John Williams Plagiarizing Himself

[Alex 3,147]

 

Kinda sounds similar to (3:05):

 

 

[Falstaft 2,241]

2 hours ago, Alex said:

 

Kinda sounds similar to (3:05):

 

 

 

Just the tip of the iceberg, @Alex 

 

 

 

[Smeltington 2,011]

Lol! This is more extensive than I realized. The original might be the best. I also like the ones from Star Wars eps 2 and 8 (which is labeled as 7 in the video btw).

 

20 years of Ludlow!

[eitam 426]

Heh. I never noticed some of those examples had similarities beyond "fast low strings" (one of my favourite staples of JW's action writing !) 

Though this is certainly not at the level of Horner's danger motif. 

[Edmilson 12,380]

I love the Ludlow motif! JW always uses it when he wants his action music more kinetic and intense. It's his own danger motif. 

[bruce marshall 1,988]

Well, you can't plagiarize yourself but you can ' borrow' from the classics:

 

" The Planet Krypton" = " Pines of Rome" by Respighi

 

" BOTFJ" = aria from TURANDOT

 

The main difference between Horner and JW, is the latter is much better at disguising his influences!😳

THE COWBOYS = JFK

[Jay 46,245]

On 6/6/2020 at 2:11 PM, Falstaft said:

 

Just the tip of the iceberg, @Alex 

 

 

 

 

Ha!  I had never seen that video before, great work!  Some of those hadn't occured to me!

 

If you ever do an updated version, two corrections for you:

The name of the character is Tintin, not Tin Tin

 

When you showcase music from episode 8, you accidentally put "Episode VII" on the screen instead of "Episode VIII"

 

Seriously though, fun video!

[Edmilson 12,380]

I was listening to The Ultimate War the other day and its style reminded me of the action music for Anakin flying during the climax of The Phantom Menace, and also of Irina's Great Blade/The Adventures of Mutt.

[Falstaft 2,241]

13 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

I was listening to The Ultimate War the other day and its style reminded me of the action music for Anakin flying during the climax of The Phantom Menace, and also of Irina's Great Blade/The Adventures of Mutt.

 

Emulations of Korngold's swashbuckling music, all!

[Edmilson 12,380]

I like that style of JW's action writing. It's less heavy and dramatic than his post-Jurassic Park/Lost World style, but still very entertaining, happier, brighter and more comedic.

[TheUlyssesian 2,746]

On 6/6/2020 at 2:11 PM, Falstaft said:

 

Just the tip of the iceberg, @Alex 

 

 

 

 

I'd say some of these are a bit of stretch. I think the only straight clear note for note lift is in Harry Potter 1. And perhaps Stars Wars 8. And I daresay it actually works far better in HP1. So for me personally, it will always be the Quidittich motif. 

[Falstaft 2,241]

Sure, they're not all exact -- I think I acknowledge as much at the end. Though the majority are quite close. Here's a few transcriptions -- feel free to judge for yourself!

 

 

 

and from Ep 8:

 

 

 

 

[Jay 46,245]

The character's name is Tintin, not Tin Tin

[bruce marshall 1,988]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

The character's name is Tintin, not Tintin

Who cares?

The film was horrible!

[Jay 46,245]

I am sure Hergé cares.

[bruce marshall 1,988]

1 minute ago, Jay said:

I am sure Hergé cares.

The guy who played Nick N😉ack

in MWTGG?

[Jay 46,245]

No.

[Alex 3,147]

It’s also pronounced Tahn-Tahn, as I only found out when watching interviews with JW during scoring sessions!

[bruce marshall 1,988]

Ton- ton😜

[hornist 1,261]

11 hours ago, bruce marshall said:

Who cares?

The film was horrible!

 

What is the logic here? 

 

I find one composer horrible but I don't spell it zim mer. 

[Jay 46,245]

I am listening to Bruce Broughton's Lost In Space score from 1998, and I hear Ludlow's Demise motif in the track "Through The Planet", just one year after!

[Falstaft 2,241]

11 minutes ago, Jay said:

I am listening to Bruce Broughton's Lost In Space score from 1998, and I hear Ludlow's Demise motif in the track "Through The Planet", just one year after!

 

Wow, never noticed that before! Is this the part you're talking about?:

 

 

 

To be fair to Broughton, I think both he and Williams are ultimately deriving this kind of hectic string writing from Prokofiev's Scythian Suite, specifically this section:

 

 

 

[Jay 46,245]

The sound quality of that youtube video is poor, but i think that's the same track.  Its track 17 on the CD I was listening to

[Edmilson 12,380]

So Williams liked to use the same fanfare for different movies on the early 2000s?

 

 

 

[Jay 46,245]

Nah that was William Ross adapting his Clones score to fit HP2

 

EDIT: Looked too quickly and thought it was another HPCOS Quidditch = AOTC Coruscant Chase post, nevermind

[Ricardo Mortimer 43]

On 6/13/2020 at 12:28 AM, Jay said:

 

 

The Lost World was Williams best action score. I'm not surprised that he still using model cue for action music until today.

[Remco 721]

On 7/13/2020 at 10:24 PM, Jay said:

Nah that was William Ross adapting his Clones score to fit HP2

Somebody on this forum came to the conclusion that JW pulled a Horner on that cue. I’d like to believe that, because the difference in the details are just too big for it to be merely ‘adapted’. If the score is, like Ross claims, 100% Williams than Ross couldn’t have done that cue. 

[Drew 597]

This might be JW's most-recycled motif.

 

[bruce marshall 1,988]

A recent revisit of RAIDERS..

 

" Marian's Theme" " sounds like The ESB themes for Yoda and Han and Leia!

[Bellosh 4,531]

:38-:48 'Growing Up' - Superman

 

 

 

:00-:10 'Landspeeder Search / Attack of the Sand People' - A New Hope

 

 

[bruce marshall 1,988]

Good one. It's only the rhythm though, which technically isn't copyrightable😁

Thank God No one started a " self-plaigarism " thread about Philip Glass!

 

😆

 

 

The main titles for SW and SUPERMAN use The exact same song based structure.

Intro

A, B

Bridge , chorus etc