Arpy 4,145 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Rey's path was still open following TFA, there was still room to take her character down a darker route, but that would be too risky in a trilogy set upon not taking risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Not really. She's too good a person in The Force Awakens for me to believe she could go evil over the course of two two-hour movies. Besides, I think tragedy thrives on early setup and inevitability as opposed to being a surprise reserved to later chapter. Either you set-up a tragic arc in your first film, or you just don't go down that path. Anything else is going to feel unearned. And, again, its not a part Ridley seems too well equipped to play. Clearly, she was hired on her ability to exude goodness, which she does very well. Going into sequels with an already established cast, you need to use what you've got and play into their strengths. All the "Is Rey going to turn evil?" moments aren't well-performed by Ridley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 4 hours ago, Chen G. said: Not really. She's too good a person in The Force Awakens for me to believe she could go evil over the course of two two-hour movies. I see it 180 degrees to the opposite. People aren't evil by nature. People do evil things out of misguided convictions, and if you really go into psychology, people do evil things out of unwavering conviction to serve a good cause that justifies evil means. It's all over history. Rey conveys a deeply troubled character, and especially in ROS, I find her goody two shoe character unspeakably unconvincing and cringe, and she's very good in moments that she's angry. Whereas Driver is very good at acting the redeeming villain. It could have been a chance to do a real character study a la Anakin, only good, but instead they opted for the most superficial, inane story. Rey should have killed Palpatine, assumed his role, then Ben Solo should have killed Rey. That would have been satisfying. Fargo and A. A. Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 I don't think the Hero's Journey (good person goes on quest and returns home having changed) is more superficial than the tragic hero narrative (good person with a tragic flaw spirals into corruption and/or death). I like Rey's story in The Force Awakens, and would have enjoyed it if the sequels built off of it rather than teasing Rey going evil for some esoteric reason. Also, the morals of latter-day Star Wars according to which slaying the antagonist is somehow evil, is really twisted. If Rey would have killed Palpatine, she wouldn't be in the wrong to do so, any more than she was when she struck down Kylo. TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 There is no hero journey for Rey. She's a hero, and she goes on a journey, but she doesn't have a hero's journey. She doesn't display significant emotions for anyone. Kylo Ren's journey is far more interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted March 26, 2020 Share Posted March 26, 2020 Oh, I was fascinated by Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens. Possibly my favourite scene of the film, if not the trilogy, was the one that had him pray to Vader's helmet. And when he pushed himself into doing the thing that Vader couldn't bring himself to do - kill a member of his own family - I thought it was something out of a good old Aristotelian tragedy. Then came the redemption arc and ruined it. Its not really a tragedy if there's a redemption at its end. Plus, its the most morally-corrupt moment in the whole series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 7 hours ago, Chen G. said: Oh, I was fascinated by Kylo Ren in The Force Awakens. Possibly my favourite scene of the film, if not the trilogy, was the one that had him pray to Vader's helmet. And when he pushed himself into doing the thing that Vader couldn't bring himself to do - kill a member of his own family - I thought it was something out of a good old Aristotelian tragedy. Then came the redemption arc and ruined it. Its not really a tragedy if there's a redemption at its end. Plus, its the most morally-corrupt moment in the whole series. Agreed. Kylo shouldn't have been redeemed. Rey shouldn't have been teased to be evil. These are both major things that have already happened in Star Wars. There were so many directions the series could've gone after TFA...and like a lot of things these days...we got one of the worst timeline versions of it. Pieter Boelen 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fabulin 3,512 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted March 27, 2020 Share Posted March 27, 2020 Kylo and Rey, and ALL of the characters are seriously underwritten and underdeveloped in the entire trilogy, instead they're fancy character designs made to appeal to children, just like Darth Vader and Boba Fett that stand out as iconography as opposed to full-fledged characters. Luke didn't have an antagonist like Kylo Ren, he had the interactions with Han and Leia, his doubts about confronting Vader, about The Force and becoming a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TSMefford 1,509 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 19 hours ago, Fabulin said: Fixed. Oh TFA is fine. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 And another thought: WHy the hell doesn't Kylo "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" Ren just slice the reanimated corpse into bits? Really, what reason? What can he give him? "A new Empire"? Proper answer is "Dude, the Empire failed. You failed. I kill old things. Btw I have my own new Empire now, which I'm Supreme Leader of. Though I have no idea what I do, how go things, how large we are, what the state of the Galaxy is is, because these morons are sidestepping it because they think the one main lesson from the prequels is NO POLITICS WHATSOEVER OR PEOPLE WILL HATE US." And once again, what exactly is Palps' plan? -Make 20 kajingalamobillazingillion ships all with planet destroyer weapons -Make clones -Have a good but not Force sensitive one -let him go -make a bounty hunter kill him when he has a Force sensitive child, but make it be an incompetent hunter who leaves the kid then dies immediately when he steps out of his ship into... quickpebbles. -Manipulate the grandson of your failed bro who killed you for years through visions and meat puppets for... reasons. -Make an announcement in Fortnite that he's back -Talk to Kylo after he somehow found a wayfinder -tell him to kill Force Sensitive granddaughter who he wants to transition into because... 