Star Wars Disenchantment

[publicist 4,643]

The singing turned you off.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Oh did it ever.

 

And I was more of a Looney Tunes kid back then anyway. The other kids would bash you up if you were caught liking Disney cartoons.

[Mattris 416]

On 10/3/2018 at 10:52 PM, Stefancos said:

I think in the current social and political climate, such a thing is credible. 

There have been ongoing efforts by certain governments to use social media in an attempt to destabilise and influence other societies.

 

I don't know if thats the case here, but its not outside the realm of possibility.

 

You "think"? Where are the facts and proof? Do you honestly believe that the Russian government, Russian Twitter 'bots', or some Russian hacker group is, in any significant way ("up to 50%"), responsible for the fan backlash after the release of TLJ? This is an absurd excuse, and you know it. Instead could it be:

 

- the (lack of) story/character progression set-up in TFA
- the destruction of Luke Skywalker

- the emasculation of all male characters
- the needless new 'feminine' / SJW characters and events

- Leia does next to nothing in TLJ, except Mary Poppins float back to the ship... after some random TIE fighter pilot took the shot

- one interesting, promising villain killed... only to be replaced by one that just seems unhinged (not smart, feared, or threatening)
- Rey is still a Mary Sue... still without explanation

 

... that the fans came to realize these things by sharing their opinions on blogs, forums, and Youtube videos?

 

On 10/3/2018 at 11:20 PM, Manakin Skywalker said:

That's simply a fact. I didn't hear a damn thing from these trolls until TLJ came out. Before that everyone was relatively happy. TFA was considered a decent (albeit now the best) film by cynical fans, and Rogue One was considered a good film by most. TLJ literally started all of this. To deny that would be simply idiotic.

 

Wrong. The fact is, a significant portion of the fans called out TFA for what it is: a rehash of ANH that features a Mary Sue character.

 

I have good reason to believe that TFA is now no longer the 'best' of the new films as ranked by the fans. That honor goes to Rogue One.

 

Instead of taking responsibility for the events of TLJ and the reaction it created, the film-makers should have asked and/or encouraged the fans to wait patiently for the conclusion of the story. Instead, they proceeded to blame these 'toxic fans' as sexist, racist, "manbabies", "threatened by women". The media has aggressively pushed this narrative, as well, in a sly attempt counter the fans' message. This is probably a leading explanation of why many - if not most - of you feel the way you do. Disney and Kathleen Kennedy have been entirely silent on this matter, failing to distance themselves from the grossly unprofessional language of their employees. This has majorly pissed-off a lot of Star Wars fans, who feel this behavior is worse than just making a bad/underwhelming film or two.

 

To blame the backlash - or popular decline of SW - squarely on TLJ shows that you are in denial as much as Lucasfilm. When RJ shrugs off any criticisms and proceeds to name-call fans almost daily - along with other prominent Lucasfilm employees, people pick up on this.

 

You should probably stop using the term 'troll'. It's insulting to the people who just want to love Star Wars and not be scorned just because they don't like something and they want to share their opinion... whether it's bad story-telling, out-of-place jokes, awkwardly-inserted social politics for agenda-driven-sake, or lack of respect for traditional character/themes.

 

Do you think the disgruntled fans are still just a vocal minority? I don't. But I can say with near-certainty that they will not be a financial minority when Episode 9 arrives. All things considered, call you really blame people for feeling that Lucasfilm does not deserve their business?

 

With KK seemingly being rewarded for failing, this situation continues to get more unbelievable. And to make matters worse, many fans on the other side of things seem to want to bury their head in the sand, make silly excuses, and try to like/love whatever they feed you - propaganda and all.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

My reasons for liking TLJ:

 

- the explosions

- special effects, the level of special effects, I mean HUGE!

- those cute horse donkey thingies

- sexy female lead

- Leia looking a bit prettier in this one than TFA

- the subtext of Luke's densely veiled erectile dysfunction

- the comedic antics of the black guy and the Chinese lady

- the classical music playing in the background

- BB8 riding a giant Empire robot walker thingy!

[Mattris 416]

Just curious, how many times did you see TLJ in theaters. And how much SW merchandise have you purchased since you saw it?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

2 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Just curious, how many times did you see TLJ in theaters. And how much SW merchandise have you purchased since you saw it?

 

I didn't see it in cinemas. I bought the soundtrack on CD and LP, the blu-ray, the poster and the novelisation. That's usually the only merchandise from a SW movie I buy anyway.

[Arpy 4,145]

31 minutes ago, Mattris said:

 

With KK seemingly being rewarded for failing, this situation could hardly be worse. And to make matters worse, many fans on the other side of things seem to want to bury their head in the sand, make silly excuses, and try to like/love whatever they feed you - propaganda and all.

Kathleen Kennedy didn't fail. She's the head of one of the world's most lucrative IP right now. Oh... wait, she failed in your eyes, she produced TFA and TLJ and is sinking Star Wars... 

 

Yeah. No.

 

 

 

'Fans on the other side' - a completely moronic statement. There aren't sides, there's fans across a spectrum. All could never agree on one thing.

 

 

Make excuses? Try to love?

 

You're not seriously suggesting those of us who liked the film are faking it or are deluded? 

 

Who are you say what others like, as if you were the arbiter of their likes and dislikes.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

41 minutes ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

 

I didn't see it in cinemas. I bought the soundtrack on CD and LP, the blu-ray, the poster and the novelisation. That's usually the only merchandise from a SW movie I buy anyway.

YOU like Star Wars? Wow, and I used to think you were cool, man!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

3 minutes ago, kaseykockroach said:

YOU like Star Wars? Wow, and I used to think you were cool, man!

 

Never heard of it.

[Mattris 416]

On 9/29/2018 at 3:33 PM, Chen G. said:

More than delivered. Outside of Solo, every film did comfortably over a billion dollars. That's amazing.

 

I didn't for a moment think she would be let off. No one in their right mind would.

 

Adjusted for inflation, EVERY STAR WARS FILM has made over a billion dollars. She presided over the first one that took a loss - in the neighborhood of $200M.

 

I don't understand. From a business perspective, why would Disney extended her contract?

 

On 9/30/2018 at 4:10 PM, Demodex said:

Should I have?  Actually I never clicked on your links because I think you've already said all there is to say. 

 

I know there are people unhappy with it, but in MY EXPERIENCE, they are a minority.  You're the only person I've talked to in that category. 

