Star Wars Disenchantment

[Holko 9,531]

47 minutes ago, Indianagirl said:

 

 

Interesting. 

 

Is there a single post where you lay out your entire theory? Just curious. I'm pretty certain you were implying that it's not finished and will require a new trilogy to follow the sequel trilogy? I'll bite but I don't want to have to read 17,000 posts to see exactly what it is you're getting at. 

Careful, continuously positively feeding the Mattriss is a temporary bannable offense here.

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

Yeah, no. Abrams and Daisy Ridley have said Palpatine coming back wasn't planned from the beginning.

 

They absolutely did not say that. You heard only what you wanted to hear. If you're referring to the interviews I think you are...

 

... Abrams spoke broadly on the topic of planning projects throughout his career, and ended by saying, "The most important thing, I've learned, is to have a plan."

 

... Daisy Ridley merely recounted her experience making the trilogy. Like the Mark Hamill during the OT, Ridley knew only what she was told. She was not one of the trilogy's writers or producers.

 

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

I bet if Snoke didn't die in TLJ, Palps would never have been in Episode 9. 

 

Along with Kylo Ren, Snoke was never the villain of the sequel trilogy. He was merely a programmed pawn of Palpatine. (This was another one of my posted theories before IX's first trailer.) Snoke had to be killed to make room on the board for the real villain.

 

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

No, based on the plot was infantile and nothing made sense. 

 

... to you.  What do you think was the plot of TROS?  Specifically, what didn't make sense?

 

Emperor Palpatine's inclusions throughout 'the Disney canon' went unnoticed because people (the 'fans'), in general, are lazy. Some disregarded these inclusions because they assumed... wrongly.  As Yoda said, "How embarrassing."

 

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

What kind of compensation are you looking for? 😄

 

I'm open to offers. Want to make one?

[Indianagirl 298]

2 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Snoke was never the villain of the sequel trilogy. 

 Which was the missed opportunity of the century.

[Demodex 557]

6 minutes ago, Mattris said:

They absolutely did not say that.

 

Are you positive?  You've seen every interview they've done?

 

 

6 minutes ago, Mattris said:

What do you think was the plot of TROS?  Specifically, what didn't make sense?

 

The plot was the same to me as to you and everyone else who watched it. 

What a dumb question. 

 

There were too many plot holes to type out now. 

[Mattris 416]

5 hours ago, Indianagirl said:

Interesting. 

 

Is there a single post where you lay out your entire theory? Just curious. I'm pretty certain you were implying that it's not finished and will require a new trilogy to follow the sequel trilogy? I'll bite but I don't want to have to read 17,000 posts to see exactly what it is you're getting at. 

 

Not my updated theory, no. This is what I posted on page 161:

 

The stakes will be raised as the Saga continues.  By completing the revenge of the Sith and other insidious schemes of selfishness, Emperor Palpatine will prove he is the master of evil.

 

This Final Trilogy will tie the story together in a most impressive, definitive conclusion.  By the end, it will be clear that narrative of the Star Wars Saga was planned from its inception.

 

4 hours ago, Indianagirl said:

 Which was the missed opportunity of the century.

 

I say the missed opportunity of the century would have been not having Emperor Palpatine be the single, true villain of the Saga.

 

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

Are you positive?  You've seen every interview they've done?

 

I can't say I have, no. But I'm positive that, in the interviews I have seen, Abrams and Ridley did not admit to there being 'no plan for the trilogy'.

 

But you are saying they did. You need to quote their admissions.

 

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

The plot was the same to me as to you and everyone else who watched it. 

What a dumb question. 

 

There were too many plot holes to type out now. 

 

Why in the world would you assume that my interpretation is "the same" as yours?

 

Once you tell me your plot assessment of TROS and your list of perceived plot holes, our discussion/debate can continue. (FYI, saying something 'was stupid' is not an assessment; it's your opinion.)

[greenturnedblue 372]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Abrams spoke broadly on the topic of planning projects throughout his career, and ended by saying, "The most important thing, I've learned, is to have a plan."

