Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 I want to see Indygirl beat Mattress to a pulp. John, crumbs and mstrox 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,532 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I think it fits in fine with the overarching theme of confronting our pure-white idealistic heroes with a world that is much more grey than they previously thought and seeing how they react to it and adapt to their changed viewpoint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Holko said: I think it fits in fine with the overarching theme of confronting our pure-white idealistic heroes with a world that is much more grey than they previously thought and seeing how they react to it and adapt to their changed viewpoint. Sounds like Star Trek and Stargate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,953 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 6 minutes ago, Holko said: I think it fits in fine with the overarching theme of confronting our pure-white idealistic heroes with a world that is much more grey than they previously thought. But it isn't grey. That the movie is trying to tell you that, doesn't mean its true to the content of the film. Kylo Ren and The First Order are evil, and Luke, Rey and the Resistance are good - and this holds true throughout the film's entire runtime. As such, issues of morality of arms trades, when presented in such a fleeting glimpse, are nothing but thematic noise. When I saw that in the theater I was just about to cry out: "@#%^ off, movie!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, Demodex said: I'm done arguing with Mattris. He's crazy. I don't think anything good can come out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Indianagirl, Your aggressively demeaning and sarcastic tone makes me think that I have bruised your ego. I'm speaking to you as I would any random person in an internet forum. I did not change my tone because you are a woman, but you have clearly changed your tone because I am a man. Regardless, I am not "threatened" by you in any way. I was incorrect to state that the TJL is anti-capitalist. But Kathy Kennedy has, indeed, turned Star Wars into an SJW fest. Do you really not see it? If you want me to compile a list of examples, let me know. As others here have pointed out, novels (or any other form of elaboration or explanation) should not be required reading to understand the events of a film. Where in the film are illegal arms dealers shown being apathetic towards a casino? It's standard practice to physically discipline (and reward, usually with food) wild or untrained animals during training. The Canto Bight racing animals are shown being whipped with an electric shock device, presumably to get them to run faster. I suppose it's possible that the stable boys were at work or part of a training camp. But if the scene was meant to show "forced child labor", which I'm assuming it was, that is SJW in Star Wars. And most fans would agree that it does not belong. The Canto Bight getaway (and other scenes involving Rose and Holdo) wouldn't have been so awkward had the film-makers been more subtle about their agenda - or had expertly written the story/script. To answer your question, Kathy Kennedy does not care. But her bosses at Disney will care when the films continue to under-perform because the majority of the Star Wars fandom refuses to see them. You are correct about DeeJay's moral ambiguity. The problem is that Finn and Rose did not refute his statements regarding arms dealers. That scene was poorly written and awkward, to say the least. Luke Skywalker's representation in TLJ was somewhat unexpected. But I don't have a problem with him being disenchanted and demoralized. What I do have a problem with: Why did he leave clues to his whereabouts if he planned refuse the very people that need his help. Han had already been killed, and Leia was in immediate danger. And yet he still refused to go with Rey. It doesn't make any sense. How (in)convenient that Yoda shows up - after Rey leaves - and talks sense into him... so that he finally decides to help his friends. Perhaps Luke's intervention - to distract Kylo and the First Order so that Leia and the remaining Resistance fighters can escape - wouldn't have been required had Rose not stopped Finn from sacrificing himself to destroy the door laser. So Rose saved Finn, but indirectly got Luke Skywalker killed. Absurd, if you ask me. Kathleen Kennedy approved this nonsense. For Lucasfilm to be successful moving forward, Disney should fire her immediately - not because she's a woman - but because she's not doing her job properly. Her job being: To spearhead Lucasfilm, producing films that most people appreciate and want to see, and which make as much money as possible. crumbs and Manakin Skywalker 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Chen G. said: But it isn't grey. Kylo Ren and The First Order are evil, and Rey and the Resistance are good - and this holds true throughout the film's entire runtime. As such, issues of morality of arms trades, when presented in such a fleeting glimpse, are nothing but thematic noise. I'm okay with it if it goes somewhere in Episode 9, because it is an