Will 2,215 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Please don't get too technical about synth because I know barely anything about it. Also, it would be nice if you'd provide time stamps and be very specific about where you hear it. TheWhiteRider, Sharkus Malarkus, and Jilal, take it away! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Off the top of my head... Available on the bootleg sessions (not on Youtube), but not the official soundtrack. Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SzPeti42 49 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 The first that came to my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Can't find it without the narration.... I love the airy quasi-choral/vocal thing that he does like at 2:48 and and 3:19... ...and at 0:34 here. His classic "ghostly" synth thing throughout this. And throughout A.I. You must simply listen to the whole thing, no examples! OK, one example. My favorite electronic moment in Williams' whole output is, I think, at 2 minutes into Of Course I'm Not Sure. I'd like to explain why, but I find it very difficult to put into words. It's rivaled only by the later The Specialist Visits, which features synths on some utterly sublime musical gestures at 0:43 and 0:52. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Romão 2,274 Posted July 29, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 29, 2016 The one and only I love this little moment Plus, the furious synth piano (?) ostinato that follows is also terrific Cerebral Cortex, Will and Koray Savas 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 I am in love with this thread already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 God I love the Minority Report soundtrack Cerebral Cortex 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Disco Stu said: God I love the Minority Report soundtrack Dare I say it's AWESOME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerebral Cortex 3,357 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 His score for Presumed Innocent I think has some of my favorite instances of synth from Williams, especially within the main theme. It's fairly subdued for the most part, and may sound quite dated given it's from 26 years ago, but I love it all the same. I love how we get a burst of synth at around 0:30, and then from 0:35 or so to 1:30 it's all orchestra, and then we switch back to all synth for a bit. The piano begins to creep in, followed by the strings, and then for 15 seconds or so we have this glorious merger of both synth and orchestra. It's just fun seeing Williams "go Borg" for a moment, doing a great job at combining both the synthetic and the natural for an instance. The effect is rather haunting, I'd say. Quieter bits of the main theme can be heard in this track, also with synthy goodness: Here's hoping that Ready Player One gives us a few more cool synth moments from him! Bespin and Nic Cage Fugue 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 1 hour ago, Incanus said: Dare I say it's AWESOME! You may dare say, Inky, because it is! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Also Heartbeeps main titles Koray Savas 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 So...which JW score has, note-for-note, the most synths? ...and what synth plays the really low notes, as Luke arrives at Jabba's palace? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 As the examples so far show, Williams tends to use synths discretely (I know, I'm Captain Obvious!), which I think is wonderful, and why I will always prefer his approach over someone like Goldsmith's. There are are times where synths are more upfront -- like the techno bit in A.I. (sadly not composed by Williams), "The Conspirators" from JFK or the "Training Montage" from SPACE CAMP (which I soooo hope is by Williams himself, just for the fun of it), but they belong to the exceptions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 4 hours ago, Cerebral Cortex said: His score for Presumed Innocent I think has some of my favorite instances of synth from Williams, especially within the main theme. It's fairly subdued for the most part, and may sound quite dated given it's from 26 years ago, but I love it all the same. I love how we get a burst of synth at around 0:30, and then from 0:35 or so to 1:30 it's all orchestra, and then we switch back to all synth for a bit. The piano begins to creep in, followed by the strings, and then for 15 seconds or so we have this glorious merger of both synth and orchestra. It's just fun seeing Williams "go Borg" for a moment, doing a great job at combining both the synthetic and the natural for an instance. The effect is rather haunting, I'd say. Here's hoping that Ready Player One gives us a few more cool synth moments from him! While that is not from the original soundtrack but a re-recording, I do agree that some of the subtle synth work is excellent in Presumed Innocent. 30 minutes ago, Thor said: As the examples so far show, Williams tends to use synths discretely (I know, I'm Captain Obvious!), which I think is wonderful, and why I will always prefer his approach over someone like Goldsmith's. There are are times where synths are more upfront -- like the techno bit in A.I. (sadly not composed by Williams), "The Conspirators" from JFK or the "Training Montage" from SPACE CAMP (which I soooo hope is by Williams himself, just for the fun of it), but they belong to the exceptions. You haven't heard the music for the Dr. Know sequence from A.I. have you Thor have you? Now that is all synth stuff of the weirdest and funniest kind. The score contains those classic rather subtle synth textures Williams often enhances his scores with, either providing support for an instrumental family in the orchestra, a single instrument or refining their sound. