The Last Jedi trailer this Friday

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

We're not allowed to discuss John Williams there! 

 

Jason will punish us!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

I thought you liked being punished?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

By very expensive women clad in tight leather!

 

Not by Jason LeBlanc.

[Quintus 5,399]

Dudes, it's not my place to say where you should talk about your interests. But I'd just like to know which thread I'm best typing in, because it's easier for me to keep up and contribute that way. This or the other one. 

[mstrox 6,651]

Please everybody move all discussion of where discussion belongs to the Discussion Direction Thread.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Or the mstrox thread!

[filmmusic 1,829]

This is the first Star Wars movie I won't see, since I've lost all interest in anything Star Wars related..

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thank you for your contribution to this thread

[Quintus 5,399]

We all look forward to hearing your thoughts on it a little while after release (after you fold).  

[Wojo 2,453]

1 hour ago, filmmusic said:

This is the first Star Wars movie I won't see, since I've lost all interest in anything Star Wars related..

Of you say so. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 hour ago, Quintus said:

We all look forward to hearing your thoughts on it a little while after release (after you fold).  

 

Will you be taking your youngest on opening day to see it?

[crumbs 14,316]

I will give credit to Disney for doing an incredible job blurring the sound of trailer music and John Williams. That first half genuinely sounded like a Williams composition (complete with orchestra) but as the trailer went on it felt more like trailer house on steroids.

[Quintus 5,399]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

 

Will you be taking your youngest on opening day to see it?

 

Certainly in the first week. 

[Will 2,215]

Man, not knowing whether this was Williams is killing me! 

 

Hopefully some clarity will be provided soon, although I doubt it. 

 

At least hopefully more of the really musically knowledgeable people here weigh in soon. 

 

I would make a poll thread, but we already have two threads so instead, @Jay or @Ricard, would you be able to make a poll? 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

2 minutes ago, Will said:

Man, not knowing whether this was Williams is killing me! 

 

 

Why?

 

And how would making a poll would help in that regard? No one knows for sure, everyone would just be guessing.

 

[Will 2,215]

Just now, BloodBoal said:

 

 

Why?

 

And how would making a poll would help in that regard? No one knows for sure, everyone would just be guessing.

 

 

But at least we could concentrate the guesses in one place, which is better than searching through three different threads!

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Let me make it easier for you: some think it is definitely Williams, others think it is clearly by someone who isn't Williams, and a third group thinks it is Williams but with added overlays by some random dude(s). No one knows for sure, and will never know for sure until there's a confirmation by someone who worked on it.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

I posted this in the other thread:

 

I know for a fact that Mike Rubino scored the second TFA trailer, as well as several of the later teasers, and this sounds very similar, not to mention it fits his style of composing like a glove. I'm pretty convinced it was composed by him. He likes to incorporate motifs from the films he's scoring the trailers for, and I know he's a big fan of John Williams.

[Marcus 390]

Pretty sure at least most of this is Williams, with some obvious trailer music post-production tampering.

 

Love how the celesta's playing Rey's fanfare in counterpoint to the first statement of the Force theme (quite clever...and subtle! ). 

 

Also, the brass flourishes of the second half sound more involved than what you'd normally get from trailer music factories....

 

 

 

 

 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

This same discussion, with the same silly conclusions.  

 

Sad!

[DarthDementous 1,059]

the first scene of the trailer almost feels like the pan down from space in every Star Wars movie but with a twist. musically it sounds very much like John Williams as well, I think that of all parts is most likely to be him - but other parts are definitely either all trailer house or a splice. as much as it irritates us, the general audience just doesn't get as hyped by trailers without loud fake instruments and choir, so maybe they reached a compromise and had a bit of a mix. its certainly more likely in this case because a decent amount of scoring has already been done for TLJ.

[crumbs 14,316]

That hint of Rey's Theme in power anthem mode (over the shot of the Falcon blasting the X-Wing) is phenomenal. Just shows how Williams can write themes that are versatile enough to be tender and emotionally resonant, yet also transformative enough to be used in an epic and powerful way such as this. Just as Williams is a chameleon composer, he writes themes that are chameleons themselves depending on orchestration.

 

Reminds me of the Force Theme's development through successive films in the OT. I think he was restraining his use of Rey's Theme in TFA; he said as much in the scoring featurette. It appears all over that film but I think its most glorious and powerful appearances are still to come.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

24 minutes ago, crumbs said:

That hint of Rey's Theme in power anthem mode (over the shot of the Falcon blasting the X-Wing) is phenomenal. Just shows how Williams can write themes that are versatile enough to be tender and emotionally resonant, yet also transformative enough to be used in an epic and powerful way such as this. Just as Williams is a chameleon composer, he writes themes that are chameleons themselves depending on orchestration.