interesting idea. But I have a bad suspicion it'll be an abandoned loose end by Abrams, doomed to eventual anti-climactic resolution in EU oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 Indygirl is Rey, Mattris is Kylo Ren. Unlucky Bastard, mstrox and SteveMc 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,953 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Margo Channing said: I'm okay with it if it goes somewhere in Episode 9, because it is an interesting idea. But I have a bad suspicion it'll be an abandoned loose end by Abrams, doomed to eventual anti-climactic resolution in EU oblivion. It won't, and it shouldn't. The "ultimate good versus ultimate evil" theme is prevalent in fiction for a reason. Namely, that its not as irrelevant to the human condition as one might think: there are some pretty evil dudes out there, y'know... That's what gives these kinds of film series' their timelessness. You can have morally ambigious characters within such a film, but you can't morally undermine the entire struggle at the heart of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I don't see why people are so butthurt over something as simple as a movie. I enjoyed all 4 of the last films. And even if I didn't, well then that's my own problem. I don't need to be a fucking moron and call for a "boycott" or to "have Kathy Kennedy fired", because I have better things to concern myself with. "SWJ" this, and "SWJ" that... grow the fuck up! Not Mr. Big and crumbs 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,532 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I want to quote multiple parts of his new rent where he's completely and utterly wrong but I can't be bothered anymore. Child labour was introduced in TPM - is it SJW, too? Luke's map is a secret map to the first Jedi Temple which he did not intentionally leave for everyone to find. mstrox and crumbs 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 The difference is in TPM, Anakin is a slave and it gives him some background and motivation in subsequent chapters. In TLJ, I'm not sure why it's there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,953 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, Holko said: Child labour was introduced in TPM - is it SJW, too? Yeah, with a main character being the subject of such child labor. In The Last Jedi, its a throw-away element. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said: Indygirl is Rey, Mattris is Kylo Ren. Muad'Dib, Not Mr. Big, John and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Star Wars has always been just a clutter of tons of different themes and genres shoved together. That's what makes it interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 What's with all this talk of SWJ's? I thought people liked Star Wars jedis! Unlucky Bastard 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,953 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: Star Wars has always been just a clutter of tons of different themes and genres shoved together. That's what makes it interesting. Yeah, but they all usually feed into the overarching plot. Not so much with the Finn/Rose subplot in The Last Jedi... And its just one earmark among many of the the director's utter lack of self-restraint. Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,532 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Chen G. said: In The Last Jedi, its a throw-away element. There was no other space in the plot to show any normal planets with average people living on them, or any other kind of oppressed group, who we could return to at the end to show how Luke and the Resistance started to inspire them and suggest that a new generation of rebels is starting to form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,897 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Yeah, but they all usually feed into the overarching plot. Not so much with the Finn/Rose subplot in The Last Jedi... True, but it doesn't bother me enough to want to "boycott!!" or "fire Kathy Kennedy!!" or "Rian Johnson raped my childhood!!!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,716 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I have no idea what this SJW even is. And what does it have to do with Solo: A Star Wars Story? Indianagirl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 35 minutes ago, Holko said: There was no space in the plot to show any normal planets with average people living on them, or any other kind of oppressed group, who we could return to at the end to show how Luke and the Resistance started to inspire them and suggest that a new generation of rebels is starting to form. Correct. That type of scene could not tastefully be shown in the film Rian Johnson made. But it could be in the opening crawl of Ep. 9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said: True, but it doesn't arouse me enough to fantasize about "Kathy Kennedy raped Rian Johnson!". There we go, helped make this thread more interesting. You're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,532 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 23 minutes ago, Mattris said: Correct. That type of scene could not tastefully be shown in the film Rian Johnson made. But it could be explained in the opening crawl of Ep. 9. Accidentally left out an important word - no other place in the plot. So, you think the moral of this movie should have been "the Resistance is completely beaten and they had to retreat", and leave the very important "their true purpose was inspiring people and planting the idea of rebellion instead of singlehandedly trying to bring down a war machine on a suicide mission" plot thread to a few words in front of the next one? Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 34 minutes ago, Mattris said: Indianagirl, Your aggressively demeaning and sarcastic tone makes me think that I have bruised your ego. I'm speaking to you as I would any random person in an internet forum. I did not change my tone because you are a woman, but you have clearly changed your tone because I am a man. Regardless, I am not "threatened" by you in any way. I was incorrect to state that the TJL is anti-capitalist. But Kathy Kennedy has, indeed, turned Star Wars into an SJW fest. Do you really not see it? If you want me to compile a list of examples, let me know. As others here have pointed out, novels (or any other form of elaboration or explanation) should not be required reading to understand the events of a film. Where in the film are illegal arms dealers shown being apathetic towards a casino? It's standard practice to physically discipline (and reward, usually with food) wild or untrained animals during training. The Canto Bight racing animals are shown being whipped with an electric shock device, presumably to get them to run faster. I suppose it's possible that the stable boys were at work or part of a training camp. But if the scene was meant to show "forced child labor", which I'm assuming it was, that is SJW in Star Wars. And most fans would agree that it does not belong. The Canto Bight getaway (and other scenes involving Rose and Holdo) wouldn't have been so awkward had the film-makers been more subtle about their agenda - or had expertly written the story/script. To answer your question, Kathy Kennedy does not care. But her bosses at Disney will care when the films continue to under-perform because the majority of the Star Wars fandom refuses to see them. You are correct about DeeJay's moral ambiguity. The problem is that Finn and Rose did not refute his statements regarding arms dealers. That scene was poorly written and awkward, to say the least. Luke Skywalker's representation in TLJ was somewhat unexpected. But I don't have a problem with him being disenchanted and demoralized. What I do have a problem with: Why did he leave clues to his whereabouts if he planned refuse the very people that need his help. Han had already been killed, and Leia was in immediate danger. And yet he still refused to go with Rey. It doesn't make any sense. How (in)convenient that Yoda shows up - after Rey leaves - and talks sense into him... so that he finally decides to help his friends. Perhaps Luke's 'presence' (to distract Kylo and the First Order so that Leia and the remaining Resistance fighters can escape) wouldn't have been required had Rose not stopped Finn from sacrificing himself to destroy the door laser. So Rose saved Finn, but indirectly got Luke Skywalker killed. Amateur writing from Rian Johnson. Kathleen Kennedy approved this nonsense. For Lucasfilm to be successful moving forward, it's pretty clear to me that Disney should fire her immediately - not because she's a woman - but because she's not doing her job properly. Her job being: To spearhead Lucasfilm, producing films that most people appreciate and want to see, making as much money as possible. If your canoe is stuck in a tree with the headlights on, how many pancakes does it take to get to the moon? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 He's been inculcated with a rigid set of beliefs and scripts to run through that make him impervious to any of our attempts at engaging with him. . I've spent some time watching those anti-Last Jedi/Rian Johsnon/Disney/Kathleen Kennedy Youtube videos, and lord is it depressing. It's really its own hermetically-sealed little world. The alt-lite/neo-reactionary assumptions about the state of Western culture are an integral part, and if you don't share those, it's like listening to babble. Holko and Not Mr. Big 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 29 minutes ago, Chen G. said: But it isn't grey. That the movie is trying to tell you that, doesn't mean its true to the content of the film. Kylo Ren and The First Order are evil, Is Kylo Ren evil? I don't think so. I think he's a broken kid. If I had to guess, and this is only a guess, I would bet he turns in the end. Otherwise Han's sacrafice is meaningless. I suspect he turns and just after he turns Hux kills him thus completing the tragedy that is Kylo Ren. But who really knows these things? 46 minutes ago, Chen G. said: But its not just the character who is making this argument, now is it? its the film itself that's making the argument. Is the film making the argument? Or is the film setting up the question to be answered unconditionally at a later date? I think a lot of rash judgments have been made regarding TLJ and it's allowed for a type of hysteria to set in. I would urge patience here. I really would. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Anyone else have intrusive thoughts about Rey restraining and violating Kylo Ren or am I just a SJW now because of Kathleen Kennedy? crumbs and Unlucky Bastard 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 You're not a SJW, you're a TGP! And if Rey is be to restraining and violating anyone, it had better be me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,953 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 11 minutes ago, Indianagirl said: Is Kylo Ren evil? Let's see... Killed children. commited patricide. attempted avunculicide (twice!). attempted matricide. Yeah, that's pretty damn evil by my count. A character who does those things is beyond redemption: there are a few things in cinema that are as satisfying as seeing such a villain meet a grim ending. That's what should (and will) happen with Kylo Ren. Its no less effective because we can see it coming. Quote Is the film making the argument? Or is the film setting up the question to be answered unconditionally at a later date? Rian Johnson does very little to set-up things to be answered in Episode IX, which is apt because he has absolutely no hand in making it. Whatever JJ Abrams decides to do won't change this film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Let's see... Killed children. commited patricide. attempted avunculicide (twice!). attempted matricide. Yeah, that's pretty damn evil by my count. A character who does those things is beyond redemption: there are a few things in cinema that are as satisfying as seeing such a villain meet a grim ending. That's what should (and will) happen with Kylo Ren. I guess you aren't familiar with Bram Stoker's Dracula? Or ANAKIN SKYWALKER? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Something tells me Kathleen will never allow Rey to be sexualised on screen... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 minute ago, Margo Channing said: Something tells me Kathleen will never allow Rey to be sexualised on screen... It's called daydreaming, dude. Give it a shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Margo Channing said: Something tells me Kathleen will never allow Rey to be sexualised on screen... Not even as a powerful, conquering alpha female? Wife's been away for a few days in case anyone can't tell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,953 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 7 minutes ago, Margo Channing said: Something tells me Kathleen will never allow Rey to be sexualised on screen... Also true, but whether that's good or bad is another whole discussion. 7 minutes ago, Indianagirl said: Or ANAKIN SKYWALKER? When Return of the Jedi happened, the details of Vader's crimes weren't formed in George Lucas' mind, and they certainly weren't shown to us the audience as Kylo's are. That makes all the difference in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 3 minutes ago, Chen G. said: When Return of the Jedi happened, the details of Vader's crimes weren't formed in George Lucas' mind, and they certainly weren't shown to us the audience as Kylo's are. That makes all the difference in the world. Oh please. If you don't know that Kylo is a broken kid....I dont' know what to tell you. You've missed the whole thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,953 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 If you want to talk about ridiculous fan expectations which amount to little more than a re-enactment of the original films, than having Kylo redeem himself has to be #1. In many ways, its the first thing Rian Johnson aptly set to undermine, by making us believe Kylo is still conflicted where in fact his resolve was never stronger, as we are clearly shown in the end of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Just now, Chen G. said: If you want to talk about fan expectations stemming from their desire to see the original films re-enacted, than having Kylo redeem himself has to be #1. In many ways, its the first thing Rian Johnson set to undermine, by making us believe Kylo is still conflicted where in fact his resolve was never stronger. Interesting. And maybe. But I don't think so. Luke knew how to drive Kylo over the edge by telling him Han would always be a part of him. Snoke said the deed of killing his father shattered him. He's clearly a confused angry kid who is completely torn apart inside. Rian Johnson didn't set out to undermine. Rian Johnson set out to challenge. Not necessarily change but to challenge. His resolve is strong but he couldn't bring himself to destroy Rey. There is more at play than we know. Again.....patience. 8 minutes ago, Chen G. said: If you want to talk about ridiculous fan expectations which amount to little more than a re-enactment of the original films, than having Kylo redeem himself has to be #1. I would of completely agreed with this after episode 7. But not after 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,953 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Its all a misdirect on the part of the director: Kylo is planning on usurping Snoke from very early on in the film. The only real hesitation we see is him not blowing up his mother, but in the end of the film he commands her hideout be stormed with "no quarter". 