Bespin 8,482 Posted January 4, 2021 Share Posted January 4, 2021 I also love his published Suites from HP 2 & 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 I've been listening to the HP2 sessions (nostalgia) and keep discovering things in this score! 1. In the track Magical Household And Letters From Hogwarts, 1:28-1:40 sounds a bit like 3:41-3:47 from From Mermaids to Lost Boys (LLL). 2. The flutes near the end of Polyjuice Potion play exactly the same notes as the horns near the end of The Friendly Reptile. How did I never notice this before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 On 1/4/2021 at 12:03 PM, Bespin said: I also love his published Suites from HP 2 & 3. When I played this CoS suite, it had Harry's Wondrous World as the fifth movement Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 23 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: 1. In the track Magical Household And Letters From Hogwarts, 1:28-1:40 sounds a bit like 3:41-3:47 from From Mermaids to Lost Boys (LLL). Did you type the wrong timestamps? Those 2 passages aren't similar to each other at all. At least going by the youtube videos I found There is of course plenty of Hook temp track love in COS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 Yes, the timestamps were correct. I mean, obviously the mood and instruments are completely different, but the idea sounds the same to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 Maybe the youtube videos were messed up. For the COS track is that the timestamp of the LLL edition or the session leak file? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 45 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: I've been listening to the HP2 sessions Probably the sessions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 2 minutes ago, Jay said: Maybe the youtube videos were messed up. For the COS track is that the timestamp of the LLL edition or the session leak file? LLL, sorry. Should have included that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted January 5, 2021 Author Share Posted January 5, 2021 Ah, I hear what you're saying now bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,482 Posted January 5, 2021 Share Posted January 5, 2021 1 hour ago, blondheim said: When I played this CoS suite, it had Harry's Wondrous World as the fifth movement It's a cue from the first movie, even if it has a new development in CoS. But my little finger tells me the new part is maybe not by Williams alone... Has the CoS version of Wondrous World already been published? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted March 1, 2021 Share Posted March 1, 2021 Thanks for the tip, @Chewy; for Chamber of Secrets: Christmas Break(short version) doesn't just seem to be an edit - the openings and endings phase, the middle doesn't. Could it be that 29.5-41.7s of (short version) is a new insert meant to bridge the opening and ending of the original long take better than an edit could? Chewy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted March 1, 2021 Author Share Posted March 1, 2021 They only recorded that cue at one session, there wasn't any later inserts. So I'd say any differences between them are via using different portions of different takes (on top of editing it down for theatrical cut too) Maybe some portions of the theatrical edit actually contain music tracked in from another HP2 cue (or the HP1 Christmas cue)? I have no idea, I never investigated. On the LLL CD, the theatrical edit is taken straight from the music editor's archive created in 2002, while the long version was built fresh by Mike from having access to every take of the cue recorded. I know he started with the goal of using the same takes and edit points as what was used in the extended cut of the film released to home video, but I can't remember if he ended up deciding to replace some sections with a better performance than what they chose for that or if he stuck precisely to the extended cut's takes and edit points. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Henry Sítrónu 494 Posted March 17, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted March 17, 2021 I've just listened to PoA's „Remembering Mother“ (3m10) and checked the score, realizing John Williams wrote two versions for this cue. In fact, the track on the LLL-release and used in the film is labeled „alternate“ in the score. I wonder if the „first“ version has been recorded. @Jay? I'm not an expert with mockups but I created one using Sibelius 7 First. Enjoy! 2004_PoA_3M10alt.mp3 crumbs, Chewy and CGCJ 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted March 18, 2021 Author Share Posted March 18, 2021 I have no idea if it was recorded or not bollemanneke, Henry Sítrónu and Chewy 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post bollemanneke 3,348 Posted April 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2021 Completely pointless post. I finished watching HP2 and just wanted to repeat how awesome these scores are. Now, more than ever, I'm wondering what a POA score for Columbus would have sounded like. It's so sad all the thematic development stops here. Haralampos, Once and redishere 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Datameister 2,043 Posted April 4, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted April 4, 2021 7 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Completely pointless post. I finished watching HP2 and just wanted to repeat how awesome these scores are. Now, more than ever, I'm wondering what a POA score for Columbus would have sounded like. It's so sad all the thematic development stops here. It is sad to miss out on further development of most of the pre-existing themes, but boy, do I like what we got instead! It's like TLW. I would have loved to have heard a sequel score that really built off of the first one's ideas, but I can hardly be mad about the new direction he did take. Incidentally, for anyone here who enjoys the films' production design, I've been working on a 3D model that explores the changing designs of Hogwarts. Feel free to check out my blog if you're interested: https://hogwarts4d.home.blog Haralampos, Once, Edmilson and 5 others 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 Wow, total new discovery! During the post-credit scene with Lockhart, you can hear the Diagon Alley cue from the Children's Suite in the background! 