He said this in reference to learning the hard way how a film turns out when you don't have a plan in place

 

52 minutes ago, Mattris said:

This Final Trilogy will tie the story together in a most impressive, definitive conclusion.  By the end, it will be clear that narrative of the Star Wars Saga was planned from its inception.

If only 

 

IMO The reason Palpatine "somehow returned" was because RJ killed Snoke (which I dont mind) but then JJ was left in a pickle, because he couldn't/didn't want to make Kylo Ren the big villain, and couldn't/didn't want to create out of thin air a big evil villain that would tie the whole saga together "in a way that is emotional and meaningful and also satisfying in terms of actually answering [as many] questions as possible". It was either bring Sheev back, or come up with something new, and hat was the lesser of two evils

 

Not sure why anyone would think it was George Lucas' original idea all along to have Palpy come back in IX. Ian McDiarmid said to GL during RotJ "and I was thrown down that chute to Galactic Hell", "I thought he was dead. Oh, does he come back?" And GL replied "No, he’s dead". Seems GL always intended for Palpatine to die here, for good

 

Trevorrow said in his Empire interview that it was JJ's idea to bring Palpatine back. But According to KK, Palpatine's return was in the blueprint for a long time. "We had not landed on exactly how we might do that, but it was always [to be in Episode IX]". Yeah, OK. Is that why Trevorrow made his entire script without Palpatine in it? If this is the case you'd think KK would, you know, have him include Palpatine. Some serious cognitive dissonance going on here

[Mattris 416]

3 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

He said this in reference to learning the hard way how a film turns out when you don't have a plan in place

 

Again, Abrams was speaking broadly about his career and didn't name any specific projects. Regardless, you don't know how his Star Wars trilogy 'turned out'. Audience interpretation/opinion is not the end-all.

 

3 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

IMO The reason Palpatine "somehow returned" was because RJ killed Snoke (which I dont mind) but then JJ was left in a pickle, because he couldn't/didn't want to make Kylo Ren the big villain, and couldn't/didn't want to create out of thin air a big evil villain that would tie the whole saga together "in a way that is emotional and meaningful and also satisfying in terms of actually answering [as many] questions as possible". It was either bring Sheev back, or come up with something new, and hat was the lesser of two evils

 

IMO, you are guessing based on no facts and an incorrect (not writer intended) interpretation. Do you think there were any questions that were not answered by the end of IX?

 

3 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

Not sure why anyone would think it was George Lucas' original idea all along to have Palpy come back in IX. Iam McDiarmid said to GL during RotJ "and I was thrown down that chute to Galactic Hell", "I thought he was dead. Oh, does he come back?" And GL replied "No, he’s dead". Seems GL always intended for Palpatine to die here, for good

 

Because there's substantive evidence to the contrary. I'm saying that George Lucas and others working at Lucasfilm chose to publicly downplay certain (planned) elements of the story and lore because they didn't want the audience to easily predict the narrative/character progression, big reveals, and pay-offs that were always coming.

 

I can confirm that doing so wasn't easy.

 

3 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

Trevorrow said in his Empire interview that it was JJ's idea to bring Palpatine back. But According to KK, Palpatine's return was in the blueprint for a long time. "We had not landed on exactly how we might do that, but it was always [to be in Episode IX]". Yeah, OK. Is that why Trevorrow made his entire script without Palpatine in it? Some serious cognitive dissonance going on here

 

Perhaps it was KK and JJ's idea to bring Palpatine back from the beginning, but Trevorrow didn't do as he was told and was eventually fired.

 

Or, as I think, Trevorrow's involvement was a distraction from their real  plans.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

9 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Or, as I think, Trevorrow's involvement was a distraction from their real  plans.

 

You think a working director would willingly waste his time to create a fake script, and then take a hit to his own reputation after the split, just to distract from... something (that he won't even be involved with)? And what that something is, nobody even knows...

