Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 21 hours ago, fommes said: Here's a quick editing guide for Air Force One: For what? The only thing I did was swapping the one film stem cue with volume dips out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 I just turn up the volume and then down again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 If you do that for Hook you must have a steel wrist by now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted March 22, 2020 Share Posted March 22, 2020 On 3/21/2020 at 7:10 AM, fommes said: Here's a quick editing guide for Air Force One: -Combine The Parachutes and The Parachute Attack (Film Version) -Start with the opening of the end credits, switch to The Parachutes about 34 seconds in, and combine with The Parachute Attack for an alternate version -Combine the opening of the film version of Ivan and the Hostages (this is presumably taken from film stem) with the album track (which has the rest in better quality); this way you only need one version in your edit. -Marshall's Plan is the same except the film version has an additional opening, so you can use just that version. -Sign It is not an alternate take, just has an alternate ending. -Add "Empty Rooms" from album (with shortened silences) or the bootleg (silences intact) for the alternate ending (an alternate take with slightly different instrumentation in brass). -Replace "Air Force One in Trouble" with the alternate take because the one in the main programme has volume dips and a very bad editing error. Fact check: -Target Air Force One is the same take as on the bootleg I have. -Get Off My Plane is except for the opening entirely the same take. The film version take for "Target Air Force One" is actually on a "promo" and I actually have that. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trent B 337 Posted March 23, 2020 Share Posted March 23, 2020 Also I still believe the way how the "The Parachutes" opens up via "End Credits" is originally the way how it was written/recorded. As I stated before the very first bootleg of Air Force One's score where the unreleased Goldsmith cues were in mono it had "The Parachutes" then going into the film version of "Parachute Attack". The way how "The Parachutes" on this version of the bootleg is how it plays via "End Credits". If I was able to I'd post the file here in the thread to let you all hear what i'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 28, 2020 Share Posted March 28, 2020 Regarding the new Deluxe Edition, here is what I've found out about the bonus tracks, film stem, missing material etc.: D1T2 "Parachute Attack" --- D2T12 "Parachute Attack (Film Version)" #1 is the OST version, #2 is the film version. D1T7 "The Hijacking, Part One & Two" --- D2T13 "The Hijacking, Part One & Two (Film Version)" #1 the cue as recorded, #2 is the film edit taken from film stem. D1T12 "Empty Rooms" The version on the Deluxe Edition is the extended film version with an alternate ending, the OST ending is missing from the Deluxe Edition. D1T14 "K.V. & The Hostages" --- D2T1 "K.V. & The Hostages (Film Version)" The same recording, but the second one has an additional film version opening and is entirely taken from film stem. D1T18 "Target Air Force One" The version on the Deluxe Edition is an alternate version, the film version is missing from the Deluxe Edition. D1T20 "Marshall's Plan --- D2T15 Marshall’s Plan (Film Version)" The second one is the film version being taken from the film stem. D1T22 "K.V. Lectures --- D2T16 K.V. Lectures (Film Version)" The second one is the film version being taken from the film stem. D2T4 "Sign It! --- D2T17 Sign It (Alternate Take)" The same recording, but the second one has an alternate unused ending. D2T5 "Get Off My Plane! --- D2T18 Get Off My Plane (Film Version)" The same recording, but the second one has an alternate opening. D2T8 "Air Force One in Trouble" --- D2T19 "Air Force One in Trouble (Alternate Take)" #1 is the film version taken from the film stem with major volume issues, #2 is an alternate take in order to provide at least one intact version of the cue. D2T11 "End Credits" This is the film edit taken from the film stem featuring no additional material except the opening drum roll. In the end, at least one version of every cue seems to be available from the superior sounding sources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Display Name 60 Posted March 29, 2020 Share Posted March 29, 2020 I'm really confused. Why did they put the film cues in the bonus section, but the film take with the volume dips couldn't be swapped out with the take that is fine? There are some other tracks in the bonus section that have weird sonic artifacts, maybe that is why they went there, but that still doesn't answer my question from above. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted March 29, 2020 Author Share Posted March 29, 2020 Nobody knows the answer to your question, and the guys who produced this release don't make themselves available for interviews or post on message boards like Mike and Neil do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I guess, they put all the original cues in the main program. They especially mentioned in the booklet, how they seeked out for the spreadsheets of the score and maybe they just stuck to what it told them - thus the original intention in the main program, just the way Intrada did it with Alien. From the End Credits onwards you get whatever film versions or alternates they found (+ the very important alternate take from the one deficient cue from the main program!). But that's where it gets a little negligent: At least one film version and one album version is missing, some more cues in the bonus section have inferior sound too and the edited Hijacking is just needless. @Jay, did you make a spreadsheet of this one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted March 30, 2020 Author Share Posted March 30, 2020 Negative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 I have kind of an unusual playlist on my computer, that leaves out all the Joel McNeely material which I'm not a fan of. Luckily, that way I dodge all these annoying volume issues of this release. Besides, the lenght of 62 minutes is more than enough: The Parachutes Parachute Attack The Motorcade Guided Tour No Security The Hijacking Emty Capsule Empty Hall / Downstairs / Hanging About Terms Stalking the Plane Empty Rooms Get to Work Ivan and the Hostages Mother Russia Plane on the Ground The First Hostage Free Flight I'll Do It Get Off My Plane! Radek's Release Escape from Air Force One Welcome Aboard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 McNeely just isn't very good at keeping a steady volume. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brundlefly 2,385 Posted March 30, 2020 Share Posted March 30, 2020 2 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: McNeely just isn't very good at keeping a steady volume. And at including his film versions on the new release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fommes 153 Posted April 12, 2020 Share Posted April 12, 2020 Quote The film version take for "Target Air Force One" is actually on a "promo" and I actually have that. Quote The version on the Deluxe Edition is an alternate version, the film version is missing from the Deluxe Edition. If you line up the 'film version' and the one on the Deluxe, they are the same take, but there's a slight difference in the beginning, which I think might be either a trumpet overlay or an insert for the very beginning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1977 1,743 Posted June 10, 2020 Share Posted June 10, 2020 On 3/30/2020 at 2:57 PM, Brundlefly said: Luckily, that way I dodge all these annoying volume issues of this release Is there more than one track that has volume dips? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kühni 485 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 I don't know if the formerly "complete release" may be mentioned here. If so, I'll delete the following comparison: I've put the version of the unmentionable I've had for years into Jay's chart. The only bit I found interesting is that one track, "Air Force One In Trouble" is only available on the DE. 2019 Varese Deluxe Edition 1997 OST Bootleg 1-01 The Parachutes (2:08) 1 The Parachutes (5:14) 1-01 Main Titles - Parachutes 1-02 Parachute Attack (3:25) 1-03 The Motorcade (2:43) 2 The Motorcade (2:40) 1-02 The Motorcade - Boarding Air Force One 1-04 Guided Tour (1:27) 1-05 No Security (3:09) 5 No Security (2:59) 1-03 No Security 1-06 Gibbs Fires (0:33) 1-04 Gibbs - The Hijacking 1-07 The Hijacking, Part One & Two (7:52) 4 The Hijacking (7:30) 1-08 Empty Capsule (2:37) 1-05 Recovering the Pod 1-09 Empty Hall, Downstairs, Hanging About (1:38) 1-06 Alive and Alone 1-10 Terms (2:36) 1-07 Intentions 1-11 Stalking The Plane (1:54) 1-08 Hiding (edit?) 1-12 Empty Rooms (4:16) 3 Empty Rooms (4:02) 1-09 Empty Rooms 1-13 Get To Work (0:58) 1-10 Safe - Get to Work (edit?) 1-14 KV & The Hostages (1:15) 1-11 Who Will Be First - A Very Good Negotiator 1-15 NSA Is Shot (1:17) 1-16 Mother Russia (1:30) 1-12 Because I Believe 1-1-17 Marshall On Phone (1:37) 1-13 Emergency Call 1-18 Target Air Force One (2:40) 1-14 Order to Fire 1-19 Plane On The Ground (1:07) 1-15 An Idea - Fuel Control 1-20 Marshall's Plan (0:54) 1-21 The First Hostage (2:50) 1-16 Melanie Mitchell - Rules of War 1-22 KV Lectures (0:27) 1-23 Dumping Fuel (2:29) 1-17 The Right Wire 1-24 Fuel's On Its Way (1:03) 2-01 Freeing the Hostage - A Fax from Air Force One 1-25 Fax To The White House (1:19) 1-26 Escape In Process (0:39) 1-27 Where Is The President? (0:43) 2-01 Free Flight (4:54) 6 Free Flight (4:41) 2-02 Free Flight 2-02 Hostage President (4:00) 2-03 Marshall Meets Ivan . I'll Do It 2-03 I'l Do It 1:22) 2-04 Sign It! (2:04) 2-04 Radek is Released 2-05 Get Off My Plane! (4:51) 2-05 Marshall makes his Move 2-06 Radek's Release (with Chorus) (1:42) 2-06 Radek is Free 2-07 The Dogfight (4:14) 2-07 Air Combat 2-08 Air Force One In Trouble (3:14) 2-09 Escape From Air Force One (5:29) 7 Escape From Air Force One (5:25) 2-08 Escape from Air Force One 2-10 Welcome Aboard (2:10) 8 Welcome Aboard, Sir (2:06) 2-09 Welcome Aboard Sire 2-11 End Credits (6:01) 2-10 End Credits 2-12 Parachute Attack (Film Version) (3:24) 2-13 The Hijacking, Part One & Two (Film Version) (7:51) 2-14 KV & The Hostages (Film Version) (1:29) 2-15 Marshall's Plan (Film Version) (1:05) 2-16 KV Lectures (Film Version) (0:32) 2-17 Sign It (Alternate Take) (2:08) 2-18 Get Off My Plane (Film Version) (4:51) 2-19 Air Force One In Trouble (Alternate Take) (3:15) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Another " collection of cues" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,370 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 On 9/27/2019 at 7:52 PM, Disco Stu said: It kinda seems like McNeely deserved a main co-composing credit given how many of these cues he's credited on. Interesting. I must confess that I never watched the movie, but I bought long ago a soundtrack CD of Air Force One where only one track is credited to be composed by Jerry Goldsmith, the Main Theme. The rest of the tracks is credited to be composed by Joel McNeely. So, I thought, it is either like Solo, where one composer just wrote the title track, or one of the scores was rejected. Does anyone know the actual circumstances? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 20 hours ago, Kühni said: I don't know if the formerly "complete release" may be mentioned here There's never been a time on this website that people weren't allowed to talk about bootlegs. You might be thinking of FSM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 No, there was a time, when we were under different management, when bootleg discussion was temporarily disallowed, and the word 'footwarmer' emerged as a substitute, as we tried to get around the rule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 I've been mod for 10 years and never had to enforce anything like that. Ricard's always been the only owner of the site. I remember him asking me once about posts talking about a new score before the release date (I don't remember which one), but don't recall discussing people talking about music you can't buy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 It must've been longer ago than that, but it definitely happened. It wasn't as strict as FSM's policy though. (and by 'management', I mean the moderators at the time, not Ricard.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Yeah, I remember that "high-necked leather footwarmer" was introduced here as a substitute term for some reason I feel like it happened after the Indiana Jones Concord box came out and before the FSM release of Star Trek II came out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 Wojo coined the term on May 12, 2009 here: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17627-michael-giacchinos-star-trek/&do=findComment&comment=569664 That was before I was mod, it would have been Mr Breathmask then I believe. He wouldn't have cared if anyone talked about boots. Before him was Neil Bulk. I don't think he cared then either, he didn't start working in the industry until later. Maybe Ricard didnt allow it for a while. I don't remember Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 It was definitely under the Breathmask/Bulk era. I'm not sure we ever fully understood what was behind the rule but we weren't allowed to talk directly about bootlegs any more, and it didn't go down well. I struggle to find examples as it was a long time ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted September 26, 2020 Author Share Posted September 26, 2020 I found it! Marc made a new policy about not discussing bootlegs about a month before Wojo's post, and posted it as an announcement, not a discussion thread. I don't remember any of this, but apparently I copied the entire text of his announcement in this thread here: https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/17524-jwfans-new-bootleg-discussion-policy/ This was well before I was a mod, Mr. Breathmask and apparently still Neil were the only mods at the time. I think this policy was only ever lightly enforced and didn't accomplish much, and just kind of got phased out organically without any hurrah. I don't feel like digging more to see if I can find a reversal announcement, but I don't think there is one; One of the first things I did as a mod was go over all the rules Ricard wanted for the forum and we rewrote some together, and that got posted here in 2011 https://www.jwfan.com/forums/index.php?/topic/20175-forum-rules-please-read-before-posting/ So apologies for misremembering, while it has been allowed for the majority of the past 21 years, there was indeed a brief window where either Marc, or Marc and Ricard combined had second thoughts about it Richard Penna 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted September 26, 2020 Share Posted September 26, 2020 Good job digging that up! Reminds me of a few things, including what I later suspected was the actual reason for that temporary ban. Dark days in JWFan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 So dark I had forgotten all about it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 I recently purchased the expanded score, great music co-wrote with Joel McNeely. The movie is still okay, but I think to myself it has aged not so well. I didn't knew that Randy Edelman original score was rejected for this one. The shame! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 1 hour ago, Bespin said: I didn't knew that Randy Edelman original score was rejected for this one. The shame! It wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted September 27, 2020 Author Share Posted September 27, 2020 Randy Newman (the "I Love LA“ guy) was the original composer, not Randy Edelman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Wrong Randy, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,284 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Jay said: Randy Newman (the "I Love LA“ guy) was the original composer, not Randy Edelman It’s a fun alternate effort but I can see why it was probably too much for the film. Randy Newman is a touch too ironic in his Americana whereas Jerry just serves it up with total seriousness. Plus Randy’s action music is just too frenetic scoring every moment rather than enhancing the overall drama and momentum of each scene. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 5 hours ago, Bespin said: Wrong Randy, sorry. Waz it Eidelman. Edelman.. Or Endelman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A. A. Ron 1,742 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Randy Slenderman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 2 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: Randy Newman is a touch too ironic I keep saying this: Whoever had the idea of getting Newman to score this and thought he could ever take it even remotely seriously must have had no idea about what else Newman had been writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bespin 8,483 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 Dis-moi oui, Randy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, Marian Schedenig said: I keep saying this: Whoever had the idea of getting Newman to score this and thought he could ever take it even remotely seriously must have had no idea about what else Newman had been writing. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted September 27, 2020 Share Posted September 27, 2020 3 hours ago, bruce marshall said: Waz it Eidelman. Edelman.. Or Endelman? I wrote a poem with that title. Like, Dr. Seuss- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,284 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 8 hours ago, Marian Schedenig said: I keep saying this: Whoever had the idea of getting Newman to score this and thought he could ever take it even remotely seriously must have had no idea about what else Newman had been writing. Then again, scores like The Natural, Avalon and Awakenings (to name but three) are very sincere so it's not like he can't write with genuine emotion or scoring without any hint of irony. However, totally agreed that he didn't seem an ideal fit for Air Force One. I assume the chance of his score ever getting a release is slim to non-existent but maybe one day, it's still got some fine writing in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 Trump's theme Tom Guernsey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted September 28, 2020 Share Posted September 28, 2020 11 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: Then again, scores like The Natural, Avalon and Awakenings (to name but three) are very sincere so it's not like he can't write with genuine emotion or scoring without any hint of irony. However, totally agreed that he didn't seem an ideal fit for Air Force One. I assume the chance of his score ever getting a release is slim to non-existent but maybe one day, it's still got some fine writing in it. Oh, I'm certainly not saying that Newman is incapable of writing sincere, or moving, or "serious" action music. He's done so before. But I imagine none of it was for a film that's basically an apotheosis of a US president gloriously killing terrorists. I imagine he must have been tempted to use Political Science as an end credits song. (It would have fit in nicely with Goldsmith's score as well, in at least one regard: Additional Engineer: Bruce Botnick) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 What's the highlights of this release that's not included on the OST? bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 It's a sincere question. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I always found the expanded action material the most exciting stuff. There's also the 'creeping' music with the piano, but I'm not sure if that was already on the album - possibly similar to Empty Rooms, but I think there's some more somewhere. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 What do you say, @Thor, what's the best tracks missing from the OST? Yavar Moradi and Richard Penna 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,692 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I'm sure it's well known that Goldsmith wanted Radek's Death on the album, but Townson couldn't afford the fees. I'm sure Thor has absolutely no opinion on that omission Yavar Moradi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted February 19, 2021 Share Posted February 19, 2021 I'm sure he thinks it's shit and doesn't deserve to see the light of day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,367 Posted February 19, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted February 19, 2021 5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said: What's the highlights of this release that's not included on the OST? On 10/12/2019 at 7:50 PM, Jay said: Listening to this now coming out of my big living room speakers and it is all just so awesome! Radek's Release and The Dogfight are two fantastic back to back cues, and probably the next two cues that would have been added had the OST been able to have been even just 45 minutes instead of the 35 we got. The chorus in Radek's Release is really cool and The Dogfight is one helluva action banger! Jurassic Shark, Ollie and Yavar Moradi 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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