Star Wars Disenchantment

[greenturnedblue 372]

48 minutes ago, mstrox said:

and as long as you never release the expanded soundtracks

And definitely do not ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, for any reason, never ever do not ever release the original unaltered versions of the films!

[Jurassic Shark 12,084]

10 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

never ever do not ever release the original unaltered versions of the films!

 

They weren't finished.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said:

And definitely do not ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, for any reason, never ever do not ever release the original unaltered versions of the films!

Beat me to it!

[bored 309]

But George's vision was Maclunky!

[Mattris 416]

10 hours ago, bored said:

But what role does Greedo have in this master plan? Are the multiple Greedos just multiple versions who have been murdered by Han in various Maclunky shooting orders? Are the special editions really George's eventual plan for Star Wars multiverse? 

 

Only Mattris has the answers...

 

I don't perceive Greedo to be important to the story. I do prefer the original film: Han Solo was threatened at gunpoint and shot in self-defense.

 

8 hours ago, JTW said:

If Lucas planned everything all along, why didn’t Disney use his story treatments for the sequel trilogy? Or they did, only Lucas says they didn’t? And he said so because… he wants us to believe that the new story isn’t his, while it in fact is? Why would he want us to believe it isn’t?

 

Distraction and underestimation.

 

8 hours ago, JTW said:

And if it isn’t, how could it be what he planned all along? 

 

The possibility that George Lucas was told by the Disney/Lucasfilm executives that they weren't going forward with his sequel treatment - but, in fact, did - is so remote, it treads into the territory of absurdity. They lied to Lucas about breaking a promise? Nonsense.

 

8 hours ago, Tallguy said:

Why is George pretending to be weak when he is actually strong. Who is he trying to defeat? Other than us? And he did that just fine while appearing to be at the height of his powers.

 

Could you rephrase?

[JTN 2,042]

What does it mean to you? And what doesn’t? And if it doesn’t, why? And why not? So just tell me. Why? And why not? That is the question. Star Wars. The Force. Force Wars. Star Force. The. Why. ?

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

On 27/01/2024 at 4:52 AM, Mattris said:

So the Lucasfilm Story Group is not doing their job? The Star Wars story is a baton passed from one person to the next, haphazardly?

Pablo Hidalgo (the scapegoat for whoever wants to throw names) said time and again that the story group only tells each creative what has been done and if this story will contradict something, but the creative can do with that information as it pleases. It could lead to smart retcons like Maarva's lie about Andor being from Fest, or complete disregard like whatever they did with Kanan in Bad Batch.

[Mattris 416]

Pablo Hidalgo also confirmed in one of his published books (Star Wars: Fascinating Facts) that, for the sequel trilogy, Lucasfilm used important elements of George Lucas' sequel treatment that he left to the company in 2012. Contrary to popular assumption, JJ Abrams was not allowed to do whatever he wanted in TFA and TROS. Same goes for Rian Johnson's installment.

 

The Lucasfilm Story Group is beholden to Kathleen Kennedy and the head(s) of the Lucasfilm creative department. Logically, its members don't simply tell the new story-writing contractors "what has been done and if this story will contradict something" previously told in the story and allow them to make up something off the top of their heads, which is soon entered into the canon and sent to the presses.

 

I'd have to read exactly what Hidalgo said, but think about it: Him knowing what it means for something to 'contradict' something else implies that certain contents previously established in the story mean something. (Rest assured, they do.) The individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes... in addition to 'fitting in' chronologically so the audience can connect the dots volume-to-volume, filling in the narrative timeline.

 

A great deal of effort goes into the multi-hundred-page Star Wars novels. (For example, the film novelizations are not simply the screenplays in novel form. They are a unique telling of each Saga Episode, scattered with elements that couldn't be conveyed in the films alone.) The Star Wars novels are filled with intriguing stuff (context, clues, hints, etc.) that prove to me that the Lucasfilm Story Group is doing its job very well. Noticing and making sense of these particular things takes a keen eye and a certain... well, you all know the rest.

[Chen G. 3,950]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

for the sequel trilogy, Lucasfilm used important elements of George Lucas' sequel treatment that he left to the company in 2012.

 

That is correct. Those elements were, however, almost entirely in Episode VII.

[greenturnedblue 372]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

The individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes...

That's nice. Citation?

