The Force Awakens Star Wars Episode VII: The Force Awakens (JJ Abrams 2015)

[Jay 37,370]

[filmmusic 1,837]

This looks like a Mondo poster.

Is it?

[Jay 37,370]

The artist is Dan Mumford

http://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/624117-the-first-amc-exclusive-star-wars-the-force-awakens-poster-revealed

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Drew Struzan!

[mrbellamy 6,287]

Going back to the rehash/reboot argument, I think I get Maurizio's meaning when comparing this film to the original, and Steef's comment that "Lucas wasn't influenced by Star Wars when he made Star Wars." While Star Wars technically wasn't anything new, Lucas was still drawing from a wide array of influences and personal experiences...they say originality is just being able to hide who and what you're stealing from. There was Kurosawa and Flash Gordon serials, but there's also his love of fast cars and technology. The cutting on Star Wars is not avant-garde, but his interest in experimental cinema helped bring him to certain conclusions about editing, like the ability to receive visual information at a much faster pace than was perhaps common in the mainstream, certainly with this kind of movie.

Joseph Campbell, it's easy to just say "Yeah, yeah, Hero's Journey blah blah blah" but we all know Lucas was way deep into that stuff. He didn't just skim through Hero With a Thousand Faces on a Tuesday afternoon. He was this young, intellectual dude of the 60s and 70s completely obsessed with Campbell's views on mythology and their implications toward culture, history, religion, and he wanted to make an appealing fantasy/sci-fi movie. He's said repeatedly that his curiosity was if he could use that stuff in a new fairy tale and if it would still resonate on any level with people who wouldn't know the first thing about monomyth (and yeah, if he could make a little cash in the process, so much the better). These were the things that brought us Star Wars.

I'd be curious to know what Abrams' influences with this new movie are. Surely there have to be plenty, whether or not their expression turns out to be lacking. Is he bringing anything to the table on a personal level? Who is JJ Abrams, anyway? What's he interested in besides mystery boxes and aliens? I'm honestly asking, I don't know much about him. So far he's talking about other Star Wars movies a lot but then again that's all anybody's asking him about. I don't see why even the biggest blockbuster with the biggest financial imperative should be precluded from having a unique perspective, sharing a love of cinema and the world at large. There's this weird thing where people tend to equate "auteur" with "provocateur" and I don't think they have to go hand-in-hand....I would at least hope Abrams as well as Kasdan, Arndt, Dan Mindel, Rick Carter etc found some inspiration from outside this particular franchise. It'd be nice to watch the film and recognize new and different aspects of the world brought to this fantasy universe we all love, both in narrative and production design. Otherwise of course they'd be boxing themselves in.

[Romão 2,274]

The vibe I get from everything we've seen this far is exactly like the Mark Hamill quote on that behind the scenes video that was posted oficially a few months back: "Nothing's changed, and yet everything's changed". And that is honestly everything I could hope for. Let's see how the movie delivers

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I can understand the joy for everyone that didnt follow the EU... but for me i still have mixed feelings. It's nice though that they havent spoiled the plot with the trailers. Anyway, Lucas made more engaging trailers.

This was supposed to ammend the errors made in the EU...yet we have again megalomaniac empires building superweapons...

As if the Bantam-spectra material was not enough! Well at least Han & Leia's children are not babies to be kidnapped repeatedly...

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Did Disney ever clean TFA was going to ammend all the errors of the EU?

[Jay 37,370]

Of course not.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I never understood why some expected Disney to adhere to a continuity which is totally unrelated to the films, and is...according to most people ive talked too, mostly shite.

[Jay 37,370]

I never expected the new films to reference stuff from the old 90's books

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

um...

Having a superweapon, is referencing 10 years of expanded universe....

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Well we don't exactly know how that will play out. All we have is an image on the poster.

But a super weapon is not unique to the EU

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

I never understood why some expected Disney to adhere to a continuity which is totally unrelated to the films, and is...according to most people ive talked too, mostly shite.

That's why i will not understand if in the end the new canon is just an "mix beberage" of things from the EU.

[Jay 37,370]

Huh? They're clearly doing there own thing here, some of which might coincidentally be similar to what other authors did (another superweapon, another bad guy picking up where The Emperor left off, etc). But they are not SPECIFICALLY FOLLOWING THE BOOKS CONTINUITY - ie, no Mara Jade, Admiral Thrawn, Jorus C'Baoth, Jaina & Jacen Solo, Anakin Solo, New Republic, ysalamiri, etc

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Well we don't exactly know how that will play out. All we have is an image on the poster.

But a super weapon is not unique to the EU

Yeah... but it's supposedly what makes ROTJ's and some of the EU plots be crap.

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Steef's comment that "Lucas wasn't influenced by Star Wars when he made Star Wars."

