Star Wars Disenchantment

[greenturnedblue 372]

If we are talking specifically about Lost, those two quotes do not contradict themselves. When he says "it's impressive to see how much was planned out", he is not saying literally everything was planned out. I'm sure they did not expect time travel to be brought into the fold when they were working on Season 1. That is what Lucas means by "I didn't know where it was going either", because time travel was very much something they came up with much later down the road. But other details absolutely were planned out (see article)

 

Even the prologue in Breaking Bad S05E01 with old bearded Walt returning to Albuquerque with the machine gun did not have a explanation at the time, Gilligan and co. figured it out later. Most if not all of TV does this, I dont know of any long running show that is literally 100% mapped out from the start.

 

According to a reddit post on r/Lost:

"During the middle of season 1. The majority of the plot of season 1 and 2 was thought of.

The plot of season 3, 4 and (on very vague terms, 5) was thought up between season 2 and 3.

Season 4,5 was thought up in extreme detail between season 3-4.

The plot of season 5 and 6 was put together between season 4-5".

 

The Reylo kiss was allegedly something Disney forced on JJ, but I wont go into that. You can look it up yourself if you'd like. If true, it makes JJ's original plan of Rey being Luke's daughter impossible, because then Rey would kiss her cousin. 

 

Where is the evidence Sheev was always meant to come back in IX? Did Lucas know about this when he was thrown down the Death Star 2 shaft, exploded, and then the entire Death Star blew up? 

 

 

Happy new year everybody

[Mattris 416]

37 minutes ago, Demodex said:

No, it doesn't. Because it wasn't. We all know it wasn't.

 

 

37 minutes ago, Demodex said:

If you have proof we are all wrong and you're right please provide it. 

Otherwise you have no credibility. 

 

In this thread, I provided more than enough evidence. Across hundreds of posts, I quoted corroborating canon excerpts that indicate how I came up with my "f---ing stupid" theories that were proven correct.  (You even congratulated me.)  I told everyone where to locate additional evidence and from what point of view to look for it. These official Star Wars volumes are publicly available; most can be found at local libraries.

 

Literally spelling out how you're all wrong - specifically, that the Saga will continue, shockingly - does not serve my intentions... not yet, anyway.

 

Along with others here, you should be more concerned with your own credibility, @Demodex. At this juncture, you have none.

 

26 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

Where is the evidence Sheev was always meant to come back in IX? Did Lucas know about this when he was thrown down the Death Star 2 shaft, exploded, and then the entire Death Star blew up? 

 

The evidence is spread across the screenplays and novelizations.

Yes.

[Demodex 557]

You haven't proven anything. The actors and directors have said there wasn't a plan, and that Palpatine returning was a last minute decision. 

 

The Aftermath novels aren't proof enough to me that Palps was coming back. I read them and was still shocked at the asinine decision to bring him back. 

 

Rey being a Palpatine wasn't planned either.  

 

If you can prove you're right I'll be a good sport and admit I'm wrong. 

[greenturnedblue 372]

6 minutes ago, Mattris said:

The evidence is spread across the screenplays and novelizations.

Yes.

What about the screenplays constitutes evidence?

 

The novelizations are only canon "where they align with that is seen on screen". Anything in the novelizations but not on screen are not canon

[Demodex 557]

19 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Along with others here, you should be more concerned with your own credibility, @Demodex. At this juncture, you have none.

 

I'm not the one spouting theories.  The burden of proof is on you, not me. 

[Mattris 416]

  

37 minutes ago, Demodex said:

You haven't proven anything. The actors and directors have said there wasn't a plan, and that Palpatine returning was a last minute decision. 

 

The Aftermath novels aren't proof enough to me that Palps was coming back. I read them and was still shocked at the asinine decision to bring him back. 

 

Rey being a Palpatine wasn't planned either.  

 

Based on numerous canon excerpts, I've proven that Palpatine's return makes sense.

 

I'm saying, the actors and directors would love you to think there was no plan. For so long, they just couldn't stop talking about (supposedly) not having a plan for the trilogy. Regardless if that's true, you believed the people that ruined Star Wars. How silly of you!

 

What evidence do you have that proves that "Palpatine returning was a last minute decision"?

 

At the prologue of the third Aftermath book, responding to his lackey's assurance of being "victorious" at the eminent battle of Endor, Emperor Palpatine responded: "One way or another, I will be."

