Star Trek is better than everything

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

It will still be slow and boring, unless "director's cut" means they trimmed it.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

It will still be slow and boring, unless "director's cut" means they trimmed it.

 

It means the original director, Robert Wise, trimmed it... two decades ago. You haven't heard about this?
 

Quote

It isn't often that an artist gets to revisit an old work, and ordinarily, I wouldn't consider it. Art, and especially film, which is an inherently collaborative medium, is not created in a vacuum. Rather, it results from a combination of forces and personalities, coupled with limitations of time, budget, and technology, which all converge in a way that is unique to a moment in time. Gene Roddenberry seemed to understand concepts like this, and he also believed, if STAR TREK is to be accepted as a mirror of his imagination, that time travel would one day be a reality. My experience in creating "The Director's Edition" of STAR TREK: THE MOTION PICTURE has come closer to that reality than I ever imagined.

 

STAR TREK was a prestigious film for Paramount Pictures, and their support was unswerving. Unfortunately, even they couldn't stop the clock from ticking, and as we began to assess the ambitious technological breakthroughs we were attempting, we gradually realized that it was going to be a race. Thanks to a dedicated cast and crew who worked far beyond the call of duty, we survived the chaos of our final weeks and delivered a movie on the date promised...December 7, 1979. We had removed several key dialogue scenes in order to accommodate our incoming effects work, but no time remained to work on properly balancing these two components.

 

Thanks once again to Paramount's support, we have been able to complete the film as "The Director's Edition." In addition to finding a new, and I feel, proper editorial balance for the film, we have also completed those effects shots and scenes which we had to abort in 1979, and have given the film a proper final sound mix. It has been an opportunity which I never believed would happen, and one for which I am grateful beyond words. Gene Roddenberry was right... time travel IS possible.

 

- Robert Wise

https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Star_Trek:_The_Motion_Picture_-_The_Director's_Edition_(DVD)

 

This cut of the film indeed was shorter than the theatrical cut...which is all the more remarkable considering they *added in* a bunch of scenes which had been left on the cutting room floor in the rush to prepare the original theatrical cut. Important character scenes like Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in sickbay after Spock is retrieved from his encounter with V'Ger! So yeah, they cut down a LOT of the most boring and useless stuff (the constant alarms and whatnot included, thankfully). It is a WAY better version of the movie which I highly recommend you check out if you've never seen it. I was always bored by the theatrical cut but I love the new cut. I recommend you wait to experience it in 4K though, for the first time... it may finally win you over to the movie.

 

Yavar

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

2 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Holy crap the 4K Star Trek: The Motion Picture Director's Cut is going to be amazing...

 

 

Yavar

Great shot, wrong music.

 

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

This cut of the film indeed was shorter than the theatrical cut...which is all the more remarkable considering they *added in* a bunch of scenes which had been left on the cutting room floor in the rush to prepare the original theatrical cut. Important character scenes like Kirk, Spock, and McCoy in sickbay after Spock is retrieved from his encounter with V'Ger! So yeah, they cut down a LOT of the most boring and useless stuff (the constant alarms and whatnot included, thankfully). It is a WAY better version of the movie which I highly recommend you check out if you've never seen it. I was always bored by the theatrical cut but I love the new cut. I recommend you wait to experience it in 4K though, for the first time... it may finally win you over to the movie.

Yes. Stuff they should have never have cut is

1/ Ilia healing Chekov

2/ Spock crying, and the "Is this all that I am?" line.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

3 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

So yeah, they cut down a LOT of the most boring and useless stuff (the constant alarms and whatnot included, thankfully).

 

Cool, didn't know that.

 

4 minutes ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I recommend you wait to experience it in 4K though, for the first time... it may finally win you over to the movie.

 

I'm missing 2 Ks.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

The sound mix is improved, as well.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

 

So the director's cut was originally made for TV (since the CGI was in low res)?

 

1 minute ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

The sound mix is improved, as well.

