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The John Williams Expanded Score Master Spreadsheet

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This is just anal minutiae/semantics, but has MM, MV or someone with their status, abilities and knowledge confirmed definitely and indisputably that Jane Eyre was lost? If they have, the colour should be red, if not, maybe the wording should be "Session tapes believed to be lost to time" - you know how it went with Dracula!

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3 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

Well there's the very useful "Scores Expanded By Studio" thread that already exists.

 

Well, can't hurt having a chronological equivalent! :)

 

1 minute ago, Disco Stu said:

I don't know if "baseless hunch" really translates to "most likely" 2021 for the Indy scores.

 

Sour puss! Let a man live in hope!

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32 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Am I wrong in considering the Star Wars Special Edition soundtracks to be complete scores?  

 

None of the three are complete.

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19 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

None of the three are complete.

 

They are to me.  There's no music in the films that's not there. 

 

I feel the same about the TPM:UE, but that's like a sin here. 

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For Empire, the film features a revised ending to 5M3 Yoda’s Entrance that isn't on the set, and the takes used for the Imperial March that's tracked into where Aboard The Executor was supposed to go are different from the concert arrangement track.

 

For Jedi, there's the additional Jabba source music, the Forest Battle insert, the original Ewok ending, and also the Ewok source music was faded out early on the sets.

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8 minutes ago, Demodex said:

I don't know what music those sets are missing. They even have music that's not in the film. 

 

Per Wikipedia, for Jedi.

 

Unreleased cues[edit]

Currently, several source cues and other material are unavailable. Many of these master tapes could not be located in time for the score's special edition release and are presumed lost. These tracks include:

  1. Jabba the Hutt's Concert Suite - All but the final portion of this original recording, incorrectly edited onto the end of the cue "Han Solo Returns" on the Anthology, remains unreleased. (This same portion is heard on the Return of the Jedi DVD menu as well).
  2. Film Version of Lapti Nek (Original Source) - Several versions of this source cue written by John Williams' son Joseph are available. Currently available are the album version on the Anthology and an extended album version and an instrumental track released on an LP single. However, the film version has yet to be released.
  3. English Version of Lapti Nek (Sung by Joseph Williams) - This cue can be heard partially in From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga, but remains either lost or simply unreleased.
  4. Max Rebo Band Song (Sail Barge Dance) --Source Cue - This piece, performed by the resident musicians in Jabba's court (The Max Rebo Band) has never been released. It is heard after Chewbacca is taken away and also on Jabba's sail barge (hence its title). This cue can also be heard almost totally complete in From Star Wars to Jedi: The Making of a Saga, but remains unreleased.
  5. Unknown Source Cue - this cue is not used in the film but is credited to Joseph Williams. Nothing more is known.
  6. Alternate Film Takes - Several cues such as "Superstructure Chase" are presented on the SE using incorrect and often flubbed takes.
  7. Battle For Endor Insert - This insert can be heard in the film when Chewbacca and the Ewoks use the AT-ST to blow up another AT-ST and is similar to a section from "The Forest Battle Concert Suite" but has never been released.
  8. Ewok Celebration (Film Version) - Two versions of this cue have been released, however, neither preserves the actual original recording used in the film.

 

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Me neither.  Honestly, the content of the Jedi SE is good enough for me (although the sound leaves something to be desired).

 

A good handful of the film versions and a completely unreleased insert are currently unavailable, so that's enough that I'd technically call it "incomplete" at least.

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Plus the concert suite of Jabba's theme was missing/lost when they scanned the SEs and seemingly that hasn't changed (spectograms revealed the excerpt of Jabba's suite on the new 2018 Disney releases was almost identical to the 2016 Sony vinyl releases, which were sourced from the OST masters).

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1 minute ago, crumbs said:

which were sourced from the OST masters

which we found out were identical to the original film masters, so... we don't know anything.

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7 hours ago, crumbs said:

Midway

2011 (Varese)

It's complete.

 

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

Heartbeeps

1981 OST

Incomplete

Is it really incomplete? How do you know?

 

7 hours ago, crumbs said:

Witches of Eastwick

1987 OST (Reissued)

Need to wait for Prometheus to sell out

It's Perseverance, not Prometheus.

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Wait, what? When did that happen? They said all along the 2016 releases were sourced from brand new scans of the OST masters.

 

3 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

It's complete.

 

Is it really incomplete? How do you know?

 

It's Perseverance, not Prometheus.

 

Thanks, updated.

 

And no idea about Heartbeeps. It could very well be complete based on that tracklist, just wasn't sure.

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8 hours ago, Holko said:

This is just anal minutiae/semantics, but has MM, MV or someone with their status, abilities and knowledge confirmed definitely and indisputably that Jane Eyre was lost? If they have, the colour should be red, if not, maybe the wording should be "Session tapes believed to be lost to time" - you know how it went with Dracula!

 jane eyre is at the very bottom of the Dracula crate .MM stopped looking when he found the stereo Dracula masters beneath the mono ones

 

I made a thread like this a week ago.

 

Just add how many minutes of unreleased music in the unexpanded scores

oh and I consider TLJ complete

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crumbs, Heartbeeps never had an OST in 1981.  The only release is Varese's "expansion" from 2001, which (as far as anybody knows) is complete.

