Thor 7,602 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Sad to see all these dismissals of MUNICH -- in my opinion one of the strongest Williams scores in the 2000s (clocking in at my own 7th place on the list on the last page), for one of the very best films he's worked on in the same period. Koray Savas and Once 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,048 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1. A.I. 2. Memoirs of a Geisha 3. Star Wars - The Force Awakens 4. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban 5. War Of The Worlds 6. War Horse 7. The Adventures of Tintin 8. Catch Me If You Can 9. Terminal 10. Star Wars - Episode II - Attack of the Clones 11. Harry Potter and the Philosopher's Stone 12. Star Wars - Episode III - Revenge of the Sith 13. Minority Report 14. Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull 15. Munich 16. The Book Thief 17. The Patriot 18. Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets 19. Lincoln Karol Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Christ this is tough... 1. A.I. 2. Minority Report 3. Lincoln 4. The Revenge of the Sith 5. Memoirs of a Geisha 6. Munich 7. The Force Awakens 8. The Attack of the Clones 9. The Philosopher's Stone 10. The Patriot 11. The Prisoner of Azkaban 12. War of the Worlds 13. The Chamber of Secrets 14. Catch Me If You Can 15. War Horse 16. The Terminal 17. The Book Thief 18. The Secret of the Unicorn 19. The Kingdom of the Crystal Skull Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,048 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Not a fan of the Crystal Skull theme then? Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 It's Ok. I just don't find the underscore too interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 The Patriot The Force Awakens AI Lincoln The Prisoner of Azkaban The Sorcerer's Stone Revenge of the Sith Memoirs of a Geisha The Adventures of Tintin and the Secret of the Unicorn War Horse Minority Report The Terminal The Chamber of Secrets Attack of the Clones Munich War of the Worlds Catch Me If You Can Indiana Jones 4 The Book Thief Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,048 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 2 hours ago, Thor said: Sad to see all these dismissals of MUNICH -- in my opinion one of the strongest Williams scores in the 2000s (clocking in at my own 7th place on the list on the last page), for one of the very best films he's worked on in the same period. I like parts of it, but also feel it actually harms the film slightly. Which isn't any good anyway, despite solid direction. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Anti semite! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,048 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 I just don't find it clever/intelligent/insightful enough. It kind of glosses over the subject matter without ever making any interesting point. I put it in the same category as Birdman... too ponderous and on the nose. And Williams' score, while pretty in places, is guilty of the same thing. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Both score and film are great Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 29 minutes ago, crocodile said: I just don't find it clever/intelligent/insightful enough. It kind of glosses over the subject matter without ever making any interesting point. I put it in the same category as Birdman... too ponderous and on the nose. And Williams' score, while pretty in places, is guilty of the same thing. While MUNICH is Hollywood-sanitized, it is much more angry and bleak than either 'Amistad' or the recent 'Lincoln' and 'Bridge of Spies' - two movies which truly lack any interesting point. The best thing one can say about the score that for once its muted and subservient. Compare it to, say, the labored jewishness of Perlman playing 'Schindler's List's main themes it strikes me as rather off-the-nose, for Williams especially. Bottom line: neither movie nor score deserve 5 stars but for this team, they are formidable deviations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KK 3,307 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Yup. It's the last Spielberg film that actually felt somewhat raw, which is what I can admire about it. The same could be said for the score, which is a great gem in Williams' post-2000s oeuvre. Having said that, Birdman is a much better and more effective film than Munich. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Revenant's Iñárritu directed that. I hope it's as campy as that one though Keaton is not DiCaprio-league, at least when it comes to 'visible' acting struggles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,602 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 BIRDMAN was the most overrated film last year (it's a 2015 film in Norway). Didn't care for it at all, but I absolutely adored this year's THE REVENANT (it's a 2016 film in Norway). Hope it takes most of the Oscars it's nominated for. In any case, I agree with publicist in that MUNICH is such a raw, sober portrayal (about as raw as Spielberg can get, anyway), but also very beautiful at the same time. So many fantastic things going on in the mise-en-scene here -- visual motifs (like hands), for example -- that makes it a multi-layered film. Williams' score answers beautifully to that in its restraint -- seething like a hypnotic pulse in the suspense scenes, but occasionally rising to the occasion (like the gorgeous cue with the Israeli hymn). The film is such a masterpiece, and deserves credit for being so. It's also possible to give it credit without putting down other films (I like films like AMISTAD, LINCOLN and BRIDGE OF SPIES, but for wholly other reasons). Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,048 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 1 hour ago, publicist said: While MUNICH is Hollywood-sanitized, it is much more angry and bleak than either 'Amistad' or the recent 'Lincoln' and 'Bridge of Spies' - two movies which truly lack any interesting point. The best thing one can say about the score that for once its muted and subservient. Compare it to, say, the labored jewishness of Perlman playing 'Schindler's List's main themes it strikes me as rather off-the-nose, for Williams especially. Bottom line: neither movie nor score deserve 5 stars but for this team, they are formidable deviations. I never had that feeling about Schindler's List because it never felt to me like a mushy melodramatic underscore. It's emotional, yeah, but very raw at the same time. It has a more of a source music kind of rawness to it. Which became a cliche bit later, after the fact. In Munich, I just feel like someone is forcing me to feel a very specific way about what I'm seeing on screen, and that infamous sex scene pushed it to the point of laughable. I liked the album very much when it came out, thought it was different and all. But it soon started to fall apart in my eyes. Maybe my opinion will change again one day. We'll see. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted January 31, 2016 Share Posted January 31, 2016 Why would Bridge Of Spies need to be bleak or angry? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,489 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 JW doesn't get any better than Stalking Carl! Koray Savas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 it should be pointed out that the Patriot is not a 21 century score but a 20th century score. seriously this is a stupid mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 4 minutes ago, Joey said: it should be pointed out that the Patriot is not a 21 century score but a 20th century score. seriously this is a stupid mistake. It's technically an 18th century score JoeinAR and Gruesome Son of a Bitch 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,868 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 It was a bit difficult, because some scores have really strong themes, but they lose points as an overall experience. Anyway, here's how my list could look: AI HP1 Memoirs of a Geisha Tintin Catch me if you can HP3 War Horse HP2 The Patriot The Terminal Munich Minority Report Lincoln The Book Thief War of the Worlds ROTS AOTC KOTCS TFA As you can see, I'm not so much a fan of sequel scores, especially when I think that in a 4th, 5th...7th score, the musical thematic material and language has been exhausted and one can't bring something new and exciting. Of course there are exceptions, eg. I think Irina's theme is one of the best themes Williams has written. If it was written for a 40s film noir it would have been a classic! 1 hour ago, Mr. Big said: It's technically an 18th century score Well, no it isn't. It's technically a score for an 18th century story movie. There is a difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,489 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 I'm a Williams fan. I haven't got the luxury of principles. Not Mr. Big 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,838 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 With scores like Munich I can only really listen to certain cues. I only occasionally revisit the entire album. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrbellamy 6,334 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 AI, HP 1 + 3, and Catch Me If You Can are my very favorites. Dramatically and musically, I just love these to bits. The Star Wars scores and HP 2 I still listen to all the time. Endlessly entertaining. We'll see about Force Awakens' longevity but it's settling very well with me. Only really listen to the highlights from Memoirs of a Geisha, War Horse, Lincoln, Munich, The Terminal, and Tintin anymore but I enjoy these too in roughly listed order. In terms of ranking I'd throw at least the first four in the mix with the second group. I like The Book Thief and KOTCS but have no special feelings on either. Though I recently have really been getting into "Irina's Theme" for the first time. Never really paid it much attention before, but damn it's great. Sadly don't own Minority Report, War of the Worlds, or The Patriot so have yet to really listen to these carefully away from the film, but I especially love the first two in context. 3 hours ago, Joey said: it should be pointed out that the Patriot is not a 21 century score but a 20th century score. seriously this is a stupid mistake. Everybody loves pointing out that 2000 is not technically the beginning of the 21st century, but I still am not sure why it matters...? It's splitting hairs. For casual historical/cultural discussions it's obviously easier to remember 2000s, 1900s, 1800s etc. Yeah it's a misnomer but does anybody really care that much about giving the 1st century the full 1000 years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flare 10 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 Hmmm. I must confess I haven't listened to them all . . . . Of the ones I can remember TFA Tintin AI Harry Potter 1 RotS Book Thief Harry Potter 3 AotC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrJosh 892 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 1. Harry Potter 1 2. A.I. 3. The Star Wars: Revenge of the Sith 4. Indiana Jones and the Aliens (because I'm lovin that jungle chase) 5. Star Wars: The Force Awakens (Rey's theme is so good, it bumps the score up on my list) 6. Star Wars: Attack of the Clones 7. Tom Cruise I: Minority Report 8. Tom Cruise II: War Of The Worlds (love the dark, low end of the orchestra and double the timpani) 9. Memoirs of a Geisha 10. War Horse 11. Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban 12. Harry Potter and the William Ross (I'd put it higher, but I wish there was less revisiting of HP1) 13. The Patriot (Would still have liked to hear David Arnold score this though) 14. The Book Thief 15. Lincoln 16. The Adventures of Tintin (somehow this score didn't do much for me) 17. Tom Hanks Vs Airport 18. Catch Me If You Can 19. Munich (I don't like the female vocals, sorry) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 8 hours ago, crocodile said: I never had that feeling about Schindler's List because it never felt to me like a mushy melodramatic underscore. It's emotional, yeah, but very raw at the same time. It has a more of a source music kind of rawness to it. Which became a cliche bit later, after the fact. What??? Apart from the Auschwitz cue it's solemn Hollywood with a bed of strings. Or we have very different ideas of how 'raw' and 'source music' sound. 