Danny Elfman's HELLBOY II: THE GOLDEN ARMY (2008) - 2024 Varese Deluxe Edition

[Jay 37,369]

Releasing Friday February 23rd on digital platforms

 

 

1 Introduction 3:39
2 Hellboy II - Main Theme 1:18
3 Enter Mr. Wink 1:55
4 Auction House 2:34
5 Hallway Cruise 1:34
6 Intro Big Red 0:38
7 Domestic Fight 1:50
8 Where Fairies Dwell (Unedited Original Version) 7:12
9 Red’s OK 0:43
10 Royal Family 1:21
11 A Big Decision 0:22
12 Manning Ridicule / Father And Son 5:16
13 Mein Herring 1:04
14 Teleplasty 1:19
15 Intimidated? / Secret Agent Suite 1:05
16 Entering Troll Market / Marketplace Suite 1:21
17 Troll Market Source 0:56
18 Troll Market Source (Alternate Version) 1:11
19 Princess And Abe 0:28
20 Search And Interrogation 1:51
21 Reading Each Other 2:28
22 Market Fight / Ground Wink 2:29
23 Little Informants / The Bean Suite 1:19
24 Birth Of A God 0:41
25 Elemental Flight 1 & 2 2:55
26 The Last Elemental 4:13
27 Big Decision 1:12
28 A Link 1:28
29 Fuck - Used 0:36
30 He's Here 0:52
31 Spear (Film Version) 2:00
32 The Dilemma 2:53
33 Recollection 1:57
34 They’re Off 1:01
35 Doorway - Pts. 1-3 3:31
36 A Choice 3:42
37 Decision Made Pt. 1 & Pt. 2 Suite 1:11
38 Army Chamber / Kill Them (Film Version) 6:02
39 Finale (Film Version) 3:46
Total: 81:53

 

https://music.apple.com/nz/album/hellboy-ii-the-golden-army-original-motion-picture/1728782353

 

Arriving physically on the CD format this Friday as well, beginning at noon PST IIRC

[Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,433]

This looks nice

[Stark 316]

Is it complete? I thought the score was longer than that.

[bruce marshall 1,315]

ACOC

[Andy 4,138]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

29 Fuck - Used 0:36

 

[Edmilson 7,466]

43 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

Not the first time that Elfman actually used curse words in his cue titles 

 

 

[Jim Ware 526]

49 minutes ago, Andy said:

 

The manuscript is less sweary!

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

For those who like a more rarified online digital store(!), Presto have it... https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/9607338--hellboy-ii-the-golden-army

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

Someone on Facebook (admittedly not always an entirely reliable source) has said that the official expanded release is missing a cue from the boot/sessions, Hellboy Vs Nuada - anyone able to confirm or deny?

[Faleel 5,355]

34 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Someone on Facebook (admittedly not always an entirely reliable source) has said that the official expanded release is missing a cue from the boot/sessions, Hellboy Vs Nuada - anyone able to confirm or deny?

Saw that on Filmtracks as well.

[HunterTech 994]

Removing the alts and cues that seem to have been slightly trimmed (if perhaps just to remove noise), about 6 minutes of material is missing on the DE. While some of it is incredibly minor, that does include two tracks that form the complete climax.

 

I initially assumed this was so that the whole thing fits on one disc, but it barely pushes past the limitations of a CD, so it couldn't be that. Given the original OST, I get the feeling this was maybe an Elfman mandate, since that also presents the last portion in the same manner. Why these specific tracks I couldn't begin to speculate on, but I do wonder if it's maybe something of a compromise in order to leave out the original album (which I am just noticing VS haven't had to include in the way LLL and Intrada do).

[ddddeeee 257]

1 hour ago, HunterTech said:

Given the original OST, I get the feeling this was maybe an Elfman mandate, since that also presents the last portion in the same manner. Why these specific tracks I couldn't begin to speculate on, but I do wonder if it's maybe something of a compromise in order to leave out the original album (which I am just noticing VS haven't had to include in the way LLL and Intrada do).

Hadn't thought about this before. I think it's possible.

 

Elfman said during press at the time that he and Del Toro thought of The Golden Army theme as being the main theme of the movie. This theme plays prominently throughout the Army Chamber cue but, naturally, doesn't appear in the Nuada cue. With that track gone, the albums are firmly bookmarked with the Golden Army theme.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

I fully understand and agree with that logic and I've moved a few tracks around on personal playlists in order to have a score start and end in a nice way.

 

But by now surely Elfman understands that these albums are meant to be complete, with listenability as a secondary aim. If a track doesn't work in C&C order he should just put it somewhere else!

