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La-La Land Records' HOOK (2CD Expanded) Anticipation thread


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La La Land Records = Label of the Year 2012. Everyone else, just pack it up. Nothing more to see here. WOW!!!!!

This is mostly for posterity but for those looking through old threads on this score, if you are looking for the 2012 Tim Burden Movie Magic Hook Special in which he talks with the boys at LaLa

No question of missing out on this release, definitely no. I will get it in any case. Still I bet there would have been cries of injustice if Back to the Future or ID 4 or some other holy grails would have been "listening experienced" for our pleasure.

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Trust me, I am getting this no matter what but this is why I always want C&C releases because while there might be stuff that people think could crap left off ... everyone might have a different opinion of what that might be.

Still, when John Williams wants something left off, I am sure the labels would always be hesitant to do otherwise, even if contractually they could.

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The Concorde Hook boot sounds pretty poor though. I haven't played it since I first got it about 13 years ago, but I remember from the very first minute thinking that the bass drum was distorting horribly in the prologue, and then noticing every distorted peak from then on. Poorly compressed, perhaps?

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I'm going to guess the first part of The Stories Are True. Maybe that bit of Hook's entrance cue that reprises material from Hook-Napped.

Good call on "The Stories Are True." What is the second bit you're referring to, though?

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My only fear was that some themes would be overplayed, and it seems Williams agrees with me here. While I wish the complete score was available for those that want it, I'm fine with Williams tinkering with some of the repetitive stuff (at least, one principal. If he deletes anything worthwhile I'll be upset).

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Anybody here speak French? I know a bit, but not enough to decipher a questionable translation. What is the meaning of the word "ton" in the following passage? JWFan translates it as "tune," FreeTranslation.com translates it as "tune," but neither meanings seem quite right.

"Il a fait quelques suggestions, il a demandé que certains morceaux qui étaient répétitifs soient éliminés, il a exclu des morceaux qui n’étaient pas dans le ton comme Take Me Out To The Ballgame… Bref, il a recréé la bande sonore telle qu’on l’entend sur ce double disque."

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I know some French myself (yay Canada!) but considering its a second language to me, I'm not sure if I'm the most reliable source. From what I can figure, that quote is suggesting its "not in tune" like the specified song, but I'm not sure if it works to your expectations...

Hopefully that was of some help...most likely it wasn't though :D

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Why wouldn't it make sense? Maybe the band that performed the song in the movie played it off key, but under the crowd noise and dialogue, you couldn't tell. Maybe one or more of the instruments were off pitch, and the recording can't be fixed. Or maybe it was recorded to an inferior method (i.e. tape), which has decayed, leaving the music warbling.

It's only "Take Me Out to the Ballgame," for fuck's sake. If anyone really needs that song, rip it off a children's music album, watch YouTube, or go to a frikkin' game as summer approaches.

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So it's literally out of tune? That doesn't make sense, as the passage says "Williams eliminated cues such as Ballgame that were "not in tune""...doesn't that mean there were more than one cues that weren't in tune? Seems unlikely. Either that's poor wording on the Frenchman's part, or a translation error on the suggestion that there are more than one out of tune cues.

I don't care about Ballgame, but if we figure out why Williams selected against this cue we may be able to anticipate what other cues he eliminated.

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I'm going to guess the first part of The Stories Are True. Maybe that bit of Hook's entrance cue that reprises material from Hook-Napped.

Good call on "The Stories Are True." What is the second bit you're referring to, though?

I can't give exact times (I deleted my boot a while back), but it's the track after Pirate Town / Presenting The Hook. Fairly early in the track (but after the point where it's faded out in the film), you can hear those dramatic ascending/descending strings from Hook-Napped. I don't know if he'd delete those bars (or God forbid, the whole track) for that, but it's a possibility.

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I don't know why people even care if "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" isn't going to be on the album. It's just source music that I am sure is available on other CDs or whatever.

It's possible that the main score itself will be left alone.

I think it maybe safe to assume the film version for "Banning Back Home" will be on this release but not the album version as an alternate. That could be what they meant by being "repetitive".

Either way if all goes well I should have my copy from LLL on the 30th or 31st.

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maybe its 'out of tone' instead of 'tune' as in it does not blend into the score well (like yuppie sounds...)

SO MR. why did you fucking included tinker tin on the OST?!?!?!?!? ;)

BTW, with this news: Fuck, fuck, fuck fuck.

I'll still buy it. but i was expecting a definitive release.

Anyway if this was sony, people would be already talking about boiccoting the release, am i wrong?

Nope, of course.