 

I've only got two loudspeakers.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

Even in 2.0, it's an improvement.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

8 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

So the director's cut was originally made for TV (since the CGI was in low res)?

 

 

I've only got two loudspeakers.

I think it was made for dvd without any consideration for high definition. I’m guessing the budget wasn’t there but looking forward to this one. Some of the effects improvements are well worth it - particularly when the crew go out of the Enterprise near the end where the original matt painting perspective is totally off. Although I love the epic scale of the original effects. It makes the Enterprise look genuinely huge and the same for V’Ger. It’s something of a disappointment that even though the newer movies have much better technology to render them, the sheer scale of the Enterprise isn’t conveyed half as effectively.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

12 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

So the director's cut was originally made for TV (since the CGI was in low res)?

 

No -- check out the link I included. It was specifically made for DVD, and yeah Paramount skimped on the budget a bit so the new CG effects were rendered in standard definition rather than high definition, alas. But now it looks like that will all be fixed. Robert Wise is no longer with us but most of the people who worked with him on the Director's Edition 20 years ago are still around like Mike Mattesino and David Fein, and they will be making this new and improved HD version.

 

14 minutes ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

The sound mix is improved, as well.

 

I mean, the theatrical cut was such a rush job and a mess, really. It's amazing it turned out as passable as it did. It really was essentially an unfinished film, when it was released...kinda like Explorers. Two of the biggest examples in Hollywood history where the need to meet a release date was put over the needs of the film.

 

Yavar

[Tallguy 3,395]

The one thing I really hope they fix is get rid of all of the Enterprise B sound effects. The Enterprise needed more background FX but they should have pulled it from TWOK. 

 

Of all of the second bites at the apple this is one of the better ones. They did a fairly good job of staying in 1979 with a few exceptions. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

1 hour ago, Yavar Moradi said:

Two of the biggest examples in Hollywood history where the need to meet a release date was put over the needs of the film.

...and STAR TREK V, and CE3K, and THE GODFATHER PT. III.

[Yavar Moradi 2,599]

I thought Star Trek V was more a case of Shatner being over-ambitious in terms of budget, and Paramount telling him he couldn't have more money to do the effects sequences as he'd envisioned. That and issues with the special effects house ultimately used for the film, obviously.

 

I'd be very happy for Paramount to give Shatner some money to do a Director's Edition of Star Trek V.

 

Yavar

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

7 hours ago, Yavar Moradi said:

I thought Star Trek V was more a case of Shatner being over-ambitious in terms of budget, and Paramount telling him he couldn't have more money to do the effects sequences as he'd envisioned. That and issues with the special effects house ultimately used for the film, obviously.

 

I'd be very happy for Paramount to give Shatner some money to do a Director's Edition of Star Trek V.

 

Yavar

Agreed. I find it funny that people are dismissive of STV. Didn’t Gene Roddenberry even go so far as to consider it not canon? To me it’s the closest to the original series of any of the original movies. It has some big themes and, done well, could have been an especially fine mixture of sci-fi action and philosophy on the existence of god and so forth. Although that was the film Jerry had in his head when we wrote the music for which we should all be grateful!

[Tallguy 3,395]

8 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

Agreed. I find it funny that people are dismissive of STV. Didn’t Gene Roddenberry even go so far as to consider it not canon? To me it’s the closest to the original series of any of the original movies. It has some big themes and, done well, could have been an especially fine mixture of sci-fi action and philosophy on the existence of god and so forth. Although that was the film Jerry had in his head when we wrote the music for which we should all be grateful!

 

It's a far more ambitious attempt than is recognized. But it's done so badly. On paper it should be at least OK. But I think (among other problems) that the success of the humor in IV meshed badly with Shatner's own sensibilities giving him license where he might not have felt he had it. (Scotty!) But it does have more Kirk, Spock, McCoy scenes than any of the other films, right?