 

Yes, please click the links to see what others have to say. And I have plenty more to share.

 

https://variety.com/2018/film/news/kathleen-kennedy-lucasfilm-deal-2021-1202961551/#article-comments

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-chief-kathleen-kennedys-lucasfilm-deal-extended-three-years-1147653

 

I'm curious, what places on the internet do you visit that contribute to your experience regarding the state of Star Wars?

 

On 10/1/2018 at 10:34 PM, Manakin Skywalker said:

I'm not going to dislike an entire film just because a director has said some potentially questionable things. There were thousands of good people who spent over a year making this film, and they all did a great job, therefore I'm not going to just shit on the entire project just because of one person.

 

I'm not saying that you should dislike TLJ just because of what RJ has said, but his comments should be factor in your overall opinion of the film. People dislike companies all the time over questionable/objectionable statements from (usual top-level) employees, who represent their company. And RJ did not just post "potentially questionable things". He flat-out dismisses all criticisms of his film... and calls Star Wars fans "assholes" and "manbabies" - among other insults - regularly on Twitter. What a despicable low-life of a person.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 7:20 AM, Nick1066 said:

I do agree that Johnson is a superb filmmaker, but I don’t think crafting your story specifically to subvert expectations and head off anticipated criticism is necessarily the right approach when you’re doing something like Star Wars. The approach should be making the best film you can, but recognise that you are but one player in this symphony, and it’s not your place to play your own discordant notes because you’re a special genius and your pet vision is more important than serving the story. Play with your own style, to be sure. But show some respect for your fellow players, for what’s come before, and your audience.

 

Well, let me clarify. Throwing over the card table should not have been the approach for a saga film. I would be more than fine, even welcome, shaking up the formula in the non-saga movies.

 

I'm not convinced that Johnson is a superb filmmaker... and I will probably will never be, since I refuse to view another of his films until he apologizes to the fans... at least for his insulting Tweets.

 

Thank you, Nick, for this excellent post!

 

On 10/2/2018 at 7:33 AM, mstrox said:

Nobody is saying that the Russian government hacked Star Wars.  Russian hacker farms (only known to be Russian from IP addresses, sign-up emails, etc) were mobilized by someone for some reason to flood social media and ratings aggregators with certain responses.

 

Its not like a new thing.  You can buy Twitter or Instagram followers from these places by the thousands for very cheap.

 

Well, you’re the smartest one here, so I’m assuming you know how to google something if you somehow haven’t kept up with the news over the last two years.

 

Anyone who gives any credence to the 'Russian hacker/bot theory' are not giving people enough credit for making their own informed decisions... recognizing crap when they see it. Without proof of any kind, I interpret this Russian bot nonsense* as a strategic release in an attempt to control the narrative... and desperate attempt to de-legitimize the fan backlash that is very real due to the many reasons that I've detailed.

 

* 38-pages of 'research' of Tweets filtered to fit a narrative (research only included Tweets that tagged RJ on Twitter, not manually read). Twitter is not the real world. But the 'researcher' obviously is hoping to boost his career... and has already asked Rian Johnson out for coffee!

 

On 10/2/2018 at 10:32 AM, Demodex said:

One thing I liked was when Luke threw his lightsaber over his shoulder.  It was humerous. 

 

I liked nearly every scene on Luke's island. I like that Luke was the opposite of what everyone was expecting.  It was more interesting that way.  I thought his character and story arc was perfect. 

 

I loved Luke's scenes with Yoda and R2. 

 

I liked the whole throne room scene. Yeah, it was too similar to ROTJ, but I thought it was fun. 

 

I liked Holdo's sacrifice. Can't believe no one thought of using lightspeed as a weapon before. 

 

I loved the whole sequence on Crait. Great fun!

 

Luke throwing his old lightsaber over his shoulder was comically horrible. He could have just ignored Rey and walked past... or taken the lightsaber and given it back to her... or tossed it gently on the ground. But no... we got a comical toss over his shoulder - over a cliff, no less - while walking past Rey without a single word. This destruction of Luke Skywalker had begun.

 

Luke wasn't "the opposite of what everyone was expecting." A disillusioned Luke, indeed, would have been interesting. But his character and story arc seemed incomplete to most fans.

 

I'll admit, Luke's scene with Yoda was one of the few highlights of the film. His scene with R2 should have happened after Rey had left. R2 could have then shown Luke the Princess Leia hologram in hopes that it would (further) convince him to help Leia and the Resistance. Hell, he could have brought R2 back in his X-wing, which we saw was still in his possession.

 

The throne room fight scene was exciting but raised far too many questions: Why did Kylo have so much trouble defeating the guardsmen, who were without the use of the Force? Rey seemed to hold her own (Mary Sue)... especially when one of the guard's daggers was digitally edited out. 

 

Re: Holdo's sacrifice. Did the audience really care about her? Why did she have to be on the ship to use it as a weapon? Why didn't she execute her plan immediately after the last transport ship had exited the hanger... not after many of the transports had been destroyed? (While this scene was exhilarating and impressive on first viewing, many thought this scene did damage to SW, in general. I tend to agree. With "lightspeed as a weapon" introduced into Star Wars, I expect this to become a regular occurrence in SW moving forward. But I'll bet that we will rarely, if ever, see it again.)

 

The whole sequence on Crait was not "fun" for me. Rey seemed to have fun killing three TIE pilots, though! Rose's Finn intervention was utterly ridiculous and embarrassing. Rey lifted rocks.. how fitting. The uniquely-designed crystal foxes and Chewie flying the Falcon (with the cute/silly Porgs) were the most 'fun' parts in that final act. Luke's goodbye to Leia was a touching moment. Everything else I would like to forget.

 

On 10/2/2018 at 10:50 AM, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I liked the Last Jedi very much.

 

Every few pages, someone seems to post a comment like this. Hmmm...

 

On 10/2/2018 at 7:28 PM, Demodex said:

I just thought it was funny that after all your bitching about how she ruined Star Wars, apparently Disney doesn't agree.   I can only imagine all the sexist whiners getting so upset by this.  I think TPM and AOTC are utter crap but I'm not online telling people these films ruined Star Wars. I just don't watch them. 

 

Under Kennedy we got 4 pretty damn good films. Since TLJ is my favorite since Empire, I'm fine with her staying.