 

[greenturnedblue 372]

27 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Abrams was speaking broadly about his career and didn't name any specific projects

I suppose it is a coincidence then that JJ said this right after the release of IX, his latest film, where he was ridiculed for not having a plan

 

27 minutes ago, Mattris said:

you are guessing

Yes, I am guessing. I said it was my opinion. You are free to disagree but please do not say my opinion is wrong

 

27 minutes ago, Mattris said:

George and others have to downplay certain (planned) things

So when there is evidence contrary to your position comes to light you counter with "they are lying", yet do not present evidence yourself other then "watch the films", "read the books", "it says "his body" in the script"?

 

27 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Trevorrow didn't do as he was told and was fired

OK, even though they only rang McDiarmid to see if he was interested in returning after Trevorrow had already left over "creative differences"? And he says JJ had the idea for Palpatine's return after he had been brought on to IX?

 

Also: your opinion on reports of Matt Smith originally being the main villain, before being scrubbed?

[Schilkeman 964]

You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting.

[greenturnedblue 372]

Maybe Trevorrow actually got fired because he wanted to film IX in space

[Mattris 416]

46 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting.

 

Yes, learning.

  

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

You think a working director would willingly waste his time to create a fake script, and then take a hit to his own reputation after the split, just to distract from... something (that he won't even be involved with)? And what that something is, nobody even knows...

 

Should that 'something' exist, I'm sure Trevorrow knows what it is. Perhaps he will receive an official "Story by" credit, just like he did for Episode IX since, apparently, some of his ideas were used in TROS.

 

Trevorrow didn't "waste his time". His involvement and work did its job: distraction. We now know what his script contained since it was leaked  publicly released, along with its pre-production art, and score cues... all on the same day.

 

Re: Trevorrow's "reputation", Trevorrow already had his massive Jurassic World series to keep him busy... which makes his Star Wars project seem like it was granted to him out of left field. It makes sense now that Trevorrow was never  the creative lead for Episode IX.

 

52 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

I suppose it is a coincidence then that JJ said this right after the release of IX, his latest film, where he was ridiculed for not having a plan

 

JJ accepted that interview to indulge the interviewer's assumptions regarding the trilogy not having a plan. He knew the questions that he'd be asked and knew how to answer them. Without naming any projects and making it clear that having a plan is crucial, I say he did a pretty good job.

 

52 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

Yes, I am guessing. I said it was my opinion. You are free to disagree but please do not say my opinion is wrong

 

I didn't. I said, IMO, your interpretation  is wrong.  I also asked if you think there were any questions that were not answered by the end of IX?

 

52 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

So when there is evidence contrary to your position comes to light you counter with "they are lying", yet do not present evidence yourself other then "watch the films", "read the books", "it says "his body" in the script"?

 

What evidence? The makers of Star Wars saying things publicly? Sometimes, they lie.  For instance, Ewan McGregor admitted on numerous talk shows to having 'felt bad about lying all that time', having known for years that he would return to play Obi-Wan Kenobi.

 

52 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

OK, even though they only rang McDiarmid to see if he was interested in returning after Trevorrow had already left over "creative differences"? And he says JJ had the idea for Palpatine's return after he had been brought on to IX?

 

We don't know when Lucasfilm first contacted Ian McDiarmid about returning to play Palpatine in some manner in the new trilogy. It was likely in 2012 when Kathleen Kennedy took charge of Lucasfilm... or early 2013 when JJ was hired to be Executive Producer of the trilogy and the writer/director of Episode VII. At that time, McDiarmid was likely told to be ready for the unspecified role but that he would not be included in Episodes VII or VIII.

 

Watch that clip again. JJ's call to McDiarmid "about a year" before "the middle of filming" Episode IX was likely when JJ had Episode IX mapped out, including the return of Emperor Palpatine. It was during this call that JJ could finally offer McDiarmid a specific role.

[greenturnedblue 372]

Now I am just curious. Do you think Trevorrow leaked his own material? Or was it Disney? And as a distraction for what?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

Same question, a distraction for what? Why would a distraction even matter? Also, directors and writers don't get into the film industry to "distract". They get into the industry to write and direct. Mattris, your theory does not add up at all.

[Chen G. 3,950]

21 minutes ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Mattris, your theory does not add up at all.

