Popular Post greenturnedblue 372 Posted January 29 Popular Post Share Posted January 29 48 minutes ago, mstrox said: and as long as you never release the expanded soundtracks And definitely do not ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, for any reason, never ever do not ever release the original unaltered versions of the films! A. A. Ron, ThePenitentMan1, JTN and 2 others 1 2 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jurassic Shark 12,227 Posted January 29 Popular Post Share Posted January 29 10 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said: never ever do not ever release the original unaltered versions of the films! They weren't finished. JTN, A. A. Ron, enderdrag64 and 4 others 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,747 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said: And definitely do not ever, under any circumstances whatsoever, for any reason, never ever do not ever release the original unaltered versions of the films! Beat me to it! ThePenitentMan1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bored 319 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 But George's vision was Maclunky! JTN and Trope 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 10 hours ago, bored said: But what role does Greedo have in this master plan? Are the multiple Greedos just multiple versions who have been murdered by Han in various Maclunky shooting orders? Are the special editions really George's eventual plan for Star Wars multiverse? Only Mattris has the answers... I don't perceive Greedo to be important to the story. I do prefer the original film: Han Solo was threatened at gunpoint and shot in self-defense. 8 hours ago, JTW said: If Lucas planned everything all along, why didn’t Disney use his story treatments for the sequel trilogy? Or they did, only Lucas says they didn’t? And he said so because… he wants us to believe that the new story isn’t his, while it in fact is? Why would he want us to believe it isn’t? Distraction and underestimation. 8 hours ago, JTW said: And if it isn’t, how could it be what he planned all along? The possibility that George Lucas was told by the Disney/Lucasfilm executives that they weren't going forward with his sequel treatment - but, in fact, did - is so remote, it treads into the territory of absurdity. They lied to Lucas about breaking a promise? Nonsense. 8 hours ago, Tallguy said: Why is George pretending to be weak when he is actually strong. Who is he trying to defeat? Other than us? And he did that just fine while appearing to be at the height of his powers. Could you rephrase? JTN and Trope 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post JTN 2,207 Posted January 29 Popular Post Share Posted January 29 What does it mean to you? And what doesn’t? And if it doesn’t, why? And why not? So just tell me. Why? And why not? That is the question. Star Wars. The Force. Force Wars. Star Force. The. Why. ? Datameister, Brando, Trope and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabriel Bezerra 308 Posted January 29 Share Posted January 29 On 27/01/2024 at 4:52 AM, Mattris said: So the Lucasfilm Story Group is not doing their job? The Star Wars story is a baton passed from one person to the next, haphazardly? Pablo Hidalgo (the scapegoat for whoever wants to throw names) said time and again that the story group only tells each creative what has been done and if this story will contradict something, but the creative can do with that information as it pleases. It could lead to smart retcons like Maarva's lie about Andor being from Fest, or complete disregard like whatever they did with Kanan in Bad Batch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 Pablo Hidalgo also confirmed in one of his published books (Star Wars: Fascinating Facts) that, for the sequel trilogy, Lucasfilm used important elements of George Lucas' sequel treatment that he left to the company in 2012. Contrary to popular assumption, JJ Abrams was not allowed to do whatever he wanted in TFA and TROS. Same goes for Rian Johnson's installment. The Lucasfilm Story Group is beholden to Kathleen Kennedy and the head(s) of the Lucasfilm creative department. Logically, its members don't simply tell the new story-writing contractors "what has been done and if this story will contradict something" previously told in the story and allow them to make up something off the top of their heads, which is soon entered into the canon and sent to the presses. I'd have to read exactly what Hidalgo said, but think about it: Him knowing what it means for something to 'contradict' something else implies that certain contents previously established in the story mean something. (Rest assured, they do.) The individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes... in addition to 'fitting in' chronologically so the audience can connect the dots volume-to-volume, filling in the narrative timeline. A great deal of effort goes into the multi-hundred-page Star Wars novels. (For example, the film novelizations are not simply the screenplays in novel form. They are a unique telling of each Saga Episode, scattered with elements that couldn't be conveyed in the films alone.) The Star Wars novels are filled with intriguing stuff (context, clues, hints, etc.) that prove to me that the Lucasfilm Story Group is doing its job very well. Noticing and making sense of these particular things takes a keen eye and a certain... well, you all know the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 2 hours ago, Mattris said: for the sequel trilogy, Lucasfilm used important elements of George Lucas' sequel treatment that he left to the company in 2012. That is correct. Those elements were, however, almost entirely in Episode VII. enderdrag64 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 372 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 3 hours ago, Mattris said: The individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes... That's nice. Citation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,486 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 On 29/01/2024 at 1:55 AM, Mattris said: Distraction and underestimation. To what end? Disney makes movies / TV shows that under perform to. what, soften up the audience? So they never knew what hit 'em? You claim that George is playing some kind of rope-a-dope