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SPOILER TALK - The Last Jedi (open spoilers allowed!!!)

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1 hour ago, Jay said:

Wow really?  There are ton of laugh out loud moments in TFA and TLJ!  They handled the humor in both very well I thought.

 

I thought 90% of the humour in TFA and TLJ shows just how little these people know about how to integrate humour into a Star Wars film. A gag about whether Rey has a cute boyfriend or not, or Luke tickling Rey's hand and telling her it's the force are dreadful failures at humour. They painfully stand out like "look how funny this is!!! Look!!!" Only tiny moments of humour work in those films, such as BB8 giving a thumbs up with his lighter. 

 

The humour in the original trilogy was born out of the characters and the moments they were caught in. For example;

 

3P0: "Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." 

Han: "Not entirely stable? Well I'm glad you're around to tell us these things. Chewie, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive." Is effortless and brilliant.

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I'm looking forward to Finn getting electric shocked by something again in Episode 9 and for the scene to turn into something from an awful sitcom. "I can't feel my teeth! What did you shoot me with?!" *insert laugh track*

 

 

Can someone explain to me what the point of Finn getting hurt in TFA was? It led to nothing in TLJ? When Han was frozen in carbonite, it was in case Ford didn't return, but it still led somewhere. The entire Jabba subplot was resolved and we saw a more powerful Luke as a result. 

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36 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

 

 

 

Can someone explain to me what the point of Finn getting hurt in TFA was? It led to nothing in TLJ? When Han was frozen in carbonite, it was in case Ford didn't return, but it still led somewhere. The entire Jabba subplot was resolved and we saw a more powerful Luke as a result. 

 

 

He was hurt so Rey could get the saber. At least he didn’t lose a limb like most of the duels in Star Wars history. 

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I enjoyed TLJ but Finn is pointless. He contributed nothing to the entire film. He was about to give his life to save the final few rebels hiding in the base, which would have given his character a meaningful accomplishment, and the moment was quite emotional as Williams scored his suicidal final flight into the weapon, aaaaand then they had to have Rose ruin it and save him with a cheesy line about winning by saving loved ones instead of stopping bad guys. Completely missed opportunity for some real emotion and purpose behind Finn.

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These are rather pointlessly nitpicky problems, but I'm not sure if Johnson even read his own script to be honest. Leia did the Superman thing, but they were trapped at the end because of some rocks...why didn't Leia just move them. They said there was only one way out the old base, yet everyone was outside in trenches, then somehow got back inside. Also Phasma's armour is blaster-proof, but she surrended to Finn on Starkiller base in TFA when he held a blaster at her... sometimes I wonder if the filmmakers and Disney were awake when making some choices.

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2 minutes ago, Tom said:

I think it is somewhat implied that Kylo saved her.  

 

Wut.

 

Just now, leeallen01 said:

What...? Leia opens her eyes, stretches out her hand, and pulls herself back in. Kylo had nothing to do with it.

 

Yep.

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1 hour ago, leeallen01 said:

The humour in the original trilogy was born out of the characters and the moments they were caught in. For example;

 

3P0: "Sir, it's quite possible this asteroid is not entirely stable." 

Han: "Not entirely stable? Well I'm glad you're around to tell us these things. Chewie, take the professor in the back and plug him into the hyperdrive." Is effortless and brilliant.

 

Exactly. But Ford's trademark sarcasm does half the work.

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I've been thinking more about the humour and it's actually starting to bug me because I really enjoyed the film.

 

Humour that worked for me:

- BB8

- Leia/Poe interactions

- Yoda page turner etc

- Luke tickling Rey's hand

- Luke telling R2 to "watch his language"

 

Humour that just... ugh... cringe:

- The caretakers

- The Porgs for the most part

- Rey asking Kylo to put a shirt on

- Poe/Hux interaction at the beginning

- Projection Luke dusting off his shoulder after Kylo fired the canons at him

- C3PO - The character is just there for the hell of it now

 

It's a shame because the humour that worked was genuinely quite funny. Unfortunately the rest was incredibly forced.

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23 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Leia did the Superman thing, but they were trapped at the end because of some rocks...why didn't Leia just move them.

 

It's not made explicit in the movie, but Johnson noted that the space moment was an instinctual moment of unexpected strength, like when a parent can pick up a car to save their child.  Not a bearing of any sort of training.  So Leia presumably would not be able to do that on command.

 

25 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

They said there was only one way out the old base, yet everyone was outside in trenches, then somehow got back inside.

 

We see how the people in trenches get back in after somebody dives back into the trenches.  Poe?  Don't remember who it was. They duck into holes within the trenches.  So exiting by the trenches instead of the front door would still put them in the same place (in front of the cave and in front of the AT-ATs or whatever the new ones are called.

 

28 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Also Phasma's armour is blaster-proof, but she surrended to Finn on Starkiller base in TFA when he held a blaster at her.