[Tallguy 3,401]

On 29/01/2024 at 1:55 AM, Mattris said:

Distraction and underestimation.

 

To what end? Disney makes movies / TV shows that under perform to. what, soften up the audience? So they never knew what hit 'em?

 

You claim that George is playing some kind of rope-a-dope with... The audience? Intentionally making it appear that he is "weak". The appearance that the Star Wars creative universe is in something of a shambles is all a ruse. All part of the plan as they say.

 

Why? From a creative point of view it's not telling a better story. From a financial point of view it's not making more money.

[JTN 2,042]

It's like when you trip in front of everybody and you say "I did it on purpose" to save face. 

Gimli: That was deliberate, it was deliberate!

 

(Wrong franchise, right analogy.)

[Mr. Hooper 1,801]

12 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

To what end? Disney makes movies / TV shows that under perform to. what, soften up the audience? So they never knew what hit 'em?

 

You claim that George is playing some kind of rope-a-dope with... The audience? Intentionally making it appear that he is "weak". The appearance that the Star Wars creative universe is in something of a shambles is all a ruse. All part of the plan as they say.

 

Why? From a creative point of view it's not telling a better story. From a financial point of view it's not making more money.

I hope you're not waiting for reasonable answers to your reasonable questions.

[Tallguy 3,401]

Just now, Mr. Hooper said:

I hope you're not waiting for reasonable answers to your reasonable questions.

 

I thought that with every damn key I pressed to type that post. I don't know what's happening here, but its insidiousness is remarkable.

 

[Mr. Hooper 1,801]

2 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

I thought that with every damn key I pressed to type that post. I don't know what's happening here, but its insidiousness is remarkable.

[Tallguy 3,401]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said:

 

I'm pretty sure if some fan made some kind of Adventures with Palpatine thing it would not look worse than that did. How did ANYONE think that looked OK? And why did they then stuff it into The Empire Strikes Back?

[Demodex 557]

8 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

To what end? Disney makes movies / TV shows that under perform to. what, soften up the audience? So they never knew what hit 'em?

 

You claim that George is playing some kind of rope-a-dope with... The audience? Intentionally making it appear that he is "weak". The appearance that the Star Wars creative universe is in something of a shambles is all a ruse. All part of the plan as they say.

 

Why? From a creative point of view it's not telling a better story. From a financial point of view it's not making more money.

 

Please don't feed the troll

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

Yeah there’s really no point in engaging anymore. Every time someone points out that George Lucas admitted to lying about having a master plan, Mattris just ignores it so he can keep playing pretend.

[JTN 2,042]

Exactly. Ignoring him is the only right thing to do. If he can't argue with anyone, he'll buzz off eventually.

[ThePenitentMan1 744]

But then what are we going to do for fun?

[Edmilson 7,470]

Yep. This thread provided great entertainment during the past few weeks, especially since it's kind of a dead period for movies, scores, etc. Please, don't stop!

[JTN 2,042]

12 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

But then what are we going to do for fun?

Everything else? 

[Tallguy 3,401]

34 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

But then what are we going to do for fun?

 

Watch Star Wars?

[Chen G. 3,950]

37 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

But then what are we going to do for fun?

 

Food?

[Edmilson 7,470]

41 minutes ago, JTW said:

Everything else? 

Nah

 

19 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

 

Watch Star Wars?

Already seen it.

 

17 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Food?

Too expensive.

 

Sorry, but this thread has amazing entertaining and comedic values. It's the funniest place on JWFan these days! Keep going 

[Chen G. 3,950]

Just now, Edmilson said:

It's the funniest place on JWFan these days!

 

Oh, by far! 

[Mr. Hooper 1,801]

12 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Sorry, but this thread has amazing entertaining and comedic values. It's the funniest place on JWFan these days! Keep going

 

12 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Oh, by far! 

Hey, we're trying really hard over on the John Williams Caption Competition thread to be intentionally funny. Give us more love, please. 

[JTN 2,042]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Nah

Try sex.

[Brando 1,864]

3 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said:

But then what are we going to do for fun?

Go to the Indiana Jones disenchantment thread!

[Edmilson 7,470]

3 hours ago, JTW said:

Try sex.

I appreciate it, but you're not my type 

 

2 hours ago, Brando said:

Go to the Indiana Jones disenchantment thread!