 

Also, for some reason you put (reissued) after the OSTs for, Monsignor, SpaceCamp, Witches of Eastwick and Accidental Tourist, but not Images or Cinderella Liberty.

 

Though Images wasn't an OST, really, it also never had one.  It was an Academy Promo LP that Prometheus used for their CD.

 

Also the Jane Eyre entry notes that the OST reissue was by LLL, but the SpaceCamp entry doesn't note its OST reissue was by Intrada, the Witches of Eastwick entry doesn't note that its OST reissie was by Perseverance, and the Accidental Tourist entry doesn't note its OST reissue was by FSM.

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28 minutes ago, Jay said:

crumbs, Heartbeeps never had an OST in 1981.  The only release is Varese's "expansion" from 2001, which (as far as anybody knows) is complete.

 

Also, for some reason you put (reissued) after the OSTs for, Monsignor, SpaceCamp, Witches of Eastwick and Accidental Tourist, but not Images or Cinderella Liberty.

 

Though Images wasn't an OST, really, it also never had one.  It was an Academy Promo LP that Prometheus used for their CD.

 

Also the Jane Eyre entry notes that the OST reissue was by LLL, but the SpaceCamp entry doesn't note its OST reissue was by Intrada, the Witches of Eastwick entry doesn't note that its OST reissie was by Perseverance, and the Accidental Tourist entry doesn't note its OST reissue was by FSM.

 

This is great, thanks Jay. I'll update these when I'm home from work. That's interesting about Images! Didn't know that. 

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1 hour ago, Brundlefly said:

You should note how many minutes are missing from WotW and MR although there is a session leak.

 

Yes I've been meaning to do that, just haven't had time. It's about 30-40 minutes from both scores I think, more for WOTW with those Boston alternates.

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8 hours ago, Kendal_Ozzel said:

I feel like I should do an analysis of Always out of pure sympathy.

 

Please do, especially if you track down the bootleg of the sessions.

 

The OST is short so it wouldn't be too much of a chore.

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40 minutes ago, Miguel Andrade said:

I believe the actual sessions tapes for Images are missing, hence the use of the 1972 Academy Promo for the Prometheus release.

Also, The Long Goodbye isn't complete.

 

Really? Quartet's press release described it as such, which is why I labelled it that way:

 

Quote

Long-awaited reissue of Quartet Records complete release of John Williams’s cult score for The Long Goodbye, directed by Robert Altman in 1973 and inspired by the Raymond Chandler novel.

 

http://www.quartetrecords.com/the-long-goodbye.html

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Quote

Some years ago part of the score (about 23 minutes) was released by Varèse Sarabande in a limited edition CD that quickly sold out. To assemble this album we had to do some detective work, but that has been possible thanks to the efforts of MGM. In their vaults they found (in addition to the tape containing the versions included in the previous Varèse edition), two tapes containing new versions: an alternate of Dave Grusin, a jazz piano version featuring Williams himself, and some takes from the underscore. To complete the underscore assembly we used two different 35 mm. magnetic music stems in mono with acceptable sound quality. Finally, a trio of bonus tracks (found on the tapes) concludes the album: a fascinating and fun vocal in which singer Clydie King ad-libs while getting her voice into the song’s vibe, a rehearsal of the beach house party chorus with Jack Riley and Clydie King singing with the crowd, and a rehearsal of the solo violin for “Tango Version.”

 

So here, finally, is the original concept of John Williams for The Long Goodbye, as conceived by Robert Altman. Because of the many repetitions of the tune and the different sources from which the cues are drawn, this album is not presented in film order, but arranged for pleasant home listening.

 

It sounds like they included everything they could find. Having never seen the film though, I guess the score could be another case of lost elements?

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23 hours ago, Holko said:

This is just anal minutiae/semantics, but has MM, MV or someone with their status, abilities and knowledge confirmed definitely and indisputably that Jane Eyre was lost? If they have, the colour should be red, if not, maybe the wording should be "Session tapes believed to be lost to time" - you know how it went with Dracula!

 

They probably only have the mono tapes...

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10 hours ago, crumbs said:

 

It sounds like they included everything they could find. Having never seen the film though, I guess the score could be another case of lost elements?

 

Including everything they could find does not equals complete. There are at least three versions not included on the CD (though two of them show up briefly on the poorly edited opening sequence). It's great that they were even able to get some material that didn't made the film, but to say it's a complete release ins't accurate. Also, the Blu-Ray score+sfx track carries a much brighter audio than the one on the CD. Being a great fan of book, film and score, I don't find this to be a definitive presentation, though I can understand it might be the only possible one.

 

As for The Reivers, I only watched the film once, but I believe there is some music missing on the LP/CD releases.

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It's hard to be definitive though because his earlier scores probably have lost elements that people don't know if they still exist (nor where they are) or if they've entirely perished. 

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12 minutes ago, Brundlefly said:

Definitive means "not possible to be improved", so it is definitive.

 

The edit they presented for the opening sequence can surely be improved, in the sense that it can be made to sound closer to the one actually used on the film. Also, if they had the elements to do that, they could very well have included the "Car Radio" version of the song and the musak convenience store instrumental version.

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