 

Maybe it's less blaster-proof at close/point blank range.  Not sure about this one!

 

3 minutes ago, Alex said:

- Projection Luke dusting off his shoulder after Kylo fired the canons at him

 

This may be the one "humor" thing you listed that bugged me - although I didn't consider it humor at the time, and thought the intent was to read "badass."  It didn't seem particularly Lukey to me - either in his OT incarnation or his TLJ one.

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Just a minor observation. How did Rose and Finn survive? They had a conversation and a kiss together RIGHT INFRONT OF THE FIRST ORDER WALKERS! Why didn't they just kill them. Then Finn dragged Rose about 5 miles back to the base, judging by the time it took the skimmer fighters to fly over the salt flats.

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6 minutes ago, Alex said:

I've been thinking more about the humour and it's actually starting to bug me because I really enjoyed the film.

 

Humour that worked for me:

- BB8

- Leia/Poe interactions

- Yoda page turner etc

- Luke tickling Rey's hand

- Luke telling R2 to "watch his language"

 

Humour that just... ugh... cringe:

- The caretakers

- The Porgs for the most part

- Rey asking Kylo to put a shirt on

- Poe/Hux interaction at the beginning

- Projection Luke dusting off his shoulder after Kylo fired the canons at him

- C3PO - The character is just there for the hell of it now

 

It's a shame because the humour that worked was genuinely quite funny. Unfortunately the rest was incredibly forced.

 

Gentlemen, finally a guy who takes his Star Wars jokes seriously! 

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14 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

And how is i. e. the hand-tingling not exactly that? 

 

Because it was idiotic forced humour. It treated Rey as an absolute imbecile and Luke as a jokey bloke, yet 2 mins earlier he wanted her to piss off and leave him alone.

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Humor is the most subjective element of any film, but the question is whether it grows out of the situation. Prank-call jokes that go on for WAY too long, to name just one, do not.

 

P. S. If Abrams chooses to go forward with the underlying dynamic that Rey seeing Kylo shirtless seems to suggest - I'd punch the screen.

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6 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

@publicist

 

What? Humour isn't always met with a laugh. Humour is meant to be amusing. Jokes are for sitcoms. Humour is what makes something lighthearted and fun. The original trilogy has humour, not jokes. This new trilogy has jokes, not humour.

 

And the prequels had....now what? Stop taking these kid's movies seriously like they were holy scriptures.

 

#straw-grasping stage of SW thread waiting to die

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6 minutes ago, publicist said:

And the prequels had....now what? Stop taking these kid's movies seriously like they were holy scriptures.

 

The prequels? since when do two wrongs make a right?

 

Oh, and the original is a kids film, alright. These latest ones, though, are four-quadrant movies. They may still aim at a relatively young core demographic, hence they're not the most adult-oriented franchise of genre film, but still. Kids films they are not, now.

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2 minutes ago, publicist said:

 

And the prequels had....now what? Stop taking these kid's movies seriously like they were holy scriptures.

 

#straw-grasping stage of SW thread waiting to die

 

 

*someone makes a film.

*people discuss it.

*some flaws are found.

*someone comes in and says stop taking things seriously.

 

Do you work for Disney?

 

If we don't take things seriously, then what's the point of anything? 

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33 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

Just a minor observation. How did Rose and Finn survive? They had a conversation and a kiss together RIGHT INFRONT OF THE FIRST ORDER WALKERS! Why didn't they just kill them. Then Finn dragged Rose about 5 miles back to the base, judging by the time it took the skimmer fighters to fly over the salt flats.

 

 

Speaking of walkers, those new walkers were certainly a waste. They didn’t really do anything. 

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Don't you see? Rian Johnson subverted your expectations once again! There you were thinking the Walkers be put to good use, and they weren't!

 

Really, this film was too focused on surprising the audience with twist after twist. Think back to your favorite movies: how many outright twists do they pull on the viewer? There is drama to the inevitable. There is suspense to information that the audience knows but the characters do not (at least if Alfred Hitchcock is to be believed). Not everything in a movie needs to be a surprise.

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14 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

 

 

Speaking of walkers, those new walkers were certainly a waste. They didn’t really do anything. 

 

11 minutes ago, Chen G. said:

Don't you see? Rian Johnson subverted your expectations once again! 

 

Really, this film was too focused on surprising the audience with twist after twist. Think back to your favorite movies: how many outright twists do they hold? There is drama to the inevitable. There is suspense to information that the audience knows but the characters do not (at least if Alfred Hitchcock is to be believed). Not everything in a movie needs to be a surprise.

 

If you really actually think about it properly, Johnson made no risks at all. Everything was pointless.

 

- Leia died, oh wait she didn't.

- Kylo is good, oh wait he's not.

- Rey is the most powerful...oh wait Snoke just owned her.

