James Horner's THE MASK OF ZORRO (1998) - 2023 2-CD Expanded Edition from La La Land Records, produced by Neil S. Bulk

[Jay 37,369]

In the Omni book, it's "Dance" not "Sexy Dance"

 

 

I don't have a clue which title Horner used himself, if either.

[Edmilson 7,466]

LLL knows that sex sells! 

 

10 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Anyone who have the liner notes, please answer me: when were the recording dates for the score? I'm curious to know how far removed the recording of this score (and Deep Impact, when we eventually get that expansion) were from Horner winning his Oscar in the night of March 23, 1998.

No one is going to answer my question? I feel so ignored... 😭

[MrJosh 892]

 

 

This score has a special place in my heart. This OST was my first ever that I bought for myself when I got my first job. I had other soundtracks (mostly John Williams), which were gifts from family members, but I remember walking into a Wal-Mart, going to the CD section (back when that existed) and to the soundtrack section (back when that also existed), and picked it out. Feels crazy to have the complete score after all this time!

 

 

[Tallguy 3,398]

12 hours ago, Edmilson said:

LLL knows that sex sells! 

 

No one is going to answer my question? I feel so ignored... 😭

 

I'm not ignoring you, I just don't own this. (Yet?) Which score did he do before Titanic that actually came out after? Was that Mighty Joe Young? So was this the first score that he actually wrote AFTER he was a gazillionaire? (That sweet sweet Celine Dion money.)

 

I've finally cracked why this score never clicked with me (although I love the film). I wanted The Rocketeer or Krull. (Or The Mark of Zorro, right?) What we got was Lawrence of Arabia with Swords. It's not quite as zippy and heroic as I was expecting. But... How can you not love Lawrence of Arabia with Swords? It's just lush as all get out. It's like what if Braveheart was FUN!

 

Dumb thing to say, I suppose, but I'm really starting to warm up to this score.

[Edmilson 7,466]

5 minutes ago, Tallguy said:

I'm not ignoring you, I just don't own this. (Yet?) Which score did he do before Titanic that actually came out after? Was that Mighty Joe Young? So was this the first score that he actually wrote AFTER he was a gazillionaire? (That sweet sweet Celine Dion money.)

From the movies that came out in the year that he won his Oscar, Deep Impact was released in May, Zorro in July and Mighty Joe Young in December. So theoretically he recorded those scores on this order.

 

However, Zorro was supposed to come out first in December of 1997, then in March 1998 before finally being released in July because Sony wanted an action movie for the summer. So there might be a chance that Horner recorded it before Deep Impact, though I'm not confident about it.

[Tallguy 3,398]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

From the movies that came out in the year that he won his Oscar, Deep Impact was released in May, Zorro in July and Mighty Joe Young in December. So theoretically he recorded those scores on this order.

 

However, Zorro was supposed to come out first in December of 1997, then in March 1998 before finally being released in July because Sony wanted an action movie for the summer. So there might be a chance that Horner recorded it before Deep Impact, though I'm not confident about it.

 

I remembered one of them got moved around. But I couldn't remember which one. I mean between Titanic and Tomorrow Never Dies, Zorro would have had a tough go of it.

[Edmilson 7,466]

1 hour ago, Tallguy said:

 

I remembered one of them got moved around. But I couldn't remember which one. I mean between Titanic and Tomorrow Never Dies, Zorro would have had a tough go of it.

It was Zorro. According to Wikipedia:

 

Quote

The Mask of Zorro was initially set for release on December 19, 1997 before the release date was changed to March 1998.^[50] There was speculation within the media about whether TriStar changed the date in an attempt to avoid competition with Titanic. In reality Zorro had encountered production problems that extended its shooting schedule. In addition, Sony Pictures Entertainment, TriStar's parent company, wanted an action film for its first quarter releases of 1998.^[39] The release date was once again pushed back, this time to July 1998, when pick-ups were commissioned.^[51] The delay from March to July added $3 million in interest costs.^[52]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mask_of_Zorro#Release

 

If indeed there were pick-ups that delayed the movie from March to July, I imagine Horner didn't start to record his score after those were finish, so maybe April or May - surely after Deep Impact was totally finished.

[GerateWohl 4,370]

Concerning the movie, which really adore, the difference in quality between The Mask of Zorro and its sequel The Legend of Zorro is comparable to Jaws and Jaws 2. And like with Jaws the second movie has a solid score as well. But the movie... I could hardly believe, that the second one was also directed by Martin Campbell. On the other hand, he also made Green Lantern.