 

That's how I explain what I like about movies.  They're just movies. I'm not going to waste my day getting into much more detail, especially when everything's already been said. 

 

None of my posts on this board are more than a few sentences long. I just don't have that much to say. 

 

This was just a symbolic gesture by Disney, who was just trying to calm things down. The vast majority of people who don't like her job performance are not sexist, so I wish you'd stop saying this. At least TPM and AOTC were made by George Lucas.

 

If "everything's already been said" and you "just don't have that much to say", why stick around?

 

On 10/2/2018 at 8:34 PM, The Illustrious Jerry said:

I probably wouldn't even know about Kathleen Kennedy if it wasn't for the constant bringing up of her name in such hatred. You'd think you were obsessed with the lady.

 

As the President of Lucasfilm, the Star Wars films, creative development, expenditures, and profits are her responsibility. A large percentage of the fans don't approve of her performance. Some feel that she's horribly misguided and should leave the company ASAP. I'm one of them.

 

On 10/3/2018 at 10:25 AM, mstrox said:

Yes.  She produced four films which have been critically well received across the board.  Three of them were the highest grossing films of their respective years.  The fourth (Solo) currently is the 8th highest grossing film of the year domestically, and would have been profitable at its grosses had the budget not ballooned due to extensive reshoots that rivaled the time and money spent on the initial shoots.  She’s made the tough calls regarding reshoots and staffing changes when movies aren’t working.  Other aspects of the franchise (TV, books, comics) have been tremendously profitable and generally critically successful since she took over.

 

"Critically well received" doesn't mean a damn thing. Bottom line profit does, though. A $200M loss is unheard of in cinema. And for a Star Wars film? No film should require extensive reshoots that rival the time and money spent on the initial shoots. Kathleen Kennedy’s "tough call regarding reshoots and staffing changes when" Solo wasn’t working was not a first for her. She did the same thing with Rogue One... right before she fired Colin Trevorrow from Episode 9. This is shockingly bad decision making from Kathleen Kennedy.

 

How do you know that the TV, books, and comics "have been tremendously profitable" since she took over?

 

On 10/3/2018 at 10:39 AM, Nick Parker said:

A few people did agree, yet perhaps you noticed others agreed with me, as well. And just a quick reminder, my anger was directed not just about the Civil Rights Movement. 

 

Mattris, I've honestly never been in this position before, and this is very hard to say:

 

 What I said was rude, vulgar, explosive, and yes, very vicious. It's something that I almost never do. Deliberate as it was, it's a side I hope to not show on here again, and indeed very seldom in the "real world".

 

Yet, without any further intended disrespect to you, I can only honestly say that any apology I make for that post would be contrived. 

 

No one "agreed" with you, Nick. Stefancos said "People are allowed to occasionally lose their shit over reading a defence of something they find repugnant". All other members commented - or endorsed comments - saying that what you directly at me was out of line. If you don't like the way I debate or discuss, then you only had to say just that... or simply ignore me. Resorting to vicious, personal insults is never the mature way to resolve quarrels. (And after calling me "amigo" and hoping my life improves in previous posts immediately before my 'quote post', can you see how your reaction seemed to come out of left field in the extreme?)

 

I apologize if you I offended you in any way. But I will continue to post as I see fit... and stay on topic. If you cannot bring yourself to offer me a sincere apology, then I you will have "crossed my threshold of acceptance"... and I will just ignore you.

 

Thanks goes out to the moderators @Jay for correcting the topic title... and for not closing it altogether, per Nick's requests.

 

On 10/3/2018 at 12:14 PM, Manakin Skywalker said:

Yes because all of the films and shows have been, in my opinion, great. I have absolutely zero problems with her or her handling of Lucasfilm. The only problems I have are with the alt-right trolls trying to turn Star Wars to shit. There are extremely obvious parallels between the TLJ haters and the average 3-to-5-year-old. They can't get their way, so they whine and scream, and try to manipulate others into giving them what they want.

 

Absolutely zero problems with her or her handling of Lucasfilm? In your opinion, is her job performance flawless? If so, you are delusional and/or ignorant. 

 

Alt-right trolls trying to turn Star Wars to shit.  It's the far-left Lucasfilm employees - most of which were, I'm sure, hired by KK - that are turning Star Wars to shit as we speak.

 

Perhaps you've heard of "The customer is always right." In free-market capitalism (and business, in general), the goal is to satisfy your customers. If you piss them off, they will not pay you for your product or service, and you will be fired... or your company will go out of business. Considering all Disney has invested in Star Wars, I don't believe that they will let the latter situation occur. In an attempt to earn back the fans they have pissed off, Disney will listen to them and course correct... eventually. Mark my words.

 

On 10/4/2018 at 1:55 AM, Arpy said:

There aren't sides, there's fans across a spectrum. All could never agree on one thing.

 

Make excuses? Try to love?

 

You're not seriously suggesting those of us who liked the film are faking it or are deluded? 

 

Who are you say what others like, as if you were the arbiter of their likes and dislikes.

 

A significant portion of the fans agree that Star Wars is on this wrong path, TLJ sucked, and Katheleen Kennedy needs to go.

 

I'm suggesting that those of you who liked TLJ are, indeed, Star Wars fans. I suspect most of you want to enjoy/like/love everything Star Wars... so much so that you will focus on the positive aspects (or silver lining) and would prefer to ignore any flaws - or at least not focus on them, no matter how major - with the intent on (overall) approving of the Star Wars (thing)... because Star Wars is meant to be fun and enjoyed!

 

Others may just not give Star Wars much thought... or just have low expectations for this high-profile, massive-budgeted film series that has millions of fans worldwide.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 hours ago, Mattris said:

You "think"? Where are the facts and proof? Do you honestly believe that the Russian government, Russian Twitter 'bots', or some Russian hacker group is, in any significant way ("up to 50%"), responsible for the fan backlash after the release of TLJ? This is an absurd excuse, and you know it.

 

You asked me what I belief and I have told you.

 

Doing any more would just be feeding a troll. Which we should probably all stop doing.