Only if Mattriss goes there too. But I don't think he cares about Indiana Jones as much as he does about Star Wars, does he?

[Brando 1,864]

5 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

But I don't think he cares about Indiana Jones as much as he do about Star Wars, does he?

I don't wanna know

[Edmilson 7,470]

Btw, out of the 9,581 posts on this thread, 1,073 belong to Matriss. That means about 11.2% of the posts here are from him. I think it's one of the bigger ratios for a long thread in the forum!

[Datameister 2,044]

And don't forget that his (purported) interpretation of things is shockingly optimistic compared to most conspiracy theories.

 

Lucasfilm has spent the last 50 years methodically deceiving the public in order to … help us eventually derive more enjoyment and meaning from their films! It's actually kind of sweet!

[Brando 1,864]

7 minutes ago, Edmilson said:

Btw, out of the 9,581 posts on this thread, 1,073 belong to Matriss. That means about 11.2% of the posts here are from him.

[Mr. Hooper 1,801]

1 hour ago, Brando said:

Go to the Indiana Jones disenchantment thread!

 

 

Yes, and as the barkeep over there, I welcome you to come in and have a drink with a steaming bowl of our famous "Disenchantment Chowder"—which is actually just a New England-style clam chowder in a bread bowl.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Jay 37,373]

Make that corn chowder and I'm in

[Mattris 416]

On 30/01/2024 at 7:33 AM, Chen G. said:

That is correct. Those elements were, however, almost entirely in Episode VII.

 

Almost entirely? You make it sound like George Lucas' plan to have Luke Skywalker die in Episode VIII was an afterthought. Assumption that the few major elements Hildago noted in his book were the only ones carried over is beyond naive.

 

On 30/01/2024 at 8:57 AM, greenturnedblue said:

That's nice. Citation?

 

Over the years, I've cited more than enough to indicate I'm on the right track, with an objectively superior interpretation of the story. It's implied in the telling of the story that "the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes."  Do you really expect Lucasfilm to outright confirm it in language like that?

 

Why don't you provide evidence that the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon adhere to no trajectory or overall vision... because they either never existed or have changed? Heck, I'll even accept logical reasoning... and then explain why you're likely wrong. (It wouldn't be the first time.)

 

On 30/01/2024 at 9:52 AM, Tallguy said:

To what end? Disney makes movies / TV shows that under perform to. what, soften up the audience? So they never knew what hit 'em?

 

You claim that George is playing some kind of rope-a-dope with... The audience? Intentionally making it appear that he is "weak". The appearance that the Star Wars creative universe is in something of a shambles is all a ruse. All part of the plan as they say.

 

Why? From a creative point of view it's not telling a better story. From a financial point of view it's not making more money.

 

The majority of Star Wars projects 'underperform' because the audience doesn't understand what they're watching. I think Lucasfilm have always been telling the story they want, not producing content that will make them the most money... not in the short-term, anyway.

 

The money will come later. But that's not Lucasfilm's primary motivation, nor was it George Lucas'.

 

On 30/01/2024 at 10:04 AM, JTW said:

It's like when you trip in front of everybody and you say "I did it on purpose" to save face.

 

Gimli: That was deliberate, it was deliberate!

 

(Wrong franchise, right analogy.)

 

Wrong analogy. (They did not trip.)

 

On 30/01/2024 at 10:06 AM, Mr. Hooper said:

I hope you're not waiting for reasonable answers to your reasonable questions.

 

What did I say that was unreasonable? What of the popular explanation of Star Wars is reasonable? That Lucas and/or 'the new Lucasfilm' are utterly incompetent?

 

20 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

Yeah there’s really no point in engaging anymore. Every time someone points out that George Lucas admitted to lying about having a master plan, Mattris just ignores it so he can keep playing pretend.

 

If you concede that "George Lucas admitted to lying about having a master plan", then why can't you fathom that he lied about being betrayed and his sequel treatments going unused?

 

14 hours ago, JTW said:

Exactly. Ignoring him is the only right thing to do. If he can't argue with anyone, he'll buzz off eventually.

 

People here tend to "buzz off" when they are unable to present legitimate counter-evidence. I don't know why it's thought that surface-level interpretations and assumptions are likely to be 'right' when trying to understand a story like Star Wars.

