The Official Indiana Jones Pitch Correction thread

[Delorean90 42]

The tapes were played back at the wrong speed, which affects the pitch of the entire recording, so that the music is not in the key in which it was originally recorded. To hear the problem, listen to the DCC "The Map Room: Dawn," and then the corresponding Concord track.

[filmmusic 1,829]

yes, i understand that this is the problem. But i don't see it!

I mean when people were talking about it I thought that it would be a tremendous difference.

that a piece in C minor would sound like C#minor.

But it's not even a quarter of semitone..

Did you listen to that file i posted in sendspace?

the notes of the melody are sol-fa#-do, sol-fa#-do etc..

I play on top with my midi keyboard and i can't hear any pitch error.

[Delorean90 42]

I did listen to your file. Have you compared the 1996 DCC release with the Concord? The big trumpet note at 1:43 is a good point of comparison. I don't think you do understand the problem, though. The sequence of notes is not what is changed here, so the solfege/intervallic relationships within the track are not the issue; they are still intact. The whole track is shifted from the pitches that the orchestra actually played in the studio during the sessions.

[filmmusic 1,829]

Delorean I understand. I am a musician!

what i wanted to show is that the C in my keyboard is still C in the music.

The F# in the keyboard is still F# in the music. (it's not F, and it's not G, and it's not something between F and G. I hear it still as an F#)

If the pitch in the music had changed, the C would sound a bit higher/or lower, and the same for all the notes.

yes, i compared the 2 versions. in comparison it shows that something might be wrong, but the difference is next to nothing.

[Delorean90 42]

If the playback speed error occurred the right way, then I don't see why the notes couldn't still be in tune. At least for that track, I don't think anyone's arguing that it's out of tune. It's simply not the key that was played and recorded originally. The difference is pretty noticeable between the two releases for that track. I'd have to go back to the tracks to find what the actual shift is, but it's definitely noticeable. You should be able to hear the difference in timbre, too, from the artificial shift.

[Jay 37,369]

Delorean90 is right. filmusic, compare a track from the Concord to a track from the DCC and you will hear a difference. The Concord disc is messed up.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

On 12/13/2008 at 7:51 PM, Marian Schedenig said:

 

We need a HDR version of this meme.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

You could have upped more.

[thx99 1,740]

Because this got bumped up, I'm bored, and I like the techie stuff, here is the math behind semitones, cents, and transposition ratio, as well as a solution for converting between semitones/cents and the transposition ratio...

 

There are 12 semitones in an octave (i.e., halving or doubling of frequency).  To double the frequency of a tone or shift upward an octave (thereby cutting the length in half), you apply +12 semitones.  To cut the frequency in half or shift downward an octave (thereby doubling the length), you apply -12 semitones.  "Cents" are hundredths of semitones (e.g., -8.7 cents = -0.087 semitones).

 

Here's the equation for determining the output frequency based on an input frequency and number of semitones:

F₁ = output frequency

F₀ = input frequency

n = # of semitones

 

For n = +12, 2 raised to the power of (12/12) or 1 equals 2.  So the output frequency is twice that of the input frequency.  You have shifted the frequency upward one octave or doubled it.  For n = (-12), 2 raised to the power of (-1) equals 0.5; the output frequency is half that of the input frequency (downward one octave).

 

If you divide both sides by F₀, you get the following:

The ratio of F₁/F₀ is referred to as the "Transposition ratio" in Sound Forge, "Speed Multiplier" in Audacity, and "Ratio" in Audition, as seen in the screen caps below in the spoiler.  A few notes about the different programs:

• Sound Forge asks the user to enter the number of "Semitones to shift pitch by" and "Cents to shift pitch by" and allows for tenths of "Cents" to be entered (i.e., thousandths of semitones).  The "Transposition ratio" is automatically calculated based on the values entered for semitones and cents.
• Audacity asks that the user enter a "Speed Multiplier" value and does not provide the equivalent semitone and cents values.  Hence, the comments above for needing to convert between semitones/cents and the "Speed Multiplier" value (see below and attached spreadsheet).  The "Speed Multiplier" value is limited to the thousandths, meaning less precision than Sound Forge.
• Audition (like Sound Forge) asks the user to enter either the number of "Semi-tones" and "Cents" OR the "Ratio" directly.  You'll note that "Cents" appears to be limited to whole numbers, BUT you can enter a decimal value and get seemingly more precise "Ratio" values (out to the ten thousandths).  Also, the "Ratio" directly allows values out to the ten thousandths, but if you enter another digit, if will automatically round to the ten thousandths.

 

Spoiler

Sound Forge, "Pitch Shift" process:

 

Audacity, "Change Speed" process:

 

Audition, "Pitch Shifter" process:

 

 

For converting the semitones/cents values to Transposition ratio/Speed Multiplier/Ratio, I've attached a small spreadsheet.  Simply enter the semitone and cents values and the spreadsheet will do the calculation.  Make sure to include the negative sign, as appropriate.  Here's a sample of what the spreadsheet looks like for the first track of RotLA, which needs a shift of -8.7 cents according to a post on the first page of this thread:

 

Enter that calculated value into whichever software doesn't accept semitones and cents, and you should be good to go!

 

Convert semitones & cents to transposition ratio.xlsx

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Quality post right there!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Could we get a shot of the gate spinning?