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Yes, I've heard the "Dr. Know" music, of course, and I agree -- that's another example of a Williams piece where synth is more upfront. Good example! Didn't "Mr. DNA" from JURASSIC PARK also this kind of whimsical synth quality, or do memories deceive me (perhaps it was just orchestral)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Incanus 5,715 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 17 minutes ago, Thor said: Yes, I've heard the "Dr. Know" music, of course, and I agree -- that's another example of a Williams piece where synth is more upfront. Good example! Didn't "Mr. DNA" from JURASSIC PARK also this kind of whimsical synth quality, or do memories deceive me (perhaps it was just orchestral)? The piece from JP "Cartoon Demonstration" is called Stalling Around by JW on the 20th anniversary release of the score and it is a pure homage to the grand old man of cartoon scoring Carl Stalling and is all orchestral. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 6 hours ago, Incanus said: Dare I say it's AWESOME! Dare! Dare! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 5 hours ago, Richard said: ...and what synth plays the really low notes, as Luke arrives at Jabba's palace? ARP 2600. Probably two or three detuned square wave oscillators sent through a closed low-pass filter, 35ms delay with modulation at around 7hz, sent through a flanger pedal with the resonance pretty high, then maybe DI'd into the mixing console. Big up to tedfud for that info. Naïve Old Fart and Dixon Hill 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marian Schedenig 8,193 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 How about Incident at Isla Nublar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 7,506 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Incanus said: The piece from JP "Cartoon Demonstration" is called Stalling Around by JW on the 20th anniversary release of the score and it is a pure homage to the grand old man of cartoon scoring Carl Stalling and is all orchestral. Thanks. I've only seen the movie, like, 60 times, so kinda embarassing that I didn't remember. I obviously don't have the expansion, where I believe this cue was included. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loert 2,511 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 From 1:57, I suppose this is simultaneously a showcase of percussion, synth, orchestration, counterpoint... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 Great examples all around. What's remarkable to me is how often Williams scores from about the 90s forward call for synths that really fly below the radar. Jurassic Park, the prequels, the Potter scores, you name it - there are a lot of synth doublings all over the place, not to mention acoustic-sounding elements like the omnipresent Harry Potter celeste, which is of course provided via a synthesizer, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,495 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 45 minutes ago, Datameister said: omnipresent Harry Potter celeste, which is of course provided via a synthesizer, too. Wait, there isn't a single actual celeste anywhere in the Williams Potter scores? I somehow didn't know that. I guess that's the case for Rey's Theme too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 That lovely opening synth choir And also Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jilal 569 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 37 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: Wait, there isn't a single actual celeste anywhere in the Williams Potter scores? I somehow didn't know that. I guess that's the case for Rey's Theme too. Actually, Kerber's synth celeste is a mixture of samples of an actual celeste with a sine wave, so there is, although in sampled form. By the way, you can purchase it from Cinesamples (for $99, I believe). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 It's a celeste preset from the DX7 plus a sine wave IIRC. Williams began using MIDI stacking (combining different patches from different synths) in the late 80s on scores like The Witches of Eastwick. 58 minutes ago, Muad'Dib said: Love that wine glasses/cristal baschet patch. There's an almost identifical sound when Obi Wan's hiding out at the bottom of the sinkhole in ROTS. Has anyone tried to recreate Kerber's animal noise synth patches heard in TLW and TPM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 6 hours ago, Sharkus Malarkus said: ARP 2600. Probably two or three detuned square wave oscillators sent through a closed low-pass filter, 35ms delay with modulation at around 7hz, sent through a flanger pedal with the resonance pretty high, then maybe DI'd into the mixing console. Big up to tedfud for that info. DI, huh? Makes sense. Ta for that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Sharkus Malarkus said: Has anyone tried to recreate Kerber's animal noise synth patches heard in TLW and TPM? Time stamps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 9,533 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 9 hours ago, Thor said: As the examples so far show, Williams tends to use synths discretely (I know, I'm Captain Obvious!), which