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SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

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The Leia force moment wasn't as powerful for me as I think it should have been. The almost superman-esque pose didn't help. I think it would have been better if her arms were limp by her side and the force was dragging her to her ship, instead of that purposeful flying stance.

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There's a fair bit of saltiness going on in this thread, a lot of it is hilarious (like people complaining about Porgs and merchandising being out of character for SW, as if the Ewoks, Jar-Jar and BB-8 weren't all conceived for exactly the same reason).

 

I'm reserving proper judgement for a second viewing and some time to reflect. I had a similar experience with TFA - I wasn't immediately bowled over but came to appreciate it over time.

 

My first thoughts are that I like how much more experimental it was in comparison to TFA. I loved everything to do with Luke, Rey and Kylo Ren. I liked that Snoke got killed and that Rey's parents were nobodies who abandoned her. I loved all of Leia's stuff and loved her own Force awakening moment and I'm genuinely devastated all over again at Fisher's passing. Luke's death was poignant (and telegraphed, as Steef mentioned, "out with the old, in with the new" is the main theme of the movie). And yes it made sense, he was physically and mentally exhausted. The saltiness about that is particularly baffling. I loved the random moments of humour like the iron coming down (with the Death Star motif playing and all). I liked Rose a lot.

 

The film was too long. I was getting quite tired by the end, even though I was still enjoying myself. I think my biggest issue is that it's a very fragmented film. It's not structured in a particularly obvious way, and that's probably due to it being the middle film in a trilogy. I was also slightly underwhelmed by the score, but I'm more than willing to give it time to grow on me. Rey's theme was a revelation in TFA and unlocked the whole thing as a masterpiece, but I'm not expecting that to be the case with this film.

 

There was lots to like and dislike, I'll wait to see how it distills itself for me.

 

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2 hours ago, Bofur01 said:

But yeah, the film generally left a sour taste in my mouth, much as I wanted to like it (and I really did want to like it). Though it made me appreciate TFA as a well made, coherent film with great characterisation all the more! (Despite being a little similar to ANH...)

 

I actually feel the same way now. I rewatched TFA after having seen TLJ, and oddly enough, this time around, I appreciated the film more. It still has a lot of problems, but in terms of structure and character development, it's pretty well put together (TLJ feels far messier on those aspects): the first act is actually pretty solid!

And sure, some might say the film has a clear, straigthforward structure because it copied a film that had a clear, straightforward structure, but still...

 

2 minutes ago, Docteur Qui said:

Luke's death was poignant (and telegraphed, as Steef mentioned, "out with the old, in with the new" is the main theme of the movie).

 

Wasn't that already the theme of TFA? Feels like it'll be the theme of this whole trilogy...

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32 minutes ago, RadJ said:

Snoke straight up being severed in half was awesome.  And man, I want his throne room!

 

Was it a particularly gruesome scene? I'll be seeing the film with some younger relatives, and I just want to make sure it doesn't scar them for life or anything. :P

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47 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

 

Wasn't that already the theme of TFA? Feels like it'll be the theme of this whole trilogy...

 

I'd argue that TFA was more on the "why fix it if it ain't broke" mentality, which was admittedly a good move on Disney and JJ's part to regain trust. But yeah, I get the overarching feeling from Episode IX will be that we're done with the Skywalkers and it's time to move on to some new ideas which is great.

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6 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

3 movies to do that feels a bit like a waste, but hey, I guess it's a necessary evil to possibly get something that feels truly fresh after that...

 

Well blame the average movie goer for that. 

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just one bit bug me. when the rebel frigate destroys the first order fleet by smashing into it at light speed , it seemed like the power of 100 nuclear bombs. How did Finn , Rose and other people on that star destroyer survive this

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Well, I got back from seeing the film.  I did the same thing I did last year, which was to avoid everything.  No trailers, no TV spots, no internet ads, articles, reviews, photos, etc.  I saw the poster and that was about it.  I didn't go into any of the forum threads to join or give a passing glance at discussion.  I felt it gave me an extra thrill in my viewing experience when I did that with FTA, and the same thing this time around.

 

I enjoyed the movie a lot.  There were problems, some spotty character and set-piece issues, but when the credits rolled, it felt good. 

 

Some of the less interesting things:  The movie was long.  It wasn't structured in a 3 art format, it felt more like 6.  Every time I thought it was going to end on a cliffhanger, it just kept going.  I appreciated the format more when it was over, but there was a time I couldn't believe it kept adding another scene.  The del Toro's character is either useless, or at the very least, inserted poorly.  I feel you could literally remove his character entirely, tweak a couple of things, and you have essentially the same thing, except tighter.  The subplot involving Fin and Rose didn't really work in general.  Some of the humor was a bit too cute.  In the OT, at least Star Wars and Empire, the humor was an extension of the human elements, the character's personalities drove most of it.  There was a tad overflow of cute little furry animal jokes in somewhat serious situations that I could have done without.