 

Reminds me of the Force Theme's development through successive films in the OT. I think he was restraining his use of Rey's Theme in TFA; he said as much in the scoring featurette. It appears all over that film but I think its most glorious and powerful appearances are still to come.

wait what, did you say the Falcon was blasting an X-Wing?

 

my mind kind of turned off in that scene, I thought it was just fighting tie fighters like the Falcon is want to do.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Okay, I'm back from working all day and didn't follow any of this thread because it was time for me to go row with the other slaves. Before I watch Titanic, I did manage to watch the teaser on a break, on a phone. The teaser itself did absolutely nothing for me, although I was surprised to hear Luke quoting an Anna Nalick song. It sounded like Williams with some awful "embellishments". But nothing to write home about. I want to say:

 

[crumbs 14,316]

19 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

wait what, did you say the Falcon was blasting an X-Wing?

 

my mind kind of turned off in that scene, I thought it was just fighting tie fighters like the Falcon is want to do.

 

TIE-fighter. Typo.

[ocelot 508]

6 hours ago, filmmusic said:

This is the first Star Wars movie I won't see, since I've lost all interest in anything Star Wars related..

OMG What? Why? It looks fantastic. Oh wait, hold on, I don't care. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I agree with filmmusic.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

5 hours ago, Quintus said:

We all look forward to hearing your thoughts on it a little while after release (after you fold).  

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I didn't see Rogue One. It's started. I am simply not interested in Disney Star Wars except for John Williams music. So bring on the Horner-esque derivative but entertaining Williams score!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I have one reaction to Star Wars:

 

 

 

It's a universe that is at its best, in my mind, when it gets heavily involved with the mysteries of the Force, and when there is a sense of exploration and real adventure and strangeness.  Not when it's the same old good/evil melodrama and galactic warfare.  I always preferred stuff like KOTOR for that reason.  I know nothing about all the books and crap beyond the movies and a few of the video games.  I'm sure there is stuff in there I'd like.  But I'm content to keep up my indifferent hope that, for once, they'll really embrace that stuff full on in one of the movies.  Maybe this time?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Revenge of the Sith is the the best one. For the most part, the rest are just Saturday matinee popcorn movies for kids, exactly as Lucas intended.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

I am increasingly satisfied by the prequels' tendency to dip into some of that stuff I mentioned.  ROTS does it well.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Revenge of the Sith is better than everything except Titanic, Star Trek, the Tim Burton Batman films, film scores and The Haunted Mansion at Disneyland.

[Will 2,215]

Isolated music courtesy of @Manakin Skywalker:

 

 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Hot damn! Thanks for that, guys. Was really tempted to watch the trailer so I could hear the music but I didn't want to fold on my promise to not watch any of the trailers prior to the film's release. Thanks for giving me an out! Yahoo! 

[Will 2,215]

17 minutes ago, Cerebral Cortex said:

Hot damn! Thanks for that, guys. Was really tempted to watch the trailer so I could hear the music but I didn't want to fold on my promise to not watch any of the trailers prior to the film's release. Thanks for giving me an out! Yahoo! 

 

You will hear a few dialogue echoes but none of them are spoilers (in my opinion). Most of the echoes are actually of old dialogue from previous films. 

 

---------------

 

I want this to be Williams just as much as most of you, but have any of you considered this? --

 

Every time there's a trailer with lots of music that sounds extremely unlike JW's orchestration, people say it's probably a JW composition "beefed up" and added onto by a music house.

 

But, as far as I know, that has never happened in a significant way (except possibly TFA teaser 2). 

 

The point is that, in general, there have been only two categories: new Williams music, or not new Williams music. 

 

So I'm inclined to think none of this was JW, as much as I wish I was wrong. 

 

Is it also just me or do the various subtle hints at Williams TFA themes seem like more something a fanboy would do than Williams himself?

 

@Manakin Skywalker's recent comment (he didn't give a source though) supports my conclusion:

 

Quote

I know for a fact that Mike Rubino scored the second TFA trailer, as well as several of the later teasers, and this sounds very similar, not to mention it fits his style of composing like a glove. I'm pretty convinced it was composed by him. He likes to incorporate motifs from the films he's scoring the trailers for, and I know he's a big fan of John Williams.