I think it maybe safe to assume the film version for "Banning Back Home" will be on this release but not the album version as an alternate. That could be what they meant by being "repetitive".

not really. The score is lushly thematical with countless of repetitions of the same material. Expect the worse (as mentioned the stories are true (part I or II) could have been completely obliterated just for that.

And expecting the worse...we may still be pleasantly surprised...

But williams choices have been dissapointing in the past, we all know that. :(

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maybe its 'out of tone' instead of 'tune' as in it does not blend into the score well (like yuppie sounds...)

Exactly. It means it was not in the same vein as the rest of the music (just like the "Banning Back Home" people were complaining about on the previous page).

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I don't know why people even care if "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" isn't going to be on the album. It's just source music that I am sure is available on other CDs or whatever.

Like the last time you complained about people complaining, nobody is complaining that Ballgame won't be on the release...

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Hello Friends,

I'm a new member from the UK, thrilled enough by the prospect of a rounded, expanded release of Hook to actually get off my ass (or 'arse' as we say over here) and join this forum.

I've been a dedicated JW fan for 36 years now; and while I'm not one of those who has to have absolutely every second of any given score before I'm satisfied, I can certainly understand those who are - after all, we're lucky enough to be living right slap bang in the Williams era, so why wouldn't we want to soak up every note that we can?

That said, I find it strange that some posters are expressing their disappointment in Mr Williams' involvement in this release, and his requests to withhold certain cues. This is his work, after all! As a creative artist, he has every right, I believe, to ask for his work to be presented in a way that reflects his wishes.However much we might want lock, stock and barrel, it's not up to us. We might not agree with his choices, but we have to respect them. Really, after all the years of pleasure he's given us, doesn't he deserve that?

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For the same reason you complain about missing a few seconds from The Matrix, Stargate, and the choir from Star Trek 2009.

That isn't a very good example as that's different. Those complaints are valid as it was actual music from the score itself that was left off those releases. "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" is source music, not the actual damn score.

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For the same reason you complain about missing a few seconds from The Matrix, Stargate, and the choir from Star Trek 2009.

That isn't a very good example as that's different. Those complaints are valid as it was actual music from the score itself that was left off those releases. "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" is source music, not the actual damn score.

That doesn't mean it's worse. Would you be okay with a Star Wars release that didn't include Cantina Band? Music is music, and good music is good music.

I don't need every second of music, but I don't fault those that want exactly that.

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That said, I find it strange that some posters are expressing their disappointment in Mr Williams' involvement in this release, and his requests to withhold certain cues. This is his work, after all! As a creative artist, he has every right, I believe, to ask for his work to be presented in a way that reflects his wishes.However much we might want lock, stock and barrel, it's not up to us. We might not agree with his choices, but we have to respect them. Really, after all the years of pleasure he's given us, doesn't he deserve that?

the thing is williams has a 'wicked' sense of humility that makes him embarrased when he revisits his works. He is completely wrong, though...

So, George Lucas is completely entitled to what he does with the SW films, then? Or some 'common good' preservation should be applied?

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Artistic works are very personal. If you made something and you don't want the public to have it in a certain format, you have every right to deny them that.

It's still perfectly okay as a fan to desire the extra music, unedited cues, etc. But the composer does not have an obligation to provide something that might embarrass or dissatisfy him/her.

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For the same reason you complain about missing a few seconds from The Matrix, Stargate, and the choir from Star Trek 2009.

That isn't a very good example as that's different. Those complaints are valid as it was actual music from the score itself that was left off those releases. "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" is source music, not the actual damn score.

Trent... 'Take me out' is one of the out of tone cues. the repetitive cues must be part of the score.

BTW you already were telling people not to complain for missing SCORE cues before 'take me out' was mentioned...

Look, everyone has their favorite scores ,and everyone wants them complete. It's a legit sentiment, and we can complain since we pay for it. If it was free then we couldnt.

PD: This also can mean that there is not going to be alternate extended (or short) versions of some tracks that had them....

What it said is that they had the complete score master tapes , put it on the disks, then Williams removed some cues

the sensible thing from LLL to do now would be (anonymously) mistakenly drop these cues on the net somehow...

Artistic works are very personal. If you made something and you don't want the public to have it in a certain format, you have every right to deny them that.

It's still perfectly okay as a fan to desire the extra music, unedited cues, etc. But the composer does not have an obligation to provide something that might embarrass or dissatisfy him/her.

If it was in the film....its public...already so everyone knows...

