SteveMc 2,674 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Discuss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 1,157 Posted June 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2021 The Terminator is his best film. Glóin the Dark, SteveMc and karelm 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 No, Aliens is. But The Abyss is second. Release the 4K version already! Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LSH 968 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Terminator 2: Judgement Day is his best overall film. Titanic is his most 'accomplished'. The Abyss is great, it really is, but it falls slightly short of those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blondheim 1,157 Posted June 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, Thor said: No, Aliens is. But The Abyss is second. Release the 4K version already! I really don't like Aliens. Alien all the way for me. Bill Paxton single-handedly ruins that film. If it weren't for him, man, I might be able to get through it more often. Nick1Ø66, Holko, QuartalHarmony and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,504 Posted June 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2021 I consider Aliens one of the greatest films in the history of cinema. Seen it probably 70 times by now. But The Abyss is no slouch either. I’m probably at 20+ times for that. Both cornerstones of my very interest in film and/or film music. Loert, Yavar Moradi, crumbs and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yavar Moradi 2,599 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, blondheim said: I really don't like Aliens. Alien all the way for me. Bill Paxton single-handedly ruins that film. If it weren't for him, man, I might be able to get through it more often. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kasey Kockroach 2,344 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Deepstar Six is better. A. A. Ron and Nick1Ø66 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 I'm not big on Aliens either. The only thing that feels real in the whole movie is the thing with Ripley and the kid. Which makes the third act on the best third acts in cinema history. But the rest I can really do without. The Terminator is probably Cameron's best film, with The Abyss being his best visionary work. T2 is fantastic too. With Titanic, and especially Avatar, he was given too much money. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 28 minutes ago, Thor said: No, Aliens is. But The Abyss is second. Release the 4K version already! 4K? How about just Blu-Ray! We don’t even have The Abyss in HD. To my knowledge none of Cameron’s films are available in 4K. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edmilson 7,453 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 36 minutes ago, blondheim said: Terminator 2 is his best film. Fixed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 I'll never understand why Cameron is loved so much. I don't think his films are worthless, but they are beautiful mediocrities to me. I don't mind when a story dips out of the same cauldron we all dip out of. But the actual line by line dialogue is so dreadful that I often can't watch them more than once, or only for academic reasons. They are technically proficient, excellently-made films but it can't fix what's inside. I personally need more. Terminator 1 is the film that has the least amount of pretension for its concept and isn't boggled down by how great Cameron thinks he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Nah. Abyss is definitely good, but T2 is his best. (The simpler and more dated original gets honorable mention.) And as silly as parts of it are, Titanic is up there too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveMc 2,674 Posted June 9, 2021 Author Share Posted June 9, 2021 1 minute ago, Datameister said: Nah. Abyss is definitely good, but T2 is his best. (The simpler and more dated original gets honorable mention.) And as silly as parts of it are, Titanic is up there too. I think T2 feels more dated than T1. T2 has that unmistakable 80s SoCal feeling. T1 rises above its setting and the period genre trappings. It's simplicity is a great strength, and makes it paradoxically more complicated than T1. T2 is extraordinarily well made and complicated, but in a way that makes it the cinematic equivalent of a thrilling theme park. blondheim and Holko 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted June 9, 2021 Share Posted June 9, 2021 Just now, SteveMc said: the cinematic equivalent of a thrilling theme park. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Datameister 2,043 Posted June 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2021 3 hours ago, SteveMc said: I think T2 feels more dated than T1. T2 has that unmistakable 80s SoCal feeling. T1 rises above its setting and the period genre trappings. It's simplicity is a great strength, and makes it paradoxically more complicated than T1. T2 is extraordinarily well made and complicated, but in a way that makes it the cinematic equivalent of a thrilling theme park. Wow, I couldn't disagree more! Everything in the first one feels more dated to me - from the hairstyles and wardrobe to the special effects and the look of the film stock. Not to mention the score! Of course, I don't think dated = bad, and T2 is very much of its own time, too...but it doesn't stand out as much for me in 2021. To be clear, I didn't intend the word "simple" in a disparaging way. The first one is built