6 minutes ago, Indianagirl said: There is more at play than we know. That's just the thing: there isn't. There never has been. None of the Star Wars trilogies, including this one, ever had a grand master-plan set out in advance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,319 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Ren will go down with the First Order, he ain't being redeemed. JJ will be subverting almost every key plot point that ROTJ did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: That's just the thing: there isn't. There never has been. None of the Star Wars trilogies, including this one, ever had a grand master-plan set out in advance. That's just not true. If you're paying close attention to the Canon (films,animations,books,comics,etc) you will realize the folly of that statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Mattris said: Indianagirl, Your aggressively demeaning and sarcastic tone makes me think that I have bruised your ego. I'm speaking to you as I would any random person in an internet forum. I did not change my tone because you are a woman, but you have clearly changed your tone because I am a man. Regardless, I am not "threatened" by you in any way. I was incorrect to state that the TJL is anti-capitalist. But Kathy Kennedy has, indeed, turned Star Wars into an SJW fest. Do you really not see it? If you want me to compile a list of examples, let me know. As others here have pointed out, novels (or any other form of elaboration or explanation) should not be required reading to understand the events of a film. Where in the film are illegal arms dealers shown being apathetic towards a casino? It's standard practice to physically discipline (and reward, usually with food) wild or untrained animals during training. The Canto Bight racing animals are shown being whipped with an electric shock device, presumably to get them to run faster. I suppose it's possible that the stable boys were at work or part of a training camp. But if the scene was meant to show "forced child labor", which I'm assuming it was, that is SJW in Star Wars. And most fans would agree that it does not belong. The Canto Bight getaway (and other scenes involving Rose and Holdo) wouldn't have been so awkward had the film-makers been more subtle about their agenda - or had expertly written the story/script. To answer your question, Kathy Kennedy does not care. But her bosses at Disney will care when the films continue to under-perform because the majority of the Star Wars fandom refuses to see them. You are correct about DeeJay's moral ambiguity. The problem is that Finn and Rose did not refute his statements regarding arms dealers. That scene was poorly written and awkward, to say the least. Luke Skywalker's representation in TLJ was somewhat unexpected. But I don't have a problem with him being disenchanted and demoralized. What I do have a problem with: Why did he leave clues to his whereabouts if he planned refuse the very people that need his help. Han had already been killed, and Leia was in immediate danger. And yet he still refused to go with Rey. It doesn't make any sense. How (in)convenient that Yoda shows up - after Rey leaves - and talks sense into him... so that he finally decides to help his friends. Perhaps Luke's intervention - to distract Kylo and the First Order so that Leia and the remaining Resistance fighters can escape - wouldn't have been required had Rose not stopped Finn from sacrificing himself to destroy the door laser. So Rose saved Finn, but indirectly got Luke Skywalker killed. Absurd, if you ask me. Kathleen Kennedy approved this nonsense. For Lucasfilm to be successful moving forward, Disney should fire her immediately - not because she's a woman - but because she's not doing her job properly. Her job being: To spearhead Lucasfilm, producing films that most people appreciate and want to see, and which make as much money as possible. To quote (again) the immortal Captain Kirk, 'GET A FUCKING LIFE!' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Indianagirl 298 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I didn't even see that lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,319 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 42 minutes ago, Margo Channing said: Something tells me Kathleen will never allow Rey to be sexualised on screen... Haven't you heard? Kathy has an extremist left-wing, feminist, fascist, anti-male agenda. In IX, Kylo will be depicted as sexually submissive in a controversial scene where Rey punishes him with a lightsaber whip, wearing Padme's leather-clad fireplace outfit from AOTC. Williams will write a concert suite for the sequence called Fifty Shades of Grey Jedi. Chen G., Kasey Kockroach, Holko and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 12 hours ago, Indianagirl said: Kitten, What's the matter? Did I bruise your ego? Is that why you needed to Mansplain to me? Have you been ranting The Last Jedi is anti-capitalist tripe and how Kathy Kennedy has turned Star Wars into an SJW fest to the same fanboys club for