WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 This time of year is usually when I bust out the mammoth work of Shore’s LOTR scores. Thankfully there’s a number of different ways to enjoy them. What’s your preferred listening experience? The OSTs? The Complete Recordings? The Symphony? A personal edit of all available resources? Or just anything and everything involving this masterpiece? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,508 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 The OSTs. They are the only ones I own, and will ever own. WampaRat, Chewy and gkgyver 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I go back and forth between the new CR blurays and my personal edit of them, which joins some tracks and uses some of the alternates I prefer. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 @Thor can I ask, have you listened to the CRs at all? I understand you have a deep appreciation for the composers initial selection on the OST as far as “listening experience”. But there’s some incredible stuff that unfolds in the complete recordings. Granted, there’s also some stuff that kinda slows things down (in the case of RotK and a few spots in Two Towers at least). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 The OSTs are good, but a few tracks here or there in FOTR could be neatly replaced by CR tracks. Seems like they went for a few less punchy alternates in the OST. Otherwise those CRs are too damn long and exhaustive. They try my patience. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 A fixed version of FOTR and then the TTT and ROTK CRs as-is, for now anyway WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Its a combination of the CR (predominantly), the OST and other bits and pieces. I actually really, really appreciate that the CR is not a replacement to the OST: sometimes, its nice to just have a 70-minute distillation of the score to hand, and its nice that that shorter presentation is peppered with some unique alternates that make it distinct. That some of these alternates are among the best pieces of music in the whole cycle is just the icing in the cake. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 The Complete Recordings are the most essential expansions available. I love the OSTs, and frequently spin them, but damn. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I never went back to the OSTs after CR came out. I tend to listen to them in their entirety. Sometimes, occasionally, I listen to the TTT album as it was my favourite of the three initial discs. I never listen to the symphony. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 minutes ago, crocodile said: I never went back to the OST's after CR came out. But...but...The Prophecy...Helm's Deep...The White Tree?! blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 The Prophecy is good but I prefer the Rarities version. The White Tree is indeed a very good track. Helm's Deep...what's so special about this one? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I love some of the OST arrangements also. I am still very used to, and fond of, Bridge of Khazad-dum and Minas Tirith. Let's not forget the album Pelennor either Shore's LOTR: the gift that keeps on giving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, crocodile said: Helm's Deep...what's so special about this one? The choir instead of the Hardanger fiddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, WampaRat said: @Thor can I ask, have you listened to the CRs at all? I understand you have a deep appreciation for the composers initial selection on the OST as far as “listening experience”. But there’s some incredible stuff that unfolds in the complete recordings. Granted, there’s also some stuff that kinda slows things down (in the case of RotK and a few spots in Two Towers at least). And Fellowship is so repetitive! 1 hour ago, Thor said: The OSTs. They are the only ones I own, and will ever own. The Fellowship OST is enough for me. Holko 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, Jurassic Shark said: And Fellowship is so repetitive! Is it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 10 minutes ago, crocodile said: I never went back to the OST's after CR came out. I tend to listen to them in their entirety. Sometimes, occasionally, I listen to the TTT album as it was my favourite of the three initial discs. I never listen to the symphony. Karol This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I like the variety of The Two Towers. Even though it is mostly a non-chronological presentation it flows really nicely musically. I agree that Fellowship is bit repetitive and I never really liked The Return of the King. There's just way too much missing. Karol KK and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, blondheim said: Is it? A little bit with all the Ringwraith music. The OSTs are not without flaw, but they're some damn fine OSTs. This thread has me listening to the Return of the King OST. Damn, The White Tree is something else, and the transition to the sad Gondor music in the next track is enough to draw tears. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, blondheim said: Is it? There are a lot of Nazgul theme renditions. But if you're able to put that aside, the CR has so much richer content over the OST. For instance, I've always thought the Lothlorien material is criminally (though understandably) cut short on the OST. 1 minute ago, crocodile said: I like the variety of The Two Towers. Even though it is mostly a non-chronological presentation it flows really nicely musically. I agree that Fellowship is bit repetitive and I never really liked The Return of the King. There's just way too much missing. Karol Stop reading my mind. The ROTK is perhaps the most highlights/action-driven of the OSTs, but it still feels like a loosely edited playlist. The CRs just make more sense musically. TTT feels like the best 1 hour showcase of the score. crocodile and WampaRat 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 Strange. I never thought of Fellowship as repetitive. For me both the Ost And the CR of that score are the best in the trilogy:) Edmilson 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 2 minutes ago, KK said: There are a lot of Nazgul theme renditions. But if you're able to put that aside, the CR has so much richer content over the OST. For instance, I've always thought the Lothlorien material is criminally (though understandably) cut short on the OST. I guess if I think about it, the Ringwraith music is a little repetitive but it's just so satisfying, I've never thought of it that way. There is definitely more variety in Towers and King. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 4 minutes ago, Chen G. said: A little bit with all the Ringwraith music. Not to mention the Shire music! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Jay 37,369 Posted November 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2020 I think the TTT OST is one of the best examples of album rearrangement that exists. I don't mean that it does a great job of selecting every right highlight and anything not on the OST isn't as good, but what I mean is that out of the music that was chosen (which does cover all the ideas Shore had for the whole score very nicely), the way it is arranged is immaculate. The whole disc just has a great flow to it, the fact that it's not chronological at all doesn't really matter much at all. It just works! jwalk713, crocodile, blondheim and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted November 30, 2020 I know this: when I put on the LOTR scores, regardless of their presentation, I have never thought, "I don't know if I need this..." Chen G., jwalk713 and Bilbo 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Yeah, it is the Ringwraith material that creates that sense. I suppose that's one element of the score I don't quite buy. When I read the book these creatures felt more to me like a very silent horror-like presence. Think the initial encounter scene from the film. It's a fine composition but I wouldn't have done that. Feels like bit too much. I actually much prefer the proto-Nazgul music from The Hobbit. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 3 hours ago, blondheim said: I guess if I think about it, the Ringwraith music is a little repetitive but it's just so satisfying, I've never thought of it that way. There is definitely more variety in Towers and King. Oh yea, the Ringwraith stuff has always been my guilty pleasure listen, so I've never complained. But I would argue FOTR is still the most diverse and varied in musical palette and colour, just by necessity of the story. The other scores start to double-down on more singular tones (especially TTT). Each score has its own thing going for it. WampaRat and blondheim 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I was always a huge fan of Orff so I feel differently. Even as a kid I thought, "Nazi... Nazgul...? The man's a genius." crocodile and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 Anyone happen to have a 70-75 min playlist made from the CRs for each film in the trilogy? (Is that even possible without chopping them up?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,017 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 minute ago, blondheim said: I was always a huge fan of Orff so I feel differently. Even as a kid I thought, "Nazi... Nazgul...? The man's a genius." That is an interesting way to look at it. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 One funny aspect of the Nazgul music for me is that - compared to both in At the Sign of The Prancing Pony on the OST and The Nazgul on the CR - I found the piece so much more effective in the scene because the choir peaks and then is allowed the reverberate into silence. On album, the music almost immediately continues to churn, so some of the effectiveness of that moment is undone. One almost wishes they'd add an extra moment of quiet into the album at that point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holko 9,526 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I count 5 or 6 tracks that feature it in the first half, one is the prologue, Keep It Secret only has a short quote, The Nazgúl only leans on it early on... Overall it's a nice presence, a constant threat, growing and growing in intensity. 8 minutes ago, crocodile said: I suppose that's one element of the score I don't quite buy. When I read the book these creatures felt more to me like a very silent horror-like presence. Think the initial encounter scene from the film. It's a fine composition but I wouldn't have done that. Feels like bit too much. I guess part of it might be what they say in the Appendices: initially the Wraiths just weren't scary at all, more ridiculous, until they really leaned into the sound design. They talk mostly about the shrieks but I suspect their music being a more overt kind of ancient dramatic threat could be the result of that too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I love the shrieking flute trill when they trample the poor old man at the gate. (Still scary, even though you can see that it is just a coat hanging on a hook) Chen G. and KK 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,369 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 20 minutes ago, WampaRat said: Anyone happen to have a 70-75 min playlist made from the CRs? (Is that even possible without chopping them up?) Are you asking for 75 minute playlists for EACH CR, or a 75 minute best of culled from all three CRs? WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,508 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, WampaRat said: @Thor can I ask, have you listened to the CRs at all? I understand you have a deep appreciation for the composers initial selection on the OST as far as “listening experience”. But there’s some incredible stuff that unfolds in the complete recordings. I have, yes. I totally agree with you that there are some beautiful pieces of music not on the OST in those sets. But I've never been into 'individual pieces' that way; what matters most is how the the whole thing plays from I press 'play' untill it finishes. And I'm not sure the existing OSTs would have been any better as a listening experience if certain tracks from the expanded sets had replaced, or added to those that are already there. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I listen to the Symphony more often these days because I like the performances and choice of pieces, but for the past six years, whether it was by public transport or just personal listening, I religiously listened to the CRs in and out. Now I'm working my way through the OSTs for those sweet alternates! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,534 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 The Complete Recordings DVD, in 5.1. It's the only way to fly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 Fellowship is largely a beautifully arranged album, and will forever have nostalgic importance (it was the first time I left a cinema wanting to hear the music), but I've always felt it has too much Ringwraith material early on. That's got nothing to do with missing music at all - purely from an 'experience' perspective - it has 6 tracks in a row with the same chanting and ostinatos. Now don't get me wrong, that material is haunting and effective, but I really think that about 2/3 of it should've been dropped, and a bit more time given to later in the score. I do listen to it now and again, but having a strong attachment to the film means that all the microedits stick out like a sore thumb. I listen to the RotK CR the least - it's got by far the most padding, which the album sort of rectifies, although the amount of music not composed when the album was made makes it feel like it's missing something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 1 hour ago, Jay said: Are you asking for 75 minute playlists for EACH CR, or a 75 minute best of culled from all three CRs? 75 from each CR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,044 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 OST or CR for me, depending on my mood. That's just for FOTR...I almost never listen to TTT, and I never even bothered with ROTK. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gkgyver 1,645 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 This is why Thor's attitude is ridiculous. If you have a 70 minute OST, and a 100 minute score, and you say the OST is all that's necessary, that's understandable. If you have a 70 minute OST, and a 180-200 minute score, and you say the OST is all that's necessary, that's fundamentalism. A. A. Ron and Chen G. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 I also happen to think that the listening experience of each disc in the Complete Recordings has a well-defined narrative. Opens nicely, closes nicely, etc. Like Thor, I also just press play and go. The Lord of the Rings books are each divided into smaller books so while I think splitting discs is sometimes frustrating with other scores, with LOTR it echoes the novel. If you think about it. It makes the experience even more genuine for me. I don't always go in for expanded releases but I cannot in this case prefer the OST. I will keep both because they are separate experiences but I don't consider them equal. (Sidebar: I even like the Balin's Tomb/Khazad-dum split, although I can understand why someone wouldn't. However the set comes with a DVD or Blu-ray so it doesn't deny you that experience.) WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,105 Posted November 30, 2020 Author Share Posted November 30, 2020 Not a lot of love for the Symphony it seems. Just finished listening to it since it had been a while. I think it’s a fantastic suite of all three score highlights. But the performance is a bit ...different...than the actual film scores. Has anyone tried to recreate the symphony’s selection of cues by cutting together the ost/CRs for the sake of better performances? Arpy 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arpy 4,145 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 The only thing I dislike about the Symphony is that it cuts out Three is Company to go straight into A Shortcut to Mushrooms. I guess it gets straight to the action, but I love that cue too much to let it go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted November 30, 2020 Share Posted November 30, 2020 30 minutes ago, WampaRat said: Has anyone tried to recreate the symphony’s selection of cues by cutting together the ost/CRs for the sake of better performances? I thought about doing that, but hadn't gotten around to it. Ideally, you'd also want the presentation that goes with the Symphony. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 12,079 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 On 12/1/2020 at 12:40 AM, Chen G. said: I thought about doing that, but hadn't gotten around to it. Ideally, you'd also want the presentation that goes with the Symphony. What kind of presentation would that be? PowerPoint? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Penna 3,694 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 On 11/30/2020 at 9:10 PM, gkgyver said: This is why Thor's attitude is ridiculous. If you have a 70 minute OST, and a 100 minute score, and you say the OST is all that's necessary, that's understandable. If you have a 70 minute OST, and a 180-200 minute score, and you say the OST is all that's necessary, that's fundamentalism. There's nothing wrong with only wanting a CD of material from the average 'epic' score. As I said earlier, I think the OST and CRs satisfy different audience and moods. But I think it's very unreasonable to continually insist that for for a project with hours and hours of music, with tapestries of themes, that only (say) an hour of music is ever needed, and that nothing should ever be added to it. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Unlucky Bastard 7,782 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 I dunno, I found those CRs tended to drone on forever and ever. They made me appreciate the OSTs a fair bit more. Jurassic Shark 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quintus 5,399 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 On 11/30/2020 at 4:26 PM, The Big Man said: The OSTs are good, but a few tracks here or there in FOTR could be neatly replaced by CR tracks. Seems like they went for a few less punchy alternates in the OST. Otherwise those CRs are too damn long and exhaustive. They try my patience. The trick is to know which tracks and sections of the score to skip wholesale. Most of the Fangorn material for example, can be passed over, because bar a handful of (really good) highlights buried within the cues, they're absolutely boring tracks overall. Thor will have acutely erroneous notions about the releases by and large: the CRs absolutely blow the rudimentary OST releases away, it's not even funny how thoroughly superior the more lavishly expansive later releases are. In fact there's so much great music absent on the OST that one could quite effortlessly compile an alternative OST album just out of that originally unincluded cue content. Possibly even a third alternate, such is the sheer wealth of fine musical storytelling in the myriad of cues written for the film. I wonder if the same could be said about the Star Wars soundtracks? The only part I replaced on my car USB was the beginning Hobbiton EE music. I much prefer the original OST version of Concerning Hobbits, because I think it flows better, and it reminds me more of the theatrical cut of the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheUlyssesian 2,478 Posted December 6, 2020 Share Posted December 6, 2020 On 11/30/2020 at 12:33 PM, Chen G. said: A little bit with all the Ringwraith music. The OSTs are not without flaw, but they're some damn fine OSTs. This thread has me listening to the Return of the King OST. Damn, The White Tree is something else, and the transition to the sad Gondor music in the next track is enough to draw tears. I’d say The White Tree singlehandedly won Shore his second Oscar for scoring - it is that impactful in the cinemas. blondheim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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