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Hans Zimmer's DUNKIRK


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This approach to wanting films to be almost ascetic in their storytelling, or that those kind of films are somehow "purer," is such horse crap to me.  These are tricks that storytellers have been usin

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3 hours ago, Richard said:

 

 

 

 

 

THIS!!!!!

Thank you, ocelot, for stating the bleeding obvious!

 

Bleeding obvious, or a laughable oversimplification, especially coming from a composer himself?  Come on.  For fuck's sake!

 

6 hours ago, Thor said:

Business as usual in the JWFAN forum, I see.

 

It's getting old, don't you think?  Probably time for a sabbatical.  At one point, it was useful and fun to be active on a forum like this, but now it's just a chore, going through the same cycles, making the same arguments.  People are thick headed and will think what they want, whether or not you try to point out how silly they can be.  And again, nothing to do with opinions.  Just rabidly wrong, amateurish statements on objective matters!

 

It's rich to have people complain that Giacchino gets a ribbing here.  It's so often deserved.  But with Zimmer, you have the same people walking up to the same old arguments that have been shot dead in the backyard, sticking their hands up their asses, and trying to animate them into new life like an undead puppet.

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6 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

The real kicker from all you guys claiming this is lazy student level nonsense, is that none of you are scoring films and Hans is, so it mustn't be that easy. 

 

This is always a slippery argument to make.  The real kicker is that the notion that it's student level, that it's easy, that it would take 10 minutes, that anyone here could do it, is completely ludicrous and to assert this you would either have to have 1) zero experience making music or 2) a real compulsion to ignore reality just to make a point about something you don't like.

 

In either case, it's revealing.

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28 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

 

This is always a slippery argument to make.  The real kicker is that the notion that it's student level, that it's easy, that it would take 10 minutes, that anyone here could do it, is completely ludicrous and to assert this you would either have to have 1) zero experience making music or 2) a real compulsion to ignore reality just to make a point about something you don't like.

 

In either case, it's revealing.

You are obviously talking about me here. So what you are telling me is that 1. I cannot write music which I can guarantee you is a pile of crap on your part and 2. I am ignoring reality? I have those samples. It's one note. It IS extremely lazy scoring.

30 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

I went for a run while listening to this, I like it. 

 

I can see why lazy computer chair potatoes at JWFan wouldn't like it. 

Interesting. You went for a run. So because I don't like it I sit on my couch and I'm a lazy fat git. So 5 days a week in the gym, 4 days jumping my horse and 3 days of bootcamp in each week is laziness. Hope you had a nice run, lol WTF

51 minutes ago, Sally Spectra said:

That track is so unlistenable on its own, it'll probably work in the film.

Agreed, it might work well in the movie. 

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What samples are they, Ocelot?  How's about you put your money where your mouth is.  Take 10 minutes and try to make a track of equal or greater quality than what Zimmer has done here. Be honest and show us what you come up with in the allotted time.

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Just now, TheGreyPilgrim said:

What samples are they, Ocelot?  How's about you put your money where your mouth is.  Take 10 minutes and try to make a track of equal or greater quality than what Zimmer has done here. Be honest and show us what you come up with in the allotted time.

I just did a whole episode of a tv show dude, I don't need to show you anything. You can look up my stuff online, just type in my name, are you serious with this shit? you act as if I am some idiot person who has never composed a thing. Just go on YouTube, type in my name, you can see videos of orchestras playing my shit LOL

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1 minute ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

I'm not acting like you're an idiot.  Looking for affirmation of what you're asserting, though.

Yes you are. I am composing daily, on a tv show, I'm telling you, you can like this if you like, but it's lazy scoring to the upmost degree. I am telling you that these are just samples, nothing else and there's nothing happening around the samples. It's one note. You think I am going to stop working 11/16 hour days to come up with music for you to listen to you have another thing coming. I have another 6 episodes to compose, as long as I am not fired off the project. Now if you want to hear, what I can do, you can do so on YouTube or Soundcloud. If not, no biggy. I can actually compose orchestral music. I can come up with themes, I can do chase scenes. If you think it's old fashioned to actually be able to compose for an orchestra, then that's your right. Music is subjective. But I am not about to go to the studio and come up with a silly 10 minute nonsensical piece for you or anyone else. Ask anyone who can compose if there is anything more than samples and one note in this. See what you get. Again, go online, youtube, put in Wael Binali. You want a simple piece, go for Let The Games Begin, you want a more orchestral piece go for Earth. Knock yourself out!

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Who said anything about it being old fashioned to write for an orchestra?  Who said that there aren't samples involved in the Zimmer track?

 

I'm not interested in hearing what you can do.  I'm interested in hearing your equivalent of what the Zimmer track is, done in the 10 minutes you suggested it would take.  That's all.