with... The audience? Intentionally making it appear that he is "weak". The appearance that the Star Wars creative universe is in something of a shambles is all a ruse. All part of the plan as they say. Why? From a creative point of view it's not telling a better story. From a financial point of view it's not making more money. JTN and ThePenitentMan1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTN 2,207 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 It's like when you trip in front of everybody and you say "I did it on purpose" to save face. Gimli: That was deliberate, it was deliberate! (Wrong franchise, right analogy.) bored 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hooper 1,921 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 12 minutes ago, Tallguy said: To what end? Disney makes movies / TV shows that under perform to. what, soften up the audience? So they never knew what hit 'em? You claim that George is playing some kind of rope-a-dope with... The audience? Intentionally making it appear that he is "weak". The appearance that the Star Wars creative universe is in something of a shambles is all a ruse. All part of the plan as they say. Why? From a creative point of view it's not telling a better story. From a financial point of view it's not making more money. I hope you're not waiting for reasonable answers to your reasonable questions. JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Tallguy 3,486 Posted January 30 Popular Post Share Posted January 30 Just now, Mr. Hooper said: I hope you're not waiting for reasonable answers to your reasonable questions. I thought that with every damn key I pressed to type that post. I don't know what's happening here, but its insidiousness is remarkable. Gabriel Bezerra, Edmilson, bored and 8 others 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mr. Hooper 1,921 Posted January 30 Popular Post Share Posted January 30 2 minutes ago, Tallguy said: I thought that with every damn key I pressed to type that post. I don't know what's happening here, but its insidiousness is remarkable. ThePenitentMan1, bored and Gabriel Bezerra 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,486 Posted January 30 Share Posted January 30 9 minutes ago, Mr. Hooper said: I'm pretty sure if some fan made some kind of Adventures with Palpatine thing it would not look worse than that did. How did ANYONE think that looked OK? And why did they then stuff it into The Empire Strikes Back? Gabriel Bezerra and bored 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demodex 557 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 8 hours ago, Tallguy said: To what end? Disney makes movies / TV shows that under perform to. what, soften up the audience? So they never knew what hit 'em? You claim that George is playing some kind of rope-a-dope with... The audience? Intentionally making it appear that he is "weak". The appearance that the Star Wars creative universe is in something of a shambles is all a ruse. All part of the plan as they say. Why? From a creative point of view it's not telling a better story. From a financial point of view it's not making more money. Please don't feed the troll Giftheck and JTN 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post A. A. Ron 1,747 Posted January 31 Popular Post Share Posted January 31 Yeah there’s really no point in engaging anymore. Every time someone points out that George Lucas admitted to lying about having a master plan, Mattris just ignores it so he can keep playing pretend. bored, Giftheck and JTN 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTN 2,207 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Exactly. Ignoring him is the only right thing to do. If he can't argue with anyone, he'll buzz off eventually. Giftheck 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post ThePenitentMan1 773 Posted January 31 Popular Post Share Posted January 31 But then what are we going to do for fun? Trope, Erik Woods, Chen G. and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,598 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Yep. This thread provided great entertainment during the past few weeks, especially since it's kind of a dead period for movies, scores, etc. Please, don't stop! Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTN 2,207 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 12 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said: But then what are we going to do for fun? Everything else? A. A. Ron and ThePenitentMan1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tallguy 3,486 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 34 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said: But then what are we going to do for fun? Watch Star Wars? JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 37 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said: But then what are we going to do for fun? Food? A. A. Ron 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Edmilson 7,598 Posted January 31 Popular Post Share Posted January 31 41 minutes ago, JTW said: Everything else? Nah 19 minutes ago, Tallguy said: Watch Star Wars? Already seen it. 17 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Food? Too expensive. Sorry, but this thread has amazing entertaining and comedic values. It's the funniest place on JWFan these days! Keep going Trope, bored, ThePenitentMan1 and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 4,011 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Just now, Edmilson said: It's the funniest place on JWFan these days! Oh, by far! ThePenitentMan1 and Edmilson 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mr. Hooper 1,921 Posted January 31 Popular Post Share Posted January 31 12 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Sorry, but this thread has amazing entertaining and comedic values. It's the funniest place on JWFan these days! Keep going 12 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Oh, by far! Hey, we're trying really hard over on the John Williams Caption Competition thread to be intentionally funny. Give us more love, please. enderdrag64, Giftheck, Chen G. and 2 others 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTN 2,207 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Edmilson said: Nah Try sex. Chen G. and bored 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Brando 