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Harry Potter 7CD Collection - MUSIC discussion


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The whole thing is still surreal to me, that I would even be asked to work on something so large and important!  The whole thing came together extremely quickly (especially for 7 discs / 8 hours of mu

This set is the best album I have ever bought. It’s still unreal to me that all of my favourite music from my childhood is newly remastered and released. I’ve been looking forward to discussing every

Williams wrote that music for the deleted Sir Cadogan scene.  The cue was then tracked into two different spots in the final cut, one of which was artificially slowed down.   The little 10 s

I've been listening to the HP2 sessions (nostalgia) and keep discovering things in this score!

1. In the track Magical Household And Letters From Hogwarts, 1:28-1:40 sounds a bit like 3:41-3:47 from From Mermaids to Lost Boys (LLL).

2. The flutes near the end of Polyjuice Potion play exactly the same notes as the horns near the end of The Friendly Reptile. How did I never notice this before?

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23 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

1. In the track Magical Household And Letters From Hogwarts, 1:28-1:40 sounds a bit like 3:41-3:47 from From Mermaids to Lost Boys (LLL).

 

Did you type the wrong timestamps?  Those 2 passages aren't similar to each other at all.  At least going by the youtube videos I found

 

There is of course plenty of Hook temp track love in COS

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, blondheim said:

 

When I played this CoS suite, it had Harry's Wondrous World as the fifth movement

 

It's a cue from the first movie, even if it has a new development in CoS.

 

But my little finger tells me the new part is maybe not by Williams alone...

 

Has the CoS version of Wondrous World already been published?

 

image.png

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  • 1 month later...

Thanks for the tip, @Chewy; for Chamber of Secrets: Christmas Break(short version) doesn't just seem to be an edit - the openings and endings phase, the middle doesn't. Could it be that 29.5-41.7s of (short version) is a new insert meant to bridge the opening and ending of the original long take better than an edit could?

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They only recorded that cue at one session, there wasn't any later inserts.  So I'd say any differences between them are via using different portions of different takes (on top of editing it down for theatrical cut too)

 

Maybe some portions of the theatrical edit actually contain music tracked in from another HP2 cue (or the HP1 Christmas cue)? I have no idea, I never investigated. 

 

On the LLL CD, the theatrical edit is taken straight from the music editor's archive created in 2002, while the long version was built fresh by Mike from having access to every take of the cue recorded.  I know he started with the goal of using the same takes and edit points as what was used in the extended cut of the film released to home video, but I can't remember if he ended up deciding to replace some sections with a better performance than what they chose for that or if he stuck precisely to the extended cut's takes and edit points.

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 3 weeks later...
On 1/5/2021 at 3:17 PM, Jay said:

There is of course plenty of Hook temp track love in COS

 

 

Do you have some examples of Hook-inspired music on Chamber of Secrets?

 

I only know the more famous bits, like Lockhart's theme sounding like No Ticket from Indy 3 and, of course, the quidditch, but I don't remember hearing Hook bits on COS.

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12 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

 It's so sad all the thematic development stops here.

We know Cuaron wanted something different which leads me to believe that if Williams had stayed on for all eight films, the themes introduced along the way would entirely be at the discretion of whichever filmmaker was onboard and whether Williams felt they were appropriate for the films. Williams did all nine Star Wars films and wasn't entirely consistent with when themes are introduced or if they'd ever return again...

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I'm in the middle of watching HP3 and just wanted to point this out: it has been mentioned before that the Befriending the Hippogriff cue on the LLL uses a different harpsichord motif than the film does, but when I watched that scene, it sounded more like someone randomly and repeatedly pasted that harpsichord material over the original cue. So I'm wondering if that harsichord thing was recorded separately. It sounds more like Mike got the untouched version before someone went crazy with a small pick-up.

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15 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Do you have some examples of Hook-inspired music on Chamber of Secrets?

 

The opening of Magical Household is the same as the opening of Smee's Plan (slowed way down)

The opening of The Dueling Club is the same as the opening of Hook Lessons

 

There's another one somewhere that isn't coming to mind at the moment....

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Question: Is it weird that GEMA would contain the REMEMBERING MOTHER ALTERNATE in its database if that cue was never recorded?

 

image.png

 

Alternative explanation is that all sheet music is submitted and copyrighted regardless of whether it was recorded or not, but that's a lot of publishers for unrecorded sheet music.

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16 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Question: Is it weird that GEMA would contain the REMEMBERING MOTHER ALTERNATE in its database if that cue was never recorded?

 

image.png

 

Alternative explanation is that all sheet music is submitted and copyrighted regardless of whether it was recorded or not, but that's a lot of publishers for unrecorded sheet music.

The Alternate is the film version IIRC.

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Yea, Remembering Mother Alternate is the name of the cue used in the film, OST, and LLL. It's the original Remembering Mother that uses the rejected past theme and that we have no idea if it was ever recorded or not. 

 

This should all be in the google doc, including links to mockups

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Yeah, that's something I don't really understand: why would they record aan alternate and not the original? What I mean is, if the original was never recorded/discarded , why bother calling the other one alternate?

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Yea, it is weird

 

I suspect all the music we can see in the leaked sheets was recorded since they were fully orchestrated, but who knows

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5 hours ago, crumbs said:

Also, why ALTERNATE instead of REVISED or V2, if it was intended to replace the other version? It is curious. 

Probably because it was an alternative idea, sort of "Here is another idea you could have me use if you want"

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41 minutes ago, Falco said:

Probably because it was an alternative idea, sort of "Here is another idea you could have me use if you want"

 

Sure, but wouldn't Williams present Cuaron with both options so he could choose?