 

You shouldn't have been shocked at Palpatine's return. He is the villain of the Saga. If Star Wars is a worthy story, a violent death - especially one caused and driven by his opponents' good intentions - will not bring this villain's ultimate defeat, death, or undoing.

 

34 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

What about the screenplays constitutes evidence?

 

The novelizations are only canon "where they align with that is seen on screen". Anything in the novelizations but not on screen are not canon

 

The use of certain, repeated, reoccurring words and phases constitutes evidence.

 

Exposition, expanded dialog/scenes, and characters' thoughts are "not on screen". Regardless, Del Rey did not use the phrase "only canon", as you said. They said:

 

"To clarify, movie novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie."

 

This means that content in the novelizations that is not onscreen could be canon. Based directly from George Lucas' story treatments and screenplays, it's safe to assume the first six novelizations are 100% canon. The same goes for the newest trilogy.

 

24 minutes ago, Demodex said:

I'm not the one spouting theories.  The burden of proof is on you, not me. 

 

But you are. You're making grand claims regarding a lack of a plan the continuation of the Saga. The burden of proof is on you, as well. So far what have you provided that is factual, canonical, or logical?

[greenturnedblue 372]

19 minutes ago, Mattris said:

This means that content in the novelizations that is not onscreen could be canon.

 

?? No it doesn't. That isn't what the tweet says. Read it again. It says the novelizations are canon "where they align with what is seen on screen". If it does not 'align what what is seen on screen', it is not canon

 

And, you are asking him to prove something does not exist? How is he meant to do that? Would you like to see a piece of plain white paper? Who needs to be convinced something unknown, immeasurable, nonexistent, undetectable exists

 

Saying 'the proof is in the pudding' does not advance your argument

[Demodex 557]

@Mattris

So you like Star Wars now?

Do you like TLJ now?

 

Just curious. 

 

IMHO, the only person who ruined SW was JJ Abrams by writing a horrible story for Episode 9. 

[Faleel 5,359]

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

 

 

IMHO, the only person who ruined SW was JJ Abrams by writing a horrible story for Episode 9. 

He had help.

[greenturnedblue 372]

When I found out JJ called Chris Terio, writer of the incredibly well-received, award winning, universally-loved film Batman v Superman (/s) to write IX, without ever even meeting him, I knew it was going to be a disaster

[Demodex 557]

I don't know why Colin Trevorrow's script was rejected. It couldn't have been as bad as TROS. 

 

I love Mattris's theory that his script was a decoy and totally fake. Like LFL would pay someone to write a fake script. 😄😄😄🙄

[TolkienSS 407]

16 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

 the incredibly well-received, award winning, universally-loved film Batman v Superman (/s) 

 

I assume this is sarcasm?

[HunterTech 994]

1 minute ago, TolkienSS said:

I assume this is sarcasm?

I would say it's obvious, but having run into quite a few Snyder cultists myself in the past, it probably would be hard to tell without the (/s).

[Mattris 416]

5 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

?? No it doesn't. That isn't what the tweet says. Read it again. It says the novelizations are canon "where they align with what is seen on screen". If it does not 'align what what is seen on screen', it is not canon

 

And, you are asking him to prove something does not exist? How is he meant to do that? Would you like to see a piece of plain white paper? Who needs to be convinced something unknown, immeasurable, nonexistent, undetectable exists

 

Saying 'the proof is in the pudding' does not advance your argument

 

No, you need to read it again. The tweet did not say, 'If the novelizations do not align what what is seen on screen, it is not canon.'  You are inferring/assuming something that was not said. (All squares are rectangles, but not all rectangles are squares.) The film novelizations are more nuanced, specific, and expansive than the films alone. That's why they were written and made available.

 

We also should be considering what Del Rey meant by "align".  From my point of view, the novelizations do align  with the films in all ways regarding the (archetype) characters, but especially the larger narrative and themes of the Saga.

 

No, I'm asking Demodex - or anyone - to prove that there was no plan for the sequel trilogy. That was the claim that was made. I never said evidence of this doesn't exist. But it think it will be impossible to prove this claim since there is no official/canon/factual evidence that indicates it beyond 'Somebody high-up at LFL said/implied there was no plan.'

 

On the contrary, proving that there was a plan  is relatively easy. To advance this argument, I began quoting some of the-proof-in-the-pudding evidence in this thread years ago.

 

But in order for this to be proven, the Saga must continue and conclude in alignment with the select canon evidence that dates all the way back to the 1977 film, 1976 screenplay, and 1976 novelization. I have no doubt that it will.