 

Why on earth are you being so wildly aggressive about it?  Why does everyone on here get so ruffled when someone calls on them to back up their words?

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1 minute ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Who said anything about it being old fashioned to write for an orchestra?  Who said that there aren't samples involved in the Zimmer track?

 

I'm not interested in hearing what you can do.  I'm interested in hearing your equivalent of what the Zimmer track is, done in the 10 minutes you suggested it would take.  That's all.

 

Why on earth are you being so wildly aggressive about it?  Why does everyone on here get so ruffled when someone calls on them to back up their words?

Because the simple truth is I can back up my words by my actual work. You don't want to hear it, then that's your call, but that is how I am backing up what I am saying, lol. How do you not understand that? I am a working composer. Do you not think that I am backing up what I am saying by saying, go listen to my work? Don't you think that that tells your ears all you need to know? You don't want to then fine, don't. But the proof is in the pudding.

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Dude....

 

How do you not understand that I am not asking to hear your balls out best as a composer, nor anything by you other than your take on a 10 minute, one finger sample and loop session?

 

That's what the conversation is about, that's what my proposal was.  That is all.

 

Bleedin' Christ, can I get a ban for my own sanity, here?

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23 minutes ago, TheGreyPilgrim said:

Dude....

 

How do you not understand that I am not asking to hear your balls out best as a composer, nor anything by you other than your take on a 10 minute, one finger sample and loop session?

Let me ask you this. What do you not believe? That these are samples that require one finger? We just used them on the first episode of Netflix's upcoming Medinah, same loop and string figures.

22 minutes ago, Blumenkohl said:

 

Guess you can do anything in 10 minutes if you shamelessly ape 10 other composers in 7.5 minutes. 

Hey, I'll take that as a compliment because if you were trying to insult what I do for a living, it's never gonna work :) I love what I do and I know what I can do. But thank you. You are right in that I have influences just like any other composer. And thanks for promoting my piece. Very nice of you, heh. 

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46 minutes ago, ocelot said:

Let me ask you this. What do you not believe? That these are samples that require one finger? We just used them on the first episode of Netflix's upcoming Medinah, same loop and string figures.

He does not believe that you can compose a piece of music on par with Zimmer in 10 minutes like you suggest. Not that complicated. And in all the time it took to reply with the bitching and moaning, it could have been done. Ya dig, Papa Smurf?

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41 minutes ago, Koray Savas said:

He does not believe that you can compose a piece of music on par with Zimmer in 10 minutes like you suggest. Not that complicated. And in all the time it took to reply with the bitching and moaning, it could have been done. Ya dig, Papa Smurf?

Wait because you think the studio I go to write the tv show is in my house? lol. I have a piano, pencil and paper here as most of my commissions are for full orchestra ;)

 

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Yes Koray, how idiotic of you to think that he's one of those slobs who has a studio in his own home!  Clearly from the several self plugs he's made, he is Very Important!

 

And all this over a middle of the road Zimmer suspense cue.  I just can't help myself from jumping on any opportunity to debate or challenge a claim.  The internet has ruined me.

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3 hours ago, ocelot said:

Let me ask you this. What do you not believe? That these are samples that require one finger? We just used them on the first episode of Netflix's upcoming Medinah, same loop and string figures.

Hey, I'll take that as a compliment because if you were trying to insult what I do for a living, it's never gonna work :) I love what I do and I know what I can do. But thank you. You are right in that I have influences just like any other composer. And thanks for promoting my piece. Very nice of you, heh. 

 

 

ocelot, dude, take my advice: don't even bother. With this particular poster, it's just not worth it. I've been on the receiving-end of his "wisdom", and it's not pretty. The man (if you can call him that) is one step away from being a troll. How this person hasn't been banned, is beyond me. The poster has absolutely nothing good to say about anyone. You don't believe me? Check-out his posts, and you'll see the evidence. It's all there. He called me a "twat", which I don't care about, but I'd never use such language about another JWfaner. Best to ignore. 

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Richard, you once misinterepreted a quote of mine as a personal attack and you've had this absurd vendetta ever since.  

 

I give many people a hard time - when it's merited, I call many people names, and so do many others here.  I think it's rarely ever personal, meant or taken.  If you don't see it, you're just not around often enough I suppose.  

 

But do drop this nonsense.  Have I ever truly been anything but patiently civil with you other than that one outburst, which again, was the culmination of your own crusade of attitude against me?  And yet you continue the vitriol.  It's verging on despicable.