 

 

[Arpy 4,145]

I'm sorry @Mattris, but my love for Star Wars hasn't clouded my judgement and god knows how many times I've criticized The Last Jedi over the past nine months. I have said it multiple times here and elsewhere that I was disappointed by the film, and have since grown to love it. And no, you can't pass off our positive reception for the film as simply having 'lower standards' than you appear to do, it's not how this works. Let's say it were true that a majority of fans feel that Kennedy should step down, or that Star Wars is in the gutter, this wouldn't yield any real consequence on the operations of a multi-billion dollar company who are clearly doing okay. I really think that a lot of the negativity aimed towards the film was amplified by the soapbox that is social media, fairly giving platform for anyone to voice their opinions, but also to a great deal of emotionally charged people who think they're the caretakers of the franchise. It's true to say that these companies do care and cater for their audiences, but too often is the case where fans conflate their love and investment for a franchise as having a creative stake in the success of a film. It's hard when a film in a franchise you like doesn't meet your expectations or is worse than you thought, but it's something you'll have to accept or waste energy on things you can't change.

 

All of your criticisms of the film aren't simple faults that not just anyone could've picked up on and have before, they go beyond that to crass oversimplifications of issues that aren't really issues to begin with, and you mask that by hiding behind consensus as if it were that simple. For example, criticizing and characterizing Leia flying back to the ship as being 'Mary Poppins' isn't a criticism worth addressing, and to believe a director for a sci-fi/fantasy film had to explain this on social media is fucking embarrassing for those who couldn't accept that Leia could use the force. 

 

From our interactions here and based on a majority of your posts, you seem to be making a great deal of assumptions based on what others think and believe, as if you're the only one who can see things clearly for what they are, when you're just another jumped up Star Wars fan who felt they were robbed. 

[Chen G. 3,949]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Adjusted for inflation, EVERY STAR WARS FILM has made over a billion dollars. She presided over the first one that took a loss - in the neighborhood of $200M.

  

I don't understand. From a business perspective, why would Disney extended her contract?

 

Because she - and I can't stress this enough- MAKES A HELL OF A LOT OF MONEY. That's, ultimately, what being a producer is all about. Your problems (and mine) reside with the directors and screenwriters and perhaps with certain stipulations and caveats that Kennedy may be putting on them.

 

You're right, Solo is downright embarrasing, but as it stands its just one misstep (speaking strictly from a financial standpoint right now). Certainly, not insignificant, but hardly enough to fire a very succesful producer over.

 

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

is comments should be factor in your overall opinion of the film. People dislike companies all the time over questionable/objectionable statements from (usual top-level) employees, who represent their company. And RJ did not just post "potentially questionable things". He flat-out dismisses all criticisms of his film... and calls Star Wars fans "assholes" and "manbabies" - among other insults - regularly on Twitter. What a despicable low-life of a person.

 

That usually doesn't at all factor into what I think of films: I judge the art, not the artist and not the artistic process. And to (finaly) speak to the art on display:

 

Quote

Luke throwing his old lightsaber over his shoulder was comically horrible.

  

True. If he had only dropped it at his feet instead of over his shoulder, it would have been a markedly different effect.

 

Quote

Luke wasn't "the opposite of what everyone was expecting." A disillusioned Luke, indeed, would have been interesting. His character and story arc seemed incomplete to most fans.

 

Also true. EVERYONE was expecting a disillusioned Luke: that's essentially what The Force Awakens set up. To say that it was unexpected or bold is really ignoring the film that came before.

 

Connected to that, I should say that the same was true for me with regards to the film subverting other expectations: I never expected Rey or Kylo to "switch sides", or Rey's lineage to be at all significant - so the whole time that Rian was teasing those things I was thinking "who do you think you're fooling?"

 

Quote

The throne room scene was exciting but raised far too many questions: Why did Kylo have so much trouble defeating the guardsmen, who were without the use of the Force? Rey seemed to hold her own (Mary Sue)... especially when one of the guard's daggers was digitally edited out. 

 

I have several issues with that sequence: One, I just have a cordial dislike for Snoke: by far the worst Andy Serkis motion-capture performance. Second, that its intercut with two other sequences going on simultaneously - something I almost always find overwrought, and lastly because that's not how the film ends (more at the end of this post).

 

Also, the faux-documentary zoom-in that is used in this scene and in Crait wasn't a cinematographical touch I'm overly fond over. Not least because it harkens back to Attack of the Clones - and again its just a case of Johnson's style ultimately being a distraction and kind of standing as a buffer between me and his film.

 

Quote

Ah, Holdo's sacrifice. Did the audience really care about her? Why did she have to be on the ship? Why didn't she execute the plans immediately after the last escape transport had exited?

 

It is kind of funny that the only deaths (outside of Luke's) in the film are of "characters" we know nearly nothing about and given no reason to care for: Rose's sister gets this heartfelt scene of self-sacrifice before we the audience know who she or Rose are. Holdo spends her first few scenes in the film spouting out uber-cheesy adages and motivational speeches ("hope is like the sun..." - put a sock in it, lady!), and spends the rest of the film antagonistic to one of the main characters for no discernable reason.

 

Quote

The whole sequence on Crait was not "fun" for me. Rey seemed to have fun killing three TIE pilots, though! Rose's Finn intervention was utterly ridiculous and embarrassing. Rey lifted rocks.. how fitting. The uniquely-designed crystal foxes and Chewie flying the Falcon (with the Porgs) were the best parts. Everything else I'd rather forget.

 

I like the sequence (with the exception of the Rose/Finn stuff) but after the first "false" finale it feels kind of breathless and overwhelming. I think Chris Hartwell said it best when he remarked that "Rian did seem to want his cake and to eat it, too; dare I say greedily gobbling up more storyline than was necessary for this middle chapter." That's really this film in a nutshell.

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

The vast majority of people who don't like her job performance are not sexist, so I wish you'd stop saying this. 

 

 

*sigh*

 

A lot of the complaints are sexist. One of the female stars was bullied so bad she left social media. When your complaint is that the movie has too many strong female characters, you sound sexist. Just calling it as I see it. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

At least TPM and AOTC are were made by George Lucas.

 

So what?  They're still not as good as TLJ.  The acting and dialogue in AOTC is so hideous I can't watch it. 

The best SW movie wasnt directed by Lucas, thank God. 

 

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

why stick around?

 

The more I read other people's comments the more I appreciate TLJ for how awesome it is.  I've been waiting for weeks to have the time to watch it another few times. 

 

The throwing of the lightsaber over his shoulder was perfect. It shows just how disillusioned Luke is. Loved it!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Oh come on, I love AOTC!

[Demodex 557]

5 minutes ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

Oh come on, I love AOTC!