that way intentionally, and it does it very well. But it too is a thriller, i.e. a cinematic equivalent of theme park thrill rides. It just goes about it in a more streamlined, lower-budget way that evokes the early-mid-80s rather than the advent of the 90s. I should also say that I love theme parks, especially the ones that make earnest and well-funded attempts at immersing you in different worlds. So comparing a film to a theme park isn't disparaging for me, either. SteveMc, Edmilson and QuartalHarmony 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 I really like the FULL- SCREEN , Directors version. The shorter, cropped version isn't nearly as enjoyable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 I don't think there is anything wrong with crafting a thrill ride of a film. I am just sort of dumbstruck when these simple amusements get lauded as incredible pieces of cinema. I'm not saying a thrill ride can't be cinema but James Cameron doesn't do it for me. That's me. Good on you if they bring you pleasure. I don't like whips and clamps either but hey, different strokes. If it weren't for the scores, there's a whole bunch of them I would probably never watch again. I've never once been unimpressed with the visuals that I can remember. The opposite actually. The man has set the standard for special effects at least three times. I'll give him his due where it is deserved. He's a hell of a director but he should never write another script or story treatment. Unless he takes night classes. Just for shits and giggles, why not get an incredible writer to do what they do best and direct the hell out for that. Just once. His technical prowess attached to great material could really be something but alas we have Cameron smothering the life out of his productions with his bloated sense of self-importance. Lucas fell prey to this in the prequels.* When we mother too much, we smother. *Every Cameron movie is like a Star Wars prequel in a way, only prettier and without PowerPoint transitions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corellian2019 386 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 T2 is my favorite Cameron film, but I agree that Aliens is his best, even if Cameron's attempt at locker room banter among the colonial Marines can sound like a middle-schooler trying to emulate an alpha Chad. But the remainder of the film from the time that the xenomorphs invade the compound to the ending...my goodness, what a master class. True Lies probably has the best line-by-line dialogue in a Cameron film, perhaps because it's based on a French comedy(!) 6 minutes ago, blondheim said: He's a hell of a director but he should never write another script or story treatment. Unless he takes night classes. Just for shits and giggles, why not get an incredible writer to do what they do best and direct the hell out for that. Funny you say that because in an essay on the Ultimate Edition DVD, he confesses that he hates writing SteveMc 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 5 minutes ago, Corellian2019 said: even if Cameron's attempt at locker room banter among the colonial Marines can sound like a middle-schooler trying to emulate an alpha Chad. True Lies probably has the best line-by-line dialogue in a Cameron film Funny you say that because in an essay on the Ultimate Edition DVD, he confesses that he hates writing I have often stated that his films have the sensibility of a hormonal 15-year old boy. True Lies is... You can tell he hates writing. When you like something, you put effort into getting better at it. Cameron's problem is he doesn't have to. The public continues to give him a free pass. Not just a free pass, the level of fandom associated with him is insane. Honestly maybe I was beat up too much as a kid, but I have no desire to hang out with dude-bro Bill Paxton even one more time unless I am drinking through it. Much less 70 times. That sounds like a circle of hell to me. Aliens on repeat. That's my idea of hell: "They mostly come out at night... mostly... They mostly come out at night... mostly..." over the loudspeaker and then "Man... man... man... man!" It's the sound of a mind coming apart at the seams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post crumbs 14,316 Posted June 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2021 That third act of Aliens is a film-making masterclass. The best directed, well, anything in its genre. And the way he introduces all the characters and themes throughout the first two acts makes it all the stronger. His films aren't just technically proficient, but his storytelling sensibilities are some of the best in the business. Edmilson, Tallguy, SteveMc and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,369 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 A friend once said, somehow you see in Cameron's movies that he is not really the intellectual type of guy. Anyway, I used to be a big fan and would also consider Aliens best, but just regarding the cinema cut, not the longer version. I don't like that one. T2 is second, including the extended cut. And I must confess, I might even like True Lies better than The Abyss. But Abyss is 4th in my ranking. Then comes the original Terminator. At the Abyss I never liked the ending. I always thought, they cannot get saved, they should have all died. It is such an unbelievable deus ex machina ending, which didn't fell right for me. They could never get back to the surface that fast etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Great director, mediocre writer. Imagine if he directed a script by the Nolan's?