 

The flip side is The Undiscovered Country which just on paper comes across as heavy handed and filled with what should have been place-holder dialog. ("They all look alike" is barely a step above "Crewman says something really offensive".) But something on screen makes it pop far more than it probably deserves.

 

Both of them make III look like a masterpiece. But I can watch VI. And I have a really really hard time watching V. (Listening? No problem.)

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

I'm working my way through STAR TREK: VOYAGER.

Geez, Louise! Seven of Nine can assimilate me, any time she wants! 

[Jay 37,368]

Brian Robbins and Alex Kurtzman are considering a four-quadrant “Star Trek” animated family movie taking inspiration from the acclaimed “Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse”

[Edmilson 7,465]

1 hour ago, Jay said:

Alex Kurtzman

[Disco Stu 15,495]

JJ and his acolytes ruin everything.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

He certainly does have a knack for turning everything he touches, into crap.

[Positivatee 327]

8 hours ago, Jay said:

a four-quadrant “Star Trek” animated family movie

 

What does this mean? In English. 

[Jay 37,368]

It means it has content that young, old, male, female will all enjoy

[Positivatee 327]

Ah. 

 

Then four quadrants is not enough. 

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

Howzabout 16 quadrants?

Male 

Female 

Young 

Old 

BAME 

WOKE 

L

G 

B 

T 

Q 

I 

+ 

Trans (or is that "+"?)

Non-binary (or is that "+"?) 

HZfans ? 

 

 

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I was reading the liner notes for the old FSM release The Ron Jones Project for TNG and it's kind of unbelievable that Kendall included the phrase "Given the suckitude of the recently released Star Trek V" in an officially licensed music release in 2010, like he was just posting on a message board or something.

 

Beside the lovely and professional notes we get from people like Jeff Bond, Jon Burlingame, and of course Mike Matessino, Kendall does not come off looking good IMO.

 

EDIT: I think this was only in the 'online version' of the liner notes actually (http://www.filmscoremonthly.com/notes/box05_afterword.html).  But still.  My point stands I think.

[Jay 37,368]

Yes, the notes at that link only exist on that website, and are not in the physical product

[Disco Stu 15,495]

So I guess it really is more like a post on a message board!  

[Jay 37,368]

Yea

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

A bit of a fanboy turn of phrase for sure... although it gives me an opportunity to note my appreciation for The Final Frontier which I quite a soft spot for. Maybe it's just nostalgia, maybe it's Jerry's terrific score, but I still find much to enjoy. I certainly don't understand those who find it a silly story and try to pretend it never happened (including, if I remember correctly, Roddenberry himself) - in many ways the concept and story is closest to the original series of all the movies; deluded individual goes to find god who turns out to be a benevolent alien - that's about as Star Trek as it gets!

 

It's also very much a standalone movie and little in the way of monumental implications for the Star Trek universe - you can't imagine them doing a TOS episode where they made peace with the Klingons, for example. However, I could imagine TOS having an episode where Spock found out he had a half brother (who, in classic "old school" TV style, never appeared or was mentioned ever again). With a better director (arguably - I think too much is lumped at William Shatner's but he was fairly hamstrung by the budget, the pacing and character moments are generally very effective even if some of the humour is a bit broad), a bigger budget (fix some of those ropey Enterprise FX and a more effectively rendered finale), it could have been a really great movie.

 

As I've said before, Jerry's score rises above the material and gives the film a level of grandeur (notably the Sha Ka Ree sections) that the visuals, in particular, don't really have on their own. It's the absence of this aspect that will always make his TNG movie scores just that bit less interesting. Sure, his First Contact theme is terrific, but it doesn't really make many appearances outside the opening titles and finale. The Insurrection theme is pretty but fairly slight and most of the new material in Nemesis is darker anyway. Perhaps it's just me that thinks Star Trek movies should occasionally have a little awe and wonder in them rather than just be sci-fi action movies - it's this aspect that keeps me fairly indifferent about a lot of Giacchino's Star Trek scores, even his main theme doesn't sell the spirit of Star Trek.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

Jerry's score for STAR TREK V, is the first time that we hear the four note "friendship" motif, which continued throughout the T.N.G. films.

