GAME OF THRONES

[oierem 152]

On 4/5/2016 at 7:58 PM, Jay said:

 

 

OK, that's a valid explanation for why the showrunners might haven chosen to keep Balon alive as long as they did.  BUT perhaps it would have made sense to show us the Greyjoy storyline they're showing us now this season in Season 5 instead, replacing the Dorne storyline entirely?  Because so far, that storyline has had no impact on anything other than a way to off Jamie and Cercei's daughter.

 

Not doing the Greyjoy storyline until season 6 allows them to

1) Have Theon (a major character) involved in it, and

2) Create a whole story-arc for the season (the Kingsmoot is not the climax of the storyline)

 

Last year's "Dorne" storyline was actually Jaime's storyline. The dornish characters were not relevant, they were there to tell Jaime's personal story (about him trying to make things better). And it was logical to send him to Dorne (although it was a late decission by the writers) since it ties the storyline with his daughter and her death.

If you don't have Dorne, what's Jaime's role in season 5?

[Jay 37,373]

Well that's their problem to solve, not mine

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The short scene where Jon Snow and Sansa see each other for the first time in what feels like years, and hug.

 

The first genuinely warm scene in a long time. I was sure there was gonna be another near miss.

[Jay 37,373]

This show is great, I've meant to write about each episode here but have no time these days.

 

Sansa and Jon's reunion was great, the best thing to happen to the Starks since the show began.  Loved that Brienne got to speak about Stannis and Renly to Davos and Melisandre too.

 

Sad that Osha died, she should have realized what was up.

 

I think the Umbers didn't actually betray the Starks for the Boltons, and they will assist when Jon & Sansa muster them to fight the Boltons at Winterfell along with Littlefinger and his Vale army

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Ep 4 is awesome. Finally something good happening for the Starks. Jon seemingly leaving the Wall.

And the Deanerys ending is excellent.

 

They seem to be building to things with a greater pace then usual for the show. I hope the pay-off will be good.

 

Interesting how the first few eps were quite busy undoing a lot of the cliffhangers of last season. Jon is alive again, Arya got her sight back, Theon and Sansa arent dead etc etc.

 

Jonathan Pryce is excellent as the High Sparrow and already got a few great scenes where he shows he's a true believer in what he does. But also extremely dangerous because of that.

[crocodile 8,019]

It's looking like the storylines start to converge. Good.

 

But I have to say I'm watching all of this with middling interest at this point. Think I'm over it.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I had that last season. But things do seem to have picked up now that they no longer have to follow the books.

[crocodile 8,019]

Think I don't like is that you have so many storylines in one episode now. I understand why they're doing it but it seems like they're all poorly structured. Or not structured at all. I like things to beginning middle and end. You know, episodes that tell some sort of self-contained portion of a story. Great shows do that. With GOT, it's now just a 4-episode (so far) montage.

 

Karol

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Hasnt that always been the case with GOT though? I agree that it's frustrating that you sometimes get only a single scene from a particular story line. But I'm hoping once the show draws to a close that "fractured" nature will actually help in creating a felling that something big is drawing near.

 

GOT has never been a great show. But it's has had many great episodes and great moments. I hope this season will have more then the last.

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Sansa and Jon's reunion was great, the best thing to happen to the Starks since the show began.

 

Like I said, that scene genuinely made me happy.

Also, Sansa seems to be finally taking charge of her destiny instead of being tossed around like a rag doll.

[Jay 37,373]

Years from now when one watches all 8 seasons binge-style, the fact that certain characters disappear for stretches of episodes won't really matter as much

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

3 minutes ago, crocodile said:

...it seems like they're all poorly structured. Or not structured at all.

 

On the contrary! They're very carefully structured - but not into self-contained portions as you'd like. Personally, I don't have a problem with that. Game of Thrones doesn't even really divide up into self-contained seasons the way most series do; I can't think of any other (multi-season) programme that has the feeling of being one huge unit in the way that it does.

 

I do agree that they could skip around less per episode, especially now that it's certain the scenes can't be occurring in chronological order. For example, King's Landing and Meereen have featured in every episode so far, when perhaps they could have been divided across two episodes each.

[Jay 37,373]

Yea the chronology is all over the place.

 

We've now seen 3 days in Castle since the stabbing, yet it seems Arya has received months of training since being blinded in the same episode that Jon was stabbed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Lol cool!