 

Mattris' theories not holding up, hmmm... In related news, I just read on Wiley that scientists have made a radical new discovery: there's now substantial empirial evidence to suggest water is wet! :gasp:

[Mattris 416]

After Trevorrow's work* was finished, the matter was out of his hands. Under advisement from Lucasfilm, Disney likely hired a third party to handle the 'leak' by publishing the DOTF script/art/music cues in a public forum. Trevorrow confirmed it was, in fact, his work. Oopsy!!!

 

Distraction complete.

 

* to create a screenplay that followed TLJ (incl. an angsty Kylo Ren, Rey as the eventual victor, but without Palpatine being involved), designs for new environments/characters/costumes/planets/ships complete w/ concept art

 

 

A distraction for the audience carefully-crafted to make Disney/Lucasfilm appear (even more) incompetent. This certainly wasn't the first or only time they've appeared incompetent to many/most Star Wars fans.

 

The purpose of distractions is to keep one's opponent unsuspecting, looking in all the wrong places... so that a strike can be mounted unsuspectingly.  I now see past the many distractions within Star Wars, allowing me to focus instead on matters of substance.

 

Perhaps Star Wars is special, with its writers and directors accepting special roles to play their part in something truly special.

 

My theories do add up. You all just can't fathom the implications... or don't want to.

[Holko 9,531]

4 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

 

Mattris' theories not holding up, hmmm... In related news, I just read on Wiley that scientists have made a radical new discovery: there's now substantial empirial evidence to suggest water is wet! :gasp:

Water has been deliberately hired to make you think it's wet, but if you just feel everything out, it's secretly dry. Because it is. I know it.

[Schilkeman 964]

53 minutes ago, Mattris said:

This certainly wasn't the first or only time they've appeared incompetent to many/most Star Wars fans.

Careful, you're almost giving yourself away here

[DarthDementous 1,059]

@Mattris

 

Quote

I thought you were attempting to change my mind. If so, you have to give me a reason to even consider doing so.

 

I can't accept those things because I have not seen any real evidence to support them.

 

At this point in the Saga, my theory is that Lucasfilm wants to maintain secrecy. 'Seeing set photos and hearing about rumors from reliable sources' should not be expected.

I am as of now not attempting to change your mind because your belief foundations are incompatible to mine. I know your belief isn’t evidence based because you can’t come up with any hypothetical evidence to disconfirm what you believe. I know mine is, because I can come up with hypothetical evidence that would disconfirm my belief.

 

I simply wish to make you and the others trying to argue with you, aware of that, because no amount of evidence they present will make a difference. To anyone out there trying to change his mind, you need to figure out what the foundation of this belief actually is, because it’s not evidence. Perhaps it’s irrational shock at the state of Star Wars that has created the strong desire to believe there was actually a plan no matter what, maybe there’s some particular stake Mattris has in holding the belief - who knows

 

At the end of the day though, even if Mattris is correct, what Lucasfilm has planned doesn’t even sound good. Who on earth wants to see Palpatine come back for a second time and continue following the characters of the Sequel trilogy? All those resources just to add more fuel to the dumpster fire, no thanks. It’s ironic that this is meant to be proof that Lucasfilm had been competent the whole time, but the result of the grand plan demonstrates a level of incompetence far greater than having no plan at all - doubling down on a bad hand.

[Holko 9,531]

12 minutes ago, DarthDementous said:

I know your belief isn’t evidence based because you can’t come up with any hypothetical evidence to disconfirm what you believe.

He can't even show nonhypothetical evidence that would confirm what he believes.

[Giftheck 917]

[Mattris 416]

All that, @DarthDementous, and you end your post by using the lamest opinion word of them all:  bad

 

What evidence are you taking into consideration when concluding what Star Wars "hand" Disney/Lucasfilm have?

 

Your belief foundations are incompatible to mine because the evidence you possess is grossly incomplete and insufficient. Simply put, you are incapable of making informed theories and conclusions because, not only are you unaware of the many specifics and intricacies of the literal Star Wars canon, you don't know what you don't know.