[HunterTech 994]

Interesting theory, yet with Elfman's fondness for having bonus tracks on some of his recent OSTs, I'm not sure why they couldn't have been presented out of sequence at least if that was the intent.

 

Who knows, maybe VS are already planning a later Hellboy 2-pack re-release with all the missing trinkets, ala their recent Scream box set.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Are these two unreleased tracks (a term we should never have to use when talking about complete releases) on the OST? Or I'll have to download the bootleg in order to have the complete score?

[Faleel 5,355]

Just now, Edmilson said:

Are these two unreleased tracks (a term we should never have to use when talking about complete releases) on the OST? Or I'll have to download the bootleg in order to have the complete score?

Boot

[HunterTech 994]

It's less the presence of plentiful disc space that bothers me (though it is an issue), and more that the boot evidently was tampered with a bit, since the volume is boosted to the point clipping is definitely present. Which isn't an issue with the remaining missing cues per how quiet they are compositionally, but the two climax cues would definitely suffer from that.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

15 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Removing the alts and cues that seem to have been slightly trimmed (if perhaps just to remove noise), about 6 minutes of material is missing on the DE. While some of it is incredibly minor, that does include two tracks that form the complete climax.

 

I initially assumed this was so that the whole thing fits on one disc, but it barely pushes past the limitations of a CD, so it couldn't be that. Given the original OST, I get the feeling this was maybe an Elfman mandate, since that also presents the last portion in the same manner. Why these specific tracks I couldn't begin to speculate on, but I do wonder if it's maybe something of a compromise in order to leave out the original album (which I am just noticing VS haven't had to include in the way LLL and Intrada do).

Missing Tracks & Some Bitching

It seems kinda strange to miss out the climactic fight cue (I would guess from the title?!) and some other track (any idea which one?). I actually assumed this was a 2CD set to be honest, even more surprising that it's then £27 at the UK Varese store as it's the same price as HTTYD3 which is definitely a 2CD set.

 

14 hours ago, ddddeeee said:

Hadn't thought about this before. I think it's possible.

 

Elfman said during press at the time that he and Del Toro thought of The Golden Army theme as being the main theme of the movie. This theme plays prominently throughout the Army Chamber cue but, naturally, doesn't appear in the Nuada cue. With that track gone, the albums are firmly bookmarked with the Golden Army theme.

Guess that makes sense musically, but still an odd choice I would say. It's not like they missed off some minor cues (I mean, the marketplace cues could have been missed off, fun but inconsequential) for a more coherent listening experience.

 

Cost Bitching

I ended up getting it digitally from Presto Classical for £12.46* in FLAC, less than half the cost of the CD, and an even more significant saving if you include £5 for postage (or £12 if you're me).

 

What is especially irritating is that one of the arguments as to why digital music shouldn't be super cheap is that you're paying for the work of the composer, musicians, engineers, producers etc. and the cost of the physical object is a relatively nominal part of the cost. Now I appreciate that physical CD production costs have almost certainly gone up recently, but if Varese can price this release at somewhere between approx. £13 and £17 digitally (which presumably is sufficient for them to make a decent margin), does that mean the cost of producing the physical disc is £10/£12... ?! Happy to be enlightened but I can't believe it's anywhere near that much given the average cost of "regular" CD releases.

 

*I think this is excluding VAT but I'm not 100% certain either way. As a reference, it's £16.79 at Qobuz for a download at the same quality.

 

Music Comments (a bit more positive, you'll be pleased to know)

It's actually a more enjoyable score than I remember, pretty tuneful and a lot more fun and quirky than some of his more recent bigger, fantasy efforts. Beltrami's original always seems to get all the love but I have to admit that I can't remember much about it whereas there are least a couple of moments in Elfman's that I remembered quite clearly before giving it a spin.

 

Release Comments (with additional bitching... sorry)

At the risk of this being an epic moan of a post (something I'm generally against but these feel like more legitimate complaints than "why did Intrada release this again?"), but some of the tracks sound like the natural decay of the note has been cut off on a few tracks so it sounds like the note has been abruptly been cut off? It's the sort of thing you get with boots(or shonky legit release) from film stems or similar. Anyone else hear it? I could be persuaded that it's just an issue with the digital files from Presto, but I've never had an issue with anything downloaded from their site before and my FLAC to Apple Lossless converter (MediaHuman Audio Converter) has never given me any problems before.

[Bespin 8,483]

Have you considered that the missing music might have been composed by someone who "assisted" Elfman, but they simply didn't want to credit ($$$) that person?

