The John Williams Jurassic Park Collection from La-La Land MUSIC Discussion

[Josh500 1,615]

40 minutes ago, crumbs said:

 

1. An undiscovered masterwork to the masses, not to JW Fans, who always knew this was a great score desperately in need of expansion.

2. This was the first John Williams OST I ever bought as a kid, so yeah, I know the score pretty well. The point I'm making is that the score is revelatory in complete, chronological form in a way that nobody could've predicted.

3. I have posted dozens of times here about TLW being my holy grail complete score release; I've wanted this music since I was in primary school!

 

 

Sure, fair enough. 

 

But to be completely honest, for the masses, I don't think this LLL release doesn't change anything at all. Either people knew how great this score was and thus were eager to get this (most of us, and also a few casual JW fans or fans of JP), or people didn't and don't know how great this score is, and thus couldn't be bothered with this release at all (if they're even aware of its existence).

 

So for us, who always knew how great TLW was, it's a treat to get all the complete score in chronological order. For the masses who don't know how great TLW is... well, the majority of them still don't know.

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, Josh500 said:

Because for many of us, TLW definitely WAS the number one holy grail for getting the expansion treatment.

Wasn't aware of the fact that I was not the only one who has been longing for this release so extremely.

 

52 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Because...petrol got spilt...and caught fire...boom.

 

And probably the car was rammed by the triceratops.

This was an allusion to the cut scene, whose existence is implied by the cue title and the fact that the car exploded. Maybe it was considered too vicious to be done by the protagonists

[crumbs 14,316]

Speaking of deleted scenes, I wonder what the additional music in Big Feet was meant to accompany? Extra dialogue with Burke? Extra footage of Roland loading up for his TRex hunt? Something else entirely?

 

Are there any hints from the novelization or otherwise?

[Richard Penna 3,689]

10 hours ago, crumbs said:

Not wrong about that. I tried working out what parts they'd looped to make the film version but it was a nightmare. It's pretty much unchanged until the shot of the hanging jacket above Sarah ("Oh no...") then they begin looping parts.

 

There's probably some digital manipulation too. They seem to have looped parts of the track without the synth overlays as well, making it very hard to replicate the film version.

 

I realised rather quickly when hearing the original version that it would be impossible to replicate exactly what's heard in the film, as the music editor must've been able to work with only certain layers.

 

For me, it's the only blot on an otherwise absolutely outstanding release. I always feel that if an original version is sufficiently different from a film version, and editing is not sufficient to replicate the latter, then the producer should consider including it. Surely, if JW had been given the time to rewrite/re-record all the stuff SS changed in post, he would also have had him rewrite this cue.

[crumbs 14,316]

9 minutes ago, Richard Penna said:

Surely, if JW had been given the time to rewrite/re-record all the stuff SS changed in post, he would also have had him rewrite this cue.

 

Yep, it's unfortunate that JW never got to write alternates for the film. We could've had umpteenth different versions of the main title and other cues rather than the tracked mess that eventuated.

 

Something akin to the TFA situation, whenever that gets expanded.

[Josh500 1,615]

36 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Speaking of deleted scenes, I wonder what the additional music in Big Feet was meant to accompany? Extra dialogue with Burke? Extra footage of Roland loading up for his TRex hunt? Something else entirely?

 

Are there any hints from the novelization or otherwise?

 

In the DVD extras, there are several deleted scenes. Maybe one of them? 

 

Not sure myself, haven't watched them in a long time. 

[crumbs 14,316]

Nope, despite the plethora of deleted scenes from both films, only two have ever been released: the boardroom scene with Ludlow and the African bar scene with Roland and Ajay.

[Jay 37,364]

11 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

I need to talk about the use of synth choir in TLW. It's absolute genius subversion. In the first film, choir was used (as it traditionally is in many film scores) to add gravitas and scope to many scenes, particularly to do with the dinosaurs themselves. This was your standard choir with real voices. The kind of thing that gives you chills on the back of your neck when you hear it; very spiritual is what I'm saying. Now, The Lost World features choir as well, but it's all synth. And sometimes it's not even trying to sound like a real choir. Why is that? It struck me: the choir in TLW takes on a new, more chilling role. It's the embodiment of the monstrosity against nature that the very act of cloning the dinosaurs was, and the subsequent scramble to control them. It's a meta-commentary on the man-made nature of these animals and the struggle for man to undo his mistake; the antithesis of the majesty and wonder of the first film. JW's use of the synth choir (and indeed synths in the rest of the score) is his way of telling us this darker part of the story. To counter this he uses other synthetic sounds that suggest more organic animal noises, and the soundtrack becomes a battleground for man vs. nature. Combined with the percussion and incredibly dark and jagged orchestrations, you have one of the most diverse sonic pallets JW has ever devised for a film. 

 

 

 

 

Quality post! 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

1997 was a great year for synth choirs in film scores.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Titanic is a great score!

