Harry Potter and the Goblet of Fire

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

I agree about the JP main theme. I think it only really works when the Brachiosaurs are first seen.

LOL its the main ussage of the theme.

Then its remembering petticoat lane and the finale in the helicopter. Both sad renditions.

So where is its un-fittness?

It is never used with the raptors, dilophosaurs, T-Rex or Neddry's Affairs.

It scores the awe Dinosaurs inspire on people, but not the terror they can become.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

The Jurassic Park score and it's themes are brilliant and anyone who claims otherwise is a mongol turd!

[Luke Skywalker 1,796]

The Jurassic Park score and it's themes are brilliant and anyone who claims otherwise is a mongol turd!

inDEED

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

That much is certain.

The painting depicts Peter denying Jesus 3 times. I thought all religious material was banned by the Kitomer Accord?

I thought it was Socrates.

Socrates denied Jesus 3 times?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Makes sense actually, considering he was born 469 BC......

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

That's what I thought.

[Hitch 57]

Australians were never very good with dates

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Not Peter, the Raptor!

[Charlie Brigden 7]

I agree about the JP main theme. I think it only really works when the Brachiosaurs are first seen.

LOL its the main ussage of the theme.

Then its remembering petticoat lane and the finale in the helicopter. Both sad renditions.

So where is its un-fittness?

It is never used with the raptors, dilophosaurs, T-Rex or Neddry's Affairs.

It scores the awe Dinosaurs inspire on people, but not the terror they can become.

It's because the scene doesn't go on for very long, and it works with it. I can't stand hearing the theme for an extended period as it gets old very fast, which is why I don't like the ending (well, also that it just seems really boring). I don't really like the film much either, so I'm not really that bothered about any of it.

[Hitch 57]

Not Peter, the Raptor!

To quote Ambassador Spock, "You are a complete idiot"

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

You're a stubborn man.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

He's Irish!

[Morlock 11]

I was lookied for something to listen to in the background and checked the whole interview out. It was a terrific interview, Tommy Pearson has a way of making the interviewees very comfortable and personable. I wish I liked Newell's movies more, but he came off as quite nice and quite generous. And the bit about JW seemed more like poor phrasing than him slagging of Williams. I seem to like controversial film-music related interviews (Like Horner's Troy interview). I'm with Alan on this one.

And the way he talked about how the studio wanted Hedwig's Theme made it seem like he didn't even want it in his film.

...but he went on to whistle the theme, which seemed quite charitable to me.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

Horner's interview wasn't controversial, it was downright rude and completely unprofessional IMO.

For those who haven't heard it, he spends ages going on about Troy and Yared, and says, and I quote: "how atrocious the music was", and how ill-equipped Yared was for doing a film like that. And also that even though Yared had spent a year on his score, Horner thought doing a better score in 10 days would be an exercise in seeing 'how much music I could write'.

The man's lost much of the respect I had.

[Morlock 11]

I had problems with some of what the man said, but I liked the interview a lot.

[Richard Penna 3,695]

Oh yeah it was a fascinating interview. It's just what he said that disgusts me.

[Morlock 11]

Well, I know that whenever dealing with Horner, I must remove several layers of ego before being to perhaps find something thought-worthy. And I thought he did raise a couple of valid points in there, despite his out-right rudeness in belittling Yared's aptitude.

[Koray Savas 2,251]

Yared's score is better.

[Morlock 11]

Yared's music is better. Much better. I don't think it's a better score for the film.

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

Well I've never heard it with the film, but it seemed to me few things can be less supportive of the (poor) film than Horner's score.

[Drew 590]

Why didn't I (and many others) hear about this Newell interview until now? It was universally common knowledge that Williams dropped out because of a scheduling issue with Memoirs of a Geisha. The conspiracy with JW's lack of involvement in this series keeps getting darker. Ahhhhhhh!

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

It's just a Harry Potter movie. No one cares anymore.

[Bilbo 3,709]

48 minutes ago, Drew said:

Why didn't I (and many others) hear about this Newell interview until now? It was universally common knowledge that Williams dropped out because of a scheduling issue with Memoirs of a Geisha. The conspiracy with JW's lack of involvement in this series keeps getting darker. Ahhhhhhh!

 

Does this Newell interview actually exist?

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

I'll believe it when I see it.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,553]

1 hour ago, Drew said:

Why didn't I (and many others) hear about this Newell interview until now? It was universally common knowledge that Williams dropped out because of a scheduling issue with Memoirs of a Geisha. The conspiracy with JW's lack of involvement in this series keeps getting darker. Ahhhhhhh!

 

It was common knowledge in 2004, that Newell didn't like JW's music, and wanted Doyle.

If Cauron was directing GOBLET OF FIRE, then JW would have been all over it, like a bug on shit.

"Scheduling issue" my ass.

[Drew 590]

13 minutes ago, Richard said:

 

It was common knowledge in 2004, that Newell didn't like JW's music, and wanted Doyle.

If Cauron was directing GOBLET OF FIRE, then JW would have been all over it, like a bug on shit.

"Scheduling issue" my ass.

 

I was six years old in 2004. 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Impossible... 2004 is in the future.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,553]

It's nice to know that whatever time in the world it is, at JWfan, it's always 1959 

[bollemanneke 3,352]

I think Doyle was a great choice for HP4, if only he hadn't dropped all of JW's themes. I'll never understand why they suddenly replace character themes, no point at all.

[crocodile 8,019]

On 09/01/2009 at 1:05 AM, Marian Schedenig said:

Well I've never heard it with the film, but it seemed to me few things can be less supportive of the (poor) film than Horner's score.