I think is wonderful, and why I will always prefer his approach over someone like Goldsmith's. There are are times where synths are more upfront -- like the techno bit in A.I. (sadly not composed by Williams), "The Conspirators" from JFK or the "Training Montage" from SPACE CAMP (which I soooo hope is by Williams himself, just for the fun of it), but they belong to the exceptions. What about the Precrime Advert? That all synths, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 29, 2016 Share Posted July 29, 2016 2 hours ago, Muad'Dib said: Time stamps? This kinda thing. Or the creepy cows mooing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 Thanks for all the examples! Some questions: Do most JW cues use synth? Can you give me some examples of some of the more famous Williams cues where synth is used in a barely noticeable role (like there is a big thematic statement and perhaps there's some subtle but important synth in the bass region?) How does it work when Williams wants some synth? Would he say/write something to the effect of, "I want a synth that sounds like a cow," and then Randy Kerber would actually figure out how to make that sound? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 It's "synths" not the singular "synth." Short for synthesizer, which is any number of instruments that create sound through various forms of synthesis. Having worked with Kerber for quite a while, Randy knows Williams' descriptive shorthand and what sounds are appropriate to match them. They're usually just words on the keyboard/synth parts like "ghostly" or "glassy" or "voices." Often they call for electric piano and sampled/synthesized celesta or percussion as well. There are a number of recurring sounds you can recognize in different scores. Surely whenever Williams wants something new, he sits down with Randy to figure it out. I believe Nord keyboards have been featured lately, but others may have better information on Kerber's favored gear. Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 6 hours ago, Sharkus Malarkus said: Or the creepy cows mooing here. I always thought that was some kind of flute. Cool to know it's a synth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Mark 3,631 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 13 hours ago, Disco Stu said: Wait, there isn't a single actual celeste anywhere in the Williams Potter scores? I remember an interview where Willliams talks about the celestes and describes it as a small piano with pedals and difficult to play, so there must be a real one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gruesome Son of a Bitch 6,488 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 The Rescue Operation from Always Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dixon Hill 4,234 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 1 hour ago, king mark said: I remember an interview where Willliams talks about the celestes and describes it as a small piano with pedals and difficult to play, so there must be a real one Well. Yes. There is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manakin Skywalker 4,894 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 I've always been curious what that weird "ghostly" synth chorus was in the film version of "Yoda Strikes Back"... the part when Dooku collapses the ceiling on Yoda. Anyone have any idea what type of synth that is? It doesn't seem to have any sort of discernable notes, just like someone randomly pressing keys on a keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex 2,835 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 What counts as a "synth"? Does the drum pad in "Setting the Trap" from Home Alone count as one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A24 4,337 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 5 hours ago, TheWhiteRider said: It's "synths" not the singular "synth." Short for synthesizer, which is any number of instruments that create sound through various forms of synthesis. Having worked with Kerber for quite a while, Randy knows Williams' descriptive shorthand and what sounds are appropriate to match them. They're usually just words on the keyboard/synth parts like "ghostly" or "glassy" or "voices." Often they call for electric piano and sampled/synthesized celesta or percussion as well. There are a number of recurring sounds you can recognize in different scores. Surely whenever Williams wants something new, he sits down with Randy to figure it out. I believe Nord keyboards have been featured lately, but others may have better information on Kerber's favored gear. Exactly, I don't think we truly can speak of 'John Williams, the synthman'. He has people for that. Lead and bass Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Williams wouldn't dirty he hands with them. He leaves that to underlings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Datameister 2,043 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 9 hours ago, king mark said: I remember an interview where Willliams talks about the celestes and describes it as a small piano with pedals and difficult to play, so there must be a real one There are a couple of cues that briefly call for an actual acoustic celeste in a supporting role, but all of the iconic moments that prominently feature the instrument are done with a synthesizer. Of course, Williams is very familiar with real celestes and has called for them in numerous scores. But starting in about the 90s, it mostly switched to synth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Loert 