 

5 hours ago, Demodex said:

@Mattris

So you like Star Wars now?

Do you like TLJ now?

 

Just curious. 

 

IMHO, the only person who ruined SW was JJ Abrams by writing a horrible story for Episode 9. 

 

Also years ago... I confirmed that I was back on board with Star Wars, including TLJ. Try to keep up, @Demodex.

 

What story did you want/expect to conclude the trilogy/Saga? IYHO, what was "horrible" about JJ's IX?

 

4 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

When I found out JJ called Chris Terio, writer of the incredibly well-received, award winning, universally-loved film Batman v Superman (/s) to write IX, without ever even meeting him, I knew it was going to be a disaster

 

Let me get this straight:

 

The Star Wars sequel trilogy was publicly green-lit, even though George Lucas' had stated in 2005 that "There is no Episode VII." It was made publicly known that his (supposed) sequel treatments had been thrown out by the new (personally-appointed) president of LFL, a professional associate of Mr. Lucas for multiple decades at that point.

 

Each sequel episode was to be made up as they went, without a grand plan and without respecting the already-established story or lore, personally conceived by George Lucas.

 

Each of the episodes would have a different writer/director, who would be allowed to include whatever they wanted, with minimal communication/collaboration between the writer/directors.

 

Two years after being hired, one of the writer/directors was not allowed to make his film, having been fired and replaced with the trilogy's executive producer who (reluctantly) came back and made up something to conclude the Saga (again)... something that wasn't planned... because there was no plan!

 

Yeah, Occam's razor states that LFL have played this audience for gullible fools. And so does the canon.

 

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

I don't know why Colin Trevorrow's script was rejected. It couldn't have been as bad as TROS. 

 

I love Mattris's theory that his script was a decoy and totally fake. Like LFL would pay someone to write a fake script. 😄😄😄🙄

 

But we know what Trevorrow's film would have been... because its script 'leaked', with Trevorrow immediately confirming that it was, in fact, his work... along with its pre-production art... and the original score cue slates. What a day for leaks that was!

 

Give me a break.  How can anyone not see - or even reasonably suspect - that LFL are up to something?

 

How can no one here not see the writing on the wall:

 

I'm going to be proven right once again.

[Chen G. 3,950]

No.

[greenturnedblue 372]

Seriously?

 

1. Del Rey says says the novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen

2. A novelization contains something that does not align with what is seen on screen

....

Is it canon? Inductive reasoning says no, Mattris says yes, 100%

 

 

25 minutes ago, Mattris said:

'Somebody high-up at LFL said/implied there was no plan.'

And for what reason would this not be good enough?

[Mattris 416]

Yes, I'm serious. You have inferred something that Del Rey did not say.

 

They did not say, 'In the novelizations, only what is identical to the films is canon'. They used the word "align".

 

To be aware of what aligns - and how it aligns - one must interpret the films/screenplays and authors' works properly. Were the authors aligned with Lucas' intent for the overall narrative and vision for Star Wars? Given that Lucas took credit for the original novelization for quite some time - likely to establish a president that the Star Wars novelizations are direct extensions/expansions of the films - I say the answer is 100% yes.

 

Not everything can be shown on-screen. As a medium, film is inherently limited.

 

Since the novelizations' details/exposition, expanded dialog/scenes, and characters' thoughts are not on screen, do you think these excerpts are not canon?

 

What in the novelizations do you think does not align with the films?

[Mattris 416]

2 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

And for what reason would this not be good enough?

 

I thought I had been clear about what I suppose are LFL's intentions. In addition to Snoke's ironic thoughts that I recently quoted from the TLJ novelization, here are a few more canon excerpts that support what I think is happening... what has been happening for some time, in and out of the story:

 

"He was deceived by a lie. We all were."   - Obi-Wan Kenobi, Episode III

 

 

excerpts from the Revenge of the Sith novelization:

 

"This story happened a long time ago in a galaxy far, far, away. It is already over. Nothing can be done to change it.

      Though this all happened so long ago and so far away that words cannot describe the time or distance, it is also happening right now. Right here."

 

"And the final stroke of perfection is to organize the Jedi trap so that by walking into it at all, the Jedi has already lost.
      That is to say, a Jedi trap works best when one's true goal is merely to make sure that the Jedi in question spends some hours or days off somewhere on the far side of the galaxy. So that he won't be around to interfere with one's real plans.
       So that by the time he can return, it will be already too late."

[Indianagirl 298]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

 

They did not say, 'In the novelizations, only what is identical to the films is canon'. They used the word "align".