[mstrox 6,651]

People on FSM pointed out that “additional music” was on the OST and on this release as well.  I’m sure it is either an elements issue or the composer’s intent here - and hey, if it is the latter, it’s not the worst thing Danny Elfman has ever done!

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 hour ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I actually assumed this was a 2CD set to be honest, even more surprising that it's then £27 at the UK Varese store as it's the same price as HTTYD3 which is definitely a 2CD set.

 

I guess Danny needs all the money he can get nowadays...

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

2 hours ago, Bespin said:

Have you considered that the missing music might have been composed by someone who "assisted" Elfman, but they simply didn't want to credit ($$$) that person?

I have to admit that I hadn't but guess it's plausible, but then again...

 

2 hours ago, mstrox said:

People on FSM pointed out that “additional music” was on the OST and on this release as well.  I’m sure it is either an elements issue or the composer’s intent here - and hey, if it is the latter, it’s not the worst thing Danny Elfman has ever done!

...by which you mean music by someone else I assume? Have to admit that I've never heard of Halli Cauthry who appears to be the person who contributed additional music to this score. However, apparently they wrote music in tracks that do appear on the release so it makes even less sense in that context.

 

 

Per my original post, has anyone noticed the reverb/decay issue or is that just a me thing?

 

[Holko 9,529]

5 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Per my original post, has anyone noticed the reverb/decay issue or is that just a me thing?

Any specific tracks where it's the most noticeable?

[Jay 37,369]

3 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I actually assumed this was a 2CD set to be honest, even more surprising that it's then £27 at the UK Varese store as it's the same price as HTTYD3 which is definitely a 2CD set.

 

This IS a 2-CD set.

 

https://varesesarabande.com/products/danny-elfman-hellboy-2-the-golden-army-original-motion-picture-score-deluxe-edition-cd

 

Disc 1 is 36 minutes long and disc 2 is 46 minutes long.

[Holko 9,529]

Oh yeah I'm trying some tracks in the streaming version and some tracks are definitely faded down way too early and quickly @Tom Guernsey, it's not you or Presto

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Yes, I hear it too. It's the sort of thing I hear a lot in synth library (and some score/song) tracks where the recording is so chamber-like with no reverb that as soon as the instruments have stopped there's no decay at all.

 

I wouldn't personally go by default into 'someone's screwed up' mode quite yet though. It doesn't help that Varese never voluntarily talks about who produced or mastered a release, or what the source was, so they don't have an opportunity to explain quirks like this.

 

3 hours ago, Bespin said:

Have you considered that the missing music might have been composed by someone who "assisted" Elfman, but they simply didn't want to credit ($$$) that person?

 

That would seem unlikely to me, considering several recent releases that we know have music by additional composers. Dante's Peak is a bit of a crediting mess due to the crazy schedule, Wild Wild West also has quite a lot of score by Peter Bernstein despite Elmer's sole cover credit, and of course McNeely on AF1. Doesn't seem like the whole concept is an issue for Varese in general - in fact I've seen more whining from fans about cover credit not being 100% accurate (such as the technically incorrect 'theme by' for JNH on DP) than any indication that it's a problem for producers.

[Jay 37,369]

We won't have any idea who produced, edited, mixed, or mastered this release until the first person who gets a physical CD edition shares that information from it (unless someone who worked on it volunteers that information somewhere)

[crumbs 14,317]

Crazy that in 2024 we're still getting expansions from the boutique labels without all the music heard in the film.

 

I can't imagine any explanation except the composer wanting that material omitted, for whatever reason.

[Holko 9,529]

8 minutes ago, crumbs said:

Crazy that in 2024 we're still getting expansions from the boutique labels without all the music heard in the film.

 

I can't imagine any explanation except the composer wanting that material omitted, for whatever reason.

In which case fuck the composer, they've had the OST

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

4 hours ago, Jay said:

 

This IS a 2-CD set.

 

https://varesesarabande.com/products/danny-elfman-hellboy-2-the-golden-army-original-motion-picture-score-deluxe-edition-cd

 

Disc 1 is 36 minutes long and disc 2 is 46 minutes long.

My bad, I just looked at the track listing and, given the length, assumed it was a single disc (which it almost certainly could be as far as I understand it). Even more inexplicable to miss out a couple of relatively significant cues if space isn't an issue.

 

3 hours ago, Holko said:

Oh yeah I'm trying some tracks in the streaming version and some tracks are definitely faded down way too early and quickly @Tom Guernsey, it's not you or Presto

 

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

Yes, I hear it too. It's the sort of thing I hear a lot in synth library (and some score/song) tracks where the recording is so chamber-like with no reverb that as soon as the instruments have stopped there's no decay at all.