[Davide Leo 0]

On 27/02/2011 at 8:21 AM, fommes said:

Here it is. I got these numbers by very detailed comparison of the waveforms of the track vs a DVD-rip in Audacity (not by listening to pitch, as my ears aren't good enough for that). Some of the results are mathematical and very precise, but others (if there were many SFX in the DVD-rip) were a bit less precise with more guess- and listening work involved. I also concentrated on either the beginning or ending of the tracks, as those were the ones that had to mix well with other tracks. I've always suspected that there was wandering pitch in some tracks, hence that decision. Watch out for the + and - signs.

The album tracks are of course 100% precise.

Indy Negotiates = ok

The Brawl = ok

Fast Streets of Shanghai: -0,264

Out of Fuel a bit slower than in the film, but nearly impossible to say how much

Slalom: -0,258

The Old Priest’s Tale: +1,849

Short Round’s Theme: -0,272

The Scroll = ok

The Secret Passage = ok

Nocturnal Activities: -0,264

Bug Tunnel & Death Trap: -0,249

The Temple of Doom: -0,243

Children in Chains: -0,294

Short Round Escapes: pretty much ok, perhaps a bit too fast.

Saving Willie: last part approx.: +2,242

Slave Children’s Crusade: -0,258

Short Round Helps: + 1,277

Mine Car Chase: -0,247

Water! end part comparison with DVD rip: + 1,621

Sword Trick: + 1,078

British Relief was very difficult to determine, I think I took the average (1,5) of two attempts: + 2,034 and 1,085. If anyone has a better number, please share it.

Return to the Village: 1,244 (that's a definite number for the opening; but I'm not sure about the second part)

End Credits: -0,239

If you use the Royal Philharmonic Orchestra version for the End Credits opening: tempo change (in this case not pitch of course! only tempo) for that track is 3,209.

Hi! I'm assembling an album based on your corrections. Can you please specify what do you mean with last part in Saving Willie and Water!; at which playing time do I have to start the speed change? I'm also wandering if with "The OId Priest's Tale" and British Relief" correction you mean the corrections of the whole tracks from the concord album "Indy and the villagers" and "The Broken Bridge / British Relief". Thank you very much in advantage for your help.

[Demodex 557]

This is the thread where I learned you are all weirdos. The new discs sounded fine. 

[Archive Collection 214]

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

This is the thread where I learned you are all weirdos. The new discs sounded fine. 

 

They don't sound bad, but their sounding pitch/speed is different from the one that it was recorded at... which is a technical error, and something which should have been fixed before the release.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

Alright, this is what I don't understand here.

 

There are people who don't notice the pitch/speed issues in the Concord release.  That's fair and valid.

 

But if a faneditor is able to notice the consistent, demonstrable speed imperfections in a release that other fans can't, and is then able to correct them by themselves for their own listening pleasure...  then why the hell is that a problem for those other fans?  Surely it wouldn't affect them in any way, right?

[Demodex 557]

No, we just don't understand why you would go through that much trouble to fix what isn't broken. 

[Holko 9,526]

It is broken.

[Demodex 557]

Not to me. I'm glad I can't tell the difference.  

 

That's all I have to say. 

[Jay 37,369]

It's not a case of fixing what isn't broken, it's a case of fixing a technical issue you don't personally care about.  Which is perfectly fine.  Shitting on others for wanting to do so is what's weird.

[Bellosh 3,419]

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

Not to me. I'm glad I can't tell the difference.  

 

You will once MM gets his hands on these

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

19 minutes ago, Bellosh said:

 

You will if MM's granddaughter gets her hands on these

 

Fixed

[Brónach 1,302]

his apprentices need to be trained

[Brando 1,864]

 

On 24/07/2023 at 10:56 AM, Jurassic Shark said:

On 24/07/2023 at 10:53 AM, Bellosh said:

You will if MM's goddaughter gets her hands on these

 

Fixed

Fixed

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

13 hours ago, Brando said:

On 24/07/2023 at 7:56 AM, Jurassic Shark said:

On 24/07/2023 at 7:53 AM, Bellosh said:

 

You will if MM's mildly related acquaintance gets her hands on these

 

Fixed

 

Fixed

 

Fixed

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

On 24/7/2023 at 8:57 AM, Brónach said:

his apprentices need to be trained

How do I become Mike Matessino’s apprentice?

[Brónach 1,302]

8 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

How do I become Mike Matessino’s apprentice?

 

After getting his face cleaned of lipstick, Mike Matessino tells you that when the pitch is high it's interesting, when it's low it's interesting, and when it's in the middle it's boring as shit. Then he tells you to get the fuck out of his office.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I feel like I've gone on a profound spiritual journey.

[fommes 153]

On 21/07/2023 at 8:52 PM, Davide Leo said:

Hi! I'm assembling an album based on your corrections. Can you please specify what do you mean with last part in Saving Willie and Water!; at which playing time do I have to start the speed change? I'm also wandering if with "The OId Priest's Tale" and British Relief" correction you mean the corrections of the whole tracks from the concord album "Indy and the villagers" and "The Broken Bridge / British Relief". Thank you very much in advantage for your help.

This was an attempt to try and pitchcorrect some of the cues but bear in mind that this was far from perfect; the method certainly wasn't flawless as you can see from a number of the tracks.

 

Ideally, somebody with pitchperfect hearing (which I haven't) would post the correct pitch change corrections!