[Incanus 5,714]

13 hours ago, Docteur Qui said:

I need to talk about the use of synth choir in TLW. It's absolute genius subversion. In the first film, choir was used (as it traditionally is in many film scores) to add gravitas and scope to many scenes, particularly to do with the dinosaurs themselves. This was your standard choir with real voices. The kind of thing that gives you chills on the back of your neck when you hear it; very spiritual is what I'm saying. Now, The Lost World features choir as well, but it's all synth. And sometimes it's not even trying to sound like a real choir. Why is that? It struck me: the choir in TLW takes on a new, more chilling role. It's the embodiment of the monstrosity against nature that the very act of cloning the dinosaurs was, and the subsequent scramble to control them. It's a meta-commentary on the man-made nature of these animals and the struggle for man to undo his mistake; the antithesis of the majesty and wonder of the first film. JW's use of the synth choir (and indeed synths in the rest of the score) is his way of telling us this darker part of the story. To counter this he uses other synthetic sounds that suggest more organic animal noises, and the soundtrack becomes a battleground for man vs. nature. Combined with the percussion and incredibly dark and jagged orchestrations, you have one of the most diverse sonic pallets JW has ever devised for a film. 

Undoubtedly Williams could have used a real chorus for TLW if he would have wanted it so the synth choir was a conscious choice, another way of setting the sequel apart from the wonder of the first film, but I somewhat doubt John Williams himself made quite so deep subtextual statement with the use of the synth choir.  Still this is a very interesting and good interpretation indeed. 

 

 

 

 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

James Horner had made synth choirs trendy at the time. Williams was undoubtedly ripping him off.

[Incanus 5,714]

1 minute ago, Rose Dawson said:

James Horner had made synth choirs trendy at the time. Williams was undoubtedly ripping him off.

Wasn't Horner's brief to ape Enya's synth voice sound for Titanic? The Book of Days kind of stuff.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

1 minute ago, Rose Dawson said:

James Horner had made synth choirs trendy at the time. Williams was undoubtedly ripping him off.

 

Stop this nonsense now!

[Jay 37,364]

15 minutes ago, Rose Dawson said:

James Horner had made synth choirs trendy at the time. Williams was undoubtedly ripping him off.

 

The Lost World opened 7 months before Titanic. 

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Horner used synth choirs prior to Titanic.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So did Williams!

 

TESB anyone?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

What's that? Not sure I've heard that one.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's the prequel to ROTJ (OST)

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The only prequels I enjoy are Episodes I-III and the opening scene of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Last Crusade also has a synth choir

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

And a very good one.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Too good?

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Mmm...

[Pieter Boelen 740]

4 hours ago, Rose Dawson said:

The only prequels I enjoy are Episodes I-III and the opening scene of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

How about the entirety of Temple of Doom?

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Just to clarify, my post about the synth choir was a snapshot of my stream of consciousness on my last listen to the score. I was being slightly facetious, but I also genuinely do think that the choice to use synth choir was very deliberate and was chosen to compliment the rest of the score's sonorities. It's easy to get caught up and start finding genius that isn't really there, but that's half the fun of reading art.

 

I do also think that JW had a very intellectual approach to this film. The emotions he highlights in some scenes are deliberately subversive of what you'd expect from both him and Spielberg. Unfortunately most of those moments were replaced in the final film. The biggest one for me is the final moments of "Tranquilizer Dart" - it's basically the ending to a different movie, one we didn't quite get to see, but which there are glimpses of throughout the film. Another is the repeated use of ethereal textures for the infant dinosaurs. It suggests a really unique and pensive emotion.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

13 minutes ago, Pieter_Boelen said:

How about the entirety of Temple of Doom?

 

Perhaps you're right.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

19 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

The biggest one for me is the final moments of "Tranquilizer Dart" - it's basically the ending to a different movie, one we didn't quite get to see, but which there are glimpses of throughout the film.

Exactly! That's what I was thinking when I recently watched the movie. The complete score kind of reflects the originally intended, more interesting version of the movie. But it got "mainstreamed".

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

The ending of the film is awesome.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

Awesome but way too short. As if the last sequence is supposed to fill the running time up to 2 hours.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I have to say the difference between these two scores is quite something. Jurassic Park is quintessential Williams. With its big, brassy fanfares, upbeat tone and romantic themes it plays almost like a greatest hits compilation. 

And yet the sequel score is something wholly unique in Williams' oeuvre, thanks in large part to his extensive use of percussion and textures.

 

Pretty interesting for an original and a sequel score written by the same composer.

[Jay 37,364]

Well said! 

[1977 1,743]

I recently received my copy of this set and as thrilled as I am about it, I would love to attempt to recreate the bonus tracks on the 20th anniversary release of JP. I was never able to purchase the download due to it not being available in my country.

 

Does anyone have or would anyone be willing to detail the track sequencing and approximate timings for the cues forming part of the bonus tracks?

 

I know some of you probably will roll your eyes at this request, but please have pity on this JWfan that was never able to purchase the 20th anniversary download.

[Josh500 1,615]

4 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

I recently received my copy of this set and as thrilled as I am about it, I would love to attempt to recreate the bonus tracks on the 20th anniversary release of JP.