Nostalgia notwithstanding, I've always loved STAR TREK V, ever since I saw it at the cinema, in 1989. It's a much malainged work - and a lot of that is justified - but I still like to watch it.

After STAR TREK T.M.P., and STAR TREK III, it's my third favourite T.O.S. film.

[Pellaeon 593]

7 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

I certainly don't understand those who find it a silly story and try to pretend it never happened (including, if I remember correctly, Roddenberry himself)

 

He wasn’t involved in it and it wasn’t popular, so it’s no mystery he would disassociate himself with it.

 

7 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said:

you can't imagine them doing a TOS episode where they made peace with the Klingons, for example.

 

They make peace with the Klingons in the very first TOS episode involving Klingons, and this treaty is in force throughout the rest of the series.

[Disco Stu 15,495]

I'm a bit in the middle on Final Frontier.  I enjoy watching it (I just like being with that cast and the Goldsmith score), and I like a lot of what it's going for, but the story is basically a failure for me.  But no matter your opinion on the film, and even if it is "online only" liner notes, I would have worded that part more diplomatically.  Something like "Star Trek V received a mixed fan reception and for many The Next Generation provided a needed reminder of why they loved the franchise" or some such.

 

I also want to just make clear that I love the Ron Jones box set and actually really appreciate the expanded online notes as a guide through the release.  That bit just struck me the wrong way

[Tallguy 3,395]

I've discovered that The Final Frontier is nigh unwatchable. It is, however, extremely listenable, like a radio play.

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

20 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

 

He wasn’t involved in it and it wasn’t popular, so it’s no mystery he would disassociate himself with it.

I get that, but I still think it's a bit silly to pretend it's not canon or that it's not a story in keeping with Star Trek but anyway.

21 hours ago, Pellaeon said:

 

They make peace with the Klingons in the very first TOS episode involving Klingons, and this treaty is in force throughout the rest of the series.

You are quite right, I have to admit that I'm not super familiar with the original series but guess the relationship with the Klingons established at the end of Errand of Mercy didn't really change materially over the series. It was only really substantially moved forward with ST:TNG/ST6:TUC.

[Jay 37,368]

‘Star Trek: Discovery’, ‘Lower Decks’, ‘Strange New Worlds’ Renewed at Paramount Plus; ‘Strange New Worlds’ Season 1 to Premiere May 5; ‘Picard’ Season 2 to Premiere March 3

[A24 4,338]

I found the origin of the Borg!

 

[bruce marshall 1,315]

On 31/12/2021 at 10:27 AM, Tallguy said:

I've discovered that The Final Frontier is nigh unwatchable. It is, however, extremely listenable, like a radio play.

Yeah.

Jerry has a few of those

On 09/09/2021 at 2:18 PM, Naïve Old Fart said:

...and STAR TREK V, and CE3K, and THE GODFATHER PT. III.

At least SS got a chance the revise it. Even without the new ending it was a big improvement.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,534]

A Q. Q. for those who have seen PICARD: how does it tie-in with the end of NEMESIS? Is it a linear progression? 

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

1 hour ago, Naïve Old Fart said:

A Q. Q. for those who have seen PICARD: how does it tie-in with the end of NEMESIS? Is it a linear progression? 

Only in the sense that it ties into Data’s “death” at the end of the film. Otherwise it just kinda skips to retired Picard. 

[Jay 37,368]

Strange New Worlds teaser

 

 

[Tom Guernsey 2,286]

48 minutes ago, Jay said:

 

Girlish squeal!

[Giftheck 916]

Context for those who came in too late to see it?

[Jay 37,368]

What?

[Giftheck 916]

 

I assumed that it got taken down. Otherwise it's not available here.