I think it is a bit...much:

 

 

Karol

 

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

13 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

I think Doyle was a great choice for HP4, if only he hadn't dropped all of JW's themes. I'll never understand why they suddenly replace character themes, no point at all.

 

Territoriality.

[crocodile 8,019]

I think it is better rather than apeing Williams. Nothing is more artistically offensive and bankrupt than that.

 

Karol

[Naïve Old Fart 9,553]

I agree, but 4-8 destroyed the musical continuity that JW had built-up, in 1-3.

[crocodile 8,019]

Williams did it himself with Azkaban.

 

Karol

[Naïve Old Fart 9,553]

You know you're gonna go straight to hell, for that one, don't you?

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

Hell* is not as bad as it sounds. It even has an airport!

 

*Hell is an actual place in Norway.

[Brundlefly 2,385]

I prefer hell over heaven, if they just play church and harp music in heaven and the Omen scores in hell.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

44 minutes ago, crocodile said:

Williams did it himself with Azkaban.

 

Karol

Agreed. As for the other composers, I don't understand why it's supposed to be artistically offensive and blah blah blah. If I wrote a HP score, I wouldn't jump up and down in anticipation to completely overhaul themes. I'd love to develop them. Voldemort's theme exists, so I'd use it.

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

6 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Voldemort's theme exists, so I'd use it.

 

Two of them.

[crocodile 8,019]

10 minutes ago, bollemanneke said:

Agreed. As for the other composers, I don't understand why it's supposed to be artistically offensive and blah blah blah. If I wrote a HP score, I wouldn't jump up and down in anticipation to completely overhaul themes. I'd love to develop them. Voldemort's theme exists, so I'd use it.

if someone spoke to you imitating your accent, syntax and vocabulary, would you be grateful that they pay homage to it? I don't think Williams is very fond of other people using his material. I think great artist encourage other people to develop their own voices and not to canibalize someone else's vocabulary. Notice that Williams tends to speak highly of composers who sound absolutely nothing like him.

 

Karol

[bollemanneke 3,352]

There's a difference between sounding like JW and using JW's themes. For example: why would Voldemort's 'big reveal theme when he's shown at the end of HP1' not work during his resurrection? It's the same guy, same story...

[Marian Schedenig 8,210]

Williams might be unhappy with other composers adapting his themes in their own ways, be it because they have different styles and techniques which make his themes less "his" themes, or because he might feel that some of the are not up to it and may end up trivialising his themes. If I understand @elvisjones's comments in the other thread correctly, it seems that Williams requested changes to be made to the preliminary RO score because it used too many of his themes, or perhaps too many of his themes in settings he wasn't happy with.

 

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

He probably became all woke after he noticed John Ottman doing some weird shit with his themes in Superman Returns.

[bollemanneke 3,352]

So are we to assume that JW is happy with every single theme statement he has ever had to write... ever?

[Jurassic Shark 12,091]

It seems so.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Bottom line for me is that Williams AND each subsequent composer established identities for new characters and story elements with every film that could have carried through but the opportunities were either missed entirely or, worse, were just rebooted with new themes.

 

Azkaban is a stylistic departure but I don't feel Williams spoiled thematic continuity. There wasn't much from the first two films that would have carried, melodically. A reference to the HWW or "Family Portrait" themes would have been nice but "Window to the Past" was a valuable thing as the first minor-key "emotional" theme to adjust to the growing melancholy tone. With 5 films left, I don't think it meant the other two had to be thrown out entirely nor that they would have been under his direction.

 

POA is an odd duck in that there's no Voldemort and establishes a lot of new characters so in the big picture, it could have been appropriate that the score generally carved its own identity apart from Hedwig's Theme. But then it just became the new normal. I get that nobody wanted to stick their fingers in someone else's pies too much and they had their own work to focus on but was it really that hard to avoid 6 or 7 Voldemort/Death Eater themes? Why a new whimsical Dobby theme when it really wasn't doing anything that Williams's wouldn't have done? And all those potential callbacks that just floated on by...Moaning Myrtle, Fawkes, Umbridge, Harry and Sirius, love themes...

 

It's not like the scores were that big of a departure from what Williams was doing. It'd be like if a new composer jumped on TFA and kept the same adventurous Star Wars sound and a leitmotivic approach including the main title fanfare, but inexplicably wrote their own theme for Leia? Why? And then another composer came onto TLJ and again wrote the same ol Williamsy shit but with a third theme for Leia and a second Resistance theme, and nothing returning for Rey or Kylo Ren. Like, at a certain point you just wish the composers would abandon that game altogether.

[Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488]

They should have gotten Horner to do GOF.

 

If you've never been on that stupid Diagon Alley ride, they actually associated Williams material such as three note loop with characters from the later movies. So you hear that when a miniature Voldemort on a screen attacks you. Sort of like an alternate universe where Williams did the later movies.

[crocodile 8,019]

2 hours ago, bollemanneke said:

There's a difference between sounding like JW and using JW's themes. For example: why would Voldemort's 'big reveal theme when he's shown at the end of HP1' not work during his resurrection? It's the same guy, same story...

Well why wouldn't the original Imperial theme work for Vader in Empire?

 

1 hour ago, bollemanneke said:

So are we to assume that JW is happy with every single theme statement he has ever had to write... ever?

That's not that hard to imagine, is it?

 

Karol

[bollemanneke 3,352]

Vader's original theme wasn't as good as the Imperial March.

[mrbellamy 6,293]

Well, also he committed fully to the march after ESB. It's easy enough to come up with excuses and retcon stuff if it's largely kept consistent. 

 

Like if Hooper and Desplat had stuck with Doyle's Voldemort theme, Potter fans could just say Williams's themes were pre-return and Doyle's was Voldy fully formed.

 

But after a certain point it just stopped being fun to keep track.