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

If I had the requisite hardware and software, I'd edit the whole thing into mega-episodes of four episodes each (perhaps with an intermission in the middle). It's surprising how felicitously a lot of things seem to work out with that grouping (even for those which split across two seasons), and every storyline gets a decent amount of progression in each part.

 

33 minutes ago, Jay said:

We've now seen 3 days in Castle since the stabbing, yet it seems Arya has received months of training since being blinded in the same episode that Jon was stabbed.

 

Yeah, and there's no way Jaime could have travelled from Dorne to King's Landing in the time that he appeared to have given the show's ordering of scenes. Or Theon to the Iron Islands for that matter...

 

37 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I was recently thinking how reminiscent the cruel tutelage of Jaqen H'ghar was...

[Jay 37,373]

[KK 3,307]

9 hours ago, crocodile said:

But I have to say I'm watching all of this with middling interest at this point. Think I'm over it.

 

Karol

 

This was me at the beginning of the season. But this episode has finally really peaked my interested. Now that the bigger pieces are coming together, I look forward to seeing where it all goes.

[Incanus 5,716]

Dany getting out of trouble was more speedy (and welcome!) than anticipated and I am glad if they can speed her journey even more in the future so she'll eventually end up on Westeros.

 

Jon's and Sansa's reunion was indeed one of the warmest scenes in a long time and you can really feel the significance of it, essentially the "good" characters we have watched from the start finally coming together after so much hardship and suffering. I also liked how Sansa is finally showing some surprising maturity and courage after being a pawn for so long.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

44 minutes ago, Incanus said:

Dany getting out of trouble was more speedy (and welcome!) than anticipated

 

Yes, traditionally that would have dragged on for another 4 eps at least.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

55 minutes ago, Incanus said:

I also liked how Sansa is finally showing some surprising maturity and courage after being a pawn for so long.

 

The scene where she tells Jon they have to take back Winterfell gave me a real Robb/Catelyn Stark feel.

[Incanus 5,716]

2 hours ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

 

The scene where she tells Jon they have to take back Winterfell gave me a real Robb/Catelyn Stark feel.

Exactly! Winter is coming!

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

I felt like we hadn't heard the Stark's theme in years when Sansa and Jon hugged.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

There's a Stark theme?

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

 

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

It's by no means a masterpiece, but it's recognizable.

[mstrox 6,651]

I wasn't aware that there was any music to speak of on this show

[Jay 37,373]

There really isn't, sadly.

 

 

(Apart from the main title music, which truly is brilliant and iconic and perfect for the show - one of the all time greats!)

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

There's a bit more going on with the music than it gets credit for (not a great deal, but a bit). Most of the main houses/institutions have themes with recognisable motivic connections between them. There's also a clear duality between the Ice and Fire motives; I look forward to hearing them come face to face.

[Bilbo 3,709]

Djwadi can write a good theme. There are loads of great ones in GoT. He just hasn't a clue what to do with them once written.

[Jay 37,373]

Luckily, the fact that the music on the show does nothing for me doesn't really deter me from loving the show at all.  It's more of a missed opportunity than anything that takes away from the show's greatness.

 

Hopefully when we finally get to the really really big climax the show is sure to have, a real orchestra will be used then.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I think once the show is finished you can probably cut a nice 80 minute compilation CD containing all the good stuff.

[Jay 37,373]

Yes, I think so too.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

Aw come on, this is a good theme! - probably the only one that sounds medieval-ish

 

 

[Jay 37,373]

I just had a thought.

 

Ramsay killed Roose's wife Walda, who was one of Walder Frey's daughters - not to mention her baby, which is another Frey by lineage.  Could the North get the Freys on their site to help attack Winterfell?  Actually, nevermind, all the Freys have is a strategic position, not some kind of army.

 

Well, maybe they'll come in useful one last time before the story is over.

[KK 3,307]

11 hours ago, Incanus said:

Dany getting out of trouble was more speedy (and welcome!) than anticipated and I am glad if they can speed her journey even more in the future so she'll eventually end up on Westeros.

 

Jon's and Sansa's reunion was indeed one of the warmest scenes in a long time and you can really feel the significance of it, essentially the "good" characters we have watched from the start finally coming together after so much hardship and suffering. I also liked how Sansa is finally showing some surprising maturity and courage after being a pawn for so long.