 

Then you are lost!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's a story about the love between a man and a woman. Probably too old fashioned and regrethive for soy latte Millennials.

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

2 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

Because she - and I can't stress this enough- MAKES A HELL OF A LOT OF MONEY. That's, ultimately, what being a producer is all about. Your problems (and mine) reside with the directors and screenwriters and perhaps with certain stipulations and caveats that Kennedy may be putting on them.

 

You're right, Solo is downright embarrasing, but as it stands its just one misstep (speaking strictly from a financial standpoint right now). Certainly, not insignificant, but hardly enough to fire a very succesful producer over.

 

 

That usually doesn't at all factor into what I think of films: I judge the art, not the artist and not the artistic process. And to (finaly) speak to the art on display:

 

  

True. If he had only dropped it at his feet instead of over his shoulder, it would have been a markedly different effect.

 

 

Also true. EVERYONE was expecting a disillusioned Luke: that's essentially what The Force Awakens set up. To say that it was unexpected or bold is really ignoring the film that came before.

 

Connected to that, I should say that the same was true for me with regards to the film subverting other expectations: I never expected Rey or Kylo to "switch sides", or Rey's lineage to be at all significant - so the whole time that Rian was teasing those things I was thinking "who do you think you're fooling?"

 

 

I have several issues with that sequence: One, I just have a cordial dislike for Snoke: by far the worst Andy Serkis motion-capture performance. Second, that its intercut with two other sequences going on simultaneously - something I almost always find overwrought, and lastly because that's not how the film ends (more at the end of this post).

 

Also, the faux-documentary zoom-in that is used in this scene and in Crait wasn't a cinematographical touch I'm overly fond over. Not least because it harkens back to Attack of the Clones - and again its just a case of Johnson's style ultimately being a distraction and kind of standing as a buffer between me and his film.

 

 

It is kind of funny that the only deaths (outside of Luke's) in the film are of "characters" we know nearly nothing about and given no reason to care for: Rose's sister gets this heartfelt scene of self-sacrifice before we the audience know who she or Rose are. Holdo spends her first few scenes in the film spouting out uber-cheesy adages and motivational speeches ("hope is like the sun..." - put a sock in it, lady!), and spends the rest of the film antagonistic to one of the main characters for no discernable reason.

 

 

I like the sequence (with the exception of the Rose/Finn stuff) but after the first "false" finale it feels kind of breathless and overwhelming. I think Chris Hartwell said it best when he remarked that "Rian did seem to want his cake and to eat it, too; dare I say greedily gobbling up more storyline than was necessary for this middle chapter." That's really this film in a nutshell.

 

Rec'd, not necessarily for agreement, but because you're the only one who has a chance against Mattris in a war of attrition.

 

The cycle of violence must end!

 

[Arpy 4,145]

@Chen G. Have you even seen Solo yet? Why not just watch it, it's not hard!

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

I don't see the female characters in TLJ, except perhaps Leia, as being particularly strong.  Their "strength" is built by showing the men around them to be incompetent, or conflicted, or arrogant, and not based on their own agency. It's just another form of sexism (not to mention lazy writing) to define a woman's strength simply in contrast to weakness in men. It's the same kind of sloppy writing that sit coms engage in, that show the long suffering wife to be strong simply by virtue of her husband being a bumbling, clueless idiot.

 

Leia's always been strong, not because Luke and Han are bumbling dolts, but because she's just strong in her own right. Katniss is a genre female character who is strong in her own right. As is Hermoine Granger. As are Galadriel and Arwen. Gandalf and Aragorn don't need to be stupid and weak for Galadriel and Arwen to be wise and strong. They don't need to have the men around them be deeply flawed idiots in order to have their own strength & agency. 

 

Luke is a washed up loser. Poe is impulsive, arrogant and childish. Finn is clueless. The women they're paired with are made strong simply because they're not those things. 

 

Thank God JJ killed off Han because whatever RJ would have done to him would have broken my heart.

 

 

22 hours ago, Arpy said:

@Chen G. Have you even seen Solo yet? Why not just watch it, it's not hard!

 

Seconded! It's fantastic! 

[Chen G. 3,949]

32 minutes ago, Arpy said:

@Chen G. Have you even seen Solo yet? Why not just watch it, it's not hard!

 

Not yet. I'm sure I'll catch it at some point, but it just doesn't interest me conceptually. That said, I'm not condeming the film's actual content: it may be decent film on its own. when I said it was embarassing I was talking commercially.

 

1 hour ago, Demodex said:

A lot of the complaints are sexist. One of the female stars was bullied so bad she left social media. When your complaint is that the movie has too many strong female characters, you sound sexist. Just calling it as I see it. 

 

I don't seem to recall that the bullying of Marie-Tran was sexist in nature. Maybe I'm wrong, though.

 

And as for having "too many strong female characters" - first, I'll refer you to @Nick1066's point about making strong female characters not by emasculating the male characters, and second - yes, when an action-adventure film is overcrowded with women, it can feel jarring.

 

It is, at its core, a decidedly masculine genre, and it makes sense that it would be predominantly (but certainly never entirely) populated by men. This isn't a sexist remark to make.

 

I do seem to recall Kathleen Kennedy herself saying that it was her aim for Lucasfilm (and by extension, the casts of the films produced by them) to have similar proportions (at least with regards to gender) as the demographics of the general populace.

 

A few examples:

 

Quote

Kathy’s [Kathleen Kennedy, Lucasfilm’s president] leadership team has always been 50% women[...]At the moment 75% of the people in visual effects are men and that’s unacceptable. Our ratio at ILM is better than that.

 

https://www.fanthatracks.com/news/film-music-tv/lucasfilms-lynwen-brennan-discusses-industry-equality-and-a-female-director-for-star-wars/

 

and

 

Quote

In the creative community, there's no excuse for not making a more equitable environment. It literally comes down to companies that just aren't trying hard enough

https://screenrant.com/star-wars-lucasfilm-executive-team-diversity-female-kathleen-kennedy/

 

That has never been an ideal of western societies. Our only ideal is for equal opportunity. A workplace (or, to the point, a film cast) can be predominantly male-dominated (or female-dominated like nurses and teachers) and still be perfectly equitable with regards to opportunity.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

11 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

That said, I'm not condeming the film's actual content: it may be decent film on its own. when I said it was embarassing I was talking commercially.

