James Newton Howard scores King Kong?

[Greg1138 3]

I know it's mentioned on KongisKing, but when it is announed on either the Universal or KingKongMovie sites I will believe it....

....and weep....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That could be days?

The official King Kong site doesn't look like one that's gonne carry the latest news anytime soon, they'll change it when they have enough stuff to warrent an update.

[Lurker 5]

Greg, if I were you I'd be getting those tissues and handkerchiefs ready.

Neil

[Kendal_Ozzel 36]

Yes, I wouldn't say it's just like JWFan.net. Have we ever gotten "official" recognition?

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

Thinking about TTT DVD feature, I remember PJ wanting something "hummable" for the Rohan theme and Shore not delivering immediately. His first crack at the the end titles song for ROTK - "Use Well The Days" - got a big thumbs down too. Perhaps for these films there was enough material to work with and develop from the FOTR to dilute any dissatisfaction with Shore's ideas. Just a thought.

No no.

There were never problems with the Rohan theme mentioned. Jackson just tells an anecdote that he told Shore he wanted hummable themes for the second film as well, and that some time later he (or rather, his wife) found himself humming the Rohan theme in the car.

The thing with Use Well the Days had mostly to do with the lyrics as I understand it. They used a poem from the book about new adventures, and it didn't feel like a proper ending. They later came up with Into the West, also inspired by the death of Cameron Duncan.

[Miguel Andrade 1,264]

****spoiler alert*****

I believe Shore was to appear in the film as well as the band leader when Kong is presented on stage and had composed a piece for that scene before recording the actual score. I wonder if PJ will have to reshoot that scene.

Only now am I going through this so I don't know if this was already pointed out...

But it wouldn't be a first that source music from a rejected score makes it to the film. Back in 1997, Williams was hired to re-score Rosewood, original scored by Winton Marsalis. But Marsalis piano music, used as source for a piano teacher playing, stayed in the film.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Cool.

[Hitch 57]

And Bernard Herrmann was still used as sound consultant on TORN CURTAIN even though the studio rejected his score in favor of John Addison's. All those expletives the sound engineer had to delete. I believe that same engineer was responsible for those missing 15 minutes of the Nixon tapes.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

18 minutes, actually.

[Hitch 57]

How do you know? Were you involved as well? Perhaps you are the real "Deep Throat"?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I could tell you.

But i'd have to send Hal Holbrook and Richard Widmark to kill you.

[Hitch 57]

Didn't anyone tell you? Hal Holbrook met with a nasty end in the fog. And Richard Widmark? Didn't he die in some western with John Wayne?

Hitch, contacting Edward Woodward and Elmer Bernstein as we speak.

[benefactor 3]

“Rather than waste time arguing with a friend and trying to unify our points of view, we decided amicably to let another composer score the film.”

I like this part of Jackson statement. Isn’t arguing with a friend and trying to unify points of view sometimes a part of any real artistic collaboration?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It depends.

When the arguing turns bitter or neither party are willing to conform or rethink the approach it can really sour the creative juices.

That's what happened between Hitchcock and Herrmann.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

http://www.soundtrack.net/news/article/?id=669

It may be true.

It's usually not a good sign for a film when the score gets replaced.

2001: A Space Odyssey managed ok

[Morlock 11]

But it wouldn't be a first that source music from a rejected score makes it to the film. Back in 1997, Williams was hired to re-score Rosewood, original scored by Winton Marsalis. But Marsalis piano music, used as source for a piano teacher playing, stayed in the film.

Similar case with Waterworld- Marc Isham's little theme for the music box in the film was retained, even though his score was replaced by JNH's.

[pixie_twinkle 48]

my country....Australia.....they are better at it. They're the world champions. Even though they lost the Ashes they still the number 1.

Ah, but for how long? England had the Aussies running scared throughout the Ashes this year. Not to mention that Australia's top players are close to retirement now, and so far I don't see a replacement for Warne! England on the other hand are really strong right now. Could be that the tables are turning finally!

[SturgisPodmore 0]

In my opinion, there is not today, nor has there ever been, a film composer that is a much better composer than Howard Shore is.

On what grounds do you make this dubious claim, save for your own personal liking of Shore?

This is excellent news.

~Sturgis, now heading over to the other boards to see what has happened . . .