 

Yes, and something about that Dany resolution seemed awfully familiar. But I'm just glad that wasn't going to be dragged out for the whole season.

 

Jon and Sansa's moment was definitely one of the highlights of the show. After the last episode, I was so sure they were just going to "miss" each other again. 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It was essentially a redo of the finale of S1. But with the Khaleesi fully in charge of her own destiny. 

 

Its certainly a nice reminder that even without dragons, she is fierce.

 

I also liked the Mereen scenes. Tyrion's usual diplomatic touch doesn't seem as convincing in Slavers Bay. Because he doesn't have much status and even those he represents don't trudt him.

 

We have seen both characters do these things before. But the details are interestingly different  

 

Also, the usually pragmatic Oleanna when she learns her grandaughter will take the walk of shame. "This must not happen. This WILL not happen!"

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

Here's a theme whose return I was glad to hear this season after (I think) a few years' absence. It brings a sense of nostalgic mystery to the happenings in the far north.

 

 

 

Another theme (or variant) with a lot of potential that I'd like to hear developed in some way is this one - it's only appeared three times so far, to my knowledge, always seemingly associated with Stark resilience. Surely it must be due a comeback...

 

 

[Jay 37,373]

 

Here's a theory:  What if the "secret" that the High Sparrow told Tommen, that he then told Cersei, wasn't simply that Margaery was going to be doing her walk of shame... but that the Tyrells were behind the poisoning of Joffrey?  (IE, that Margaery confessed to it off-screen at some point during her imprisonment)  That would explain Cersei marching in with her new plan to "save Margaery" from the walk; could actually be a setup to have her killed while looking like a rescue.

[MedigoScan 324]

There's plenty of themes in the show

but the only ones people would probably pick up on are the Lannister/Baratheon/Danaerys/Lord of Light themes (and maybe the Greyjoy theme that they trot every time someone needs a head chopped off)

the rest get used sparingly, but there are nice pieces among them

[Bilbo 3,709]

I think the Greyjoy theme being used as a head chopping off theme is supposed to be a hubris theme. Every time it;s used for an execution the executioner ends up getting their arse handed to them later in that season. 

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

26 minutes ago, Jay said:

Here's a theory:  What if the "secret" that the High Sparrow told Tommen, that he then told Cersei, wasn't simply that Margaery was going to be doing her walk of shame... but that the Tyrells were behind the poisoning of Joffrey?  (IE, that Margaery confessed to it off-screen at some point during her imprisonment)  That would explain Cersei marching in with her new plan to "save Margaery" from the walk; could actually be a setup to have her killed while looking like a rescue.

 

She did say to Tommen "You know as well as I do who would be the first casualty of that war" when he suggested going to war with the Sparrows before, so there's definitely something dodgy about her advocating that course of action now.

 

If Margaery's death is a reasonably reliable outcome of such an attack, though, then why would the others be willing to go along with it? I guess Olenna's declaration "That cannot happen! That will not happen!" concerning a walk of atonement could be used to justify their taking the risk.

 

One might also wonder why Cersei didn't just offer her misinformation without having to be prompted by whatever Tommen told her. Spurred on by anger at the revelation of Joffrey's murderer, perhaps?

 

Maybe Cersei wants to have Margaery sprung from prison so she can personally have her murdered in revenge for Joffrey.

[Jay 37,373]

The question would be: Why couldn't we the audience see what Sparrow->Tommen->Cercei secret was?  That's why I think it was just that "Margaery will do the walk soon".  If the High Sparrow told Tommen "your wife killed your brother!", I don't think he'd be as interested in breaking her out of there as he seems to be.

 

[Demodex 557]

How would the High Sparrow know Who killed Joffrey?  I call BS on this. 

[Glóin the Dark 1,223]

25 minutes ago, Jay said:

The question would be: Why couldn't we the audience see what Sparrow->Tommen->Cercei secret was?  That's why I think it was just that "Margaery will do the walk soon".  If the High Sparrow told Tommen "your wife killed your brother!", I don't think he'd be as interested in breaking her out of there as he seems to be.

 

I dunno...he didn't like Joffrey and admitted to Margaery that he didn't feel any guilt over becoming king because of Joffrey's death. Learning that his in-laws were involved might make him feel somewhat conflicted, but it's hard to see it resulting in apathy towards Margaery's situation.