Pretty big ups and downs.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

I actually love The Legend of Zorro more as a score than even The Mask of Zorro. But I agree... the film is terrible, largely because of the story/script. Catherine Zeta-Jones somehow looks even more beautiful than she did in the first film though.

 

Yavar

[Tallguy 3,398]

17 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

Concerning the movie, which really adore, the difference in quality between The Mask of Zorro and its sequel The Legend of Zorro is comparable to Jaws and Jaws 2. And like with Jaws the second movie has a solid score as well. But the movie... I could hardly believe, that the second one was also directed by Martin Campbell. On the other hand, he also made Green Lantern.

Pretty big ups and downs.

 

Martin Campbell is not a reliable film maker. His ups are way up. But his downs? It's crazy.

 

But I hear the score to Z2 is amazing.

 

Like...

 

Just now, Yavar Moradi said:

I actually love The Legend of Zorro more as a score than even The Mask of Zorro. But I agree... the film is terrible, largely because of the story/script. Catherine Zeta-Jones somehow looks even more beautiful than she did in the first film though.

 

Yavar

 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I actually love The Legend of Zorro more as a score than even The Mask of Zorro. But I agree... the film is terrible, largely because of the story/script. Catherine Zeta-Jones somehow looks even more beautiful than she did in the first film though.

 

Yavar

In the second movie I was especially disappointed with the fight scenes. The action in the first movie was outstanding. Some of the best fencing scenes I have ever seen. And then in the second one, nothing of that magic, really nothing.

 

A little bit like watching A Quantum of Solace after Casino Royale. 

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Except much more bizarre because Quantum of Solace had a different director and also suffered greatly from timing with a writer's strike. But Legend of Zorro had the same director and still ended up really sucking, aside from Horner's incredible score.

 

Yavar

[Edmilson 7,466]

I loved watching The Mask of Zorro as a child on TV. One of the most solid and entertaining blockbusters of the last two and a half decades (!). But Legend was such a disappointment. Even as a kid I couldn't believe how bad that movie was. 

[Brónach 1,302]

i don't remember the original at all, but i remember it was like a big deal. i remember the sequel barely existed and nobody would bring it up.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

That's because after 7 years people like me were excited for a follow up from the same director/team... and it really, really sucked. But it didn't even suck bad enough to actually talk about much, like say the Star Wars prequels. It was just terribly lame and mediocre.

 

Yavar

[Edmilson 7,466]

I honestly can't believe that after 7 years they chose only the most boring and stupid ideas for a sequel, like Elena blackmailed into divorcing Alejandro, Alejandro becoming depressed and alcoholic and with an annoying kid.

 

But then again Mask actually had competent screenwriters behind it, while Legend was written by the same dudes who regurgitated Transformers, The Amazing Spider-Man 2, Cowboys & Aliens and that Tom Cruise Mummy movie that no one saw.

 

Martin Campbell may be a competent director, but he needs a good script (see also GoldenEye, Casino Royale). Otherwise, we get The Legend of Zorro and Green Lantern.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Oh, you're right. Why on earth couldn't get they the same screenwriters back from the original???

 

Yavar

[MrJosh 892]

I recall being really let down by the sequel too. I hardly remember it! So, I just watched a trailer. Confusing because when watching the trailer, it looks like there's some fun stuff in there...but I hardly remember any of it. 

 

Maybe I'll give it another go sometime. 

[Tallguy 3,398]

The script for the first one is so good. It's nothing ground breaking perhaps, but it does it all so well and the cast is so good. This kind of movie usually pulls out all the stops to subvert this or reinvent that. While Mask of Zorro does By the Numbers and surprises us by NAILING it.

 

I never bothered with the sequel. It's funny, if you want to tell a story that's decades later and it turns out not everything worked out for Our Heroes then I'm still on board. But if you do just a few years later and you break up your happily ever after couple just so you can get them back together again? I'm out. (That is what happens, right?)

 

Speaking of which: Man, people think Luke Skywalker had it bad? Look at what happened to Anthony Hopkins' Zorro! Talk about a tragic tale!

 

Between this, Desperado, and Evita I couldn't figure out why Antonio Banderas wasn't the biggest movie star of the age.

 

 

[Mr. Who 919]

6 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I actually love The Legend of Zorro more as a score than even The Mask of Zorro. But I agree... the film is terrible, largely because of the story/script. Catherine Zeta-Jones somehow looks even more beautiful than she did in the first film though.