 

Yes, and I appreciate your original clarification, Chen. 

14 minutes ago, Nick1066 said:

Seconded! It's fantastic

 

Man, I remember your attitude before the film came out. Very interesting turn to see from you! I was more cautiously optimistic yet ambivalent: truth be told, had Kasdans not written the screenplay and Powell the score, I probably never would've seen this. Seriously: Ron Howard? A Han Solo prequel movie? What about any of this should work?

 

 Glad we see the film similarly. 

 

 

Subject shift: detachment is not the same as non-attachment, and similarly, control is not the same as extinguishing. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

3 minutes ago, Nick Parker said:

Man, I remember your attitude before the film came out. Very interesting turn to see from you! I was more cautiously optimistic yet ambivalent: truth be told, had Kasdans not written the screenplay and Powell the score, I probably never would've seen this. Seriously: Ron Howard? A Han Solo prequel movie? What about any of this should work?

 

 Glad we see the film similarly. 

 

Yes, something I conceded in my (largely positive) review of the film.

 

On 9/16/2018 at 9:49 PM, Nick1066 said:

Solo: A Star Wars Story

2018

 

I enjoyed this one a lot more than I thought I would. In fact, I enjoyed it immensely. A fantastic theme by Williams with a great score by Powell. Some cool set pieces and great action sequences. The kid (can't remember his name) does a surprisingly good Han Solo and in a few scenes channels Ford nicely. Again, pleasantly surprised.  The supporting characters were all mostly good, even if some were underused. Glover was good in his overhyped portrayal of Lando (even if it doesn't quite match with what Billy dee did with the part). I did find the SJW robot to be a bit annoying, and thought the heist crew did feel a bit much like Guardians of the Galaxy. The guy with all the arms reminded me of that rocket rabbit from Guardians. Not that this is a bad thing.  

 

This movie had more interesting planets, by far, than TLJ.  

 

The film's far from perfect. They should have ditched the scenes with Han as an infantry grunt, which dragged, and instead showed him training as a pilot in the Imperial Navy (perhaps a Top Gun homage with Han buzzing the tower in a TIE fighter). And it does have a bit of a cobbled together feel, and the vague feeling that they didn't quite know what they wanted to do with it (which is unsurprising, given the production history). It did annoy me that we only saw Han the charmer...Solo (particularly the Star Wars 77 Solo) had a rough side, and we didn't see much of that. 

 

Still, a fun, if entirely inconsequential (though aren't they all inconsequential) Star Wars movie that I enjoyed far more than I should have. And one I was wrong about b/c I thought at the time making it was a mistake. I think had it been promoted better, and given a December release date, the film's fortunes might have been different. As it is, I'm disappointed we won't get a sequel.

 

Ron Howard, the king of hollywood mediocrities, was a perfect choice for this (something I'll concede @Stefancos said a while ago). I think Solo is probably his masterpiece.

 

3.5/5

[The Illustrious Jerry 3,356]

1 hour ago, Chen G. said:

That said, I'm not condeming the film's [Solo: A Star Wars Story] actual content: it may be decent film on its own. when I said it was embarassing I was talking commercially.

It was a failure at the box office, not on the screen. That is true.

[Demodex 557]

2 hours ago, Cherry Pie That'll Kill Ya said:

It's a story about the love between a man and a woman. Probably too old fashioned and regrethive for soy latte Millennials.

 

I'm not a Millennial. And I don't drink lattes. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

 

[SteveMc 2,674]

"Stay groovy, my friends."

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Mattris said:

It's the far-left Lucasfilm employees - most of which were hired by KK - that are turning Star Wars to shit as we speak. 

That is a flat-out opinion. You don't agree with certain politics, so you attribute that to ruining an entire franchise. A great deal of Star Wars fans agree with those politics. Besides, politics aren't nearly as obvious in the TLJ as people like you keep saying. Rey is a woman. So what? Holdo is a woman. Big freakin' deal. Finn and Rose save some animals while simultaneously escaping. Good! Canto Bight shows that some rich people are assholes. That's accurate! You're grasping at straws here. If Holdo was the exact same character, but male, I'm sure you wouldn't have cared at all. Same with Rey. That's called sexism.

[Holko 9,529]

Last week when I rewatched TLJ, I didn't notice any politics. Then again, I'm GenZ, so I'm so unsexist and hypertolerant that I don't really notice or care to notice gender like this. Until people brought it up, I never even thought about those in TLJ as male characters and female characters - they're just characters, none rely too much on significantly gender-specific internal or external traits. A reverse example would be Ripley, where her sexual assault and vulnerability is a significant portion of the not-so-subtext of Alien, then motherhood becomes a core part of her character and plotlines in Aliens and Alien3. That's a female character, those in TLJ (and tons of other media) are characters who happen to be female.

[Nick Parker 3,040]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

A reverse example would be Ripley, where her sexual assault and vulnerability is a significant portion of the not-so-subtext of Alien, then motherhood becomes a core part of her character and plotlines in Aliens and Alien3.

 

Brilliantly so!

[Chen G. 3,949]

3 minutes ago, Holko said:

Last week when I rewatched TLJ, I didn't notice any politics.

 

Yeah, its not a film with a political subtext to speak of. But I can see some of the things that @Mattris may have an issue with.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It has a very strong social subtext, more than a political one. 

[Nick1Ø66 4,718]

23 minutes ago, Stefancos said:

It has a very strong social subtext, more than a political one. 

 

Well put.

 

Though it's easy to conflate the two, since the latter is often a result of attitudes about the former.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

33 minutes ago, Holko said:

Until people brought it up, I never even thought about those in TLJ as male characters and female characters - they're just characters, none rely too much on significantly gender-specific internal or external traits.

 

You mean you didn't look at Rey and think "phwoar man, I'd love to run my hands over those sexy abs of hers..."?

[Fabulin 3,514]

.

 

[Mattris 416]

@Arpy, I do plan to respond to your posts.

 

15 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Because she - and I can't stress this enough- MAKES A HELL OF A LOT OF MONEY. That's, ultimately, what being a producer is all about. Your problems (and mine) reside with the directors and screenwriters and perhaps with certain stipulations and caveats that Kennedy may be putting on them.

 

You're right, Solo is downright embarrasing, but as it stands its just one misstep (speaking strictly from a financial standpoint right now). Certainly, not insignificant, but hardly enough to fire a very succesful producer over.