Glad it's not just me imagining things and not confirmation bias if at least two other people hear it. It doesn't even sound like a split second has been clipped off the end (which would suggest an editing error) so much as someone pulled the fader down too quickly resulting in an unnatural rate of decay, which would be an odd thing to do. It might be that the digital files have the issue (for... "reasons") but the CD will be fine so guess we'll have to see/hear when people get their copies. I'm sure it's relatively obvious when you get the sound file in Audacity or something.

 

3 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

I wouldn't personally go by default into 'someone's screwed up' mode quite yet though. It doesn't help that Varese never voluntarily talks about who produced or mastered a release, or what the source was, so they don't have an opportunity to explain quirks like this.

I certainly don't remember there being any such issues on the OST. As I say, maybe the CD release will be fine and the wrong digital files were provided to online retailers.

[mstrox 6,651]

I think one of the labels said (maybe within the past year?) that they don’t exceed the 81 min or whatever because if they go over a certain length, the pressing plants won’t do it?  Or they wouldn’t guarantee the product or repress any errors?  Something like that.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

Rings a bell yep - something along the lines of they'd do it, but wouldn't be responsible for the cost of repressings due to errors, iirc.

[enderdrag64 624]

4 hours ago, Holko said:

In which case fuck the composer, they've had the OST

Yeah I personally don't understand the point of seeking composer approval with these expansions. If the studios own the rights anyway there's absolutely no reason not release all of the music

[Jay 37,369]

Academy Award-winning director Guillermo Del Toro showing off the brand-new Varèse Sarabande CD Club deluxe edition of Danny Elfman’s score for Hellboy II: The Golden Army! Order your copy now via the link below before it’s too late.

https://found.ee/cdclub-feb24

 

 

https://www.facebook.com/photo?fbid=908372004623103&set=a.714721720654800

[Faleel 5,355]

1 hour ago, enderdrag64 said:

Yeah I personally don't understand the point of seeking composer approval with these expansions. If the studios own the rights anyway there's absolutely no reason not release all of the music

Not pissing them off, so they can help provide info, commentary, elements?

[Edmilson 7,466]

I don't think smaller companies such as Varese, LLL or Intrada would like to find themselves at odds with some of the most powerful composers in Hollywood...

 

Btw, comparing just the tracklists of the OST, bootleg and Deluxe and without hearing those albuns to compare the music, I guess the Hellboy vs Nuada cue that was missing from the Deluxe is on the OST?

 

Here's the track order for the climax of the movie on the bootleg:

• 38. Doorway (3:37)
• 39. A Choice (4:00)
• 40. The Golden Army (0:47)
• 41. Stairway (0:28)
• 42. In The Army Chamber (6:05)
• 43. Challange Of Command (1:15)
• 44. Hellboy Vs Nuada (3:07)
• 45. Finale (3:49)

Now the OST:

• 16. A Dilemma (2:55)
• 17. Doorway (3:35)
• 18. A Choice (3:58)
• 19. In The Army Chamber (5:47)
• 20. Finale (6:06)

Judging by the length of these tracks on both albums, I guess the OST track Finale could be a combo (with a few microedits, of course) of the tracks "Hellboy vs Nuada" and "Finale"? 

 

Now the Deluxe version:

• 35. Doorway – Pts. 1-3 (3:32)
• 36. A Choice (3:43)
• 37. Decision Made Pt. 1 & Pt. 2 Suite (1:12)
• 38. Army Chamber / Kill Them (Film Version) (6:03)
• 39. Finale (from Hellboy II) (Film Version) (3:47)

It seems to be missing the bootleg tracks "The Golden Army", "Stairway", "Challenge of Command" and "Hellboy vs Nuada".

 

Now, if Hellboy vs Nuada is indeed on the OST, all you need to do is replace the Deluxe track Finale by its OST version. 

 

But yeah, it's utterly ridiculous that an expanded edition would not feature the cue for the climactic fight between the main hero and the main villain.

[Richard Penna 3,694]

16 hours ago, enderdrag64 said:

Yeah I personally don't understand the point of seeking composer approval with these expansions. If the studios own the rights anyway there's absolutely no reason not release all of the music

 

You know, a very small part of me says fuck all that composer approval stuff, because (a) I hate it when someone fawns over an artist in order to get something from them (in this case, the words 'composer approved' on the packaging, driving fans nuts), and (b) John Williams's idea of approval is mixed.

 

But... imagine Mike started ploughing through JW's filmography and ignored any requests for scores he didn't want out or cues he'd rather not have out, then when Mike needs help or advice with something, that's going to be a problem.

 

15 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Now, if Hellboy vs Nuada is indeed on the OST, all you need to do is replace the Deluxe track Finale by its OST version. 