[Damo 0]

my country....Australia.....they are better at it. They're the world champions. Even though they lost the Ashes they still the number 1.

Ah, but for how long? England had the Aussies running scared throughout the Ashes this year. Not to mention that Australia's top players are close to retirement now, and so far I don't see a replacement for Warne! England on the other hand are really strong right now. Could be that the tables are turning finally!

Who knows what will happen next. We just have to wait and see what happens, as the future unfolds itself.

[Greg1138 3]

my country....Australia.....they are better at it. They're the world champions. Even though they lost the Ashes they still the number 1.

Ah, but for how long? England had the Aussies running scared throughout the Ashes this year. Not to mention that Australia's top players are close to retirement now, and so far I don't see a replacement for Warne! England on the other hand are really strong right now. Could be that the tables are turning finally!

Well said that man!!

Greg - who is not hanging in blind hope that this whole shore/JNH thing is a falsehood.....just want to see it officially.....

.....well - would't you want to see something a little more concrete if Spielberg suddenly turned round and said "I'm dropping Williams' Munich score after creative differences" etc etc....?

....I have the tissues ready....

[Morlock 11]

In my opinion, there is not today, nor has there ever been, a film composer that is a much better composer than Howard Shore is.

On what grounds do you make this dubious claim, save for your own personal liking of Shore?

The Aviator album.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

And Se7en, The Fly and The Silence Of The Lambs

[Morlock 11]

The Aviator was the last Shore score I heard, and, on the album, I think it presents more of Shore's strengths than any other album of his.

[gkgyver 1,646]

So is there any reason left to go and see Kong ?

This was the worst decision on a movie score I've ever witnessed. And I've seen the Batman Begins debacle, heard Yared's Troy and lived through Episode II.

This is like Lucas announcing Williams was dropped because he didn't deliver.

[APBez 11]

Thinking about TTT DVD feature, I remember PJ wanting something "hummable" for the Rohan theme and Shore not delivering immediately. His first crack at the the end titles song for ROTK - "Use Well The Days" - got a big thumbs down too. Perhaps for these films there was enough material to work with and develop from the FOTR to dilute any dissatisfaction with Shore's ideas. Just a thought.

No no.

There were never problems with the Rohan theme mentioned. Jackson just tells an anecdote that he told Shore he wanted hummable themes for the second film as well, and that some time later he (or rather, his wife) found himself humming the Rohan theme in the car.

The thing with Use Well the Days had mostly to do with the lyrics as I understand it. They used a poem from the book about new adventures, and it didn't feel like a proper ending. They later came up with Into the West, also inspired by the death of Cameron Duncan.

Just watched the feature again. The implication is clear. PJ says, "When Howard started playing me his ideas for the Rohan theme, I kept saying to him, "I'm humming the Fellowship theme from the first film and the Shire theme but I... (hesitates), you gotta create something that's hummable." The implication is that his original ideas weren't hummable enough and, in that sense at least, rejected.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

That's hardly unusual.

[Mr. Breathmask 555]

I don't see the implication at all. If anything, Jackson relates Shore's succes with enthusiasm.

[APBez 11]

Maybe I'm reading too much into it then, just looking for 'cracks' in their collaboration where there weren't. The point made that it's hardly unusual for composers/directors to exchange like this is fair too.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

The Aviator album.

And Se7en, The Fly and The Silence Of The Lambs

That would be your own personal liking, just like you, Morlock, said to . . . whoever that was.

I like JNH better because of:

-Peter Pan

-The Man in the Moon

-Dinosaur

-Signs

-The Village

-Waterworld

-Treasure Planet

-Hidalgo

So I'm more fond of JNH than Shore, and although I like some of Shore's themes and such from LotR very much, I think JNH is a better composer, and I think he'll do a wonderful job on King Kong. I suppose that is personal taste, but I guess liking any composer over another is a matter of personal taste.

~Sturgis

[Morlock 11]

So I'm more fond of JNH than Shore, and although I like some of Shore's themes and such from LotR very much, I think JNH is a better composer, and I think he'll do a wonderful job on King Kong.  I suppose that is personal taste, but I guess liking any composer over another is a matter of personal taste.

I was not talking about liking composers, but about a composer being better (or much better) that another. I like James Newton Howard more than Howard Shore, but to say that JNH is a much better composer is just plain not true.