 

You've personally attacked me a number of times, including this latest post.  Why?  I have tried very conscientiously to never do this in my own exchanges on here.  I may get sarcastic and frustrated and all that, but it is not really in my handbook to get outright mean or to attack anyone on a personal level.  Hence why I've never been banned, I suppose?  

 

You are the one at fault here, ultimately, but as I mentioned in an earlier post, I often can't help perpetuating it in my own way.

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3 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

TGP doing passive aggressive attacks on people who don't like a certain cue?

 

Ah yes, the new Nolan flick will come out soon!

 

Lets see if you can express yourself with a little bit more dignity this time.

 

Fat chance you ginger Dutch twat!

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Fun read, thanks everyone :)

 

I won't stick strictly to the suggestion that anyone could write this cue in 10 minutes, but it does come off as a remarkably simplistic cue, and it wouldn't surprise me if it is indeed built entirely from library samples.

 

I've heard one other case of a composer relying almost exclusively on samples, but it was a TV show where live performers' music had to be replaced due to sync costs, and originality probably wasn't the priority. This is a major blockbuster with the most A-list of composers who keeps banging on endlessly about using revolutionary techniques. I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with using pre-existing samples, if you're injecting your own identity and ideas into it. It doesn't seem like Zimmer has done that last part.

 

But then there's the 'it's all the scene needed' argument. Possibly. Although I slightly struggle to see this music working in a 1940s war film.

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11 hours ago, ocelot said:

Let me ask you this. What do you not believe? That these are samples that require one finger? We just used them on the first episode of Netflix's upcoming Medinah, same loop and string figures.

Hey, I'll take that as a compliment because if you were trying to insult what I do for a living, it's never gonna work :) I love what I do and I know what I can do. But thank you. You are right in that I have influences just like any other composer. And thanks for promoting my piece. Very nice of you, heh. 

Ocelot,isn't it a bit hypocritical to complain about Zimmer's lazy writing for using a simple samples but go on to say you know these are single finger samples because you "just used them on the first episode...same loop and string figures"?  Sure you go on to say judge your writing skills by other music but surely Zimmer would say judge his musicality on something he is most proud of.

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3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Fun read, thanks everyone :)

 

I won't stick strictly to the suggestion that anyone could write this cue in 10 minutes, but it does come off as a remarkably simplistic cue, and it wouldn't surprise me if it is indeed built entirely from library samples.

 

I've heard one other case of a composer relying almost exclusively on samples, but it was a TV show where live performers' music had to be replaced due to sync costs, and originality probably wasn't the priority. This is a major blockbuster with the most A-list of composers who keeps banging on endlessly about using revolutionary techniques. I don't think there is anything necessarily wrong with using pre-existing samples, if you're injecting your own identity and ideas into it. It doesn't seem like Zimmer has done that last part.

 

But then there's the 'it's all the scene needed' argument. Possibly. Although I slightly struggle to see this music working in a 1940s war film.

 

I'm not sure it's a library simple as much as it's just Zimmer doing his "own thing". I just wish his "own thing", excited me more then it does based off that one cue. 

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"Easy"?

 

I'm reminded of the criticism that was directed at minimalists like Steve Reich, Terry Riley, Philip Glass, Michael Nyman and others when they first shot onto the scene..."anyone can do this; it's just a repetive pattern". True, almost anyone can write a repetitive pattern, but it's all in how you do it. From just having listened to this track once, I can hear several sophisticated layers. Some have mentioned the mirroring of a plane engine. Personally, I loved not the beat, but the slight chord progressions and the "sound" of the undulating figure above or below the figure (however you see it). A sense of inevitability. I'm very curious to see how this cue works in context, and how it fits in with the rest of the cues on the soundtrack album. I'm hoping it is has some of INTERSTELLAR's approach, where there's both development within tracks and in the album as a whole -- in the repetitve figures, and moments where it gets to soar a bit.

 

But here on JWFAN (and FSM), I know I shouldn't invest too much in defense. Most members are set to hate or dislike Zimmer from the get-go, which is basically a stalemate situation. Same with Scott's new ALIEN movies. I'm simply not bothered to invest a lot of energy and argumentation into it, being perfectly comfortable in my own assessment (which is the correct one, of course. ;)).

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The plane engine (I first thought it was a helicopter) reminds me of a synthesizer's LFO noise pulse.

 

10 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

But here on JWFAN (and FSM), I know I shouldn't invest too much in defense. Most members are set to hate or dislike Zimmer from the get-go, which is basically a stalemate situation. Same with Scott's new ALIEN movies. I'm simply not bothered to invest a lot of energy and argumentation into it, being perfectly comfortable in my own assessment (which is the correct one, of course. ;)).

 

JWfan is a microcosmos of the world. You have the haters (or the couldn't-care-lessers) and you have the Thors.

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