so long that when I came along and challenged you with actual facts from the novels and the film itself you felt threatened? Is this why you needed to put silly little me in my place? I know I should probably of asked my husband's permission to come here and speak my mind but seeing I don't have a husband to think for me maybe I should just put my trust in you for now. You can think for me on the important ramifications of an SJW Star Wars so all I will have to worry about is what to make for dinner. What a relief this will be for me. I feel liberated already knowing Canto Bight is nothing more than a Social Justice moment that has no place in a Star Wars movie. A MAN just told me that a Star Wars movie displaying a corrupt group of illegal arms dealers who are shown being apathetic towards a casino that beats animals and enslaves children for the purposes of forced child labor is nothing more than SOCIAL JUSTICE WARRING! How dare they? Does Kathy Kennedy not realize this is the type of moral judgement that makes men like Mattris uncomfortable? Or does she just not care? The blurred lines between good and evil are unbearable. I feel embarrased for having tried to think on my own when DJ said to Finn that good guys and bad guys are all the same. I never realized I wasn't supposed to try and read between the lines to recognize DJ was a morally ambiguous character whose so-called wisdom or mantra shouldn't be trusted. I am so glad that Mattris was here to correct my thinking on this. I now clearly see that Rian Johnson was using that moment to say unequivocally there is no difference between good and evil. Thank you, Mattris. Thank you for correcting me. I would go on further to say how Luke's representation in TLJ works perfectly in the context of Joseph Campbell's The Heroes Journey....but who am I kidding? I need to get back to the kitchen and reavaluate myself over a hot stove. 10 hours ago, Mattris said: Indianagirl, Your aggressively demeaning and sarcastic tone makes me think that I have bruised your ego. I'm speaking to you as I would any random person in an internet forum. I did not change my tone because you are a woman, but you have clearly changed your tone because I am a man. Regardless, I am not "threatened" by you in any way. I was incorrect to state that the TJL is anti-capitalist. But Kathy Kennedy has, indeed, turned Star Wars into an SJW fest. Do you really not see it? If you want me to compile a list of examples, let me know. As others here have pointed out, novels (or any other form of elaboration or explanation) should not be required reading to understand the events of a film. Where in the film are illegal arms dealers shown being apathetic towards a casino? It's standard practice to physically discipline (and reward, usually with food) wild or untrained animals during training. The Canto Bight racing animals are shown being whipped with an electric shock device, presumably to get them to run faster. I suppose it's possible that the stable boys were at work or part of a training camp. But if the scene was meant to show "forced child labor", which I'm assuming it was, that is SJW in Star Wars. And most fans would agree that it does not belong. The Canto Bight getaway (and other scenes involving Rose and Holdo) wouldn't have been so awkward had the film-makers been more subtle about their agenda - or had expertly written the story/script. To answer your question, Kathy Kennedy does not care. But her bosses at Disney will care when the films continue to under-perform because the majority of the Star Wars fandom refuses to see them. You are correct about DeeJay's moral ambiguity. The problem is that Finn and Rose did not refute his statements regarding arms dealers. That scene was poorly written and awkward, to say the least. Luke Skywalker's representation in TLJ was somewhat unexpected. But I don't have a problem with him being disenchanted and demoralized. What I do have a problem with: Why did he leave clues to his whereabouts if he planned refuse the very people that need his help. Han had already been killed, and Leia was in immediate danger. And yet he still refused to go with Rey. It doesn't make any sense. How (in)convenient that Yoda shows up - after Rey leaves - and talks sense into him... so that he finally decides to help his friends. Perhaps Luke's intervention - to distract Kylo and the First Order so that Leia and the remaining Resistance fighters can escape - wouldn't have been required had Rose not stopped Finn from sacrificing himself to destroy the door laser. So Rose saved Finn, but indirectly got Luke Skywalker killed. Absurd, if you ask me. Kathleen Kennedy approved this nonsense. For Lucasfilm to be successful moving forward, Disney should fire her immediately - not because she's a woman - but because she's not doing her job properly. Her job being: To spearhead Lucasfilm, producing films that most people appreciate and want to see, and which make as much money as possible. Considering that you tried to Womansplain to me in such an aggressive, personal way, you should have been looking for my response. For convenience, I quoted our posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 Kitten, I think that what I'm saying is