2,511 Posted July 30, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2016 11 hours ago, Will said: Can you give me some examples of some of the more famous Williams cues where synth is used in a barely noticeable role (like there is a big thematic statement and perhaps there's some subtle but important synth in the bass region?) Jurassic Park. For example, take "Journey to the Island": Starting from 1:23, whenever you hear that "ta DAA ta DAA..." theme, there are always "synth bells" layered on top. If you listen very closely, you can hear it. It's even present when the horns come in at 2:45. Then, you can hear the same synth doubling the violins at 3:17. It's barely noticeable but it adds a bright and optimistic tinge IMO. Also, you have a synth in the bass starting from 5:07, playing straight quarter notes. JW marks it as a Very Deep Pulse - between "Pop" and Religioso (which I always found a bit ironic ). It's there probably to just give a grander sound. Btw, there's a lot of this "synth celeste" stuff going on in the cue as well. The very first flourish, the trumpets at 0:07, the flutes at 1:02, the whirling scales from 1:21... 11 hours ago, Will said: How does it work when Williams wants some synth? Would he say/write something to the effect of, "I want a synth that sounds like a cow," and then Randy Kerber would actually figure out how to make that sound? I asked a question to this effect in another thread - you may find the replies useful. Jay, Sharkissimo, Will and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 The synth augmentation is one of the reasons Jurassic Park never quite sounds as good in concert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 That and the lack of choir in the concerts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Ive heard it with choir Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muad'Dib 1,802 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Percussion and synth, two in one Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Sharkissimo 1,973 Posted July 30, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted July 30, 2016 20 hours ago, Will said: Do most JW cues use synth? From around the early 90s onwards, yes, though it depends on the score. Quote Can you give me some examples of some of the more famous Williams cues where synth is used in a barely noticeable role (like there is a big thematic statement and perhaps there's some subtle but important synth in the bass region?) An early example would be just after the Main Titles in ESB where the camera tilts down to reveal the Star Destroyer. There's a big fanfaric figure on the 6 horns, while a solo piccolo intones the Imperial March, and an ARP synth plays a low C, then E, A, F#, Db, C--cutting out at 1:52. Later down the line on Cadillac of the Skies from EOTS, Williams has synth doubling the women's voices from 0:11-1:23, with the marking "Xpander vocal sound" (a patch from the Oberheim Xpander, released in '84). Then at 1:23 a second synth (previously doubling on piano) with instructions "synth string sound" doubles the strings to 1:55. The first synth returns at 1:41 to colour the vibraphone ("ringy + mysterious"). After a few bars rest, it doubles the woodwinds on the big chord at 2:05 ("flutey sound, no vibrato"). 2:17-55 is just the same "synth string sound" from before doubling the strings. So you've got a lot going on, but the role of the keyboard player here is just to add an extra, almost subliminal dimension to the familiar orchestral groups. It's not really a separate member of the orchestra, like it is in for example on Presumed Innocent or Goldsmith's Gremlins 2. Quote How does it work when Williams wants some synth? Would he say/write something to the effect of, "I want a synth that sounds like a cow," and then Randy Kerber would actually figure out how to make that sound? It's normally pretty straightforward, but there are a few exceptions that prove the role. One of my favourite performance markings is in the unreleased The Penitent Man Will Pass from TLC as Indy's slowly approaching the cave with the circular saws. I don't think it's even audible, but the keyboardist is asked to produce "demon's voice - repeating like on a faulty phone to hell." Fortunately you can hear something very similar on the score for BOT4OJ. karelm, Cerebral Cortex, Jay and 3 others 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Will 2,215 Posted July 30, 2016 Author Share Posted July 30, 2016 8 hours ago, Alexcremers said: Exactly, I don't think we truly can speak of 'John Williams, the synthman'. He has people for that. Lead and bass So that's by Williams himself? It's great stuff in any case. As a side note, Heartbeeps is a score I'd never heard until yesterday and now I'm in love with it. Crimebuster - . That awesome low synth beat gleefully mixed with full orchestral writing that has such an excitement to it. Sharkissimo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 37,367 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 46 minutes ago, Will said: As a side note, Heartbeeps is a score I'd never heard until yesterday and now I'm in love with it. Crimebuster - . That awesome low synth beat gleefully mixed with full orchestral writing that has such an excitement to it. I like you! Will 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265 Posted July 30, 2016 Share Posted July 30, 2016 Be careful. He's underaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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