8 hours ago, Stefancos said: Why would Bridge Of Spies need to be bleak or angry? It only needed to be interesting. Which it decidedly wasn't. 9 hours ago, Thor said: Didn't care for it at all, but I absolutely adored this year's THE REVENANT (it's a 2016 film in Norway). Hope it takes most of the Oscars it's nominated for. Yeah. Nothing better than having a good, hearty 2-hour laugh in the aisles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmmusic 1,868 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 4 hours ago, MrJosh said: 19. Munich (I don't like the female vocals, sorry) Pity. That one is a so strong theme, a highlight in Williams' late period. And the main theme from Catch me if you can (and father's theme) which you listed before that, were so refreshing, that's why I ranked it so high in my list. This is the Williams I would love to hear more often. Not the 12th or whatever Star Wars score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeinAR 1,949 Posted February 1, 2016 Share Posted February 1, 2016 9 hours ago, mrbellamy said: AI, HP 1 + 3, and Catch Me If You Can are my very favorites. Dramatically and musically, I just love these to bits. The Star Wars scores and HP 2 I still listen to all the time. Endlessly entertaining. We'll see about Force Awakens' longevity but it's settling very well with me. Only really listen to the highlights from Memoirs of a Geisha, War Horse, Lincoln, Munich, The Terminal, and Tintin anymore but I enjoy these too in roughly listed order. In terms of ranking I'd throw at least the first four in the mix with the second group. I like The Book Thief and KOTCS but have no special feelings on either. Though I recently have really been getting into "Irina's Theme" for the first time. Never really paid it much attention before, but damn it's great. Sadly don't own Minority Report, War of the Worlds, or The Patriot so have yet to really listen to these carefully away from the film, but I especially love the first two in context. Everybody loves pointing out that 2000 is not technically the beginning of the 21st century, but I still am not sure why it matters...? It's splitting hairs. For casual historical/cultural discussions it's obviously easier to remember 2000s, 1900s, 1800s etc. Yeah it's a misnomer but does anybody really care that much about giving the 1st century the full 1000 years? Because it's incorrect. It's not splitting hairs it's wrong. O is the end not the beginning but hey if you support stupidity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Score 771 Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 On 31/1/2016 at 7:25 PM, Thor said: Sad to see all these dismissals of MUNICH -- in my opinion one of the strongest Williams scores in the 2000s (clocking in at my own 7th place on the list on the last page), for one of the very best films he's worked on in the same period. I think the movie is great. The score does its job well in the film, but as a listening experience in itself, it's the kind of music that tells me almost nothing, except for a few tracks which are standard good Williams, but not terribly outstanding among the rest of his output (the female vocal piece, Hativkah and Avner's theme). The film definitely has many moments of real tension, which are very well enforced by the music, but this does not mean that the music alone is good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,602 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 12 hours ago, Score said: I think the movie is great. The score does its job well in the film, but as a listening experience in itself, it's the kind of music that tells me almost nothing, except for a few tracks which are standard good Williams, but not terribly outstanding among the rest of his output (the female vocal piece, Hativkah and Avner's theme). The film definitely has many moments of real tension, which are very well enforced by the music, but this does not mean that the music alone is good. Depends if you like textures or not. I think Williams' textures are often very interesting, including MUNICH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TownerFan 4,991 Posted February 3, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted February 3, 2016 Personal preferences aside, I think we can all agree at how versatile, eclectic and interesting Williams' output has been in the last 15 years. Personally, I find plenty to enjoy in all these works and I return to listen to every one of them, hence it's difficult for me to make a list. Surely I have preferences and some scores are definitely more successful than others, but there is not a single bad or uninteresting score in this batch. Taikomochi, Not Mr. Big, BuzzLightyear and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
publicist 4,643 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Some verge on being uninteresting, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 Yes, but only one. That we all know. I will use a couple seconds here to praise John's 21st century scores. It's definitely better pack than the one from 90's. I know most of the fans have been grown with the scores from 90's JP; Hook etc. but that is just nostalgic... And I have to predict that after we have had the BGF, SW8, PlayerOne,SW9 and name one more 2019 Spielberg classic score his 2010' output can battle against the 70's an the 80's!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 1 hour ago, hornist said: Yes, but only one. That we all know. The Book Thief? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Nooooooo!!!!! The Book Thief is one of his best scores, but that you knew ij4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taikomochi 1,143 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 I love Indiana Jones 4, certainly more than The Book Thief or Munich. Apples and oranges, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Well the Münich isn't very good because the film is awful. Nice music though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,602 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 8 hours ago, hornist said: Well the Münich isn't very good because the film is awful. Nice music though. Don't know what you've been smoking, but MUNICH is a masterpiece -- probably the next best film Williams has scored since 2000 (the best being A.I.). Wish you could read Norwegian, because a colleague of mine wrote this brilliant, in-depth analysis of the film and its many motifs: http://montages.no/2013/06/munchen-2005/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joni Wiljami 1,206 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Actually I can read norsk but that doesn't change my opinion about that flick. And I'm not going to watch TBS, looks annoying, Hanks and everything. Steven should do only fantasy like MR,BGF etc. where he is good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,602 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 6 minutes ago, hornist said: Actually I can read norsk but that doesn't change my opinion about that flick. And I'm not going to watch TBS, looks annoying, Hanks and everything. Steven should do only fantasy like MR,BGF etc. where he is good at. Ah, I see. THAT's why we disagree so fundamentally on this. I love Spielberg in fantasy mode etc., but I love his "serious" films just as much (sometimes even more). It's how he constantly alternates between the two, but with his own visual and thematic trademarks running through, that makes him such an auteur and the greatest filmmaker who ever lived. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzPeti42 49 Posted February 4, 2016 Share Posted February 4, 2016 Nice discussion! I'm biased toward some movies (Star Wars for example) so I don’t think I can make a fully objective list. I certainly have favourites from this century, I’m one of the people who really loves his later scores. If I’m trying to be as unbiased as possible (so I exclude all SW and HP), then I think my no. 1 is Memoirs of a Geisha. I did not know anything about it before listening to it and seeing the movie, and it completely blew me away. Beautiful, just beautiful. With awesome solo performances, Asian influences, but with his recognizable style. I really loved his quieter outputs from this time period, like the Terminal and Catch me if you can. War Horse was another score I did not know anything about but loved, but from the same category I couldn’t really get into AI, because back then I did not like the child actor who played the main character. So again, I cannot be objective about the music because my experience with the movie altered my experience with the score. In the battle of the Americana, The Patriot wins for me over Lincoln, mainly because I love its action writing, Tavington’s Trap is one of my secret favourites. As I’m not a US citizen, the added historical emotional component is not as powerful for me, so I can view it as an outsider. And I can say I really like his American-themed scores (JFK, 4th of July, Nixon, etc.). Taikomochi 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 10 hours ago, SzPeti42 said: I couldn’t really get into AI, because back then I did not like the child actor who played the main character. So again, I cannot be objective about the music because my experience with the movie altered my experience with the score. I hate the movie something fierce but the score is in my top 5 Williams' scores in the last 15 years, and one of my favorites in general. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzPeti42 49 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 52 minutes ago, nightscape94 said: I hate the movie something fierce but the score is in my top 5 Williams' scores in the last 15 years, and one of my favorites in general. I can get behind that, I’m just usually not like that. It’s easier when I listen to the score first and I build an emotional connection with it before seeing the movie, so I can love it even if the movie does not meet my expectations, but back then I was like 13, without fast internet here in Hungary, and with really inflated CD prizes and a general lack of public interest in these kinds of music. Generally I could get 1 or 2 Williams albums for Christmas or Birthdays if you could find any at all and that's it. I received Harry Potter and the 69-99 Greatest hits CDs as presents around that time, so the only time I heard AI when they broadcasted the movie on TV. I’ve listened to the score a few times since then, but the emotional connection is not there. I can say that it is a really fine score, and I do like it, I just couldn’t put it as my all-time favourites Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Thor 7,602 Posted February 5, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted February 5, 2016 8 hours ago, nightscape94 said: I hate the movie something fierce but the score is in my top 5 Williams' scores in the last 15 years, and one of my favorites in general. Wow. It's hard to imagine two people having SO radically different opinions on a film. For me, it's on so many "top" lists -- best film since 2000, top 5 Spielberg films, top 10 sci fi etc. etc. Fantastic all around! But I'm glad to see we agree on the score, at least. Loert, Taikomochi and Dixon Hill 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not Mr. Big 4,652 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 1 minute ago, Thor said: Wow. It's hard to imagine two people having SO radically different opinions on a film. For me, it's on so many "top" lists -- best film since 2000 What movie from 2000 beats A.I? Is it The Patriot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,602 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 44 minutes ago, Mr. Big said: What movie from 2000 beats A.I? Is it The Patriot? What? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nightscape94 965 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 8 hours ago, Thor said: Wow. It's hard to imagine two people having SO radically different opinions on a film. That's what I love about artistic expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 But what is art? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,602 Posted February 5, 2016 Share Posted February 5, 2016 What is love? SzPeti42 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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