 

The foundation of my belief is the evidence-based, with my focus being the official Star Wars canon: in context with itself (across many volumes spanning decades) and the various aspects of human thought and study of which George Lucas has gone on record as saying were his inspiration for Star Wars. I demonstrated this was the case years ago when I was proven right about major elements of IX by quoting and rationalizing a swath of literal canon excerpts... and in doing so, deducing a truly meaningful interpretation of the narrative and themes of Star Wars.

 

Perhaps I - or anyone else - can’t come up with any hypothetical evidence to disconfirm what I believe because I'm right.

 

Perhaps the "irrational shock at the state of Star Wars" is yours: that your short-sighted perception has caused you - and so many others - to have "created the strong desire to believe there was" no plan for a Star Wars Saga trilogy, with George Lucas having been immediately betrayed  by Kathleen Kennedy, JJ Abrams, and many of his former employees: writers, creatives, and executives at Lucasfilm who stayed on, only to demonstrate incompetence time and again in their handling of Star Wars, and in doing so, tarnishing their former boss' legacy and IP with a "bad" and needless trilogy in which a Mary Sue and friends defeated an out-of-nowhere villain who had already been conclusively beaten decades prior.

 

Mark my words: The masses are wrong about Star Wars and will be corrected in the most shocking circumstances. What was always coming is clearly going to have to be spoon-fed to them.

[Demodex 557]

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

A distraction for the audience carefully-crafted to make Disney/Lucasfilm appear (even more) incompetent

 

This is in the top 2 of your dumbest ideas.  Why would you pay someone to make you look incompetent?  It makes no sense!!

[Mattris 416]

Oh, it makes perfect sense. They actively want the audience to underestimate them.

 

This reminds me of statement Qui-Gon Jinn made in the Star Wars novel, Master and Apprentice  (from memory): You can't understand one's action's until you are aware of their true intentions.

 

I'm saying Lucasfilm's true intentions are to distract from their real plans.

 

I'm curious, @Demodex, what do you consider my two other dumbest ideas?

 

While you're at it, you can tell me your basic plot assessment of TROS. A few sentences will do.

[Demodex 557]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

Yes, learning

 

So teach us the big picture we're too dumb to understand. 

[Mattris 416]

What's in it for me?

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

While you're at it, you can tell me your basic plot assessment of TROS. A few sentences will do

 

Somehow Palpatine returned, with no explanation.  One plot is to get to Exegol to stop the Death Star/ Star Destroyer hybrids to keep them from leaving there, although one already did to destroy Babu Frik's planet. 

 

Two, Kylo wants to kill Rey, until he decides he doesn't. 

 

The two then go to kill Palpy. 

 

It is a hell of a coincidence that in that big fireball explosion of DS2, the Emperor's throne room survived, the one place in which there was a wayfinder. 

What. Bullshit. 

 

 

26 minutes ago, Mattris said:

What's in it for me?

 

An ego boost, and us peons no longer wasting your time. 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

I'm curious, @Demodex, what do you consider my two other dumbest ideas?

 

That they already filmed Episodes 10-12.  And something else. I forget. 

 

They had no need of Colin Trevorrow. If he never produced a fake script, what would have happened?  NOTHING DIFFERENT. 

[Mattris 416]

I'm willing to teach you, @Demodex.  But before we go through this again, could you please answer these additional questions... from your point of view, of course. Written here from the top of my head, I consider them the most significant, basic Star Wars questions to pose to someone who could benefit from looking at Star Wars from another point of view:

- On its own, what was the story of the Original Trilogy?

- What was the point of adding the Prequel Trilogy?

- Did the OT benefit from the PT?

- Did the PT make a better or more-complete overall story?

- Did the overall story of the Saga change once the PT was added?

- What was the story of the Saga, I through VI?

- Did the first two trilogies benefit - or could they have benefitted - from additional episodes continuing past Episode VI?

- Do you have any significant issues with Episodes VII or VIII? Or did the Saga only take a wrong turn with TROS?