4D chess? -tell Rey that if she kills him, he will take over his body, if she doesn't then... he will remain on life support tucked away on an unreachable planet? -start killing your dream heir and the Kylo who turned against you after he only ever found you to kill you in the first place -be so stupid that only then do you realise that they are a dyad and can suck their lifeforce out -start lightninging into the sky to stop every ship but then start lightninging your Force Sensitive granddaughter even when she reflects it onto you and you die and don't move into her after all. Makes sense. Pieter Boelen and Chen G. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 https://www.reddit.com/r/StarWarsLeaks/comments/fsmnsq/according_to_the_art_of_the_rise_of_skywalker_the/?ref=share&ref_source=link Also, disappointing news from OP in the comments... "As a complete aside, I’m pretty pissed that this book has practically nothing after Rey and Kylo fight on the Death Star wreckage. No Force Ghost Luke, no Palpatine, no Exogal, no Ben Solo, no Tatooine... The book was delayed from the date of the theatrical release to the date of the physical release. I assumed it was due to the fear of spoilers, but now I have no clue why..." Fuck's sake... I know @Disco Stu still had the book on preorder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 That's disappointing - the visual dictionary also skipped any Palpatine stuff - but kept the Sith Fleet material. I was really looking forward to the art for Palpatine, to see all the different early designs etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 I don't even get this pushback/removing stuff for no spoilers thing. If you don't want spoilers, don't buy the fucking book or don't open it. If things getting on the internet is their concern, we had pictures from this book 3 months ago, and the entire plot of the movie including week-to-week changes were fucking leaked through the latter half of the year, this shit seems like a pretty low priority problem in the bigger scheme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 That and the idea of pulling those spoilery materials long after the release of the film. I get that in most instances, the art books are made months in advance of a film's release, but this is all a bit wonky, if not a bit sus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Something is definitely suss, considering all the rumours about early versions of the Palpatine story and a very different climax. The trilogy is over, what's there to hide at this point? Are they just afraid people will see all the awesome abandoned ideas and get pissed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Yeah, it's shady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 56 minutes ago, Holko said: I know @Disco Stu still had the book on preorder I got my copy yesterday and literally the first thing I looked for was concept art for Exegol and Palpatine. Nothin’. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Very, very suss. Even the later leaks said Leia/Luke fought off Palpatine at the end to help Rey. As if there wasn't concept art for that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Seeing how clear and well-envisioned the film is, I wouldn't be that surprised if we found out they just winged half of it on set. 4 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: I got my copy yesterday and literally the first thing I looked for was concept art for Exegol and Palpatine. Nothin’. At this point what remains that I'd want it for is the TLJ chapter(s?), then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pieter Boelen 740 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 On 3/29/2020 at 2:28 PM, Holko said: And another thought: WHy the hell doesn't Kylo "Let the past die, kill it if you have to" Ren just slice the reanimated corpse into bits? Really, what reason? What can he give him? "A new Empire"? Proper answer is "Dude, the Empire failed. You failed. I kill old things. Btw I have my own new Empire now, which I'm Supreme Leader of. HA! Good one. Indeed Palps was promising stuff that Mr. Ren already bloody had! Sense, thy name is NOT Rise of Skywalker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Does it really need to be spelled out that Rey being a Skywalker is metaphorical? Is that an indication of how stupid they think their audience is? Of course it's metaphorical. That's not the objection the audience has to it. The objection is that it's fucking ludicrous. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,274 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 I rewatched this movie recently. It's crap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 The only thing I liked about it was the score. it doesn't even feature any action scenes or comedy bits that linger in my memory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 It had great sound and picture quality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 I thought a lot of the shots were not composed well actually. But sure, it didn't look cheaply made or anything, and the special effects were spot on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 14 minutes ago, Jay said: The only thing I liked about it was the score. it doesn't even feature any action scenes or comedy bits that linger in my memory I thought the action and humour were both fine. Certainly, I prefer Abrams humour to Johnson’s: it’s not as meta (I hate meta). Nothing particularly noteworthy about the cinematography - the Spielbegian touch of The Force Awakens isn’t quite there - but the effects are mostly well-rendered. Doesn’t save the movie, but I’m willing to acknowledge the parts that do work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 How did you feel about the surround sound and how the ships flew around the audience? The subwoofer effects were wicked! Like when Kylo Ren dropped his helmet on the table and it made a sudden wave of bass rumble that shook the cinema louder than anything else in movie history! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 None of that stuck in my memory, sorry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 Really? You seem to remember everything else! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 1, 2020 Author Share Posted April 1, 2020 I remember things I like. Bad movies just go in one ear and out the other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted April 1, 2020 Share Posted April 1, 2020 A lot like Solo, it didn't leave a lasting impression on me - unlike TFA, Rogue One, and TLJ, all of which I thought were great. It was fine. I didn't hate TROS, but it really wasn't for me. I remember liking that little Babu guy, thought Keri Russell had incredible eyelashes when she was ogling Poe, and liking Kylo's goony smile before he poofed away. Maybe if I do a second watch when it hits Disney+ I'll have more opinions. My spouse said it was her favorite Star Wars movie, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Something I only just learned today: in terms of worldwide box office gross, The Rise of Skywalker didn't even quite gross more than Joker. How pathetic is that? Jay and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fargo 297 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Why is it pathetic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom 4,658 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 29 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Something I only just learned today: in terms of worldwide box office gross, The Rise of Skywalker didn't even quite gross more than Joker. How pathetic is that? Its pathetic, but do the 2020 numbers change the final order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 21 minutes ago, Tom said: Its pathetic, but do the 2020 numbers change the final order? That's total grosses, not calendar year grosses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 On 4/2/2020 at 3:38 AM, Þekþiþm said: How did you feel about the surround sound and how the ships flew around the audience? The subwoofer effects were wicked! Like when Kylo Ren dropped his helmet on the table and it made a sudden wave of bass rumble that shook the cinema louder than anything else in movie history! I remember the surround sound pumping out tie fighter noises and explosions in the background that obstructed nearly every moment of the score. The sound team dropped every inane sound they could just so they could make the score inaudible and for no other reason. Remco 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bofur01 245 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 5 hours ago, Fargo said: Why is it pathetic? I guess relatively so, as Joker was R-rated Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 But also it's *STAR WARS*. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,651 Posted April 6, 2020 Share Posted April 6, 2020 Man, Disney had 7 of the 10 highest ranking movies last year, with a profit share in an eighth (Spidey). Walt Disney must be thrilled! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,316 Posted April 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2020 Laughably embarrassing comments from the editors of TROS, slamming Rian Johnson's vastly superior Last Jedi and defend JJ's dumpster fire third movie, probably one of the most nonsensical, poorly edited pieces of shit released by a major Hollywood studio. These two morons couldn't edit a grade 6 paper on Catcher in the Rye, considering the nonsensical mess that is 'The Rise of Skywalker,' probably the crowning achievement of their career as editors. Quote Mary Jo Markey and Maryann Brandon, speaking on the Light the Fuse podcast, admit that they are not fans of the way Rian Johnson’s film changed things up from its J.J. Abrams-directed predecessor. Markey says: “I couldn’t agree more. It’s very strange to have the second film so consciously undo the storytelling of the first one. I’m sorry that’s what it felt like.” Holko, The Illustrious Jerry, Bayesian and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 They're not wrong necessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I just can't fathom what the hell they mean with that at all. Did they see the movie or only dumb youtube rant videos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 I'm not sure if TLJ is vastly superior to TROS. They're both just 40s matinee serial remakes, really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,316 Posted April 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted April 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, Þekþiþm said: They're not wrong necessarily. No, they are completely wrong. Someone should tap these dimwits on the shoulder and inform them that it was JJ Abrams who saddled Rian Johnson with the thankless task of justifying why fan-favourite hero Luke Skywalker isolated himself and abandoned his family, while also having to find something new to do with Palpatine Snoke that wasn't just a retread of ROTJ. It was JJ who released little more than a soft reboot which forced Rian into that corner, with few options except continue the transparent remake of the OT or head in a fresh direction, extracting inspiration from JJ's predictable formula like blood from a stone (and almost everything Rian did was a significant improvement on what JJ established). Says a lot about the type of people JJ must surround himself with. Clearly his core crew had zero ambition for this trilogy; how dare Rian have the audacity to not follow their plan for a lazy retread of the original trilogy, with JJ's "new" characters just filling the archetype of an established character from four decades prior. The Illustrious Jerry, Romão, Remco and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giftheck 916 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 ... you know Disney decided on that story before JJ even came aboard, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Rubbish. Between JJ and Lawrence Kasdan, they had total control of the narrative (even if the broad strokes from Disney/Lucasfilm were to follow the path established by the OT over the PT). Do you really think it was Disney who demanded blatant regurgitation like Death Star Starkiller Base and Emperor Snoke? If so, why were they miraculously hands off when it came to Rian Johnson having free reign to do as he pleased? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 Creative people involved in these productions aren't necessarily going to agree with one another or the outcome of films they weren't involved with. Hell, even George Lucas was tepid on TFA, not sure what he thought of TLJ, and I haven't heard a peep on what he thought of TROS. I dunno, SW has always been just a bunch of explodey space noise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 At least Rian Johnson and everyone involved in TLJ has the dignity not to come out and call TROS the embarrassing dumpster fire it is. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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