 

"Where they align leaves open room for where they don't. That is, of course, very different from employing the phrase "only what is identical" which the statement does not imply. 

[Mattris 416]

True, Del Rey's statement left room for where the novelizations may not align with the films. Though it did not say - or even imply - that 'the novelizations do not align with the films' in even a single way.

 

The fact is, the novelizations contain material in addition to "what is seen on screen in the 6 films and the Clone Wars animated movie."

 

It is my assessment that none of these additions contradict the sentiment or substance of the films. They only support them.

[Indianagirl 298]

21 minutes ago, Mattris said:

True, Del Rey's statement left room for where the novelizations may not align with the films. Though it did not say - or even imply - that 'the novelizations do not align with the films' in even a single way.

 

Leaving room for the possibility of a misalignment is an implication in of itself. Having said that I am currently unaware of an instance where alignment between the two mediums is not supported. Still, I haven't read all the novels out there and am finding myself to be quite uninterested after the release of The Rise of Skywalker. This is sad for me because I used to get so much enjoyment out of it. 

[Mattris 416]

I disagree that Del Rey's statement leaving room for the possibility of a misalignment is an implication in of itself.  An implication is, by definition, a type of conclusion that can be drawn. A possibility is something that only may be the case.

 

Regarding the Star Wars novels, I highly recommend - as someone with a relatively unique point of view - that you read the film novelizations in chronological order, starting with Episode I. Other canon volumes add to the overall experience. Let me know if you'd like me to suggest others.

 

Using Yoda's advise, perhaps you must unlearn what you have learned to get more out of the grander Star Wars story. Even though so many fans are currently disenchanted, I think there will be much enjoyment to be garnered from Star Wars moving forward.

[Chen G. 3,950]

4 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

Seriously?

I strongly advise people not be admitted to this thread sober.

 

The best way to enjoy Mattris’ ravings is with copious amounts of booze.

[Mattris 416]

While neither of us are likely to change our position on Star Wars, I strongly advise you cease goading me, Chen.

 

For your sake.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,552]

3 minutes ago, Mattris said:

For your sake.

Earth, Mattris, 2023.

[DarthDementous 1,059]

@Mattris Do you believe God exists? Random question I know but there is a point

[Indianagirl 298]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

I disagree that Del Rey's statement leaving room for the possibility of a misalignment is an implication in of itself.  An implication is, by definition, a type of conclusion that can be drawn. A possibility is something that only may be the case.

Assuming the following quote is the actual quote from Del Rey...

5 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

Seriously?

 

1. Del Rey says says the novelizations are canon where they align with what is seen on screen

 

 

The word "where" gives implication. Not possibility as you just defined. "Where" certainly allows for a reasonable conclusion that can be drawn and not just merely may be drawn. 

 

Again, this is on the assumption that the actual quote was provided. 

[Tallguy 3,401]

This is exhausting. And I'm scrolling past most of it.

[Demodex 557]

30 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

This is exhausting. And I'm scrolling past most of it.

 

You're the smartest person in this thread. 

[Fargo 297]

Please let this thread dieee

[Demodex 557]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

"And the final stroke of perfection is to organize the Jedi trap so that by walking into it at all, the Jedi has already lost.
      That is to say, a Jedi trap works best when one's true goal is merely to make sure that the Jedi in question spends some hours or days off somewhere on the far side of the galaxy. So that he won't be around to interfere with one's real plans.
       So that by the time he can return, it will be already too late."

 

 

What does this prove?  This is obviously a reference to Order 66. 

The ROTS novel was written over a decade before anyone had the idea of Palpatine returning in a sequel trilogy. 

 

And yes, I believe Palpatine returning was a last minute idea. 

[Chen G. 3,950]

49 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

This is exhausting.

Unless one is drunk. Then it’s a hoot!

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

While neither of us are likely to change our position on Star Wars, I strongly advise you cease goading me, Chen.

oh for crying out loud, at least have a sense of self-humour!

[greenturnedblue 372]

At least Chen's arguments are coherent and obviously have a great deal of thought and research behind them. I respect that even if I don't personally agree.

 

But this is just ridiculous. A quote from RotS saying "one's real plans" does not mean "Palpatine will return in Episode 9". This is evidence of nothing

[Datameister 2,044]

2 hours ago, Fargo said:

Please let this thread dieee

 

No, it's a gift that keeps on giving!

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, greenturnedblue said:

A quote from RotS saying "one's real plans" does not mean "Palpatine will return in Episode 9".

