The John Williams Jurassic Park Collection from La-La Land MUSIC Discussion

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Whats Rialto Ripples?

[Incanus 5,715]

 

Just now, Stefancos said:

Whats Rialto Ripples?

Ripples on the new set. Rialto Ripples is the cue's original name.

[Jay 37,364]

Ah yes Luke I remember now!  I doubt it was an intentional homage to Dennis Steals The Embryos, but it is a nice little connection, for sure!

[Incanus 5,715]

3 minutes ago, Jay said:

Rialto Ripples is a really cool six minute piece of music for sure.

 

But does anything else think it ends kind of weirdly?  Almost like it was meant to segue into something else, maybe something he never wrote, because it doesn't segue into Heading North for sure.  Is there a deleted scene from around this area of the film?

Do you mean High Bar and Ceiling Tiles oddly quiet ending Jay? Because Ripples doesn't precede Heading North.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

3 minutes ago, Incanus said:

 

Ripples on the new set. Rialto Ripples is the cue's original name.

 

Could I ask the Moderators to actually stick to the names as they have been officially released and not promote the use of obscure track names on leaked sheet music?

 

Thank you.

[Jay 37,364]

Haha sorry, I was listening to Heading North as I typed that and then mistyped!

No, I think the ending of High Bar and Ceiling Tiles is fine, and love the way Heading North sounds coming after it

 

 

I think the ending of Rialto Ripples is a bit odd, and wonder if it was meant to segue into some deleted scene that would have taken place before "Steiner In The Grass"

[Incanus 5,715]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Haha sorry, I was listening to Heading North as I typed that and then mistyped!

No, I think the ending of High Bar and Ceiling Tiles is fine, and love the way Heading North sounds coming after it

 

 

I think the ending of Rialto Ripples is a bit odd, and wonder if it was meant to segue into some deleted scene that would have taken place before "Steiner In The Grass"

I feel the abrupt ending is meant to enhance the subsequent waterfall scene which is left unscored, literally coming to a halt as the survivors reach the cave beyond the waterfall with T-Rex attacking right after, the score disappearing into the sound effects of the panicking fleeing people and dinosaur sounds.

[Jay 37,364]

OK thanks; It's been ages since I've seen the movie and didn't remember any details.

 

So perhaps originally it was felt the waterfall scene would be scored, and Rialto Ripples was going to segue into it.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

17 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

I think the ending of Rialto Ripples is a bit odd, and wonder if it was meant to segue into some deleted scene that would have taken place before "Steiner In The Grass"

 

Seriously? Are you now just taking the piss?

[Disco Stu 15,495]

They've been living with the cue names for so many years I think they just can't stop now!

[Incanus 5,715]

9 minutes ago, Disco Stu said:

They've been living with the cue names for so many years I think they just can't stop now!

Exactly! Plus I happen to like the original witty cue titles. But I'll refrain from using them so as not to confuse people who have bought this new set.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thank you.

 

I hope Jason will follow your example.

[Jay 37,364]

I always use John Williams' original cue names when ever possible.  Or any other composer, for that matter

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

4 minutes ago, Jay said:

I always use John Williams' original cue names when ever possible.  Or any other composer, for that matter

 

It's snobbish, unnecessary and confusing to others. Perhaps you should consider retiring that habit.

[Damien F 1,742]

I actually wish the Rescuing Sarah track was called Truck Stop for this release.

 

I've always associated Rescuing Sarah with that missing minute of music, and Truck Stop with the full cue.

[Jay 37,364]

I think they legally have to use album names when the only cues used in the track are the same on a new version, even if those cues are now edited differently

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

the really cool and awesome cello / fender bass line from "Reading the map".

[Jay 37,364]

I love that bit!

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

oh and the beginning of "Fire at Camp" sounds like it's building up the Resistance Theme from TFA, right? 

[JWMike 117]

Had two spins of TLW now. Like a lot of people it's not a film or score I know well but I'm liking what I'm hearing. Johnny's unused faster end credits is kinda weird but in a fun, infectious way! All in all a great release for sure.

[crocodile 8,013]

What's really interesting about TLW is that it is not one of those scores that relies heavily on thematic development (other than the ascending island motif) but it is engaging all the way through nonetheless. Even the suspenseful underscore is interesting.