 

"We cannot afford to take mythology at face value."   - Indiana Jones

 

8 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Already seen it.

 

And what did you get out of Star Wars? Why do you still care about it? Why do you think so many people still love it?

 

5 hours ago, Datameister said:

And don't forget that his (purported) interpretation of things is shockingly optimistic compared to most conspiracy theories.

 

Lucasfilm has spent the last 50 years methodically deceiving the public in order to … help us eventually derive more enjoyment and meaning from their films! It's actually kind of sweet!

 

I couldn't have said it better myself!

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

2 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said:

Yes, and as the barkeep over there, I welcome you to come in and have a drink with a steaming bowl of our famous "Disenchantment Chowder"—which is actually just a New England-style clam chowder in a bread bowl.

 

 

Ngl, that's making me hungry.

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

I don’t know guys, I didn’t find much entertainment in this most recent Mattris post.

[greenturnedblue 372]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Over the years, I've cited more than enough to indicate I'm on the right track, with an objectively superior interpretation of the story. It's implied in the telling of the story that "the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes."  Do you really expect Lucasfilm to outright confirm it in language like that?

 

I ask for a citation and you just paste in the same exact thing? lol

[Datameister 2,044]

 

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

I don’t know guys, I didn’t find much entertainment in this most recent Mattris post.

 

Well there's no accounting for taste. 😉 After all, even a pile of shit can make for a pretty entertaining scene!

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said:

I don’t know guys, I didn’t find much entertainment in this most recent Mattris post.

 

Entertained or not, I asked you a question.

 

1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said:

I ask for a citation and you just paste in the same exact thing? lol

 

You asked for a citation that is implied  in long-form storytelling. lol

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

42 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Entertained or not, I asked you a question.

Oh please. This is hardly the first time either one of us has ignored the other’s questions.

[greenturnedblue 372]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

a citation that is implied  in long-form storytelling

 

That's not what a citation is.. I can't submit a PhD dissertation without any citations and say there are no references, Dr, because they are implied through storytelling.

[Mattris 416]

3 hours ago, A. A. Ron said:

Oh please. This is hardly the first time either one of us has ignored the other’s questions.

 

What question of yours did I ignore?  If you can't find one, it's only fair that you answer my latest: 

 

If you concede that "George Lucas admitted to lying about having a master plan", why can't you fathom that he lied about being betrayed and his sequel treatments going unused?

 

2 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

That's not what a citation is.. I can't submit a PhD dissertation without any citations and say there are no references, Dr, because they are implied through storytelling.

 

That's just it. I am not constructing a PhD dissertation. I'm presenting evidence and logical reasoning to support theories concerning the interpretation of a story, as well as its presentation. Whether or not it was noted by Lucasfilm that "the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes" is irrelevant. My point is that many if not, most - of the Star Wars audience would doubt any claim of this sort, regardless of who said it. The masses simply can't fathom that they don't understand Star Wars.  So they feel justified to be disenchanted and complain. ('My displeasure is someone else's fault!')

 

My claim is  'implied through the story'. The inverse is not: that the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon do not  adhere to a trajectory, vision, or grander themes of a story being told. My logic is sound, and I have provided canon evidence to back up my assessments and theories.

 

To conclude otherwise without factual evidence - or at the very least, by way of literal canon excerpts - would be entirely assumptive, therefore, illogical.

 

But you can show me the (possible) error of my ways:  Simply provide evidence that supports your position.

[greenturnedblue 372]

6 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I'm presenting evidence

OK... what evidence?

[JTN 2,042]

13 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I appreciate it, but you're not my type 

With your current profile pic, you’re not mine, either. 

[Mattris 416]

3 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

OK... what evidence?

 

I posted a great deal of evidence in this very topic, starting years ago. What about you?

 

As for your requested citations, these pages contain pertinent quotes from authoritative individuals, as well as a comprehensive rundown of the history of the Star Wars canon:

 

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon

https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Canon_policy

 

"Under the direction of the Lucasfilm Story Group, all elements of Star Wars canon now operate in a unified and collaborative storytelling setting."

[Chen G. 3,950]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

I am not constructing a PhD dissertation

 
Academic establishments the world over give thanks to you…

[Mattris 416]

I'm not that well known, am I?

 

Thankfully, a PhD isn't required to understand Star Wars, nor does one need to write an essay about it to fathom its greatness.