 

For the record no one (except for the music house noted earlier in this or another thread)  has claimed credit for this yet as far as I know, although that's not to say one might not be forthcoming. Also I can't remember the name of the house that did Rogue One trailer 2, so I couldn't check that one. 

 

It's not unheard of for multiple music houses to claim credit for the same trailer (possibly because it was a team effort) -- if Manikin's source is correct, Rubino, Orphan Music, and Felix Erksine worked on TFA teaser 2 (plus Williams himself, of course!)

 

3 hours ago, Marcus said:

Pretty sure at least most of this is Williams, with some obvious trailer music post-production tampering.

 

Love how the celesta's playing Rey's fanfare in counterpoint to the first statement of the Force theme (quite clever...and subtle! ). 

 

Also, the brass flourishes of the second half sound more involved than what you'd normally get from trailer music factories....

 

Yes, it is (and don't get me wrong, I want to believe this is JW!!), although watch this.

 

It was made by a fan, and sounds awesome. It has some crazy brass flourishes as well.

 

I dunno, it seems to me like another composer could definitely do what we heard. 

 

 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,892]

2 hours ago, Will said:

Also I can't remember the name of the house that did Rogue One trailer 2, so I couldn't check that one.

NinjaTracks. But there's no need to check, as they do not create music for specific trailers. They write various music in bulk, and send it off to trailer houses to be edited to any trailers (much like Immediate Music and X-Ray Dog). The Rogue One trailer music appears to have been written years ago, before Rogue One was probably even in development. The choral force theme at the beginning was actually a patch created with EWQL Symphonic Choirs' soprano solo voice (mod #1)  - I can confirm this as I own the program and the waveforms are identical. I've spent some time studying trailer music back in the day, so I have an good idea of how the business works.

[mrbellamy 6,287]

3 hours ago, Will said:

I want this to be Williams just as much as most of you, but have any of you considered this? --

 

Every time there's a trailer with lots of music that sounds extremely unlike JW's orchestration, people say it's probably a JW composition "beefed up" and added onto by a music house.

 

But, as far as I know, that has never happened in a significant way (except possibly TFA teaser 2). 

 

The point is that, in general, there have been only two categories: new Williams music, or not new Williams music. 

 

I'm not sure what you're defining as "significant" but the infamous ABC TV spot added goofy stuff to Jedi Steps.

[Marcus 390]

4 hours ago, Will said:

 

You will hear a few dialogue echoes but none of them are spoilers (in my opinion). Most of the echoes are actually of old dialogue from previous films. 

 

---------------

 

I want this to be Williams just as much as most of you, but have any of you considered this? --

 

Every time there's a trailer with lots of music that sounds extremely unlike JW's orchestration, people say it's probably a JW composition "beefed up" and added onto by a music house.

 

But, as far as I know, that has never happened in a significant way (except possibly TFA teaser 2). 

 

The point is that, in general, there have been only two categories: new Williams music, or not new Williams music. 

 

So I'm inclined to think none of this was JW, as much as I wish I was wrong. 

 

Is it also just me or do the various subtle hints at Williams TFA themes seem like more something a fanboy would do than Williams himself?

 

@Manakin Skywalker's recent comment (he didn't give a source though) supports my conclusion:

 

 

For the record no one (except for the music house noted earlier in this or another thread)  has claimed credit for this yet as far as I know, although that's not to say one might not be forthcoming. Also I can't remember the name of the house that did Rogue One trailer 2, so I couldn't check that one. 

 

It's not unheard of for multiple music houses to claim credit for the same trailer (possibly because it was a team effort) -- if Manikin's source is correct, Rubino, Orphan Music, and Felix Erksine worked on TFA teaser 2 (plus Williams himself, of course!)

 

 

Yes, it is (and don't get me wrong, I want to believe this is JW!!), although watch this.

 

It was made by a fan, and sounds awesome. It has some crazy brass flourishes as well.

 

I dunno, it seems to me like another composer could definitely do what we heard. 

 

 

 

 

Nothing in that fan trailer sounds like Williams, though. 

 

Like the rest of you, I have no way of saying with 100% certainty that this was written by Williams.

 

But based on technical aspects of the writing,  and my own "Williams- radar" (which, for what it's worth,  was right about the music in all the EPVII trailers), I would be surprised (and impressed!) to learn that it was written by somebody else entirely (except for the obvious music house additions). 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Neither does anything in the new one.