 

No kidding. It just means that Palps got Order 66 ready to go. 

[blondheim 1,157]

Mattris’ circular arguments remind me of why I’ve cut out toxic family members who belong to dogmatic ideologies. If someone held a gun to my head and made me find a silver lining to Mattris’ posts existing, I guess that’s it.

The amount of credit he gives these people is really gross. I don’t want to say “get a life” but…

[Naïve Old Fart 9,552]

I've always wondered: is there any significance in "66", or is it just a random number?

[Giftheck 917]

66 is 11 less than 77, which must be shorthand for 1977, the year Star Wars was first released. And obviously that 11 comes from 1138, which refers to George Lucas' THX-1138. And as we all know, THX is Lucasfilm's audio company. He obviously chose that name for the film with the intent on using it for that company years later.

[HunterTech 994]

You know, I get the feeling Jay is living life comfortably in having decided to keep not feeding the troll, after he would've kept telling us to long ago.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,552]

 

 

1 hour ago, Giftheck said:

...as we all know, THX is Lucasfilm's audio company. He obviously chose that name for the film with the intent on using it for that company years later.

So... nothing to do with Tomlinson Holman, then? 

 

 

 

 

1 hour ago, Giftheck said:

66 is 11 less than 77, which must be shorthand for 1977, the year Star Wars was first released. And obviously that 11 comes from 1138, which refers to George Lucas' THX-1138.

Er, thanks... I think 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

13 hours ago, Mattris said:

Let me get this straight:

 

The Star Wars sequel trilogy was publicly green-lit, even though George Lucas' had stated in 2005 that "There is no Episode VII." It was made publicly known that his (supposed) sequel treatments had been thrown out by the new (personally-appointed) president of LFL, a professional associate of Mr. Lucas for multiple decades at that point.

 

Each sequel episode was to be made up as they went, without a grand plan and without respecting the already-established story or lore, personally conceived by George Lucas.

 

Each of the episodes would have a different writer/director, who would be allowed to include whatever they wanted, with minimal communication/collaboration between the writer/directors.

 

Two years after being hired, one of the writer/directors was not allowed to make his film, having been fired and replaced with the trilogy's executive producer who (reluctantly) came back and made up something to conclude the Saga (again)... something that wasn't planned... because there was no plan!

 

Yes, that literally is what happened, point for point.

[Giftheck 917]

Bob Iger even said that himself in his book IIRC, as did George Lucas in various interviews.

 

 

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

 

 

So... nothing to do with Tomlinson Holman, then? 

 

 

 

 

Er, thanks... I think 

Gotta go the whole hog if you're gonna make up bullshit theories, right? I stopped before "George Lucas invented everything", though.  Had to show some restraint

[Tallguy 3,401]

So this is one hell of a coverup. Never have so many people reported mishaps and changes in directions to hide the fact that THEY KNEW WHAT THEY WERE DOING ALL ALONG. 

[Mattris 416]

As I see it, they really tried too hard  to cover it up, especially as of late ('the Disney era'). That in itself should have been a massive red flag that something unorthodox was afoot. But in reality, the current, recent, and even a few former LFL employees'/contractors' controversial/conflicting/critical/pathetic/implicating/publicly-made comments were deliberately-espoused nonsense, a distraction from their real plans.

 

But the audience still can't fathom they're wrong about Star Wars, including how it was made. So these makers of it must be admitting that it was a hodge-podge all along, especially IV-IX. That's something they would like their audience to know.  Right?  Of course, right!

 

A conspiracy theory with vast implications? You bet.

 

Impossible that it's true?

 

Just watch.

[Datameister 2,044]

You're a hoot, @Mattris. I've got a moment to play along, so let me ask you this: What would it take to convince you that there's no conspiracy?

[Nick1Ø66 4,722]

On 7/12/2022 at 10:47 AM, Mattris said:

@Nick1Ø66, do you think I'm being disingenuous?

 

Not necessarily. I'm also allowing for the possibility that you're simply barking mental.

[Demodex 557]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

But in reality, the current, recent, and even a few former LFL employees'/contractors' controversial/conflicting/critical/pathetic/implicating/publicly-made comments were deliberately-espoused nonsense, a distraction from their real plans.

 

😄😄😄

 

WHY WOULD THEY WASTE THEIR TIME??

[Mattris 416]

21 hours ago, DarthDementous said:

@Mattris Do you believe God exists? Random question I know but there is a point

 

I choose not to speak about such personal things on this forum. Feel free to make your point, though.