 

Yavar

I also prefer Legend to Mask score wise. The first film is way way better though. The opening track from Legend has my favorite variation of the main theme probably, when the strings come in around halfway through the cue. That variation is so good and full of energy!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

i loved the train music.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

The Train is one of the most awesome album tracks in Horner's entire career. Pretty sure it's several shorter cues combined into one epic length track, though. Would be very interested to see how a complete & chronological release of the score turned out. There was more missing from Mask of Zorro than I expected!

 

Yavar

[Edmilson 7,466]

I remember reading somewhere that The Train were the two climactic cues but with their orders reversed, with the second cue in the movie appearing before the first one on the OST track. Kinda like Zimmer's I Don't Think Now Is the Best Time from Pirates 3.

 

Either way it'll probably be a long time before Legend can be properly expanded because of that idiotic post-July 2005 AFM rule thingy.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Oh? When in 2005 was it recorded?

 

Yavar

[Jay 37,369]

Was it not recorded in London like Mask?

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

Nope I’m pretty sure it was recorded in LA, unlike the first score (London).

 

Yavar

[OneBuckFilms 323]

It was recorded by LA session musicians at the Todd-AO scoring stage, which sadly no longer exists.

 

One of James Horner’s favorite recording venues.

Some info:

 

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/collaborations-english/todd-ao-scoring-stage/

 

http://jameshorner-filmmusic.com/todd-ao-years/

[Laserschwert 475]

I don't have many specific memories about the first film, though I totally remember the latino flair and bits and pieces from its action scenes. You know that feeling when you remember a movie not for its plot, but for some individual aspects, like how an actor looked in a costume (Banderas and the bandana/mask was so different from prior Zorro masks, and his "lower half of his face acting" was so good), or how a set design made you feel when watching it? Don't remember much about the story.

 

But even less so with the sequel, where I only remember it feeling like someone's let all the air out of an action-packed and exciting first film. It felt really depressing.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

10 hours ago, Edmilson said:

I remember reading somewhere that The Train were the two climactic cues but with their orders reversed, with the second cue in the movie appearing before the first one on the OST track. Kinda like Zimmer's I Don't Think Now Is the Best Time from Pirates 3.

 

The Train is beyond awesome indeed, and against my better judgements, Pirates 3 handles the end battle music really well in terms of flow. Putting the Beckett death music first and then the outragously fun 'wedding' music, was as genius as some of Williams' combos.

[Edmilson 7,466]

8 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Nope I’m pretty sure it was recorded in LA, unlike the first score (London).

 

Wait, the first score was in London? That is a bit unusual for mid-to-late 90s Horner, who usually recorded his stuff in LA. Perhaps the Zorro sessions overlapped a bit with those of Back To Titanic?

[Amer 2,110]

Was it Air Lyndhurst in London??

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 254]

I don't know if the dates appear in the booklet of the new edition. LLL no longer sends me anything.
 

But I have almost all the dates of the recording sessions.  In fact, I supplied the dates for the recent editions of Intrada (Battle Beyond the Stars and Humanoids). I found just about everything by cross-referencing various documents: Simon Rhodes' calendar, the Todd-AO Scoring Stage printed schedules, the cue sheets present in the scores and paid research at AFM Local 47.

Indeed, the first Zorro was recorded at Air Lyndhurst in London. But as they ran out of time, the rest of the recording took place at Todd-AO. The long piece for the final scene features both orchestras!

 

As for the 1998 timeline, I had made this illustration, which I commented on during a videoconference for the book's patrons.

 

 

[Jay 37,369]

On 12/12/2023 at 8:16 AM, Edmilson said:

Anyone who have the liner notes, please answer me: when were the recording dates for the score? I'm curious to know how far removed the recording of this score (and Deep Impact, when we eventually get that expansion) were from Horner winning his Oscar in the night of March 23, 1998.

 

The recording dates are not listed in the booklet.

 

However the booklet does say that this was the first score Horner did after Titanic, and that Deep Impact was next after this (but then the films' release dates were changed)

 

 

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Wait, the first score was in London?

 

The booklet says that it was recorded at Air Studios, Lyndhurst Hall, London, though does not list an orchestra

 

Except 5 cues were recorded at Todd-AO Scoring Stage, Ctudio City, CA with the Hollywood Studio Symphony: "1-20 Sexy Dance", "2-06 Leave No Witnesses" [8:43-end only], "2-07 Diego's Goodbye (Film Version)", "2-12 The Confession", "2-13 Diego's Goodbye"

 

And the song was recorded at Bovaland, New York AND Sarm West, London AND Metropolis Studio, London.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Wow, this is fascinating!

