.

 

(I have a similar argument against reading the Narnia books in chronological order. You can't because the exposition is in the first book that was written.)

 

I don't diagree (although by happenstance I did watch The Phantom Menace first and its perfectly comprehensible that way, too). But I'm saying, even ignoring the episode order or anything, when new audiences are introduced to the franchise, what's the more likely option? That the first piece of Star Wars they'll see would be a new, touted TV show or a recent movie, or that it would be a film from 1977 that for all they know is now billed as "Episode IV"?

 

New audiences aren't necessarily going to watch Episodes I-III, The Clone Wars, Solo, Obi Wan, Andor, Rogue One and only then Star Wars (if they did, the problem I was just describing would be aggrevated tenfold) but they may well stumble upon at least or or two of those later properties first, and then decide to check the original out. And so that air of exploration and discovery that the original film has may well be spoiled for them.

[mstrox 6,651]

Started Mandalorian Season 3 this week and it turns out I still like Star Wars.

[Jay 37,375]

Why'd you wait so long?

[mstrox 6,651]

I only ever have one show going at a time (since my time to do something without my spouse or my kid is very limited, maybe an hour or two a week), so just hadn’t slotted it in - and then I decided to replay Breath of the Wild, and then TOTK came out.

[Jay 37,375]

Did you beat TOTK?

[mstrox 6,651]

Nope, just taking a break.  I’ve gotten through the Rito and Goron dungeons at this point. My kid is actually farther than I am in TOTK plotwise, with my help.  In my game, I spend a lot of time dicking around.

[Andy 4,147]

Man, I love the SAGA, but there are days when I wish I could go back to the years when there was one movie - Star Wars.  @Tallguy did a nice job describing it in the film.  But the whole culture of growing up when it was new is indescribable.   That’s why sometimes I can’t say Empire is better, simply because the aura of that first film and the associated mania has a magic all its own.   Every single thing in that movie was new.  Jawas, lightsabers, Darth Vader, X-Wings, the Force, Tatooine. All the things we just accept as common currency. And now I find myself just repeating Tallguy.  But IYKYK. 
 

I don’t want to say the magic is gone, but it’s feeling like it’s still Christmas Day but all the gifts have been opened. 

[Schilkeman 964]

I respect Star Wars 77 purists. I can't go down that road with them, but I get it.

[Chen G. 3,951]

Yeah, I certainly don't wish the series was just left with that one movie. I feel like The Empire Strikes Back was a lightyears leap forward.

[GerateWohl 4,378]

23 hours ago, Tallguy said:

In universe Star Wars is an introduction to (for example): Sand People, Imperial Cruisers, the Millennium Falcon, the Force, the Jedi, the Death Star. None of the other films put the same kind of wonder of discovery (including the musical weight that Williams provided) on any of these ideas. Even though Solo certainly introduces the Falcon it's intended as an emotion of recognition rather than one of something new.

Empire introduced to imperial probes, imperial battle walkers, snow speeders, Tauntauns, Wampas, telekinetic force, actually 80% of what we know about the force first appeared in Empire, cloud City, space snaggles, Asteroid fields and much more. Empire was a huge step forward for Star Wars. So, this was at least the second most innovative episode in Star Wars. Episode 1 probably third. 

[Chen G. 3,951]

25 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

actually 80% of what we know about the force first appeared in Empire

 

That's because the concept of what The Force was changed between films. In the original film, its obviously a manifest power, but it doesn't do all that much, and really acts more as a metaphor for believing in one's self and in one's feelings. So, a very abstract, 1970s New Age-y thing. Its also not as hard to master - at the end of the film, there was to be a voiceover from Ben that was cut telling Luke that "you've stepped into your father's shoes" - and there's no indication it was hereditary as of yet.

 

In The Empire Strikes Back, it reverts to a more overt superpower in the style of the Lensmen, and now seems to take rigorous training to master. Then by Return of the Jedi it becomes part-hereditary, and we end up with the concept of The Force as we now know it.

 

This is partially why I feel the original film is "buried": not just because so much it was retconned, but also because in the grand scheme of the series, it feels the most out-of-place and probably does the least of any entry in pushing the overall story forward, simply because when it was made, no such overriding story was in-existence. So, if someone were to watch Episodes I-III and then go through the classic trilogy, they might feel they "got" the least out of this film, and it would certainly feel the odd one out to them, stylistically and tonally.

[mstrox 6,651]

How much of the Ahsoka miniseries do you think George Lucas had planned in advance vs made up later? 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

3 minutes ago, mstrox said:

How much of the Ahsoka miniseries do you think George Lucas had planned in advance...