that: sometimes, shit happens, someone has to deal with it, and who ya gonna call? Indianagirl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1_freeze 131 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 4 hours ago, Demodex said: I'm done arguing with Mattris. He's crazy. To be honest, Mattris is right in a lot of his points about TLJ. And he didnt even mention all the issues i had with the political backstory and worldbuilding, which made no sense at all too. In fact your only response to all my points was to read a lackluster book called bloodlines where there is an incredible stupid explanation for the New Republic fiasco. Why call people crazy instead of starting a serious discussion about the countless points that have been brought up? Probably you dont want to admit that most of the posted issues that people have with TLJ and to a lower extent TFA are REAL. Now it seems you dont have any arguments left and your only way out is to dismiss all those who have another opinion than you. (or you dont reply at all) 1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said: I don't see why people are so butthurt over something as simple as a movie. I enjoyed all 4 of the last films. And even if I didn't, well then that's my own problem. I don't need to be a fucking moron and call for a "boycott" or to "have Kathy Kennedy fired", because I have better things to concern myself with. "SWJ" this, and "SWJ" that... grow the fuck up! FFS, obviously a fan cares...THATS WHY HE IS A FAN. Otherwise he would be a moviegoer like you who ultimately doesnt care and only wants to be superficially entertained, because its just a stupid lame movie. You even seem to imply that people should stop being fans of something... if there were no fans Hollywood could kiss their money goodbye. They need people who watch their films 3-4 times. Mattris and justaguy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Indianagirl 298 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, Mattris said: you should have been looking for my response. Awwe, Is the Big Strong Man telling me what to do? For He has spoken and expects this little girl to properly adhere to His word? Yes, Sir! Daddy says jump! Kitten, I really have no interest in responding to the entirity of your post. But let me tell you why.... 1 hour ago, Mattris said: But if the scene was meant to show "forced child labor", which I'm assuming it was, that is SJW in Star Wars. And most fans would agree that it does not belong. You just reduced a slave labor force made up of children to a common SJW. Do you have even a clue of how reprehensible this is? You've essentially said we can't show child slavery in Star Wars because it might offend someone who supports child slavery. This is the heart of your argument and shows you to be morally bankrupt. I promise you this is the only thing you've said all night that I'm going to remember. Any argument you might have made regarding Star Wars and SJW's is definitely null and void now. You've revealed yourself to be a person who will say anything, no matter how despicable, just to press an agenda. Oh and by the way I hope you know you can't ever watch Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom again and hold a shred of intellectual honesty. We're done here. Holko, Taikomochi, Demodex and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post publicist 4,643 Posted May 31, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted May 31, 2018 31 minutes ago, SF1_freeze said: Why call people crazy instead of starting a serious discussion about the countless points that have been brought up? You mean countless points that have been brought up countless times before, regurgitated since last December ad nauseaum, their re-appearance now only an outlet for idiotic chest-beating at the sight of 'Solo' underperforming at the box office (finally a just punishment to that filthy wench Kennedy!). All of this is intellectually toxic and wholly embarrassing, to say the least. Holko, Bilbo, Taikomochi and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SF1_freeze 131 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 1 hour ago, publicist said: You mean countless points that have been brought up countless times before, regurgitated since last December ad nauseaum, their re-appearance now only an outlet for idiotic chest-beating at the sight of 'Solo' underperforming at the box office (finally a just punishment to that filthy wench Kennedy!). All of this is intellectually toxic and wholly embarrassing, to say the least. The prequels are bashed since their release...that may be intellectually toxic and wholly embarrassing not TLJ critizism months after its release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 2 hours ago, SF1_freeze said: Probably you dont want to admit that most of the posted issues that people have with TLJ and to a lower extent TFA are REAL. I don't admit that they're real. Even if they were, who cares? It's a great movie. I'm done because we're not going to change anyone's minds, and I am bored reading Mattress's page long tirades because his ego is hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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