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, blondheim said: I don't think there is anything wrong with crafting a thrill ride of a film. I am just sort of dumbstruck when these simple amusements get lauded as incredible pieces of cinema. I'm not saying a thrill ride can't be cinema but James Cameron doesn't do it for me. That's me. Good on you if they bring you pleasure. I don't like whips and clamps either but hey, different strokes. If it weren't for the scores, there's a whole bunch of them I would probably never watch again. I've never once been unimpressed with the visuals that I can remember. The opposite actually. The man has set the standard for special effects at least three times. I'll give him his due where it is deserved. He's a hell of a director but he should never write another script or story treatment. Unless he takes night classes. Just for shits and giggles, why not get an incredible writer to do what they do best and direct the hell out for that. Just once. His technical prowess attached to great material could really be something but alas we have Cameron smothering the life out of his productions with his bloated sense of self-importance. Lucas fell prey to this in the prequels.* When we mother too much, we smother. *Every Cameron movie is like a Star Wars prequel in a way, only prettier and without PowerPoint transitions That sums up my feelings on Avatar. Pretty impressive visuals, but a total snooze-of-a-been-there-done-that plot. Very much disagreed on the prequels, though. Lucas's cinematic shortcomings are pretty different from Cameron's. That's interesting, what you said about thrillers. Can you think of any that you'd also describe as incredible works of cinematic fine art? I can't think of any offhand. Some are certainly a lot more sophisticated, layered, or polished than others, but a thriller is still a thriller (which is fine). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blondheim 1,157 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Datameister said: That sums up my feelings on Avatar. Pretty impressive visuals, but a total snooze-of-a-been-there-done-that plot. Very much disagreed on the prequels, though. Lucas's cinematic shortcomings are pretty different from Cameron's. That's interesting, what you said about thrillers. Can you think of any that you'd also describe as incredible works of cinematic fine art? I can't think of any offhand. Some are certainly a lot more sophisticated, layered, or polished than others, but a thriller is still a thriller (which is fine). I'll think on this further but off the top of my head, Rear Window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,333 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Cameron's Alita: Battle Angle is severely underrated. I take that over Avatar any time. GerateWohl and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 18 minutes ago, blondheim said: I'll think on this further but off the top of my head, Rear Window. Ooh, I haven't seen that one. I'll have to check it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 4,369 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 hour ago, bruce marshall said: Great director, mediocre writer. Imagine if he directed a script by the Nolan's?! I subscribe your first statement. But I am not sure if Tenet would have been any better under Cameron's direction. 39 minutes ago, AC1 said: Cameron's Alita: Battle Angle is severely underrated. I take that over Avatar any time. Do we count in films just produced by Cameron as well? Like Terminator Dark Fate and Alita? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 44 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: I subscribe your first statement. But I am not sure if Tenet would have been any better under Cameron's direction. Oh no! I meant if he had a script the quality of the DARK KNIGHT films. GerateWohl 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 9 hours ago, Nick1066 said: 4K? How about just Blu-Ray! We don’t even have The Abyss in HD. To my knowledge none of Cameron’s films are available in 4K. Oh, absolutely. But there was a news blurb awhile back that they were in the process of transferring the film to 4K, but it was postponed because it needed Cameron's input, and he was/is so caught up in the AVATAR sequels. So a 4K Blu-ray is presumably on the way. The question is just how long we'll have to wait. Nick1Ø66 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Folks can't even be satisfied with plain.old 1080 bluray?!. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 I would, but since they're already in the process of upgrading it to 4K, it wouldn't really be any point in releasing/buying a straight BR first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chen G. 3,949 Posted June 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2021 3 hours ago, crumbs said: His films aren't just technically proficient, but his storytelling sensibilities are some of the best in the business. Yeah, I don't get all these comments about him being a good director but a bad writer. Sure, of the two his stronger suit is directing, but that doesn't make him a bad writer by any stretch of the imagination. Nick1Ø66, crumbs and Edmilson 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 20 minutes ago, Thor said: I would, but since they're already in the process of upgrading it to 4K, it wouldn't really be any point in releasing/buying a straight BR first. Can you play 4kuhd on a standard br player? 