- After Episode VIII, what did you want or expect from the story of Episode IX?  (I understand that what you wanted and expected may not have been the same thing.)

 

Please answer all in a single post. Relatively short answers will be fine. Take time, if you need it. I'm genuinely interested in what you have to say.

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

Is it just me, or do Mattris' posts now come across in a tone akin to that of someone who's (supposedly) discovered something on a par with irrefutable evidence of God's existence? 

[Schilkeman 964]

The Ken Ham of Star Wars discourse 

[greenturnedblue 372]

The biggest question I have regarding the sequels is what exactly JJ and Terrio were smoking 

[Giftheck 917]

26 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

The biggest question I have regarding the sequels is what exactly JJ and Terrio were smoking 

 

Copies of Dark Empire

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

12 hours ago, Mattris said:

After Trevorrow's work* was finished, the matter was out of his hands. Under advisement from Lucasfilm, Disney likely hired a third party to handle the 'leak' by publishing the DOTF script/art/music cues in a public forum. Trevorrow confirmed it was, in fact, his work. Oopsy!!!

 

Distraction complete.

 

* to create a screenplay that followed TLJ (incl. an angsty Kylo Ren, Rey as the eventual victor, but without Palpatine being involved), designs for new environments/characters/costumes/planets/ships complete w/ concept art

 

 

A distraction for the audience carefully-crafted to make Disney/Lucasfilm appear (even more) incompetent. This certainly wasn't the first or only time they've appeared incompetent to many/most Star Wars fans.

 

The purpose of distractions is to keep one's opponent unsuspecting, looking in all the wrong places... so that a strike can be mounted unsuspectingly.  I now see past the many distractions within Star Wars, allowing me to focus instead on matters of substance.

 

Perhaps Star Wars is special, with its writers and directors accepting special roles to play their part in something truly special.

 

My theories do add up. You all just can't fathom the implications... or don't want to.

 

What would even be the endgame here? Lucasfilm hypothetically making a newer trilogy that more people like, that makes a bit more money, possibly? That's it? What could possibly be the point of wanting to be seen as incompetent, aside from people deciding not to see these hypothetical new films because they've lost interest?

[greenturnedblue 372]

So Disney hired Trevorrow, strung him along for two years, waited until he finished his screenplay and concept artists had drawn up a bunch of artwork. Then they fired him. And leaked everything purposefully to make people think "wow, IX really sucks" ?

[Tallguy 3,401]

18 hours ago, Mattris said:

Don't be so certain. In that climactic scene, the ROTJ screenplay goes from calling him "Palpatine" to "Palpatine's body" and "the body", with the 1983 novelization going so far as to call "Palpatine's body"  "it"  twice.

 

So Owen IS Ben's brother! Canon!

 

17 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Please Daniel, we can't keep doing this

 

I'm not seeing any evidence that this is true.

 

Believe me, this thread is making me feel much batter about my long posts about Doctor Who, Star Trek, and Pirates of the Caribbean. I may go back and post my unedited critique of At World's End. But no. What did anyone do to deserve that?

[Mattris 416]

11 hours ago, Demodex said:

Somehow Palpatine returned, with no explanation.

 

"It's ironic. He could save others from death - but not himself."

"The dark side is a pathway to many abilities some consider to be unnatural."

"Cloning. Dark science. Secrets only the Sith knew."

 

Even without the TROS novelization - or awareness of Dark Empire - a plausible explanation for how Emperor Palpatine returned can be deduced from context clues:

 

Using his immense strength in the dark side of the Force, Sith Master Darth Sidious, the villain for the other two trilogies, was able to unnaturally move his spirit into a prepared cloned body of himself. But his methods of dark science were primitive and limited... which explain the withering state of his 'new' physical self... and why he wanted another vessel.

 

11 hours ago, Demodex said:

The two then go to kill Palpy.

 

And then what happened?

 

11 hours ago, Demodex said:

It is a hell of a coincidence that in that big fireball explosion of DS2, the Emperor's throne room survived, the one place in which there was a wayfinder. 

What. Bullshit. 