 

I'm not rolling my eyes at you, but just curious. What in the world would you want to do that for?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Really...if you have bought the LLL CDs, you paid for the most expensive sets Universal has released...

 

Getting unnoficially the 20th anniversary tracks to replicate those mixxes woulndt be such a crime...after all it is just a "fan edit" made by John Williams himself

 

 

[Josh500 1,615]

By the way, I love the 4 bonus tracks from the 20th anniversary edition! 

 

If chronological order is important to you, these are not for you.

 

Musically, however, they are quite listenable. I always respect the composer's decision to combine cues for "listenability."

[rough cut 1,714]

Agreed! JW usually does a good job combing cues with the listerer's experience as the most important thing.

[1977 1,743]

59 minutes ago, Josh500 said:

 

I'm not rolling my eyes at you, but just curious. What in the world would you want to do that for?

 

Well, as much as I've enjoy having every note of this fantastic score, I still appreciate albums sequenced for listening, even when cues from different parts of the film are combined.

 

As I understand it, Mr Wiiliams was involved with the selection of extra music for the 20th anniversary release, and these so-called bonus tracks therefore bear his stamp of approval.

 

I love the original SW album, but I also love the '97 SE, just for different reasons. Hope this makes sense.

 

57 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

Really...if you have bought the LLL CDs, you paid for the most expensive sets Universal has released...

 

Getting unnoficially the 20th anniversary tracks to replicate those mixxes woulndt be such a crime...after all it is just a "fan edit" made by John Williams himself

 

 

 

I don't have access to legally listen to these bonus tracks, so my only alternative is to attempt to recreate them myself.

[Josh500 1,615]

2 minutes ago, JTWfan77 said:

 

Well, as much as I've enjoy having every note of this fantastic score, I still appreciate albums sequenced for listening, even when cues from different parts of the film are combined.

 

As I understand it, Mr Wiiliams was involved with the selection of extra music for the 20th anniversary release, and these so-called bonus tracks therefore bear his stamp of approval.

 

Totally agree with you!

 

If the combining of tracks had been done by the studio or the record company or by some other third party, I wouldn't care for that, bit if it's been done by the artist himself (i.e. John Williams) it's something different entirely. I always respect and appreciate that.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

1 hour ago, JTWfan77 said:

Does anyone have or would anyone be willing to detail the track sequencing and approximate timings for the cues forming part of the bonus tracks?

 

17. The History Lesson

1-04 Entrance of Mr. Hammond 

segues into

1-08 The History Lesson (film version)

 

18. Stalling Around

2-09 Stalling Around

 

19. The Coming Storm

1-13 The Coming Storm (film version)

segues into

1-16 The Falling Car and The T-Rex Chase 3:05 - 4:33

segues into

1-03 The Encased Mosquito

 

20. Hungry Raptor

2-04 Hungry Raptor

 

[Brundlefly 2,385]

1 hour ago, Josh500 said:

If the combining of tracks had been done by the studio or the record company or by some other third party, I wouldn't care for that, bit if it's been done by the artist himself (i.e. John Williams) it's something different entirely. I always respect and appreciate that.

Except "The Coming Storm" 2013 Album Version which, to my mind, seems like they just compiled the rest of cues they still wanted to release.

[1977 1,743]

44 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

 

17. The History Lesson

1-04 Entrance of Mr. Hammond 

segues into

1-08 The History Lesson (film version)

 

18. Stalling Around

2-09 Stalling Around

 

19. The Coming Storm

1-13 The Coming Storm (film version)

segues into

1-16 The Falling Car and The T-Rex Chase 3:05 - 4:33

segues into

1-03 The Encased Mosquito

 

20. Hungry Raptor

2-04 Hungry Raptor

 

 

Thanks a million, much appreciated.

[Jay 37,364]

Wait, that's all you wanted to know?  That information has been here for ages!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

But he hasnt been here for very long.

[Jay 37,364]

Maybe this will help you out too, @JTWfan77

 

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1hZY4hhCz-5NzbjKuPOx8R9Yb0iWnr4P4SwzG1-6VSTg/pubhtml

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Jay, could you make a reference thread with links to all those spreadsheets?

 

I wanted to look this one up, but I just couldn't find it and I know there are more.

 

They're quite valuable, so a thread with quick access to them would be much appreciated.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Good idea. Things like that can become hard to find buried under thousands of posts.

[Jay 37,364]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Breathmask said:

Jay, could you make a reference thread with links to all those spreadsheets?

 

I wanted to look this one up, but I just couldn't find it and I know there are more.

 

They're quite valuable, so a thread with quick access to them would be much appreciated.

 

Wow, you're the third person to request something like that in as many weeks!
 

Something is in the works, but might not launch for a while, yet.

 

Which one was the one you were trying to find?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

The Jurassic Park one you linked to above, to answer JTWfan77's question.

[Jay 37,364]

Oh haha, well to be fair the answer to his question is found right on page one of the thread for the 20th anniversary edition release, or on the main page, or on this external site., etc.