 

21 hours ago, Tallguy said:

This is exhausting. And I'm scrolling past most of it.

 

What parts do you not scroll past?

 

20 hours ago, Demodex said:

What does this prove?  This is obviously a reference to Order 66. 

The ROTS novel was written over a decade before anyone had the idea of Palpatine returning in a sequel trilogy.

 

And yes, I believe Palpatine returning was a last minute idea. 

 

Yes, it was a reference to Order 66... and the Battle of Endor... and the Battle of Exegol... just to name a few.  Do you think these were the pinnacle of his plots, plans, and traps?  Which of them were successes for him?

 

The ROTS was written two decades  after The Emperor was made the true villain of the OT.

 

How "last minute" do you think Palpatine was added to the sequels?

 

20 hours ago, Chen G. said:

oh for crying out loud, at least have a sense of self-humour!

 

Oh, I do. Trust that I'm laughing at you off-screen.

 

If you answered my direct questions, I might respect you more.

 

18 hours ago, greenturnedblue said:

At least Chen's arguments are coherent and obviously have a great deal of thought and research behind them. I respect that even if I don't personally agree.

 

But this is just ridiculous. A quote from RotS saying "one's real plans" does not mean "Palpatine will return in Episode 9". This is evidence of nothing

 

Which of Chen's arguments are coherent and have a great deal of thought and research behind them? When has he been proven factually or canonically correct?

 

No, it just implies that Palpatine may have had other irons in the fire of which the Jedi - and the audience - were not aware.

 

17 hours ago, Demodex said:

No kidding. It just means that Palps got Order 66 ready to go. 

 

Right. Other Orders were not yet ready... or it wasn't yet the right time to move forward with those pieces on the board.

 

17 hours ago, blondheim said:

Mattris’ circular arguments remind me of why I’ve cut out toxic family members who belong to dogmatic ideologies. If someone held a gun to my head and made me find a silver lining to Mattris’ posts existing, I guess that’s it.

The amount of credit he gives these people is really gross. I don’t want to say “get a life” but…

 

What circular arguments? What is your argument or position regarding Star Wars? I'm unique on this forum in that I have Star Wars credibility. How about you?

 

15 hours ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

I've always wondered: is there any significance in "66", or is it just a random number?

 

I think George decided to refrain from making it Order 666, which would have been too on-the-nose.

 

13 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Yes, that literally is what happened, point for point.

 

You don't know that. But it should be obvious that it's what LFL wants their audience to conclude. Those who have perceived the making of 'the new Star Wars' in this way are on the far side of the galaxy.

 

12 hours ago, Giftheck said:

Bob Iger even said that himself in his book IIRC, as did George Lucas in various interviews.

 

No, Iger said in his book that George Lucas was told that his sequel treatments would not be used for the upcoming trilogy, as he has assumed they would. 'Kathy promised!'  He then quit the company.

 

9 hours ago, Datameister said:

You're a hoot, @Mattris. I've got a moment to play along, so let me ask you this: What would it take to convince you that there's no conspiracy?

 

I can't think of anything. What do you got?

 

8 hours ago, Nick1Ø66 said:

Not necessarily. I'm also allowing for the possibility that you're simply barking mental.

 

Because you simply disagree with me? Because you can't fathom - or want to publicly admit - that it's possibly/likely that you are being played?

 

7 hours ago, Demodex said:

😄😄😄

 

WHY WOULD THEY WASTE THEIR TIME??

 

They aren't wasting theirs. You are wasting yours.

[Demodex 557]

20 minutes ago, Mattris said:

No, Iger said in his book that George Lucas was told that his sequel treatments would not be used for the upcoming trilogy, as he has assumed they would. 'Kathy promised!'  He then quit the company.

 

So your source is someone at LFL, but you keep telling us LFL is lying to us.  Ok.  🤘🤔

25 minutes ago, Mattris said:

4 hours ago, Datameister said:

You're a hoot, @Mattris. I've got a moment to play along, so let me ask you this: What would it take to convince you that there's no conspiracy?

 

I can't think of anything. What do you got?

 

That statement implies you are wasting our time because there's no chance we are going to change your mind. 

[Datameister 2,044]

58 minutes ago, Mattris said:

I can't think of anything. What do you got?

 

Oh, I have no interest in trying to persuade you. I'm just fascinated with your answers.

 

How about this—what are some examples of multi-decade franchises whose films were not planned out? And how do you know?