 

Look, it's not the Randy Kerber celesta.  Doesn't that give you people enough to go on?

[Marcus 390]

29 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Neither does anything in the new one.

 

Look, it's not the Randy Kerber celesta.  Doesn't that give you people enough to go on?

 

 

Just to be a nerd about it:

The opening C7#11/E celeste figure, and especially how it then ascends to B natural, as well as the underlying #9-9 trill, and the passing G minor tonality before the (a bit less typical, but still) massive glissando, sound very much like something Williams could have written...

 

Also, the fact that the celeste then goes on to play the fanfare part of Rey's theme as counterpoint to the first statement of the Force theme, seems more involved and creative than what I'd expect from a music house. 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Quintus 5,399]

There are known knowns. These are things we know that we know. There are known unknowns. That is to say, there are things that we know we don't know. But there are also unknown unknowns. There are things we don't know we don't know.

[filmmusic 1,829]

6 hours ago, ocelot said:

OMG What? Why? It looks fantastic. Oh wait, hold on, I don't care. 

I know you said you don't care but anyway:

It isn't the specific film.

it's just that I'm bored with Star Wars as I'm bored with any film franchise exceeding 3 films.

3 films were more than enough for me, I love them, they're among my favourite films ever, but after that it has become a soap opera, mainly created to get money since Hollywood is out of new ideas and people don't go to cinema.

I didn't want to see SW VII either, but anyway, i went out of curiosity and I was bored to death...

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

59 minutes ago, Marcus said:

 

 

Just to be a nerd about it:

The opening C7#11/E celeste figure, and especially how it then ascends to B natural, as well as the underlying #9-9 trill, and the passing G minor tonality before the (a bit less typical, but still) massive glissando, sound very much like something Williams could have written...

 

Also, the fact that the celeste then goes on to play the fanfare part of Rey's theme as counterpoint to the first statement of the Force theme, seems more involved and creative than what I'd expect from a music house. 

 

Could have written, yes... but also could have been written by anyone with a passing knowledge of his mannerisms.

 

And even if we did assume "music house" people are utter dolts who have no capacity for creative counterpointing of themes, anyone who heard the end credits from the last film already has that pairing in their head and would hardly need any great insight to do it again.

[Quintus 5,399]

Indeed.

 

The presumptuous snobbery which descends on these things from certain quarters is always disappointing. 

 

54 minutes ago, filmmusic said:

I didn't want to see SW VII either, but anyway, i went out of curiosity

 

As I said, we're all looking forward to hearing your thoughts on this one.

[DominicCobb 194]

Having listened to it, who knows. The celeste is different than the classic ESB one, which you'd figure a trailer house would use (like for TFA).

 

The Rey's theme/Force theme pairing is a lot more interesting than maybe anything I've heard a trailer music house do (though I admit I don't pay much attention). We should note too that the portion of Rey's theme being intertwined is a different section altogether than in the TFA end credit suite, so it's not as if they just copied that.

 

One thing that makes me skeptical that it's Williams is wouldn't they tell us? Weren't they really excited to say that the first TFA teaser had JW music when it first came out?

[mrbellamy 6,287]

1 hour ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

Could have written, yes... but also could have been written by anyone with a passing knowledge of his mannerisms.

 

And even if we did assume "music house" people are utter dolts who have no capacity for creative counterpointing of themes, anyone who heard the end credits from the last film already has that pairing in their head and would hardly need any great insight to do it again.

 

I get what you're saying though to me it's really not that whoever these people are would be too dumb or musically inept to make those connections. It's not like it's the most complicated thing in the world, it's more that I just can't really think of much precedence for that sort of thematic "follow-through" in a trailer that isn't written by the composer himself or just tracked in. TFA's score is still young after all and that end credits moment, while memorable, was still only one instance at the tail end of a 9 minute suite. So it'd just be an odd and pleasant surprise for someone other than Williams to highlight that connection that we love between the themes this quickly and make it a feature in the marketing.

 

Especially with the nature of Rey's Theme in particular as a composition, I'm honestly kind of impressed that three separate components of her theme got singled out here, and they're all nicely articulated IMO. Maybe I'm easily pleased, but I thought at most maybe there'd be one reference of the first phrase or they'd simply track in something verbatim from TFA. Naturally I just assume only Williams would think to dig into the theme with any kind of fluency this early on but I'd be quite happy to find out that somebody else in charge of these things is listening. I don't particularly love walking around with low expectations.