 

It's also worth remembering that Margaery wasn't involved in the murder and didn't know about it until afterwards!

 

6 minutes ago, Demodex said:

How would the High Sparrow know Who killed Joffrey?  I call BS on this. 

 

The three possibilities I can think of:

• Loras giving something away under duress (though I would be doubtful about Loras having any knowledge of the plot).
• Margaery giving something away as part of a deliberate scheme (I wouldn't entirely put it past her to rat on her grandmother if it was to her personal advantage).
• Littlefinger having been up to Littlefingery things; Olenna threatened him last time they spoke, after all!

[Jay 37,373]

13 minutes ago, Demodex said:

How would the High Sparrow know Who killed Joffrey?  I call BS on this. 

 

1 hour ago, Jay said:

 

Here's a theory:  What if the "secret" that the High Sparrow told Tommen, that he then told Cersei, wasn't simply that Margaery was going to be doing her walk of shame... but that the Tyrells were behind the poisoning of Joffrey? (IE, that Margaery confessed to it off-screen at some point during her imprisonment) That would explain Cersei marching in with her new plan to "save Margaery" from the walk; could actually be a setup to have her killed while looking like a rescue.

 

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

It's incredible how much they've quickened the pace of this show now that it's off-book.  All the better.  The Night's King is coming?  Oh, never mind, the Night's King is fucking here.

 

I don't know, it's certainly strange to suddenly see the show so fully veer into the supernatural stuff, even though it's what I've been waiting for all these years.  I guess we'll get used to it.

 

And how great to see a Jack Bender episode!  Guy is a legend.  He made that episode an exceptional one in this series.

[Jay 37,373]

Sophie Turner wants Sansa and Margaery Tyrell.to end up together

 

 

A ridiculous idea

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

HODOR!!!!

 

Very good and surprisingly fast paced episode. The only part that dragged a bit was the Braavos stuff.

Deanery's goodbye and final command to Jorah was moving. I wonder where fate will take him next.

The meeting between Tyrion, Vary and the priestress was good too. I liked how the cynical Varys was put in his place. Though after the Sparrows one has to be cautious about getting into bed with these cults.

Even the Ironborn plot was interesting and quick footed. Finally Theon is worthwhile again.

 

Sansa is really developing into a younger version of her mother. Her confrontation with Littlefinger shows that's she's no longer a trusting little girl. Though even distrust isnt a safeguerd against Petyr.

 

The final scenes are exciting and tragic. Not an all out battle like Hardhome, but it does bring the White Walker threat on the very doorstep of Westeros. And the Hodor revelation is extremely moving.

 

I get the distinct impression that the showrunners must in some way be unshackled by the fact that they are running in front of Martin. And can now kinda do things their own way.

They faithfully followed Martin when he killed Jon Snow. But the fast way they ressurected him and the fact that he seems to be, for the most part himself tells me that liked him just the way he is. Same for the way Arya got her sight back.

[Incanus 5,716]

Episode 5

 

Hodor.

 

This was a fast flowing episode if there ever was one. Director Jack Bender did a great job with this script which was extremely tight but packed with wonderful emotional moments. I thought the Iain Glen/Emily Clarke moment was heart wrenching and the whole finale superbly tense and tragic at the same time. And I have to say that I like that the "mythos" element of the supernatural is no longer on the fringes of the story but has landed right dead center of the plot even though the main element of the story still is the great houses vying for power. And I still think the Others/White Walkers and their undead hosts have been realized with brilliant chillingness enhanced immensely by the fact they do not utter a sound. I was left wondering if the horrifying truth about their origin is going to be the same in the novels as well. It was almost off-handedly dropped here on the audience but it sort of makes twisted sense.

 

And yes I agree with Stefan. Seems that some kind of flood gates have been opened with the show now that the series is on its own in terms of the plot. While they always forged their own path even when it was following Martin's story more closely there is more of a sense that the series is now doing things in its own terms and pace.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

How did Littlefinger get from the Vale to a town very near Castle Black in apparently a very short time though?

[Incanus 5,716]

1 hour ago, Stefancos said:

How did Littlefinger get from the Vale to a town very near Castle Black in apparently a very short time though?

It's Littlefinger magic! He is always precisely where he means to.