- Snoke is the most powerful...oh wait no Kylo just easily fooled him.

- Luke is dead, oh wait he's a projection, oh wait he's dead, but not really.

- Finn and Rose are going to turn off the tracker, oh wait they're not.

- DJ is a good guy, oh wait he's bad, or is he just neutral?

- The entire resistance is destroyed, but I guess they're not.

- The walkers are going to attack the base, oh I guess not.

- Holdo seems a bit dodgy and could be bad, oh wait she's not.

- Rey isn't atuned to the force yet, oh I guess she is now.

- Rey is great with a lightsaber, oh wait now she's bad, no wait she took out those red guards.

 

Johnson did nothing by doing everything.

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5 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

If you really actually think about it properly, Johnson made no risks at all. Everything was pointless.

 

- Leia died, oh wait she didn't.

- Kylo is good, oh wait he's not.

- Rey is the most powerful...oh wait Snoke just owned her.

- Snoke is the most powerful...oh wait no Kylo just easily fooled him.

- Luke is dead, oh wait he's a projection, oh wait he's dead, but not really.

- Finn and Rose are going to turn off the tracker, oh wait they're not.

- DJ is a good guy, oh wait he's bad, or is he just neutral?

- The entire resistance is destroyed, but I guess they're not.

- The walkers are going to attack the base, oh I guess not.

- Holdo seems a bit dodgy and could be bad, oh wait she's not.

- Rey isn't atuned to the force yet, oh I guess she is now.

- Rey is great with a lightsaber, oh wait now she's bad, no wait she took out those red guards.

 

Johnson did nothing by doing everything.

 

Well analysed!

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18 minutes ago, El Jefe said:

 

 

Speaking of walkers, those new walkers were certainly a waste. They didn’t really do anything. 

 

Speaking of walkers, how on earth did they get down there? There were some on Snoke’s cut-in-half ship, so there could have been some on the remaining Star Destroyers I guess, but how were they delivered? 🤔

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The entire movie falls apart if you start picking at it.  This is true of a lot of movies, but when the main story is good enough you don't care about those things.  But in this case, the picking nits will go on forever methinks.

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13 minutes ago, leeallen01 said:

If we don't take things seriously, then what's the point of anything? 

 

Exactly. Go out and tend to more important things in life instead. And watch better movies, there are so many of them. 

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I enjoyed it believe it or not. I actually left the cinema satisfied. But if you analyse it and do really think about its place in the overall scheme of all things Star Wars, it is terrible, as is TFA. The prequels are better solely for the enthralling story of the rise of palpatine. But I can be quite happy just liking TLJ as popcorn entertainment, while having another side of me that analyses everything to a large degree. I enjoy that side of things. It's fun to do.

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If only a tenth of that precious time people here find for overanalyzing kiddie fluff like this (20 paginations for this thread alone!) would be devoted to the many vacant threads about interesting non-blockbuster music or movies, the forum would thrive.

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Just now, publicist said:

If only a tenth of that precious time people here find for overanalyzing kiddie fluff like this (20 paginations for this thread alone!) would be devoted to the many vacant threads about interesting non-blockbuster music or movies, the forum would thrive.

 

People can talk about what they want. Stop undermining people's passions and interests because you don't share them. If you don't want to "talk about kiddie stuff," then leave this topic, because you're clearly a higher evolved human than we are.

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16 minutes ago, publicist said:

If only a tenth of that precious time people here find for overanalyzing kiddie fluff like this (20 paginations for this thread alone!) would be devoted to the many vacant threads about interesting non-blockbuster music or movies, the forum would thrive.

 

Instead of proselytizing in this thread, why don't you go talk to yourself and all your online friends in those other threads and make them more interesting? 

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For me, humor and comedic aspects in this movie were completely out of tone and shoe-horned for the most part.

 

2 hours ago, Alex said:

- Luke telling R2 to "watch his language"

 

I found that completely ridiculous. In TESB and ROTJ, Luke understood what Artoo said only when he was communicating through the simultaneous translator on the X-Wing. He probably mastered droid language during his time on the island? Or perhaps got lessons from Threepio? LOL.

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5 minutes ago, TownerFan said:

For me, humor and comedic aspects in this movie were completely out of tone and shoe-horned for the most part.

 

 

I found that completely ridiculous. In TESB and ROTJ, Luke understood what Artoo said only when he was communicating through the simultaneous translator on the X-Wing. He probably mastered droid language during his time on the island? Or perhaps got lessons from Threepio? LOL.

 

That's what the books in the tree were.  "The dummies guide to understanding droids" since Luke had nothing to do for all those years he was in exile.

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The message that everyone can use the Force would hardly be a surprising plot twist, given the ancient religious ideas Lucas obviously based the Star Wars concept of the Force, among other things, on. 

That other writers/directors would expand upon that is to be expected.

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