 

I'd really love to know which cue had the first written instance of the Window to the Past theme. I get the feeling it was only intended as a one-off fragment in some random cue, then either Williams or Cuaron got the idea to flesh it out across the whole score (hence all the revisions).

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Hmm that's a great question.  Probably Remembering Mother Alternate was the first one that used it, as the 2 other big instances are 4M3-4NN Woods Walk and Birds Flight and 4M14N The Dementor with the N in their numbers indicating they were revisions (or a revision on a revision in the case of 4M3-4.  It also appears in 1M5 and the end credits, but he might have never written those until the new past theme was decided on.

 

But who knows!  I wish they put dates on the top of the sheet music :(

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5 minutes ago, Jay said:

But who knows!  I wish they put dates on the top of the sheet music :(

 

I think I've asked this already but JW doesn't date his sketches, does he?

 

And I remember reading Woods Walk was a revision but what would that cue even be without WTTP? It comprises almost the entire cue :unsure:

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19 minutes ago, Jay said:

Oh man, you're behind the times on the Woods Walk stuff; Check out all the mockups linked to in the "Complete Cue List" tab of my doc

 

Didn't realise all those mockups were there! Nice!

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5 hours ago, Jay said:

Yea, it is weird

 

I suspect all the music we can see in the leaked sheets was recorded since they were fully orchestrated, but who knows

I still have a hard time believing that. The sheet music version of New Woods Walk and Birds Flight sounds so terribly aimless at times that it sounds more like a stream of conciousnesss kind of compostion, JW just writing and seeing where things could go, but hardly a finished cue. Also, I just can't believe that two separate sources would fail to provide Mike with all these numerous cues and/or a record of what was recorded and what wasn't.

 

Oh, and I just realised, why is that cue called New anyway? Was there ever an Old one? Or is Enter Winter the old one? In that case, yet again a really weird naming system.

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3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Also, I just can't believe that two separate sources would fail to provide Mike with all these numerous cues

Well, they failed to provide some stuff that are in the film/on the OST, too.

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14 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I think Jason implied in his spreadsheet that that percussion backing thing and the slower Cadogan version was found.

Hmm. Still nothing concrete, sure as hell isn't on the set. And we could count stuff like the film harpsichord in Befriending the Hippogriff or the additional female choir at the end of Apparition on the Train (might be the sound team using libraries, still could've fit after the alternate if that trailer thing had a place on the set) if we want to get nitpicky.

 

Typo check, @Jay: Azkaban spreadsheet, Complete Cue List page, H36: "Scene completely deleted from final cut", not final cue, I assume.

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21 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I still have a hard time believing that. The sheet music version of New Woods Walk and Birds Flight sounds so terribly aimless at times that it sounds more like a stream of conciousnesss kind of compostion, JW just writing and seeing where things could go, but hardly a finished cue.

 

Yea, maybe that one wasn't recorded.  Who knows!

 

21 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Also, I just can't believe that two separate sources would fail to provide Mike with all these numerous cues and/or a record of what was recorded and what wasn't.

 

Welcome to Warner Brothers!

 

21 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Oh, and I just realised, why is that cue called New anyway? Was there ever an Old one? Or is Enter Winter the old one? In that case, yet again a really weird naming system.

 

It's all in the Google Doc.  We know about 3 versions:

  1. 4M3+4    Enter Winter = a mockup is linked to in the google doc
  2. 4M3+4 New    Woods Walk and Birds Flight = a mockup is linked to in the google doc
  3. 4M3-4NN    Woods Walk and Birds Flight = the version in the film and on the LLL
18 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

In the film as well, though? I think Jason implied in his spreadsheet that that percussion backing thing and the slower Cadogan version was found.

 

No, they weren't provided - if they were, we would have put that version in the main program and squeezed the album version into the bonus track area

13 minutes ago, Holko said:

Hmm. Still nothing concrete, sure as hell isn't on the set. And we could count stuff like the film harpsichord in Befriending the Hippogriff or the additional female choir at the end of Apparition on the Train (might be the sound team using libraries, still could've fit after the alternate if that trailer thing had a place on

the set) if we want to get nitpicky.

 

I thought we knew where that female choir was tracked in from? I can't remember now.  I wish WB had been able to provide a music stem of the film so we'd know definitively what was JW and what was the sound guys!

 

 

13 minutes ago, Holko said:

Typo check, @Jay: Azkaban spreadsheet, Complete Cue List page, H36: "Scene completely deleted from final cut", not final cue, I assume.

 

Fixed

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4 minutes ago, Jay said:
  • 4M3+4    Enter Winter = a mockup is linked to in the google doc
  • 4M3+4 New    Woods Walk and Birds Flight = a mockup is linked to in the google doc

So the key distinction is that "New" belongs to the cue number, not the title. "4m3+4 New", not "New Woods Walk". (Just not sure how well Bolle's stuff handles spaces)

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Yea in the google doc the "4M3+4 New" is even in a different cell than the "Woods Walk and Birds Flight"

 

Basically there was "4M3+4", then "4M3+4 New", then "4M3+4 New New"

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1 minute ago, bollemanneke said:

Wiat, but surely WB would have been able to provide a film stem? Even the Art of the Score podcast guys got that.

I guess they value LtP concerts over actual releases of the actual music. More money. Bastards.

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3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Wiat, but surely WB would have been able to provide a film stem? Even the Art of the Score podcast guys got that.

 

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ we didn't have it when putting together the set.  I don't have a clue how those podcast guys got that clean music, but I would guess it was given to them by someone who worked on the live to projection concerts

 

3 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Or do you mean music and more documentation?

 

 

I don't know what that is

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