134th rewatch justified! Datameister, Molly Weasley and Holko 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,454 Posted April 4, 2021 Share Posted April 4, 2021 On 1/5/2021 at 3:17 PM, Jay said: There is of course plenty of Hook temp track love in COS Do you have some examples of Hook-inspired music on Chamber of Secrets? I only know the more famous bits, like Lockhart's theme sounding like No Ticket from Indy 3 and, of course, the quidditch, but I don't remember hearing Hook bits on COS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 12 hours ago, bollemanneke said: It's so sad all the thematic development stops here. We know Cuaron wanted something different which leads me to believe that if Williams had stayed on for all eight films, the themes introduced along the way would entirely be at the discretion of whichever filmmaker was onboard and whether Williams felt they were appropriate for the films. Williams did all nine Star Wars films and wasn't entirely consistent with when themes are introduced or if they'd ever return again... TSMefford and bollemanneke 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 I'm in the middle of watching HP3 and just wanted to point this out: it has been mentioned before that the Befriending the Hippogriff cue on the LLL uses a different harpsichord motif than the film does, but when I watched that scene, it sounded more like someone randomly and repeatedly pasted that harpsichord material over the original cue. So I'm wondering if that harsichord thing was recorded separately. It sounds more like Mike got the untouched version before someone went crazy with a small pick-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 Yes the cue was originally conceived, and recorded, without that harpsichord part; That was mixed in later bollemanneke and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 5, 2021 Author Share Posted April 5, 2021 15 hours ago, Edmilson said: Do you have some examples of Hook-inspired music on Chamber of Secrets? The opening of Magical Household is the same as the opening of Smee's Plan (slowed way down) The opening of The Dueling Club is the same as the opening of Hook Lessons There's another one somewhere that isn't coming to mind at the moment.... Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted April 5, 2021 Share Posted April 5, 2021 1 hour ago, Jay said: The opening of The Dueling Club is the same as the opening of Hook Lessons Kinda similar to No Ticket too. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Question: Is it weird that GEMA would contain the REMEMBERING MOTHER ALTERNATE in its database if that cue was never recorded? Alternative explanation is that all sheet music is submitted and copyrighted regardless of whether it was recorded or not, but that's a lot of publishers for unrecorded sheet music. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 16 minutes ago, crumbs said: Question: Is it weird that GEMA would contain the REMEMBERING MOTHER ALTERNATE in its database if that cue was never recorded? Alternative explanation is that all sheet music is submitted and copyrighted regardless of whether it was recorded or not, but that's a lot of publishers for unrecorded sheet music. The Alternate is the film version IIRC. crumbs and TSMefford 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Good point!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Yea, Remembering Mother Alternate is the name of the cue used in the film, OST, and LLL. It's the original Remembering Mother that uses the rejected past theme and that we have no idea if it was ever recorded or not. This should all be in the google doc, including links to mockups TSMefford 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Yeah, that's something I don't really understand: why would they record aan alternate and not the original? What I mean is, if the original was never recorded/discarded , why bother calling the other one alternate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Also, why ALTERNATE instead of REVISED or V2, if it was intended to replace the other version? It is curious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Yea, it is weird I suspect all the music we can see in the leaked sheets was recorded since they were fully orchestrated, but who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Faleel 5,348 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 5 hours ago, crumbs said: Also, why ALTERNATE instead of REVISED or V2, if it was intended to replace the other version? It is curious. Probably because it was an alternative idea, sort of "Here is another idea you could have me use if you want" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Yea, sounds about right Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 41 minutes ago, Falco said: Probably because it was an alternative idea, sort of "Here is another idea you could have me use if you want" Sure, but wouldn't Williams present Cuaron with both options so he could choose? I'd really love to know which cue had the first written instance of the Window to the Past theme. I get the feeling it was only intended as a one-off fragment in some random cue, then either Williams or Cuaron got the idea to flesh it out across the whole score (hence all the revisions). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Hmm that's a great question. Probably Remembering Mother Alternate was the first one that used it, as the 2 other big instances are 4M3-4NN Woods Walk and Birds Flight and 4M14N The Dementor with the N in their numbers indicating they were revisions (or a revision on a revision in the case of 4M3-4. It also appears in 1M5 and the end credits, but he might have never written those until the new past theme was decided on. But who knows! I wish they put dates on the top of the sheet music crumbs and bollemanneke 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 5 minutes ago, Jay said: But who knows! I wish they put dates on the top of the sheet music I think I've asked this already but JW doesn't date his sketches, does he? And I remember reading Woods Walk was a revision but what would that cue even be without WTTP? It comprises almost the entire cue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Nope, I've never seen a date on a JW sketch Oh man, you're behind the times on the Woods Walk stuff; Check out all the mockups linked to in the "Complete Cue List" tab of my doc https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1R7JM5QmRNh6PbgqeBH_lbj2C3WLbzxz9px3Z7GKLaAk/ AlejandroGO 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 14,316 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 19 minutes ago, Jay said: Oh man, you're behind the times on the Woods Walk stuff; Check out all the mockups linked to in the "Complete Cue List" tab of my doc Didn't realise all those mockups were there! Nice! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 5 hours ago, Jay said: Yea, it is weird I suspect all the music we can see in the leaked sheets was recorded since they were fully orchestrated, but who knows I still have a hard time believing that. The sheet music version of New Woods Walk and Birds Flight sounds so terribly aimless at times that it sounds more like a stream of conciousnesss kind of compostion, JW just writing and seeing where things could go, but hardly a finished cue. Also, I just can't believe that two separate sources would fail to provide Mike with all these numerous cues and/or a record of what was recorded and what wasn't. Oh, and I just realised, why is that cue called New anyway? Was there ever an Old one? Or is Enter Winter the old one? In that case, yet again a really weird naming system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Also, I just can't believe that two separate sources would fail to provide Mike with all these numerous cues Well, they failed to provide some stuff that are in the film/on the OST, too. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 In the film as well, though? I think Jason implied in his spreadsheet that that percussion backing thing and the slower Cadogan version was found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 14 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: I think Jason implied in his spreadsheet that that percussion backing thing and the slower Cadogan version was found. Hmm. Still nothing concrete, sure as hell isn't on the set. And we could count stuff like the film harpsichord in Befriending the Hippogriff or the additional female choir at the end of Apparition on the Train (might be the sound team using libraries, still could've fit after the alternate if that trailer thing had a place on the set) if we want to get nitpicky. Typo check, @Jay: Azkaban spreadsheet, Complete Cue List page, H36: "Scene completely deleted from final cut", not final cue, I assume. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 We really need a book by MM on this set. Smeltington and Chewy 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 21 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: I still have a hard time believing that. The sheet music version of New Woods Walk and Birds Flight sounds so terribly aimless at times that it sounds more like a stream of conciousnesss kind of compostion, JW just writing and seeing where things could go, but hardly a finished cue. Yea, maybe that one wasn't recorded. Who knows! 21 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Also, I just can't believe that two separate sources would fail to provide Mike with all these numerous cues and/or a record of what was recorded and what wasn't. Welcome to Warner Brothers! 21 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Oh, and I just realised, why is that cue called New anyway? Was there ever an Old one? Or is Enter Winter the old one? In that case, yet again a really weird naming system. It's all in the Google Doc. We know about 3 versions: 4M3+4 Enter Winter = a mockup is linked to in the google doc 4M3+4 New Woods Walk and Birds Flight = a mockup is linked to in the google doc 4M3-4NN Woods Walk and Birds Flight = the version in the film and on the LLL 18 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: In the film as well, though? I think Jason implied in his spreadsheet that that percussion backing thing and the slower Cadogan version was found. No, they weren't provided - if they were, we would have put that version in the main program and squeezed the album version into the bonus track area 13 minutes ago, Holko said: Hmm. Still nothing concrete, sure as hell isn't on the set. And we could count stuff like the film harpsichord in Befriending the Hippogriff or the additional female choir at the end of Apparition on the Train (might be the sound team using libraries, still could've fit after the alternate if that trailer thing had a place on the set) if we want to get nitpicky. I thought we knew where that female choir was tracked in from? I can't remember now. I wish WB had been able to provide a music stem of the film so we'd know definitively what was JW and what was the sound guys! 13 minutes ago, Holko said: Typo check, @Jay: Azkaban spreadsheet, Complete Cue List page, H36: "Scene completely deleted from final cut", not final cue, I assume. Fixed Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, Jay said: 4M3+4 Enter Winter = a mockup is linked to in the google doc 4M3+4 New Woods Walk and Birds Flight = a mockup is linked to in the google doc So the key distinction is that "New" belongs to the cue number, not the title. "4m3+4 New", not "New Woods Walk". (Just not sure how well Bolle's stuff handles spaces) bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Yea in the google doc the "4M3+4 New" is even in a different cell than the "Woods Walk and Birds Flight" Basically there was "4M3+4", then "4M3+4 New", then "4M3+4 New New" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bollemanneke 3,348 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Wiat, but surely WB would have been able to provide a film stem? Even the Art of the Score podcast guys got that. Or do you mean music and more documentation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 1 minute ago, bollemanneke said: Wiat, but surely WB would have been able to provide a film stem? Even the Art of the Score podcast guys got that. I guess they value LtP concerts over actual releases of the actual music. More money. Bastards. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Wiat, but surely WB would have been able to provide a film stem? Even the Art of the Score podcast guys got that. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ we didn't have it when putting together the set. I don't have a clue how those podcast guys got that clean music, but I would guess it was given to them by someone who worked on the live to projection concerts 3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said: Or do you mean music and more documentation? I don't know what that is Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted April 8, 2021 Share Posted April 8, 2021 Just now, Jay said: but I assumed it was a file given to them by someone who works on the live concerts One of them regularly conducts such concerts so no need for a middleman. bollemanneke 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,364 Posted April 8, 2021 Author Share Posted April 8, 2021 Well there you go Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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