 

Karol

[King Mark 3,631]

I never found Lost World as interesting as all his other blockbuster adventure scores and the expansion hasn't really changed my mind. But I admit some of the unreleased music is better than what was on the OST.

 

I rank it higher than Minority Report and War of the Worlds , but lower than  the original JP, all the  Indy scores,all the Potters and all the Star Wars OT and PT

[Damien F 1,742]

56 minutes ago, crocodile said:

What's really interesting about TLW is that it is not one of those scores that relies heavily on thematic development (other than the ascending island motif) but it is engaging all the way through nonetheless. Even the suspenseful underscore is interesting.

 

Karol

 

Yeah, his suspense building really shines through in this new release. That ascending island voice theme is really the glue that holds the score together from a thematic viewpoint.

 

59 minutes ago, king mark said:

I rank it higher than Minority Report and War of the Worlds , but lower than  the original JP, all the  Indy scores,all the Potters and all the Star Wars OT and PT

 

I agree with that ranking except AOTC. I appreciate that score more than most but TLW has a higher level of consistent entertainment for me. And ranking TLW below Indy, Potter, Star Wars is certainly not a bad reflection on TLW. Those are all exceptional scores.

 

From a contemporary viewpoint, TLW is better than any score released in 2016 so far.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

1 hour ago, king mark said:

I never found Lost World as interesting as all his other blockbuster adventure scores and the expansion hasn't really changed my mind. But I admit some of the unreleased music is better than what was on the OST.

 

I rank it higher than Minority Report and War of the Worlds , but lower than  the original JP, all the  Indy scores,all the Potters and all the Star Wars OT and PT

 

??

 

The Lost World is a great score. I prefer it to Jurassic Park, like the film, but I think they're both great.

 

l love all the seemingly random Williams brass throughout. I've noticed it a lot in the new complete presentation. There are occasional motifs, but it's a lot of really chaotic random brass playing. Williams makes it work, somehow. It not only works, it's amazing. It's played with such force, it demands your attention. It's almost like he's musically channeling the cries of the dinosaurs. This score is a beast.

[Datameister 2,043]

That's one of the striking differences between the two scores, IMO. The original is about people's reactions to dinosaurs. The sequel is about the dinosaurs themselves, and the jungle they inhabit.

[Jay 37,364]

Well said! 

[Holly Martins 3]

11 minutes ago, Datameister said:

That's one of the striking differences between the two scores, IMO. The original is about people's reactions to dinosaurs. The sequel is about the dinosaurs themselves, and the jungle they inhabit.

 

[Incanus 5,715]

I think Stefan said earlier that The Lost World is one of JW's jazziest scores and I have agree. There is aleatory in the writing of course which gives it the feel of organized chaos at times but there is also a general feel throughout of a sort of improvisation on Williams' part, the channelling of something very unpredictable and primal into the music be it sheer feelings of panic and terror or suspense or action.

 

Not to mention it's all so groovy angel baby yeah!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I wonder if that latin jazz, calypso writing was deliberate, or was it accidentally created because the percussive, tribal vibes activated some dormant jazz vibes from his pianist days!

 

Speaking of jazz, the first half of Reading The Map, that's pure 70's film music funk! Like Jerry Fielding, Lalo Schifrin cool!

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

I feel like The Lost World has some major similarities to Temple of Doom, even if you don't realize it. "Molaram's Speech" is the precursor to The Lost World's signature sound.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Part TOD, part Jaws, part Oliver Stone scores, part jazz, part Max Steiner = Pure John Williams!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

OK some notes. It's a shame that we didnt get a track by track analysis so Mattessino could say when each theme and motif is used.

 

The baby theme (baby stego is wrong because is used more for the T-Rex anyway...) is used a lot, with every appearence of the baby dinosaurs:

 

Baby stego scene in The Stegosaurus

Nick and Sarah Liberate the baby trike, pachycephalosaurus and bay stego, 2:20 in Spilling petrol and Horning In

Nick liberates the Baby t-Rex, 4:18 in Spilling petrol and Horning In

Baby rex scene in the trailer

Baby Rex  found in the San Diego Compound in Visitor in San Diego

Unused Finale in Tranquilizer dart

 

And I believe Williams makes a joke using it in Fire at Camp for Kelly's revelation, she is a hatchling too after all

 

 

And about the TLW theme,  that Williams opens and closes the Isla Sorna scenes, he still references it again, in Tranquilizer Dart when the rexes are being transported back to the island.