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That said, I find it strange that some posters are expressing their disappointment in Mr Williams' involvement in this release, and his requests to withhold certain cues. This is his work, after all! As a creative artist, he has every right, I believe, to ask for his work to be presented in a way that reflects his wishes.However much we might want lock, stock and barrel, it's not up to us. We might not agree with his choices, but we have to respect them. Really, after all the years of pleasure he's given us, doesn't he deserve that?

the thing is williams has a 'wicked' sense of humility that makes him embarrased when he revisits his works. He is completely wrong, though...

So, George Lucas is completely entitled to what he does with the SW films, then? Or some 'common good' preservation should be applied?

If he's embarrassed, he's embarrassed. I have to respect that.

Re Mr Lucas and SW - yes, he is entitled to do what he's done, of course, for the same reasons. I don't know how you'd begin to apply a 'common good' preservation - who would decide when it was to be invoked? No, I'm sure it has to be left to the artist.

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I for one I'm excited with Williams involvement with this release, as I was with Goldenthal's involvement in the Batman Forever 2 cd set. Williams is a great album producer, IMHO

Agreed. I'm very happy to see Williams involved, so these missing tracks seem like minor quibbles. Folks, we're getting a proper treatment of Hook...something we've been waiting for ages, something we thought would never come! I think we ought to be grateful that Williams is working with this release :P

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"Missing cues" isn't at all a minor quibble when the standards for every other composer releases is complete and chronological scores .Why do we Williams fans always get that shaft of a missed opportunity?:

Sounds like the Indy Box all over again. I bet that's what happened and Williams wanted to include even less music than Laurent Bouzereau managed to put in the set in the end

Williams removing full cues from the complete score is NOT GOOD, no matter how you look at it

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So worried about things being 5 cents out of tune. Poor guy... I'd pay double the price for an added 3rd disc. This is one of my Desert Island scores I think.

And Banning Back Home is a fabulous contrast... If he would have scored it completely orchestraly, perhaps the whole rest of the score would have to be Gruisin-esque... ;-P

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For the same reason you complain about missing a few seconds from The Matrix, Stargate, and the choir from Star Trek 2009.

That isn't a very good example as that's different. Those complaints are valid as it was actual music from the score itself that was left off those releases. "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" is source music, not the actual damn score.

Trent from what it says Williams has removed actual score cues, not just the source music like Take Me Out to the Ball Game. And your really the last person here who should be lecturing everyone else about accepting a Hook release with incomplete or missing cues.

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For the same reason you complain about missing a few seconds from The Matrix, Stargate, and the choir from Star Trek 2009.

That isn't a very good example as that's different. Those complaints are valid as it was actual music from the score itself that was left off those releases. "Take Me Out To The Ball Game" is source music, not the actual damn score.

Trent from what it says Williams has removed actual score cues, not just the source music like Take Me Out to the Ball Game. And your really the last person here who should be lecturing everyone else about accepting a Hook release with incomplete or missing cues.

QFT.

Whatever's removed, we'll live. The world will keep on spinning, and you'll still have 2 CDs of Hook music.

Oh, who am I kidding? It's the soundtrack apocalypse, the worst release ever, LLL should be ashamed of themselves, etc.

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Williams' involvement also seems rather haphazard when it comes to his music. Superman, 1941, The Fury, Family Plot etc. were complete and had apparently no input from Williams or even if they had nothing was changed. So why Hook, why Indy scores? Why does the composer feel the need to "rectify" the listening experience of his most expansive, sought-after and popular scores when it comes to the complete releases? This is a mystery of artist's modesty and personal perception of the work. Very understandable on the other hand, quite baffling on the other.

Hook has been one of my favourite Williams scores ever since I first heard it about 13 or 14 years ago. It also has been always on the top of my holy grail release list. When we have gotten such excellent releases from LLL, the most recent 1941, it set the hopes very high for a complete and comprehensive release of Hook. So it is quite natural for one to feel disappointed if some music you love and cherish will not be on the release. Life will go on, no one got killed (I hope) and we have no choice but to honor Williams' decision but we certainly do not have to agree blindly with it.

P.S. I wait with great anticipation what was included on the double CD and I hope Williams nixed only Smee's Plan, From Mermaids to Lost Boys, When You're Alone and Farewell to Neverland from it. ;)

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Williams' involvement also seems rather haphazard when it comes to his music. Superman, 1941, The Fury, Family Plot etc. were complete and had apparently no input from Williams or even if they had nothing was changed. So why Hook, why Indy scores?

Because he's probably much more sensitive to his work for Spielberg's films and how it's presented on disc (at least for certain titles).

I'm not worried AT ALL about Williams' involvement in this release. Sure, it will not be uber-complete release, but it's likely we'll have two full CDs with plenty of unreleased stuff. What probably is being left off are some alternates and maybe just a few short cues.

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