 

I ran a couple of tracks from the DE via AudD and it recognised them using their DE track names. Nothing comes up for 'Hellboy vs Nuada' which I found on YouTube. Sadly for this score's fans I think they have indeed left off that entire sequence. I gave a quick skim and didn't find anything of interest.

[Holko 9,529]

Oh I don't have any real problem with seeking composer approval, only with the composer interfering with a proper release IF that is what happened

[ddddeeee 257]

For a bit of context, Elfman asked Intrada to structure the Dick Tracy album the way that they did.

 

On the other hand, I remember him posting on Twitter that he was pleasantly surprised that an expanded Darkman was released and he didn't know anything about it.

[Andy 4,138]

[HunterTech 994]

To actually provide some detail, here's what I gathered using the original copy of the leak (since what circulated initially actually omitted two of the source tracks on the DE, and the alts):

 

3m05v7 Market Door (0:52)

3m08 Bad Decision Stinger (0:22)

6m05a Duel Intro (1:38)

6m05b Challenge Duel (3:24)

 

3m08alt Bad Decision Stinger (0:22)

5m07alt Recollection (2:15)

6m06alt Finale (1:01)

 

Now these last two are strange in that their intros have been slightly cut, in manners that musically make no sense once you hear the unedited tracks. The kicker? The second track doesn't have this issue on the OST!

 

5m04 He's Here (1:15)

6m01ab A Choice-Decision Made (4:15)

 

Combine shortening an original album track with the abrupt fade outs (since I can confirm those are also not supposed to be like that), I'm starting to get the impression this originally was supposed to be a single CD release before they were abruptly given the approval to include more material. It's just way too specific for it to merely be the equivalent of a first time job for a newbie.

[Edmilson 7,466]

Yeah, I just checked it: the cues for the final duel (6m05a Duel Intro and 6m05b Challenge Duel) aren't in the OST either. I was hoping that at least one of them would feature in an abridged version in the OST track Finale, but nope, that track has the actual cue named Finale (6M06) and on the final three minutes left is just the troll market source music. 

 

That said, I was listening to the missing tracks today and I found out that Duel Intro and Challenge Duel are the only action cues in the score that feature a proeminent electric guitar. It's a nice thing that sets them apart from the other action cues. But I wonder if this guitar is precisely the reason why they went unreleased. Maybe the labels couldn't pay for the guitarist who performed on the cues? A similar situation to the missing choir in stuff like Giacchino's Star Trek?

[HunterTech 994]

Ah, now there's a plausible theory right there. Certainly tracks, since it seems only VS have ever had these issues, as they also have had to split cues on some Powell OSTs in a manner that the choir moments are basically isolated (and thus have to pay less as a result). An incredibly strange thing to keep running into, but that's business I guess.

[ddddeeee 257]

I haven't heard the release yet (waiting on the cd), but several cues in the film feature an electric guitar. It's maybe most prominant when the fight starts in the market, but it also appears during the Army Chamber fight and once more if I recall correctly. 

[Richard Penna 3,694]

5 hours ago, HunterTech said:

Ah, now there's a plausible theory right there. Certainly tracks, since it seems only VS have ever had these issues, as they also have had to split cues on some Powell OSTs in a manner that the choir moments are basically isolated (and thus have to pay less as a result). An incredibly strange thing to keep running into, but that's business I guess.

 

Yes, I vividly remember Powell explaining that in some live interview he was doing - the choir fees were structured such that they had to pay based on the duration of tracks they were in, so if a track were 5 minutes long but only had the choir performing for 5 seconds, they still demanded 5 minutes of fees.

 

Very sad if they have to do this for Hellboy due to fees or other related reason. Although I wouldn't always be on Varese's side with vocalist/instrumentalist issues - the two Prison Break albums are missing the soloist on the main title theme track and it must surely be because they didn't want to have to pay them royalties.

[Stark 316]

Wasn’t the choir left off one of Gia’s Star Trek releases for a similar reason too?

[mstrox 6,651]

Yes, but I believe Hellboy 2 was recorded in London, so wouldn’t be subject to the mechanics of union contracts.

[Jay 37,369]

On 26/02/2024 at 11:29 AM, Jay said:

We won't have any idea who produced, edited, mixed, or mastered this release until the first person who gets a physical CD edition shares that information from it

 

Produced by Danny Elfman

Edited by ???

Mastered by Chas Ferry and Melinda Hurley

Liner notes by Dan Schweiger

 

[Andy 4,138]

That “limited edition of 2,000” is… new.
 

is that a sticker? 

[Jay 37,369]

Nope!