 

 

[steb74 53]

On 12/8/2016 at 10:15 PM, Luke Skywalker said:

0:39-0:51, 1:34-1:46

It sound familiar. Maybe from the prequels?

You're probably thinking of 'Riding The Lizard' from ROTS

[Loert 2,511]

12 hours ago, Incanus said:

There is aleatory in the writing of course which gives it the feel of organized chaos at times but there is also a general feel throughout of a sort of improvisation on Williams' part, the channelling of something very unpredictable and primal into the music be it sheer feelings of panic and terror or suspense or action.

 

Yes, I agree. I think many parts of the score, but especially the last part of "Visitor in San Diego", sound like the orchestra improvising a series of action "licks" over a drum rhythm (though of course it's Williams' composition).   

 

 

You have the trumpets entering with some simple repeated notes, followed by a short flair by the horns - almost like the players are warming up. After that, the playing gets busier, with the underlying rhythm getting louder and louder with a few variations thrown in here and there. It's the kind of thing you might expect from a musical improvisation. 

[Incanus 5,715]

2 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

OK some notes. It's a shame that we didnt get a track by track analysis so Mattessino could say when each theme and motif is used.

 

The baby theme (baby stego is wrong because is used more for the T-Rex anyway...) is used a lot, with every appearence of the baby dinosaurs:

 

Baby stego scene in The Stegosaurus

Nick and Sarah Liberate the baby trike, pachycephalosaurus and bay stego, 2:20 in Spilling petrol and Horning In

Nick liberates the Baby t-Rex, 4:18 in Spilling petrol and Horning In

Baby rex scene in the trailer

Baby Rex  found in the San Diego Compound in Visitor in San Diego

Unused Finale in Tranquilizer dart

 

And I believe Williams makes a joke using it in Fire at Camp for Kelly's revelation, she is a hatchling too after all

 

 

And about the TLW theme,  that Williams opens and closes the Isla Sorna scenes, he still references it again, in Tranquilizer Dart when the rexes are being transported back to the island.

 

 

Could you provide timestamps for this "Baby Dinosaur" theme for each of those cues. I have a hard time recognizing these appearances.

 

As for the rest of the themes you could always try my unofficial but still quite researched analysis.  

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

*(this was suppossed to continue loert's post, but a wild Inky appeared!)

 

We know that for the more suspense-like sections (like Compys in this particular case) Williams likes to give the players a certain range of pitch and make them play around with that. And the percussion seems to have a specific pattern, but as long as they keep the tempo, they can insert little variations wherever they want.

 

Also, this particular score seems to have been tracked with a certain Silvestri influence (Predator 2 comes to mind with The Raptors Appear) and we know that there was a fair share of improvisation for that score too, particularly with the solo woodwind material.

 

And I wonder if once the percussion kicked in, Williams only marked the entrances of the instruments or some particular hit-points here and there instead of conducting the whole thing. Almost seems like he could kick back and enjoy the fun.

[Incanus 5,715]

18 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said:

*(this was suppossed to continue loert's post, but a wild Inky appeared!)

 

[Loert 2,511]

Nope, every single note from the main orchestra is included in the score!  My idea of it is that Williams approached the composition like an improvisation. But as for the drums, only their basic rhythm is marked, with the specific drum ensemble to be used written on the side (timbale side, tabla, bongo & toms) and the marking "Latino" written above:

 

 

Variations within that ensemble don't seem to be marked anywhere...

 

But yeah, in some aleatoric parts of the score Williams only writes the range and the instruments are specified to play stuff within that range. An example of that is the last ~20 seconds of "The Island's Voice", in the strings (when the timpani kicks in).

 

EDIT: Too late! 

[Jilal 569]

Wish there was a Latino switch in Cubase.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

40 minutes ago, Incanus said:

 

 

Clever ink.

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

1 hour ago, Incanus said:

Could you provide timestamps for this "Baby Dinosaur" theme for each of those cues. I have a hard time recognizing these appearances.