 

11 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

Indeed, the first Zorro was recorded at Air Lyndhurst in London. But as they ran out of time, the rest of the recording took place at Todd-AO. The long piece for the final scene features both orchestras!

 

So "Leave no Witness..." and "Diego's Goodbye", as we can hear them in the movie and the albums, are actually composites made of recordings by both orchestras? And did each of the orchestras record these very long (13 and 5 minutes) pieces start to finish, or just like, a segment of a cue was recorded in London then another segment in LA, etc?

 

13 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

 

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

However the booklet does say that this was the first score Horner did after Titanic, and that Deep Impact was next after this (but then the films' release dates were changed)

 

It makes sense for him recording Zorro before Deep Impact, as Zorro was supposed to come out in March while DI was released in early May. Also, apparently Zorro had some pick-ups in late 1997 which made the movie be pushed back from March to July, so it makes sense that the new scenes caused Horner to be occupied with it until February.

[Jay 37,369]

41 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

I don't know if the dates appear in the booklet of the new edition.

 

They do not.

 

41 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

LLL no longer sends me anything.

 

You're thanked in the Special Thanks section! 

 

41 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

But I have almost all the dates of the recording sessions.  In fact, I supplied the dates for the recent editions of Intrada (Battle Beyond the Stars and Humanoids). I found just about everything by cross-referencing various documents: Simon Rhodes' calendar, the Todd-AO Scoring Stage printed schedules, the cue sheets present in the scores and paid research at AFM Local 47.

 

Wow, cool!  If you knew the dates, it too bad that information could not have been included in the booklet!

 

41 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

As for the 1998 timeline, I had made this illustration, which I commented on during a videoconference for the book's patrons.

 

Wow, that's interesting.  Zorro overlapped with Deep Impact in a crazy way, and that final red blob just before the film's release date must be the song?

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 254]

Yes, that's the song. The orchestral track was clandestinely recorded during the Mighty Joe Young sessions! One of the many fun tidbits that will be in the book.

 

I'm honored to be in the thanks! Thank you for this information. @Jay Too bad I wasn't contacted ahead of publication to provide the dates of the sessions. Just as I would have appreciated being contacted on previous editions to point out missing tracks and typos in names.
 

As for the details of the tracks recorded in London and Los Angeles, all the information will be in the book... well, more precisely, in volume 2.

 

[Jay 37,369]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

So "Leave no Witness..." and "Diego's Goodbye", as we can hear them in the movie and the albums, are actually composites made of recordings by both orchestras? And did each of the orchestras record these very long (13 and 5 minutes) pieces start to finish, or just like, a segment of a cue was recorded in London then another segment in LA, etc?

 

The Omni Book tells us that "Leave No Witnesses" is "12M1 Battle at the Mine" and "13M1 The Revenge" combined together into one long track.  So I guess 12M1 was recorded in London, then all or most of 13M1 was recorded in LA.

 

Diego's Goodbye (the film cue) was recorded entirely in LA according to the LLL booklet.

 

Diego's Goodbye (the album track) was as well, and is "Love Theme" in the Omni book.  So it seems to be a concert arrangement that he recorded just for the album, but then slapped a film cue title onto instead of calling it "Love Theme from Zorro" or "Alejandro and Elena" or something

The LLL booklet also tells us that "Confessions" was a concert arrangement of the courtship theme, though the Omni book just calls it "Confessions (Album)".

 

 

33 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

Yes, that's the song. The orchestral track was clandestinely recorded during the Mighty Joe Young sessions! One of the many fun tidbits that will be in the book.

 

As for the details of the tracks recorded in London and Los Angeles, all the information will be in the book... well, more precisely, in volume 2.

 

Cool!  When is the book expected to be published?

BTW, don't miss this post!

[Edmilson 7,466]

42 minutes ago, Jay said:

Wow, that's interesting.  Zorro overlapped with Deep Impact in a crazy way, and that final red blob just before the film's release date must be the song?

Here's a doubt about the chart: are they only about the recording dates or do they include the composing and orchestrating dates too?

 

In theory, it makes sense Horner writing Deep Impact in January and February while recording the final cues for the pick-ups of Mask of Zorro, then recording DI between March and April.

 

I would be surprised to know if he really spent four months recording Deep Impact, since the movie is not even that long (121 minutes). Unless it had a troubled post-production with constant changes in the edit, filming additional scenes, Horner having to record numerous versions of the same cue, etc.

 

What do you think, @Jean-Baptiste Martin?