 

ROTJ shows that a big piece of the DS2 was not destroyed in the initial explosion. The Wayfinder could have remained intact... or have been placed after the wreckage settled.

 

11 hours ago, Demodex said:

An ego boost, and us peons no longer wasting your time.

 

Not good enough.

I don't consider typing here a waste of my time.

 

11 hours ago, Demodex said:

That they already filmed Episodes 10-12.  And something else. I forget.

 

I said nothing about XI or XII having been filmed. But if they're moving forward with another trilogy, it wouldn't be a bad idea for Disney/Lucasfilm to get ahead in the game, would it?

 

Maybe the 'something else' was that there was a plan for the sequels of which John Williams was told to compose for accordingly.

 

2 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

So Disney hired Trevorrow, strung him along for two years, waited until he finished his screenplay and concept artists had drawn up a bunch of artwork. Then they fired him. And leaked everything purposefully to make people think "wow, IX really sucks" ?

 

Trevorrow wasn't fired. He had a job to do and played his part. They leaked everything purposefully to make people think "Wow, Disney/Lucasfilm are dreadfully incompetent... because they didn't have a plan for the new trilogy... and overall, it really sucked!"

 

"Tell us you have a plan!"  - Poe Dameron

 

3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

What would even be the endgame here? Lucasfilm hypothetically making a newer trilogy that more people like, that makes a bit more money, possibly? That's it? What could possibly be the point of wanting to be seen as incompetent, aside from people deciding not to see these hypothetical new films because they've lost interest?

 

To keep the audience unsuspecting for what's around the corner.

Lost interest can be regained. (I suspect they have a plan for that, too.)

[greenturnedblue 372]

51 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Trevorrow wasn't fired. He had a job to do and played his part. They leaked everything purposefully to make people think "Wow, Disney/Lucasfilm are dreadfully incompetent... because they didn't have a plan for the new trilogy... and overall, it really sucked!"

 

Where your theory falls apart, is they didn't need to jump through all those hoops to get the public to think of them as incompetent. They could have released IX as-is without any of the Trevorrow nonsense and people would be thinking the same thing. For that matter, how much of the general public that thinks Disney is incompetent know about the whole Trevorrow situation? 5%? 10%?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

To keep the audience unsuspecting for what's around the corner.

Lost interest can be regained. (I suspect they have a plan for that, too.)

 

That seems like an awful lot of wasted time and money just to keep the audience unsuspecting. Ironic that they'd be burning all that money, considering their goal is literally to make money.

[Schilkeman 964]

3 hours ago, Tallguy said:

I'm not seeing any evidence that this is true.

Evidence for what? I’m not sure what you’re replying to.

[Mattris 416]

1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said:

Where your theory falls apart, is they didn't need to jump through all those hoops to get the public to think of them as incompetent. They could have released IX as-is without any of the Trevorrow nonsense and people would be thinking the same thing. For that matter, how much of the general public that thinks Disney is incompetent know about the whole Trevorrow situation? 5%? 10%?

 

Perhaps, but they wanted to be extra sure that their audience thinks they're are extra incompetent.

 

The general public?  Probably 1%.   The Star Wars fandom?  Over 95%

 

1 hour ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

That seems like an awful lot of wasted time and money just to keep the audience unsuspecting. Ironic that they'd be burning all that money, considering their goal is literally to make money.

 

If the overall outcome is what they desired, everything they did will be considered worth the investment.

 

What makes you certain that 'making money' is Disney's primary - or only - goal with Star Wars?

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

8 minutes ago, Mattris said:

If the overall outcome is what they desired, everything they did will be considered worth the investment.

 

What makes you certain that 'making money' is Disney's primary - or only - goal with Star Wars?

 

Because it's one of the largest corporations in a capitalist country. It's been their #1 goal for as long as the company has existed. It's called the film industry. Why else would they be investing so much money into their projects if not for the sole purpose of generating a profit?

[Mattris 416]

No, I would say that creating memorable - and great looking - stories has been Disney's #1 goal for as long as the company has existed. It's called the film industry. They invest so much money into their projects because they want to tell stories, which in turn create memorable experiences for their audience, resulting in making connections to the brand... which only then, usually results in making money if what their offering (selling) is purchased by a significant percentage of their potential audience.