He stole that from a typically eloquent post I made a while back which prophetically summed up very well the last three pages of this thread!

Once again, ahead of my time and unappreciated.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I guess you can compare it with the Marvel Cinematic Universe.

It follows a different continuity then the comic book universes, but borrows plot elements, characters or character names, concepts etc from it and retools them to fit into the MCU.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Huh? They're clearly doing there own thing here, some of which might coincidentally be similar to what other authors did (another superweapon, another bad guy picking up where The Emperor left off, etc). But they are not SPECIFICALLY FOLLOWING THE BOOKS CONTINUITY - ie, no Mara Jade, Admiral Thrawm, Jacen Solo, Anakin and Jaina Solo, etc

Ahem... Kylo Ren is Mara Jade.

[Jay 37,370]

Steef's comment that "Lucas wasn't influenced by Star Wars when he made Star Wars."

He stole that from a typically eloquent post I made a while back which prophetically summed up very well the last three pages of this thread!

Once again, ahead of my time and unappreciated.

Link?

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Huh? They're clearly doing there own thing here, some of which might coincidentally be similar to what other authors did (another superweapon, another bad guy picking up where The Emperor left off, etc). But they are not SPECIFICALLY FOLLOWING THE BOOKS CONTINUITY - ie, no Mara Jade, Admiral Thrawm, Jacen Solo, Anakin and Jaina Solo, etc

Yeah.

But what if Kylo and Ren are Han and Leia's long lost twins, or some time a blue skinned red eyed military mastermind surfaces. Does that count as reference or not???

[Jay 37,370]

What are you talking about, Luke?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Steef's comment that "Lucas wasn't influenced by Star Wars when he made Star Wars."

He stole that from a typically eloquent post I made a while back which prophetically summed up very well the last three pages of this thread!

Once again, ahead of my time and unappreciated.

Link?

Huh? They're clearly doing there own thing here, some of which might coincidentally be similar to what other authors did (another superweapon, another bad guy picking up where The Emperor left off, etc). But they are not SPECIFICALLY FOLLOWING THE BOOKS CONTINUITY - ie, no Mara Jade, Admiral Thrawm, Jacen Solo, Anakin and Jaina Solo, etc

Yeah.

But what if Kylo and Ren are Han and Leia's long lost twins, or some time a blue skinned red eyed military mastermind surfaces. Does that count as reference or not???

What's wrong with the new films referencing bits of the EU if applicable?

Again, Marvel does it all the time

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Steef's comment that "Lucas wasn't influenced by Star Wars when he made Star Wars."

He stole that from a typically eloquent post I made a while back which prophetically summed up very well the last three pages of this thread!

Once again, ahead of my time and unappreciated.

Link?

Yep, that joke's definitely not funny when you're the one doing it. Especially since you probably have no idea who this guy is!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

So certain are you?

[mstrox 6,651]

There is nothing wrong at all with a superweapon, or with an Imperial remnant. The idea itself is fine. The execution is what's important.

The execution in a lot of the Legends material was poor. I haven't read any of the canon books yet, but apparently the hits-misses rate is about 50/50. The movies will eventually be that way, too, I'm sure.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

So certain are you?

And now I can picture you going quickly to Wikipedia to learn as much info about him as you can!

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

I've played Zelda!

I remember John Williams did the theme

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Steef's comment that "Lucas wasn't influenced by Star Wars when he made Star Wars."

He stole that from a typically eloquent post I made a while back which prophetically summed up very well the last three pages of this thread!

Once again, ahead of my time and unappreciated.

Link?

#7461

[Jay 37,370]

Bravo!

[crocodile 8,017]

Steef's comment that "Lucas wasn't influenced by Star Wars when he made Star Wars."

He stole that from a typically eloquent post I made a while back which prophetically summed up very well the last three pages of this thread!

Once again, ahead of my time and unappreciated.

Link?

#7461

Yes! Yes! Yes!

Karol

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Thank you, thank you, too kind.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

[crocodile 8,017]

Character development!

Karol

[Jay 37,370]

Stefan, will you have all the same philosophies at 70 years old that you had when you were 30?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Stefan, will you have all the same philosophies at 70 years old that you had when you were 30?

Why do you assume I have anything against that change?

[Jay 37,370]

Why do you assume that I assumed that?

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Why do you assume that I assumed that?

Stefan, will you have all the same philosophies at 70 years old that you had when you were 30?

[Jay 37,370]

[KK 3,307]

I WAS TALKING ABOUT THE ORIGINAL FILM!

Karol

Thats what I'm saying.

And don't you dare scream at my you fucking dough-eyed sack of shit!

Its OK for JJ and Kasdan to do a remake of ANH because that film was influenced by The Hidden Fortress and Flash Gordon?