The Aviator album.

And Se7en, The Fly and The Silence Of The Lambs

That would be your own personal liking, just like you, Morlock, said to . . . whoever that was.

IMO, you need to know the scores well. I don't believe that a person who knows The Aviator score can say Howard Shore is not an excellent composer, just like JNH with Signs. They are part of the upper echelon of film composers talent wise. Everyone has their preferences, but I don't think it's fair to say that this composer is much better than that one, simply because they like this composer more.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Sturgis, you clearly don't understand.

I'm not judging these scores in how well they play on CD but on how they work in their films.

Shore has a talent for creating scores that get under the skin of the film.

They may not always be "fun" to listen too, (in fact the LOTR scores are amongst Shores most accesible scores) but they really enhance the mood of the films he scores.

A lot of his scores are rather challenging to listen to on CD, so it's understandable that many people favour the more accesible and "safer" type of scoring that JNH tends to do.

[SturgisPodmore 0]

I addmittedly don't know a ton about Howard Shore, but from what I've heard, I think JNH is just as good a composer as Shore, in terms of actual talent or complexity, not who's someone's favorite.

~Sturgis

[Morlock 11]

That's what I'm saying. My point was 'best' and 'favorite' do not necasserily go together, and they sure as hell don't go together when comparing two artists output.

[Sandor 797]

Well; I am deeply dissappointed. I was really hoping that the Shore/Jackson collaboration would be the Williams/Spielberg type of thing for a new generation. I guess this blows that idea out of the water.

Oh and just my opinion, but I consider Shore's work for LOTR to be outstanding. I think it's great and definately more interesting than anything JNH has come up with.

To be honest; I don't really like James Newton Howard. Enjoyed parts of Signs, The Village, Dinosaur, but obviously he was placed second on Batman Begins and for good reason! Zimmer, no matter what you think of him, has a more distinct sound, more personality. His Batman Begins music was rightfully prefered by Nolan.

Howard just isn't very original IMHO. Sure he's a good composer, sure he knows more about orchestrations than Zimmer and all. But still; something's missing...

[Morlock 11]

I every once in a while think to myself "Is James Newton Howard really that good?" and I think through his filmography and think "wait, maybe he isn't as good as I thought".

Then I reach his collaboration with Shyamalan, and Signs in particular and say to myself something to the effect of "You bet you're ass he's as good as all that!".

[SturgisPodmore 0]

So you like Signs?

IMO, Roald, JNH has a very distinct sound, one of the most recognizable.

~Sturgis

[David Coscina 4]

Morlock, Shore is a very good film composer. As a composer of absolute music, I don't think he's the best out there by far.

Like Steef said, Shore gets under the skin of a film and there's been few cases where his music didn't have an amazing impact on the images. However, as pure music, I'll take Williams' music any day of the week. More counterpoint, greater harmonic variety, and just plain good. I've studied Williams conductors scores and they as complex in terms of the orchestration as a Strauss or Stravinsky concert work. Shore uses less lines and is more chord based, probably that stems from his jazz background. Thinking vertically rather than horizontally.

[Morlock 11]

I love Signs. A brilliant, one of a kind score. 'The Hand of Fate' is IMO JNH's greatest achievement to date, and one of the finest cues in the history of film music (both parts together).

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

Based on what I've heard, James Newton Howard is a better composer than Howard Shore, and regardless of whether or not that's truly the case, I certainly prefer JNH between the two. Regarding the effect of their music on films vs. "listenability," I believe the two aspects to be equally important. And if I had to choose, the selfish film music fan in me would choose enjoyability because, well, that's why I listen to music in the end. Regarding the two composers in question, I don't believe Shore to be any more capable than Howard at enhancing the mood of a film. And beyond that, I find JNH's music to be much more full of emotion, fun, and complexity. To each his own, of course, but for me there's no contest.

And comparing JNH to Zimmer?! I thought I'd seen it all!

Ray Barnsbury

[Marian Schedenig 8,211]

JNH certainly has MV tendencies at times (and apparently is good friends with Zimmer and Co). I like some of his scores a lot, and I only know a fraction of his whole output. But I still say that Kong is the movie that screams for a Shore score, and I've been waiting for expansion on the Shelob music. JNH might provide a nice score, but for this one, I doubt he'll come close to what Shore would have done.