1 minute ago, Chen G. said: Yeah, I don't get all these comments about him being a good director but a bad writer. Sure, of the two his stronger suit is directing, but that doesn't make him a bad writer by any stretch of the imagination. He has good concepts but often relies on cliches and recycled story ideas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 minute ago, bruce marshall said: Can you play 4kuhd on a standard br player? Don't know. Maybe not. But I need to get a new BR player anyway, as my last one got broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 minute ago, bruce marshall said: He has good concepts but often relies on cliches and recycled story ideas. All storytelling ideas are to some extent recycled. For some reason, only Cameron gets accused of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 45 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Folks can't even be satisfied with plain.old 1080 bluray?!. It was always Cameron's artistic intention for the Russian water tentacle to be in 4K. SteveMc and bruce marshall 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Chen G. said: All storytelling ideas are to some extent recycled. For some reason, only Cameron gets accused of this. TERMINATOR " borrowed" story ideas from. two OUTER LIMITS episodes. AVATAR is a virtual compendium of recycled stories from DANCES WITH WOLVES to POCAHONTAS and more.. ABYSS is like CE3K under the ocean. I think he is a great talent but his flaws are real Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, bruce marshall said: I think he is a great talent but his flaws are real Do you know a filmmaker who has no flaws? I sure don't. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 4 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: Can you play 4kuhd on a standard br player? Nope. But the opposite it true. 5 minutes ago, bruce marshall said: He has good concepts but often relies on cliches and recycled story ideas. Hmmmmm. Well perhaps. But there really aren't any new stories, are there? Avatar got a lot of criticism for its relative simplicity, but its themes are actually very old in terms of storytelling. Which I don't necessarily think is a bad thing. This simplicity and universality is part of what made the film so appealing to so many people. I actually think simplicity is way underrated in terms of effective storytelling. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,504 Posted June 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted June 10, 2021 Moreover, I don't go to Cameron movies for terribly original stories. Screw that. I go to him for experience-oriented cinema, wherein I'm envelopped in a world. A purely visceral form of filmmaking. Thankfully, film is about more than just storytelling. Nick1Ø66, bruce marshall and SteveMc 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 9 minutes ago, Thor said: Don't know. Maybe not. But I need to get a new BR player anyway, as my last one got broken. Since 4K doesn't play on standard br players, you have to issue a standard 1080 Disc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, bruce marshall said: Since 4K doesn't play on standard br players, you have to issue a standard 1080 Disc. That's fine. Release both simultaneously, so people can choose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick1Ø66 4,714 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Chen G. said: Do you know a filmmaker who has no flaws? There are no flawless filmmakers; only flawless films. And of those, we have a precious few. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Thor said: I go to him for experience-oriented cinema, wherein I'm envelopped in a world. A purely visceral form of filmmaking. Thankfully, film is about more than just storytelling. Its about storytelling through pictures. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Thor said: Moreover, I don't go to Cameron movies for terribly original stories. Screw that. I go to him for experience-oriented cinema, wherein I'm envelopped in a world. A purely visceral form of filmmaking. Thankfully, film is about more than just storytelling. I loved AVATAR when I saw it in 3d IMAX. When I watched it at home, I was struck by the cliched and predictable script. My.opinion dropped considerably. ALIENS is a film I can watch again and again. I'll never watch AVATAR again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Chen G. said: Its about storytelling through pictures. Not necessarily. It can also be about communicating ideas or moods, where 'story' takes a back seat. Godard was never really interested in stories. His films DID have stories, to one extent or another, but they were rarely the most important thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chen G. 3,949 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 1 minute ago, Thor said: It can also be about communicating ideas or moods And what is "communicating ideas or moods" through pictures if not storytelling through pictures? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,315 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Well, story is important; otherwise we are just watching abstract images for two hours. Chen G. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,504 Posted June 10, 2021 Share Posted June 10, 2021 Just now, Chen G. said: And what is "communicating ideas or moods" through pictures if not storytelling through pictures? Because it's not storytelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now