 

 

That usually doesn't at all factor into what I think of films: I judge the art, not the artist and not the artistic process.

 

I'm sure Kathleen Kennedy 'makes a hell of a lot of money' for herself. (Not that that's her goal.) As president of Lucasfilm and executive producer of the films, she spends the money to make content. Many experienced producers could do that, and it would hardly affect the public interest/support one way or the other. What counts is the bottom-line profit. They are still $2.6B in the red, and the film profits are on a substantial decline. She has a habit of firing directors. She allows her employees to insult the fans on Twitter. She is the head of the creative department, and public opinion of the films (and overall direction of Star Wars) is way down. These problems are her fault. This is factual.

 

Solo is one of her "missteps" from a financial standpoint. TLJ's significant box office drop and far fewer Blu-ray sales (compared to TFA) are others. Toy sales and other merchandise? Way less than expected. The stuff rots on shelves and can't even be sold at clearance prices. (It would be safe to say that on of the primary reasons that Toy 'R' Us had to close its stores was due to terrible Star Wars toy sales... which are primarily due to the underwhelming films and characters within.) I highly doubt that park attendance (Disney Land, Disney World, Galaxy's Edge) will benefit from the fans' disenchantment - obviously, the opposite will be the result.

 

If fans had widely praised the films (due to better characters, stories, and overall vision/plan), profits and public sentiment  would have been significantly higher. Only four films in, the fans' perception of Disney Star Wars has fallen dramatically. You can expect Episode 9's box office haul to suffer the consequences of Kathleen Kennedy's inability to give the fans what they want. It's really that simple.

 

13 hours ago, Demodex said:

A lot of the complaints are sexist. One of the female stars was bullied so bad she left social media. When your complaint is that the movie has too many strong female characters, you sound sexist. Just calling it as I see it. 

 

So what?  They're still not as good as TLJ.  The acting and dialogue in AOTC is so hideous I can't watch it. 

The best SW movie wasnt directed by Lucas, thank God. 

 

The more I read other people's comments the more I appreciate TLJ for how awesome it is.  I've been waiting for weeks to have the time to watch it another few times. 

 

The throwing of the lightsaber over his shoulder was perfect. It shows just how disillusioned Luke is. Loved it!

 

Fans are just calling out bad characters and poor character development when they see it. Do you think these people have a problem with Ellen Ripley, Sarah Connor, or Princess Leia? They do not... because these are female characters that are written superbly.

 

Kelly Marie Tran never confirmed that she was "bullied so bad she left social media". Her most recent comments (published in the NYT) centered around her desire to be herself, without fear of consequence. If she is upset with the 'bullies', she seemed to be equally upset at the entertainment industry.

 

8 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

That is a flat-out opinion. You don't agree with certain politics, so you attribute that to ruining an entire franchise. A great deal of Star Wars fans agree with those politics. Besides, politics aren't nearly as obvious in the TLJ as people like you keep saying. Rey is a woman. So what? Holdo is a woman. Big freakin' deal. Finn and Rose save some animals while simultaneously escaping. Good! Canto Bight shows that some rich people are assholes. That's accurate! You're grasping at straws here. If Holdo was the exact same character, but male, I'm sure you wouldn't have cared at all. Same with Rey. That's called sexism.

 

Lucasfilm has be unapologetic about injecting social politics into Star Wars films. This has made a lot of people/fans/customers quite upset. Without the fans' (financial) support, the films will continue to be less profitable. Then, what will be the purpose for them to be made? Strictly for artist expression? That's not what will draw out the fans. So yes, Lucasfilm is on track to 'ruin an entire franchise'.

 

- Rey is a still a Mary Sue... still without any hint of an explanation for her strength with the Force.

- Holdo replaced Admiral Ackbar and Leia as the commanding officer... and was portrayed as an unsympathetic leader and constant thorn in Poe's side. Her plan to retreat to an abandoned, backdoor-less, relatively weaponless, Rebellion base and put a call out for help - sucked. (Was it Leia's plan? Dreadful writing either way.)

- Finn and Rose did not 'save some animals' during their escape. Surely, after their departure, all of the animals - who weren't killed in the escape - were rounded up.

- Canto Bight showed some rich people dressing nice, drinking, gambling, taking baths, and maintaining the rule of law. SJW Rose Tico just "wanted to make them hurt".

 

If Holdo was the exact same character, but male, I'm sure you wouldn't have cared at all. Same with Rey. That's called sexism. You are completely wrong about that. Poor story-telling and characters are gender-neutral. For you to assume that I - and others - are sexist shows just how assuming and ignorant you are.

 

8 hours ago, Holko said:

Last week when I rewatched TLJ, I didn't notice any politics. Then again, I'm GenZ, so I'm so unsexist and hypertolerant that I don't really notice or care to notice gender like this. Until people brought it up, I never even thought about those in TLJ as male characters and female characters - they're just characters, none rely too much on significantly gender-specific internal or external traits.

 

Then you are clearly Kathleen Kennedy's target audience. Many people picked up on the fact that the men in TLJ were obviously portrayed to look weak, stupid, and flawed in relation/comparison to the women in the film. Chen agreed. Can you seriously not recognize this?

[Arpy 4,145]

Yeah, because it's unrealistic for there to be strong women...

 

There's rational justifications for each of the male characters' actions in the film, they're not simply weak to make some feminist point, or through some agenda...

 

 

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

- Rey is a still a Mary Sue... still without any hint of an explanation for her strength with the Force. 

That is specifically a female-targeted sexist term. What would you have called it is she was a male?

 

I also want to point out the fact that Rey is basically just like all of the video game characters from Legends that fans seems to love; overpowered, and able to use the force, often times without any formal training. But they're all male characters, so no one seems to care.

 

There's also one more questions I have for you; you say that your biggest problem with TLJ is "left-leaning social politics". Would you have just as big of a problem if they were right-leaning social politics? To say no would be hypocritical.

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

While I don't remember anything about TLJ except Rey being hot as hell and Laura Dern's hair being cute...I admit, "Ruin Johnson" makes me chuckle. I'm willing to give points for an okay pun.

[Arpy 4,145]

Ruin Johnson haha! Kathleen Killer Kennedy, Gay Gay Abrams...

[Kasey Kockroach 2,344]

Nah, only Ruin Johnson has a funny ring to it. The others are lame.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Back... and to the left.