 

But the large corporation of Disney is not short on money. So it's not a stretch to conclude that the various agendas of their executives, writers, producers, and directors - like changing their audience's hearts and minds through their work - would be as important - if not, more important - than simply 'making money'... as evidenced with so many of Disney's recent film/TV projects, which have featured... less-popular characters and sentiments.

 

People no longer just show up excited (and pay) because 'Disney just made a new movie/show!'  That very much used to be the case. Concluding that 'making the most money possible' is Disney's #1 priority is selling them short. They have ulterior motives.

 

This very much applies to Star Wars.

 

 

"If money is all that you want, that's what you'll receive."

[DarthDementous 1,059]

Ignoring the parts that are just a lengthy ‘no u’…

 

16 hours ago, Mattris said:

16 hours ago, Mattris said:

The foundation of my belief is the evidence-based

 

Perhaps I - or anyone else - can’t come up with any hypothetical evidence to disconfirm what I believe because I'm right.

You can keep asserting that your belief foundation is evidence-based all you like, until you can actually present hypothetical evidence that would change your mind then it’s just not true.

 

You can be correct based on the available evidence yet still have to change your belief if new contradictory evidence presented itself. That’s one of the fundamentals of the scientific method. You being unable to put yourself in the shoes of someone who has a contrary belief is indicative of a lack of understanding on the topic, be it unintentional or intentional. You can’t accuse me of doing this either because I’ve given you the exact evidence you would need to convince me.

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

@Mattris assuming you have the same thoughts about other studios, I'd be interested in what you might have to say about WB cancelling several films mid-production (personally I have no interest in these films and I'm not sure if you do). Was there a hypothetical "benefit" to the straight-up cancellation of films like Batgirl?

[SilverTrumpet 638]

Oh I love this thread, I'm so glad it's back. 

 

On 29/12/2022 at 3:33 PM, greenturnedblue said:

My personal theory is that JJ always intended Rey to be Luke's daughter, but it was scrubbed last minute because she and Kylo Ren kissed in IX (not that an incestuous kiss has not already been in a star wars film). Then they made her Sheev's daughter, because they were bringing back Palpy anyways. Then, she becomes a Skywalker in name only as a compromise 

 

Definitely almost Han's daughter. 

 

https://makingstarwars.net/2015/05/a-compiled-synopsis-of-star-wars-the-force-awakens/

 

This is from the May before the movie came out and got almost everything right, except things that we know was cut (the lightsaber, the early movie Leia plot, etc.)

 

 

Also, they had no idea that kiss was happening before 2019. Guaranteed they threw that in because Tumblr people were starting all that Reylo shit.

[greenturnedblue 372]

Not sure what is a worse explanation: Luke's hand tumbled through space still holding the lightsaber, or "a good story for another time"

[Demodex 557]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

Trevorrow wasn't fired. He had a job to do and played his part. They leaked everything purposefully to make people think "Wow, Disney/Lucasfilm are dreadfully incompetent... because they didn't have a plan for the new trilogy... and overall, it really sucked!"

 

Is this sarcasm?  Because I can't imagine anyone really believing that this really happened.  It is laughable. 😄😄😄

 

 

Of course Disney's sole existence is based on making money. That is their only goal other than keeping shareholders happy. 

Otherwise maybe we'd see another Solo movie. 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

On 02/01/2023 at 1:29 PM, Naïve Old Fart said:

I've always wondered: is there any significance in "66", or is it just a random number?

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

Trevorrow wasn't fired. He had a job to do and played his part. They leaked everything purposefully to make people think "Wow, Disney/Lucasfilm are dreadfully incompetent... because they didn't have a plan for the new trilogy... and overall, it really sucked!"

 
Dear God.

[Schilkeman 964]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

Perhaps, but they wanted to be extra sure that their audience thinks they're are extra incompetent.

I think Occam's razor was used to perform surgery on your brain.