OK, again:

I don't see the point the point of being disappointed with the new film being a rehash of original SW. Because that film was already the same old story we've heard in other stories before that, just in a new packaging. And I also said that Lucas trying to introduce new elements in the prequels didn't work.

Maybe there's only just a limited amount of things you can do with a Star Wars film to be Star Wars? And maybe we should either accept that or move on.

Can't be any more clear than that.

Karol

Rehashing archetypal devices from other sources is one thing. Rehashing entire characters and plots from the same franchise is another. The former can be dressed up nicely to fool the audience. The latter, harder to do so.

[TownerFan 4,983]

Going back to the rehash/reboot argument, I think I get Maurizio's meaning when comparing this film to the original, and Steef's comment that "Lucas wasn't influenced by Star Wars when he made Star Wars." While Star Wars technically wasn't anything new, Lucas was still drawing from a wide array of influences and personal experiences...they say originality is just being able to hide who and what you're stealing from. There was Kurosawa and Flash Gordon serials, but there's also his love of fast cars and technology. The cutting on Star Wars is not avant-garde, but his interest in experimental cinema helped bring him to certain conclusions about editing, like the ability to receive visual information at a much faster pace than was perhaps common in the mainstream, certainly with this kind of movie.

Joseph Campbell, it's easy to just say "Yeah, yeah, Hero's Journey blah blah blah" but we all know Lucas was way deep into that stuff. He didn't just skim through Hero With a Thousand Faces on a Tuesday afternoon. He was this young, intellectual dude of the 60s and 70s completely obsessed with Campbell's views on mythology and their implications toward culture, history, religion, and he wanted to make an appealing fantasy/sci-fi movie. He's said repeatedly that his curiosity was if he could use that stuff in a new fairy tale and if it would still resonate on any level with people who wouldn't know the first thing about monomyth (and yeah, if he could make a little cash in the process, so much the better). These were the things that brought us Star Wars.

I'd be curious to know what Abrams' influences with this new movie are. Surely there have to be plenty, whether or not their expression turns out to be lacking. Is he bringing anything to the table on a personal level? Who is JJ Abrams, anyway? What's he interested in besides mystery boxes and aliens? I'm honestly asking, I don't know much about him. So far he's talking about other Star Wars movies a lot but then again that's all anybody's asking him about. I don't see why even the biggest blockbuster with the biggest financial imperative should be precluded from having a unique perspective, sharing a love of cinema and the world at large. There's this weird thing where people tend to equate "auteur" with "provocateur" and I don't think they have to go hand-in-hand....I would at least hope Abrams as well as Kasdan, Arndt, Dan Mindel, Rick Carter etc found some inspiration from outside this particular franchise. It'd be nice to watch the film and recognize new and different aspects of the world brought to this fantasy universe we all love, both in narrative and production design. Otherwise of course they'd be boxing themselves in.

Thank you for saying it much better than I could ever have.

[A24 4,345]

Another good one, Steef!

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Hmmm, one would think that Han, having luke as his friend for 2-3 years, suffering torture at the hands of darth vader and after being successfully rescued from Jabba by Luke, already believed in the Force, the Jedi and the dark side by the end ROTJ for sure.

so what he believes in TFA he has for 30 years already...

[Jay 37,370]

Did Han himself ever directly witness the force in action at any point during the original trilogy?

[Faleel 5,358]

Luke training with the Remote
The Destruction of the Death Star.
Vader pulling Hans gun
Luke lifting Threepio in front of the Ewoks..

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

Yeah, exactly, never!

[A24 4,345]

Jay being corrected. Good!

[Quintus 5,399]

After getting pissed as a fart with ewoks, Solo's friend, Luke (a powerful Jedi), spoke to him about his training and his power which helped him to destroy the Emperor. He probably even demonstrated the power to him first hand. Indeed, there were probably many stories shared between the two companions in the days after the fall of the Empire. Han was converted with no particularly great effort on Skywalker's part.

Apparently to some of you this is spectacularly unbelievable, but hey, this is the internets init.

[Jay 37,370]

Vader pulling Hans gun

Luke lifting Threepio in front of the Ewoks..

OK, those two count, yes!

[Dixon Hill 4,234]

After getting pissed as a fart with ewoks, Solo's friend, Luke (a powerful Jedi), spoke to him about his training and his power which helped him to destroy the Emperor. He probably even demonstrated the power to him first hand. Indeed, there were probably many stories shared between the two companions in the days after the fall of the Empire. Han was converted with no particularly great effort on Skywalker's part.

Apparently to some of you this is spectacularly unbelievable, but hey, this is the internets init.

But like we didn't like see it so WTF happened? But now there's too much exposition OMG lol can't these guys show not tell? But wait what happened, when did that thing happen? Ugh don't they explain anything anymore?!