 

As for the rest of the themes you could always try my unofficial but still quite researched analysis.  

stegosaurus 2:40-4:00
fire at camp 0:39-0:55
Spilling petrol and Horning in 2:20-2:43 and 4:20-4:29
In the trailer 0:43-1:52
Visitor in San Diego 2:48-2:59
Tranquilizer dart 2:25-end (in the strings) probably this is a strech, but the eerie music it similar

[Damien F 1,742]

55 minutes ago, Luke Skywalker said:

stegosaurus 2:40-4:00
fire at camp 0:39-0:55
Spilling petrol and Horning in 2:20-2:43 and 4:20-4:29
In the trailer 0:43-1:52
Visitor in San Diego 2:48-2:59
Tranquilizer dart 2:25-end (in the strings) probably this is a strech, but the eerie music it similar

 

What about 2:00 in 'Rescuing Sarah' on the brass?

 

I also hear it in 'Reading The Map' at 1:22

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

Does anyone else hear a similarity between 5:55 in "T-Rex Rescue & Finale" and 2:14/2:54 in "High Bar and Ceiling Tiles"? I can't not hear it.

[Incanus 5,715]

12 hours ago, Luke Skywalker said:

stegosaurus 2:40-4:00
fire at camp 0:39-0:55
Spilling petrol and Horning in 2:20-2:43 and 4:20-4:29
In the trailer 0:43-1:52
Visitor in San Diego 2:48-2:59
Tranquilizer dart 2:25-end (in the strings) probably this is a strech, but the eerie music it similar

Hmmm I am not quite convinced all these are the appearance of the same theme. It is a bit a nebulous idea to begin with on the Stegosaurus track where the motif repeats but always develops a bit differently after each variation. The In the Trailer cue contains a very clear repetition of the idea in the strings numerous times but those other variations you mention are not quite as convincing.

 

Either that or I am losing my powers of theme perception. NOOOOOooooooo!!!!  

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

This time i dont think it is a coincidence that everytime a baby dinosaur apears in the screen the 'goshtly eerie music' is used by Williams.

 

Tranquilizer dart and Fire at camp OK, dont count them. The rest yes.

[Datameister 2,043]

Yeah, it's Williams creating a "theme" out of a general sound, rather than a specific melody. The association with the baby dinosaurs is clear though.

[Incanus 5,715]

Yes I agree with you both on that. It is rather like with the Compys that are represented by specific soundscape and performing techniques rather than a straightforward melody.

 

And yes the film gives pretty good clues on this stuff.  

[Incanus 5,715]

Not surprisingly I have been doing a lot of listening to the Lost World. There is so much going on.  E.g. In the Trailer where the percussion opens the piece with brass and then the string section joins in with the "animal sound" synthesizer and slowly melts into the high strings and synthesizer reading of the Baby Dinosaur theme with those rhythmic woodwinds bubbling underneath. So cool stuff and almost entirely rhythmic and textural. And it went unused in the film which makes me doubly glad we got this set so we can hear this terrific writing.

 

On the Glass is a powerhouse of tension with those zigzagging panicky skittering string figures and keening brass howls followed by the superbly jazzy and percussive "preparation" music. Oh those groovy piano passages heard throughout coupled with the percussion rhythms.

[Henry Sítrónu 494]

I've just seen The Lost World in a small neighborhood cinema in Berlin. The building used to be a slaughterhouse of the Prussian Army in the 19th century  

Anyway, it was an original 35mm copy and the sound was AWESOME. You could here almost every note.

[Datameister 2,043]

3 hours ago, Incanus said:

Not surprisingly I have been doing a lot of listening to the Lost World. There is so much going on.  E.g. In the Trailer where the percussion opens the piece with brass and then the string section joins in with the "animal sound" synthesizer and slowly melts into the high strings and synthesizer reading of the Baby Dinosaur theme with those rhythmic woodwinds bubbling underneath. So cool stuff and almost entirely rhythmic and textural. And it went unused in the film which makes me doubly glad we got this set so we can hear this terrific writing.

 

On the Glass is a powerhouse of tension with those zigzagging panicky skittering string figures and keening brass howls followed by the superbly jazzy and percussive "preparation" music. Oh those groovy piano passages heard throughout coupled with the percussion rhythms.

 

On the Glass - like much of TLW - is filled with such interesting moments. One of the highlights of the unreleased music, IMO, though there are many.