1,889 Posted January 31 Popular Post Share Posted January 31 3 minutes ago, ThePenitentMan1 said: But then what are we going to do for fun? Go to the Indiana Jones disenchantment thread! Giftheck, ThePenitentMan1, JTN and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,598 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 3 hours ago, JTW said: Try sex. I appreciate it, but you're not my type 2 hours ago, Brando said: Go to the Indiana Jones disenchantment thread! Only if Mattriss goes there too. But I don't think he cares about Indiana Jones as much as he does about Star Wars, does he? A. A. Ron, JTN and bored 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,889 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 5 minutes ago, Edmilson said: But I don't think he cares about Indiana Jones as much as he do about Star Wars, does he? I don't wanna know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,598 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Btw, out of the 9,581 posts on this thread, 1,073 belong to Matriss. That means about 11.2% of the posts here are from him. I think it's one of the bigger ratios for a long thread in the forum! Mattris and Brando 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Datameister 2,087 Posted January 31 Popular Post Share Posted January 31 And don't forget that his (purported) interpretation of things is shockingly optimistic compared to most conspiracy theories. Lucasfilm has spent the last 50 years methodically deceiving the public in order to … help us eventually derive more enjoyment and meaning from their films! It's actually kind of sweet! enderdrag64, Mr. Hooper, Mattris and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brando 1,889 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 7 minutes ago, Edmilson said: Btw, out of the 9,581 posts on this thread, 1,073 belong to Matriss. That means about 11.2% of the posts here are from him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Mr. Hooper 1,921 Posted January 31 Popular Post Share Posted January 31 1 hour ago, Brando said: Go to the Indiana Jones disenchantment thread! Yes, and as the barkeep over there, I welcome you to come in and have a drink with a steaming bowl of our famous "Disenchantment Chowder"—which is actually just a New England-style clam chowder in a bread bowl. Brando, Manakin Skywalker and Chen G. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,479 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 Make that corn chowder and I'm in Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 On 30/01/2024 at 7:33 AM, Chen G. said: That is correct. Those elements were, however, almost entirely in Episode VII. Almost entirely? You make it sound like George Lucas' plan to have Luke Skywalker die in Episode VIII was an afterthought. Assumption that the few major elements Hildago noted in his book were the only ones carried over is beyond naive. On 30/01/2024 at 8:57 AM, greenturnedblue said: That's nice. Citation? Over the years, I've cited more than enough to indicate I'm on the right track, with an objectively superior interpretation of the story. It's implied in the telling of the story that "the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes." Do you really expect Lucasfilm to outright confirm it in language like that? Why don't you provide evidence that the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon adhere to no trajectory or overall vision... because they either never existed or have changed? Heck, I'll even accept logical reasoning... and then explain why you're likely wrong. (It wouldn't be the first time.) On 30/01/2024 at 9:52 AM, Tallguy said: To what end? Disney makes movies / TV shows that under perform to. what, soften up the audience? So they never knew what hit 'em? You claim that George is playing some kind of rope-a-dope with... The audience? Intentionally making it appear that he is "weak". The appearance that the Star Wars creative universe is in something of a shambles is all a ruse. All part of the plan as they say. Why? From a creative point of view it's not telling a better story. From a financial point of view it's not making more money. The majority of Star Wars projects 'underperform' because the audience doesn't understand what they're watching. I think Lucasfilm have always been telling the story they want, not producing content that will make them the most money... not in the short-term, anyway. The money will come later. But that's not Lucasfilm's primary motivation, nor was it George Lucas'. On 30/01/2024 at 10:04 AM, JTW said: It's like when you trip in front of everybody and you say "I did it on purpose" to save face. Gimli: That was deliberate, it was deliberate! (Wrong franchise, right analogy.) Wrong analogy. (They did not trip.) On 30/01/2024 at 10:06 AM, Mr. Hooper said: I hope you're not waiting for reasonable answers to your reasonable questions. What did I say that was unreasonable? What of the popular explanation of Star Wars is reasonable? That Lucas and/or 'the new Lucasfilm' are utterly incompetent? 20 hours ago, A. A. Ron said: Yeah there’s really no point in engaging anymore. Every time someone points out that George Lucas admitted to lying about having a master plan, Mattris just ignores it so he can keep playing pretend. If you concede that "George Lucas admitted to lying about having a master plan", then why can't you fathom that he lied about being betrayed and his sequel treatments going unused? 14 hours ago, JTW said: Exactly. Ignoring him is the only right thing to do. If he can't argue with anyone, he'll buzz off eventually. People here tend to "buzz off" when they are unable to present legitimate counter-evidence. I don't know why it's thought that surface-level interpretations and assumptions are likely to be 'right' when trying to understand a story like Star Wars. "We cannot afford to take mythology at face value." - Indiana Jones 8 hours ago, Edmilson said: Already seen it. And what did you get out of Star Wars? Why do you still care about it? Why do you think so many people still love it? 5 hours ago, Datameister said: And don't forget that his (purported) interpretation of things is shockingly optimistic compared to most conspiracy theories. Lucasfilm has spent the last 50 years methodically deceiving the public in order to … help us eventually derive more enjoyment and meaning from their films! It's actually kind of sweet! I couldn't have said it better myself! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,907 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 2 hours ago, Mr. Hooper said: Yes, and as the barkeep over there, I welcome you to come in and have a drink with a steaming bowl of our famous "Disenchantment Chowder"—which is actually just a New England-style clam chowder in a bread bowl. Ngl, that's making me hungry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,747 Posted January 31 Share Posted January 31 I don’t know guys, I didn’t find much entertainment in this most recent Mattris post. JTN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greenturnedblue 372 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Mattris said: Over the years, I've cited more than enough to indicate I'm on the right track, with an objectively superior interpretation of the story. It's implied in the telling of the story that "the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes." Do you really expect Lucasfilm to outright confirm it in language like that? I ask for a citation and you just paste in the same exact thing? lol JTN and A. A. Ron 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,087 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said: I don’t know guys, I didn’t find much entertainment in this most recent Mattris post. Well there's no accounting for taste. 😉 After all, even a pile of shit can make for a pretty entertaining scene! Mattris 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, A. A. Ron said: I don’t know guys, I didn’t find much entertainment in this most recent Mattris post. Entertained or not, I asked you a question. 1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said: I ask for a citation and you just paste in the same exact thing? lol You asked for a citation that is implied in long-form storytelling. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,747 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 42 minutes ago, Mattris said: Entertained or not, I asked you a question. Oh please. This is hardly the first time either one of us has ignored the other’s questions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post greenturnedblue 372 Posted February 1 Popular Post Share Posted February 1 1 hour ago, Mattris said: a citation that is implied in long-form storytelling That's not what a citation is.. I can't submit a PhD dissertation without any citations and say there are no references, Dr, because they are implied through storytelling. Giftheck, Demodex, JTN and 3 others 1 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 3 hours ago, A. A. Ron said: Oh please. This is hardly the first time either one of us has ignored the other’s questions. What question of yours did I ignore? If you can't find one, it's only fair that you answer my latest: If you concede that "George Lucas admitted to lying about having a master plan", why can't you fathom that he lied about being betrayed and his sequel treatments going unused? 2 hours ago, greenturnedblue said: That's not what a citation is.. I can't submit a PhD dissertation without any citations and say there are no references, Dr, because they are implied through storytelling. That's just it. I am not constructing a PhD dissertation. I'm presenting evidence and logical reasoning to support theories concerning the interpretation of a story, as well as its presentation. Whether or not it was noted by Lucasfilm that "the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon must adhere to the trajectory and overall vision of the story, as well as the intent of its grander themes" is irrelevant. My point is that many if not, most - of the Star Wars audience would doubt any claim of this sort, regardless of who said it. The masses simply can't fathom that they don't understand Star Wars. So they feel justified to be disenchanted and complain. ('My displeasure is someone else's fault!') My claim is 'implied through the story'. The inverse is not: that the individual stories continually added to the Star Wars canon do not adhere to a trajectory, vision, or grander themes of a story being told. My logic is sound, and I have provided canon evidence to back up my assessments and theories. To conclude otherwise without factual evidence - or at the very least, by way of literal canon excerpts - would be entirely assumptive, therefore, illogical. But you can show me the (possible) error of my ways: Simply provide evidence that supports your position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post greenturnedblue 372 Posted February 1 Popular Post Share Posted February 1 6 minutes ago, Mattris said: I'm presenting evidence OK... what evidence? Holko, ThePenitentMan1 and JTN 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTN 2,207 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 13 hours ago, Edmilson said: I appreciate it, but you're not my type With your current profile pic, you’re not mine, either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 3 hours ago, greenturnedblue said: OK... what evidence? I posted a great deal of evidence in this very topic, starting years ago. What about you? As for your requested citations, these pages contain pertinent quotes from authoritative individuals, as well as a comprehensive rundown of the history of the Star Wars canon: https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Canon https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Wookieepedia:Canon_policy "Under the direction of the Lucasfilm Story Group, all elements of Star Wars canon now operate in a unified and collaborative storytelling setting." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 4,011 Posted February 1 Popular Post Share Posted February 1 3 hours ago, Mattris said: I am not constructing a PhD dissertation Academic establishments the world over give thanks to you… A. A. Ron, GerateWohl, JTN and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mattris 416 Posted February 1 Share Posted February 1 I'm not that well known, am I? Thankfully, a PhD isn't required to understand Star Wars, nor does one need to write an essay about it to fathom its greatness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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