 

The good thankfully outweighs the negative.  The movie looks amazing, it's acted nicely, and it's scored beautifully.  There are some visual moments that are breathtaking.  I love that Snoke was killed.  It gives Kylo Ren a nice trajectory with his ascension to power.  There was some really wonderfully poetic moments with Luke, some neat new landscapes, and interesting action pieces.

 

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Just got back from this!

 

Wow. Turns out the cast wasn't kidding when they said this would be shocking. I'd followed all of the spoilers and rumors right up until a few weeks ago, yet I was still stunned by just how dark and apathetic Luke was. Likewise, the Force teleporting thing was stunning too, although ultimately I think it was a great way to end his character. Somehow I always felt that he was destined to stay on that island, that he should stay there. And Johnson gave us the best of both worlds, keeping him on the island yet at the same time giving him a reunion with Leia and some heroic lightsaber stuff. 

 

Canto Bight was gorgeous. I wish we'd seen more of it, but I suspect the concept art book will fulfill that desire. 

 

Again, I just have to emphasize how utterly shocking I found the story (which is probably a good thing!) I mean, Snoke dying?! Starting the film off with a space battle I had thought would end the first act?!

 

Now, I will say that I found the plot a little boring. SW has rarely been particularly engaging on a visceral, emotional level for me (compare to something like Titanic!), and this was unfortunately no different. Yet there was still plenty of greatness here. It will all take awhile to settle. But this was really well done. 

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Pros:

  • Luke!
  • BB8!
  • Pretty much all the Rey on Acht-To scenes (I'm not bother to look up if I spelled that right)
  • Luke describing The Force and a more visual representation of the pull of the dark side was great
  • Most of the opening battle, though focusing on the death of that new character we knew nothing about (Rose's sister) felt a bit weird and un-Star-Wars-y
  • The back and forth Rey/Kylo conversations while she was on Acht-To
  • Snoke LOOKED really cool and Serkis played him wondering (that dude is a seriously good actor)
  • Billie Lourd (Don't ask me why but I really enjoyed her scenes)
  • Some good comedic bits / one liners.  Poe and Hux's opening scene conversation was hilarious
  • The fact that Rey's parents don't matter and there are force sensitive kids waking up across the galaxy now

 

Cons:

  • Holdo (eh)
  • Rose (eh)
  • Benicio Del Tor's character (eh)
  • bothering to bring back Brienne of Tarth just to have her die
  • Kylo killing Snoke felt completely un-earned and stupid, maybe I missed something
  • The lightsaber battle that followed that I really hated.  I just didn't like watching a great character like Rey kill people.  It was weird.
  • Yoda!  I don't mind that he was included, or the general idea that he can still force ghost up and talk to people, but he LOOKED terrible (what happened to the old puppet!?), he SOUNDED terrible (Frank Oz apparently forgot how to do the voice, he just sounds like Miss Piggy now), and the dialogue they had him say was THE WORST.  His weird-Yoda-speak is indeering, but somehow in TESB and ROTJ they found the perfect amount of it to use in those films.  In the prequels it started to get to be too much ("Around the survivors a perimeter create" is atrocious), but here it was almost ALL bad lines.  I actually had to stop and use my brain to decode some of his sentences, which never happened in ESB or ROTJ.  And why could he now create lightning and physically tap Luke on the head?
  • The Leia death fake out.  Pointless, and looked dumb.
  • Rose's line about love or whatever and the kiss, all cringe inducing

 

Not sure how I feel:

  • Luke's death (the red herring of showing a X-Wing underwater on Acht-To was clever though)
  • The political / war profiteering angle

 

 

The music was fucking amazing!

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Film flirts with a lot of neat ideas. Mostly shaky execution though. The whole thing is pretty uneven, with some magical moments here and there.

 

It starts off well, then really drags in the middle, closes with a great looking action sequence, and then ends with an odd caper.

 

Hamill was badass. And the earnestness in his performance always put a smile in my face (something that Ford's Solo, while good, never quite did).

 

Driver finally sits well with his role, playing a conflicted character toying with his role with the Force. And I liked how the film teased blurring the boundaries between Jedi/Sith, good/bad, etc. Just wish it embraced that angle more.

 

Snoke looks and sounds much better here, but his death seemed meaningless.

 

Yoda's cameo was pointless, and he didn't look very good here. Rey was solid, Finn was underused, Poe was great and Laura Dern was Laura Dern (seemed like an odd bit of stunt casting). Gleeson's General Hux was also fun.