[Holko 9,529]

4 hours ago, Mattris said:

 

Then you are clearly Kathleen Kennedy's target audience. Many people picked up on the fact that the men in TLJ were obviously portrayed to look weak, stupid, and flawed in relation/comparison to the women in the film. Chen agreed. Can you seriously not recognize this?

 

The men are not "weak, stupid and flawed" because they're men and the women are not not that because they are women. It's because one of these groups dominates the main character list 3 to 1 (Luke, Poe, Finn), and the main characters are the one to be challenged and to grow. Members of the other group mostly belong to support roles to help the main characters in this, but there isn't any specific charadcter trait or plot point where they use their girlpower points or femininity to do so and "seem stronger". Therefore, there's no real narrative reason to make any character male or female, it's more of a casting choice.

[Mattris 416]

On 10/4/2018 at 9:20 PM, Arpy said:

Yeah, because it's unrealistic for there to be strong women...

 

There's rational justifications for each of the male characters' actions in the film, they're not simply weak to make some feminist point, or through some agenda...

 

What makes you believe that I think "it's unrealistic for there to be strong women" in film or specifically, Star Wars movies? I just gave you three examples of females characters that I love.

 

On 10/4/2018 at 9:59 PM, Manakin Skywalker said:

That is specifically a female-targeted sexist term. What would you have called it is she was a male?

 

I also want to point out the fact that Rey is basically just like all of the video game characters from Legends that fans seems to love; overpowered, and able to use the force, often times without any formal training. But they're all male characters, so no one seems to care.

 

There's also one more questions I have for you; you say that your biggest problem with TLJ is "left-leaning social politics". Would you have just as big of a problem if they were right-leaning social politics? To say no would be hypocritical.

 

Ever heard of Gary Stu?

 

I'm not aware of those Legends characters. If you can name them, I'll look into it.

 

My biggest problem with TLJ is not "left-leaning social politics". The film was a sequel to TFA and dropped the ball regarding character development and story-telling. A lot of things happened in the movie, but the overall story did not progress. Even the opening scroll text of TFA is how TLJ ends: Luke Skywalker has vanished.

 

Please define "right-leaning social politics". I'd prefer all on-the-nose social politics to be kept out of Star Wars content - period. I think it's safe to say that most fans want Star Wars to be focused on action, adventure, friends, family, teamwork, and stories of good vs. evil. Grinding the story to a halt - or having a character exist - to make a social statement will only remove the audience from the mentality of escapism and dramatic events in the film.

 

On 10/5/2018 at 1:00 AM, Holko said:

The men are not "weak, stupid and flawed" because they're men and the women are not not that because they are women. It's because one of these groups dominates the main character list 3 to 1 (Luke, Poe, Finn), and the main characters are the one to be challenged and to grow. Members of the other group mostly belong to support roles to help the main characters in this, but there isn't any specific charadcter trait or plot point where they use their girlpower points or femininity to do so and "seem stronger". Therefore, there's no real narrative reason to make any character male or female, it's more of a casting choice.

 

Determining a "main character list" for TLJ is difficult. One could make the case that the film has no main character. But there are certainly many characters go around:

 

The Males

Luke, Finn, Poe, Kylo, Snoke, Hux, DeeJay, Chewie, Yoda

 

The Females

Rey, Leia, Holdo, Rose, Phasma, Maz

 

While no gender 'dominates' the screen time, the female characters dominate the film... with Kylo killing Snoke and Luke's 'appearance' the notable exceptions. As for the characters 'challenged to grow', four are men (the first 4 in my list); Rey is the only female. The audience certainly wanted to root for Rey. But for almost the entire film, she seems confused - albeit determined and strong through adversity.

 

It is not a coincidence that all men in the film are "weak, stupid and flawed". They were very intentionally - and very lazily - written that way so that the women could dominate during all of primary story-lines.

 

... there isn't any specific character trait or plot point where they use their girl power points or femininity to do so and "seem stronger".  Correct. It's as simple as this: All women in the film are strong and/or in charge. Captain Phasma was in charge... but as quickly as she appeared again, she died again.

 

Therefore, there's no real narrative reason to make any character male or female, it's more of a casting choice. I disagree. It's obvious that Holdo and Rose were specifically written to be 'strong female characters'. Kathleen Kennedy even said to Rian Johnson (on stage, in front of a large crowd) : "Rian writes women beautifully." This implies that having women in the film was a desire and focus. But what narrative purpose did Holdo and Rose fulfill? Wouldn't the film have been much more cohesive without them?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

These are issues that the film needed to discuss...

[Chen G. 3,949]

8 hours ago, Mattris said:

They are still $2.6B in the red,

 

Can you confirm this? The film industry tends to be very secretive about its numbers. I don't necesarily question that they're still in the red, just need evidence, is all.

 

8 hours ago, Mattris said:

Solo is one of her "missteps" from a financial standpoint. TLJ's significant box office drop and far fewer Blu-ray sales (compared to TFA) are others.

 

Also true. But the film still made a helluva lot of money.

 

8 hours ago, Mattris said:

 Rey is a still a Mary Sue... still without any hint of an explanation for her strength with the Force?

 

Well, technically Rian Johnson kind of explained it: "I told my apprentice", Snoke says, "that as he grew stronger, his equal in the light would rise." You can see it as somewhat of a backhanded excuse. If I really had to think about it I probably would, but I don't care enough to do so.

 

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

I think it's safe to say that most fans want Star Wars to be focused on action, adventure, friends, family, teamwork, and stories of good vs. evil. Grinding the story to a halt - or having a character exist - to make a social statement will only remove the audience from the mentality of escapism and dramatic events in the film.

 

That's a good point, actually. Star Wars' timelessness as a narrative is derived from the simplicity of the conflict at its heart: good versus evil. Introducing timely social commentary just doesn't mix well with that. The series can evolve, filmmakers can take chances with it, but it can never eschew its genre or its core themes. That's what makes it Star Wars.

[publicist 4,643]

Just when you thought a thread could not get more pathetic...

[Mattris 416]

... publicist shows up again and contributes nothing to the conversation.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

2 hours ago, publicist said:

Just when you thought a thread could not get more pathetic...

 

At one point this will just become like performance art though. A commentary on the limits of discussion on an online medium.

[mstrox 6,651]

I just realized something.......this thread sucks ass!