[Dave 217]

The trailer contained a horse riding Pike, some good looking planets, some narration, a 25% different Enterprise and too much of Sandy's TOS theme.

[Jay 37,368]

I guess Paramount+ geolocks their Youtube channel. Try a vpn

[Jay 37,368]

Strange New Worlds trailer

 

 

[Jay 37,368]

Lower Decks season 3 teaser

 

 

[Giftheck 916]

Context? Seems the video is unavailable, at least outside the US

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Yeah, I'd appreciate some context when you leave these kinds of videos here @Jay, many of us can't see them due to region-locking and have no idea what you're posting.

 

I recently finished season 4 of Discovery. I have to say, this show really found its footing. Apparently COVID gave the writers more time to break the story and it really shows. The entire season feels like a breath of fresh air; tight, focused, and fluid, and everyone is given something interesting to do (give or take a Grey or Adira). While the subject matter is clearly a parallel to COVID and current events it never feels ham-fisted like so many pandemic-related things do. The actors are all doing great work, especially Martin-Green as Burnham who has finally elevated to the role of captain, and she earns it. Burnham is no longer defying strict orders every other scene to suit her own selfish pursuits and is finally embodying leadership skills and professional judgement in the spirit of Kirk, Picard, Sisko and Janeway before her. I suppose if you watch the first three seasons as a show about Burnham growing and learning to become that captain it makes a lot of sense, but it's still good to see her character's qualities defined by her actions, rather than the visible and heavy hand of the writers who traditionally gush over her through dialogue from supporting characters.

 

I still have issues with the thematic focus and approach to trauma and mental illness, but at least now it feels a little more balanced with the themes of duty, resilience and logic, and is somewhat more relevant given our current world condition. There's still a few awkward moments featuring characters inexplicably regurgitating their traumatic pasts, which would be fine if the show allowed those characters some focus but given the plot heavy serial-approach and scene emphasis on the leads it never really feels earned.

 

MVP for me this year was Wilson Cruz as Dr Culber. He gave a compelling performance and has grown so much as an actor since the early days. You could really tell he was more of a stage actor in those days, but he's found a really naturalistic approach for TV now and doesn't stick out but stands out. That character always felt a bit thin but the writers gave him a lot to work with and he nailed it.

 

It was nice to see first contact with a truly alien, non-humanoid species, and the 10-C were genuinely awe-inspiring as depicted. The focus of diplomacy and communication in the face of existential threat is pure Trek, and while the science behind their communication method felt a bit dodgy it was held together with some compelling drama. There was some clear influence from Villeneuve's Arrival which served the show well.

 

Also I loved Saru (who's always been my favourite), and his courtship and chemistry with the Ni'Var president crackled, but in an entirely appropriate way. I totally ship those two. I also continue to enjoy Cronenburg's enigmatic character, and Tig Notaro always delights as Jett Reno (whenever her schedule allows her character to materialise out of the pattern buffer).

 

Plenty more to go on about, but I'll leave it there.

[Docteur Qui 1,544]

Here's links that worked for me for the trailers Jay shared:
 

 

 

 

Strange New Worlds looks great, even if the trailer leans a bit heavy on the Marvel-esque quipping. Anson Mount really is impossibly attractive and charismatic. Wish we got to see more of Rebecca Romijn's Number One though, she was so good in Discovery. Not long to wait though!

 

I haven't watched Lower Decks outside of a few clips that looked pretty good, but this teaser doesn't do much for me. I've heard good things about it though, and for anyone who's seen it, does it take a while to click into place or is it good from the start? I might check it out while I still have a Paramount+ account.

 

Between Picard, S4 of Discovery and now these I feel like I'm really getting back into Trek after years of disinterest. Pretty great to have all this stuff happening now! Anyone seen Prodigy? I know it's more of a kids show but that doesn't bother me, and Janeway was my first captain so I'd love to see more of her. I'm disappointed she hasn't shown up in Picard... yet.