 

Overall, its a far messier film than TFA, but it boasts stronger highlights I guess.

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14 minutes ago, Jay said:

bothering to bring back Brienne of Tarth just to have her die

Kylo killing Snoke felt completely un-earned and stupid, maybe I missed something

 

Both very important events for Kylo Ren and Finn. I liked how Johnson dealt with the two characters that didn't work in TFA. Just kill them off.

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2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Both very important events for Kylo Ren and Finn. I liked how Johnson dealt with the two characters that didn't work in TFA. Just kill them off.

 

Right. Just seems odd in the big picture, considering how much Snoke's "emperor status" is teased in TFA. Guess it was good of Johnson to trim the fat.

 

Ren really took shape as a character in this film. 

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The movie tries to force you to like Rose through sheer will.  She didn't work for me at all.  

 

Putting Leia in a como to have Holdo take over for a while was just pointless bloat.

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He felt out of place in TFA, or at least you couldn't see his full potential, since they tried to play Ren up as TFA's Vader. But he's more his own character in this film, which I enjoyed.

 

Rose was fine. Holdo was distracting.

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@crocodilemade a point that I agree with, this film feels like it’s wrapping up the trilogy. 

 

My guess is maybe the next film jumps ahead much like the time gap between TPM and AOTC.

 

The movie felt too long and Phasma was given the Boba Fett testament. Until she made her appearance I’d forgotten she even existed.

 

Driver and Ridley do give solid performances. 

 

I thought it would have been better to put Finn and Poe together on an adventure but it’s looking like the latter is probably going to be the one who leads the resistance so he needed to be on the ship.

 

Holdo’s character was ok but when she stays behind I kept screaming in my mind to turn the ship around and ram Snoke’s destroyer. And Snoke, while he looked impressive was another waste. 

 

BB8 was too over the top in this film. 

 

The porgs werent that bad and I admit to laughing out loud when Chewie was trying to eat one and the Porg watching him had his lip quivering.

 

 

 

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Snoke was a useless placeholder. We never cared about him at all. By Jedi, the Emperor dying mattered. Snoke was as useless here as Steppenwolf in Justice League. No backstory. No reason to care, fear him, or take him seriously.

 

The Leia death fake-out was awful. I truly wish her character had received a graceful exit in this film.

 

I loved pretty much everything on the island with Luke and Rey. The explanation of the force was terrific.

 

I didn't like Rey's parents being nobodies. We get it. Greatness can come from anywhere. Don't care one bit. Wanted her lineage to matter. 

 

The music fit the film perfectly and I thought was mixed very well and very appropriately.

 

Rose seemed very forced. She never earned me caring about her as much as they tried to make it happen.

 

Laura Dern's character was also pointless and seemed only there to have some "hero" die by sacrificing herself.

 

Overall, I enjoyed it and will go see it again to better form my opinion. On first viewing though, The Force Awakens is undoubtedly a better film in my opinion.

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Just now, ZackR said:

Rose seemed very forced. She never earned me caring about her as much as they tried to make it happen.

 

Yes!  Exactly what I said!

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2 minutes ago, ZackR said:

I didn't like Rey's parents being nobodies. We get it. Greatness can come from anywhere. Don't care one bit. Wanted her lineage to matter. 

 

Sounds about right. Johnson wanted to piss off the crazy online "Luke's daughter" lunatics.

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I also agree that BB8 was overboard in this film.  He even randomly controls an AT-ST walker at one point.

 

5 minutes ago, ZackR said:

Snoke was a useless placeholder. We never cared about him at all. By Jedi, the Emperor dying mattered.

 

I think it just further cements Kylo Ren becoming the central villain, which wasn't as obvious in TFA.  It's not the same dynamic as it was between Vader, Emperor and Luke.  Thankfully this sets it up differently without feeling like a copy.

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I was kinda hoping when the porgs were looking at Luke’s Sabre and the one was jumping up and down on the power switch, it would turn on and take out the other porg.

 

I know, I’m a cruel jerk for even thinking that.

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2 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

 

Disagree 100%!

The "who's Rey's parents" thing was the most baffling aspect people latched onto and I'm glad TLJ didn't give in to fan service in this aspect. 

 

 

 

There may be some Harry Potter influence on some people's obsession with this aspect. That series kept fans in a state of suspense over blood relations from novel to novel, and it nurtured that same desire for catharsis in SW fandom.

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1 minute ago, Stefancos said:

 

I think Disney noticed Finn and Rey worked great in TFA, but the nature of the story in TLJ had them split up for the entire film. So they created a new "buddy" for Finn.

 

It clunky, the whole film is clunky, but it works for me.

 

 

It it would have worked better had Finn and Poe teamed up.

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