[Jean-Baptiste Martin 254]

@Edmilson Sorry for the confusion. I didn't specify that the color bars don't indicate the recordings but the whole process : spotting sessions / composition / recording / mixing.
It was just a schematic to show how 1998 was organized and how busy it was. I did this many years ago now and so I shared this without studying it deeply again.

[Edmilson 7,466]

46 minutes ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

@Edmilson Sorry for the confusion. I didn't specify that the color bars don't indicate the recordings but the whole process : spotting sessions / composition / recording / mixing.
It was just a schematic to show how 1998 was organized and how busy it was. I did this many years ago now and so I shared this without studying it deeply again.

No problem! I'm still thankful for all the fascinating information! 

 

So I guess the recording of Zorro took a little bit longer than usual probably due to the pick-ups. Deep Impact, in comparison, seems relatively quick: he spotted the movie in January and by late March/early April he had already recorded and finished it. 

 

Mighty Joe Young seems "business as usual", although it is a little strange that it was pretty much finished about 6 months before the movie came out  Though I guess it was because Horner wanted to dedicate the second half of the year to Back to the Titanic?

 

And of course the Zorro song, which was finished very close to the release date. That seems like a very entertaining story. 

[Tallguy 3,398]

I had forgotten that Zorro was going to be out in December 1997. But I had REALLY forgotten that Titanic was supposed to be a summer release that year too!

[Jay 37,369]

That I definitely remember.  I was very much looking forward to seeing Titanic that summer, being a huge fan of all his Camerion's prior films at the time.  I remember learning that it was pushed back to December, from what I recall the word was that it was because he wanted to add CGI breath to the characters in the cold at the end.

 

I also remember that its new date was the same as Tomorrow Never Dies' opening day, and on that day I chose TND to see at the cinema, and only caught Titanic at the cinema later.

 

And I had both OST albums before their films opened

[Tallguy 3,398]

20 minutes ago, Jay said:

That I definitely remember.  Was looking forward to seeing it in the summer, then learned it was pushed back to December, I remembering hearing because he wanted to add CGI breath to the characters in the cold at the end.

 

I also remember that its new date was the same as Tomorrow Never Dies' opening day, and on that day I chose TND to see at the cinema, and only caught Titanic at the cinema later.

 

And I had both OST albums before their films opened

 

Me too! And I saw TND opening night, Titanic on Saturday. I don't remember how soon I saw it again. Soon. But yeah, those two CDs were pretty much all I listened to for weeks.

 

Heh. TND apparently used the same studio in Mexico that Titanic did. Cameron said "Bond took Titanic apart in the summer. Then Titanic took Bond apart in December."

 

I think I saw the trailer for Zorro with TND. And it looked AMAZING.

[DangerMotif 1,038]

3 hours ago, Jean-Baptiste Martin said:

As for the details of the tracks recorded in London and Los Angeles, all the information will be in the book... well, more precisely, in volume 2.

When will volume 1 be available?

[crocodile 8,017]

I absolutely adore this score. It was my second album from Horner after Titanic and the first one from him that really enchanted me. I played the original album to death when I first got it and it will always hold special place in my heart. It was also the last film I watched with my whole family at the cinema. We all really liked it. It was interesting sequencing for Horner who usually arranges very chronological  programmes. But The Mask of Zorro felt more like a John Williams album with cues combined and out of sequence. It's very cool to hear the entire thing after so many years. Similarly to Willow, the majority of the new material comes from the earlier parts of the film and consists mostly of smaller moments which help to flesh out the narrative and the world of the story. There's actually way more previously unreleased stuff than I realised and it all flows beautifully from start to finish. Wonderful collection of themes and beautiful recording. Horner really embodied the character perfectly and created one of his absolutely best. Classy and charming. I am absolutely over the moon.

 

I really hope there is a way to release the sequel which had a score just as good (and occasionally better). But I also understand it might be more tricky to license.

 

Horner fans were really spoiled this year.

 

Karol

[Tallguy 3,398]

15 hours ago, crocodile said:

But I also understand it might be more tricky to license.

 

I don't know the history. Why is it tricky?

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

You have to call someone. 

[crocodile 8,017]

2 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

I don't know the history. Why is it tricky?

Recorded in LA in 2005. Might end up being cost-prohibitive, depending on the exact dates of recording.

 

Karol

[Edmilson 7,466]

Fuck the AFM.

 

Buncha cunts.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

4 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Fuck the AFM.

Buncha cunts.

 

Seriously? You're going to say that about the entire AFM? I'm sure it was just one AFM lawyer or somebody who screwed up, not making it a sliding date.

 

@Jean-Baptiste Martin do you happen to know the recording dates for The Legend of Zorro?

 

Yavar