 

None of it.

 

4 minutes ago, mstrox said:

... vs made up later? 

 

All of it.

[mstrox 6,651]

Same old Lucas lies, smdh

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

You shake it as much as you want, Mike, because I'll bet my bottom dollar that my post is 100% true.

The Mouse rejected his ideas for EPs. VII - IX, so how much attention do you think it will pay to some treatment for a pissant TV show?

[mstrox 6,651]

When George wrote Ahsoka in 1976, he didn’t want Grand Admiral Thrawn to show up until the last ten minutes of the eighth episode.

[Chen G. 3,951]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

The Mouse rejected his ideas for EPs. VII - IX

 

They accepted an overwhelming amount of his ideas for Episode VII, and his ideas for VIII and IX were so vague as to be nonexistent.

[Tallguy 3,402]

@Andy absolutely perfect.

 

It's not that I would ever want there to be ONLY Star Wars.

 

I know I've told this story before, I just hope it wasn't in this thread: Around 1994 there was a cinema that showed Star Wars, Empire, and Jedi one a night for three nights. Star Wars had been creeping back into the public consciousness. I was sitting next to a 12 or 13 year old kid. To him Star Wars had just always BEEN. He asked me "What was it like?" And I told him I just couldn't compare it to anything that had happened in his lifetime.

 

I always get a little grumpy when people say "Well you know, Star Wars was just a kids movie." It was certainly perfect FOR kids. And Andor is about as "adult" as I ever need Star Wars to get. But the whole freaking world (or at least the United States) went NUTS in 1977 for Star Wars. Star Wars was everywhere! Magazine covers, TV spots, it was hard to get away from (not that I ever wanted to). And it didn't STOP for months! John Williams had a best selling record! On the actual "kid" side of things the toys (other than a board game) didn't come out until the next year. And Star Wars was still going strong enough to support them.

 

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

In the original film, its obviously a manifest power, but it doesn't do all that much, and really acts more as a metaphor for believing in one's self and in one's feelings.

 

Well, you did have Vader's force choke. And the comic had him levitating a drink. (No idea how he was going to drink it.) But yes, we got a much better "look" at the Force in the next one.

 

5 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Empire introduced to imperial probes, imperial battle walkers, snow speeders, Tauntauns, Wampas, telekinetic force, actually 80% of what we know about the force first appeared in Empire, cloud City, space snaggles, Asteroid fields and much more. Empire was a huge step forward for Star Wars. So, this was at least the second most innovative episode in Star Wars. Episode 1 probably third. 

 

Oh certainly. The difference as I see it is that it was all "more Star Wars". With SW even the ideas of the ideas were new. Once you saw what could be done you could extrapolate. I just think of lines like "Sandpeople! Or WORSE". It's got more of a "chucked in the deep end" feel than any of the others. (I mean other than "A TRADE negotiation? WHAT now?")

 

RotJ is no slouch when it comes to world building either.

[Chen G. 3,951]

9 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Well, you did have Vader's force choke. And the comic had him levitating a drink. (No idea how he was going to drink it.)

 

Like I said, its definitely a manifest power. But its still a lot less pronounced than in the sequel.

 

Oh, and the beat you talk about is a leftover from the third draft; and remember that, still at the time of shooting probably, Vader was not yet a burn victim: he could take the mask off.

[GerateWohl 4,378]

59 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

Well, you did have Vader's force choke. And the comic had him levitating a drink. (No idea how he was going to drink it.) But yes, we got a much better "look" at the Force in the next one.

By the way, in the newer material it seems force choke is something just used by the bad guys. But in ROTJ Luke used it, too.

 

The coolest thing they invented in ROTJ was, that jedi can parry laser shots with their lightsabre. 

[Tallguy 3,402]

5 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

By the way, in the newer material it seems force choke is something just used by the bad guys. But in ROTJ Luke used it, too.

 

The coolest thing they invented in ROTJ was, that jedi can parry laser shots with their lightsabre. 

 

In the West End RPG force choke earned you a dark side point. I always said "But Luke!"

 

As an Andor / Rogue One fan the coolest thing they invented in Jedi was Mon Mothma. But you make a good argument.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

When John Williams wrote A New Hope  i sang his praises later on when he wrote The Color Purple I sang them again

[Naïve Old Fart 9,554]

3 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

They accepted an overwhelming amount of his ideas for Episode VII, and his ideas for VIII and IX were so vague as to be nonexistent.

 

Which one Lucas' ideas made it into Ep. VII?

[Brónach 1,302]

Luke in exile in some place, i believe