Marian - who found the latest Batman score to be utterly unremarkable.

8O Willow (James Horner)

[SturgisPodmore 0]

I can hear no JNH at all in Batman Begins, save for parts of one or two tracks. It sounds like vintage Zimmer. "Two notes for a theme works great!"

Only with Jaws, Hans.

~Sturgis - Ray, get out of my mind! 8O

[Saxbabe 28]

I totally agree with Sturgis and Ray. Me and other JNH fans I know also don't hear him in Batman Begins at all except for the romance scenes. I think like, 1 1/2 tracks. Zimmer just asked him onto that film to be "friendly". Nolan originally picked just Zimmer.

It seems Zimmer has slowly sought (beginning with Waterworld in '95) to cultivate a friendship with JNH, maybe in hopes he could be assimilated. You know, kind of, like...the Borg? :?

I don't trust Zimmer, I think he's after him because MV has gotten so stale.

I can't believe I saw the statement that Zimmer had a more distinctive sound than James Newton Howard! Man, all Zimmer stuff sounds the same to me, and worse, not just him but his clone factory. (Although they often show their true talent when they do scores on their own.)

Anyhow, I personally think the Disney scores are some of Howard's best work. Treasure Planet is fabulous, a rather complex score. Dinosaur is still a dang exciting listen. "The Egg Travels" is the cue that really first got me into JNH.

He's versatile too, romance, adventure, urban drama, jazz,...and thrillers. His best area maybe. He's been doing thrillers since long before M. Night came along, and with him he honed his craft. Those scores are glued to the film. They get "under the skin" for me. Especially The Village and Signs. (I also think Signs is his best to date)

Howard also has scores that are very effective, but aren't easy listens, I found The Devil's Advocate and Flatliners to be challenging on album, but in film, both added an important supernatural element.

Some other lesser known ones that I feel got "under the skin" from him are Grand Canyon and, jeez...Snow Falling On Cedars. Now that's a d**n fine piece work if I've ever heard one. And it can certainly be a challenge on CD. But what it did for that film was unreal.

As for King Kong, it's an honor for him to be asked and I have no doubt JNH will turn out a ride of a score. I just wish he had longer to do it.

I feel bad for Shore, in this. He's a superb composer, such a talent, and I think he's been quite unfairly treated. Still a little horrified at how Jackson (or the studios) just tossed his hard work like it was an old newspaper. A lot of mixed feelings. 8O

Greta - bringer of smack

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Tell me more about Dinosaur, I've seen it in stores, but I'm not sure about it.

[batmanand 0]

Peter Pan is a better score than anything - bar perhaps LOTR - Shore hs ever written. It is in some ways a shame that Hook was so damned amazing, cos otherwise JNH could have all the glory.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

I feel bad for Shore, in this. He's a superb composer, such a talent, and I think he's been quite unfairly treated. Still a little horrified at how Jackson (or the studios) just tossed his hard work like it was an old newspaper. A lot of mixed feelings.  8O

I think there might be more to the story. It wouldn't surprise me if it was a mutual agreement that Shore should leave the project - he might have a little more integrity than what we're giving him. One side of me says that he should be free to do what he feels is right with his score, but the other says that a composer should be versatile and learn to adapt to what different directors want for their movie. It's a two-way street, and I think we've only heard one side.

[Morlock 11]

Tell me more about Dinosaur, I've seen it in stores, but I'm not sure about it.

It's got 6-7 cues of fantastic material. I don't like the album all the way through, but it's worht getting for those 6-7 cues.

[Sandor 797]

It's got 6-7 cues of fantastic material. I don't like the album all the way through, but it's worht getting for those 6-7 cues.

Actually; it's worth getting it for just one track: The Egg Travels. If I want to let other people hear how great film music can be I always include that track. It's fantastic!

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

I love that track too.

[Ray Barnsbury 8]

"The Courthsip" is just as fantastic, and perhaps even more exciting in a different way.

Ray Barnsbury

[fommes 153]

One side of me says that he should be free to do what he feels is right with his score, but the other says that a composer should be versatile and learn to adapt to what different directors want for their movie.

I would like to rephrase the first part of your sentence. Just like that a composer should be versatile, a director should sometimes (I'm not saying in this case) learn to adapt to what the chosen composer wants for the former's movie?