Star Wars Disenchantment

[Demodex 557]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

I will now disengage from you until you have addressed every single one of my questions and points that you ignored on this page.

 

I have addressed all the ridiculous points you've made.  That's why I said we can agree to disagree.

You'll never convince me that you're right about the ST having a plan or the next movie already being filmed.

If you had convincing evidence we wouldn't still be arguing.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Go back to making your narrow art movies.

[Chen G. 3,950]

1 hour ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Go back to making your narrow art movies.

 

Pfft, George can't make those now! He's too busy counting all that Disney money!

[Giftheck 917]

Did he ever get round to making those Smaller, More Personal Films™️?

[Edmilson 7,470]

Anyone else feeling like this whenever we open the forum these days?

 

[Chen G. 3,950]

From a recent Coppola interview, the answers seems to be an unsurprising “no.” Coppola said it’s got to a point where “I can’t mention it anymore.”

 

Lucas made a couple of montage films in film school, and now he wants to be taken for this avant-garde montagist. Big whuff. I actually counted and out of Lucas’ six student films, maybe three or four are “tone poem”-ish, at least one is a narrative and at least one is a documentary. Of Lucas’ later movies, only one is a tone poem: the rest are narratives and documentaries. The man is actually much more of a writer than he would like us to think: the success of Star Wars is in its script, not it’s mise-en-scene.

[Demodex 557]

He'll be back. No one is ever really gone. 

[Tallguy 3,401]

3 hours ago, Demodex said:

He'll be back. No one is ever really gone. 

 

Like Palpatine. Allllll part of the plan.

 

OK. Touch base. AM I disenchanted with Star Wars? Good heavens.

 

What am I "disenchanted" with? I was in the "I will never watch another Indiana Jones movie ever again!" camp. But now I think I'm not. (If Dial of Destiny is terrible I shall... Well I'll be rightly snarked off.)

 

I haven't watched the last Terminator film. I haven't seen either Avatar film. I appear to be disenchanted with James Cameron.

 

I have been disenchanted with The Matrix since 2003.

 

Marvel might still be awesome again. We'll see. I have liked more Marvel than I haven't. But they gave me everything I wanted and now they want to do something "different" which seems to mean "NOT what I wanted". I liked Shang-Chi. And Hawkeye.

 

There is so much Star Trek at the moment and it has such a range. Picard season 2 was not good but I liked bits. 3 was a mess but it did... Something? Strange New Worlds has restored my faith in Star Trek.

 

Then there is Star Wars.

 

My disappointment with any Kennedy / Disney era film is just not in the same class as how I felt during Attack of the Clones. I saw Revenge of the Sith out of duty (?!?) and was numb throughout. The end credits were very emotional because this was the end and it was so terrible.

 

Rise of Skywalker was fun and it made me smile. Didn't make a lick of sense.

 

Book of Boba was... What the hell was that? After a couple of episodes of Mando that had me drinking the Boba Kool Aid that all my friends had been drinking for 40 years they did... What? It had moments of greatness (the Tuskens) but how do you resurrect a character like that, get that actor back, and then sideline him so badly? It was just a lot of really weird choices.

 

Mando is just always a fun thing to see. It's a Star Wars comic book brought to life.

 

The last four episodes of The Clone Wars keep making me think I like the Prequels.

 

Rebels and Andor and Rogue One are some of my favorite Star Wars ever.

 

If they ever figure out to do an Adventures of Star Wars with Luke, Leia, and Han set after Star Wars (and do it well) I will be in Star Wars heaven.

[GerateWohl 4,371]

The last Mandalorian season managed, just like Andor and Bad Batch, something, that the sequel movies didn't manage: To include a view into the politics and the overall state of the galaxy. And that is an important part of Star Wars. Has always been. That, besides other things like the bad treatment of the characters like Finn and Poe and stupid plot decisions was always one of my main points of criticism for the sequels. To do so, of course you must have an idea about the state of the galaxy, which was obviously not the case for the writers of the sequels, who had more in mind how to stage space fights and nostalgia moments.

[Mattris 416]

I'll make it easier for you, @Demodex. Here are the remaining points and questions that you haven't addressed.

 

My intent is to move our debate/discussion forward because repeating the same points over and over - of which you ignore, dismiss, or doubt their legitimacy - is pointless.

 

Firstly, what you think happened in the sequel trilogy, especially it relates to the previous two trilogies?

 

On 23/04/2023 at 12:30 PM, Demodex said:

Why on Earth would they admit that it was not planned?  They purposely want to look like idiots?  Well good job, because they do. 

 

Can you think of any reason that Lucasfilm would want to look like idiots?

 

Speaking of a plan... In his published Star Wars: Fascinating Facts  book, Pablo Hidalgo (the head of the Lucasfilm Story Group) reveals that the primary elements for the story of the sequel trilogy came from George Lucas. Do you believe him?

 

On 23/04/2023 at 12:30 PM, Demodex said:

The next movie, whether it's Episode X or not, is not filmed yet. And if they bring Palps back again It is going to be laughed at considerably. 

 

So certain are you? With such strong conviction, you should probably have a better idea than "if they bring Palps back again".

 

Why do you think so much was revealed about this 'Rey movie'?

 

Why do you think Kathleen Kennedy said that it wasn't even done being written?

 

On 23/04/2023 at 2:01 PM, Demodex said:

No, they fucked up the trilogy and they want you to think that there was some master plan for the future.

What seems logical to you sounds incredibly illogical to every other person here.  You just have delusions of grandeur.

 

That's not it at all. What happening here is that they want you to think  there wasn't a master plan for the future. (You even said it yourself: 'Everybody knows this.' Yes, everybody knows what they were told by the very people they don't like/trust... and nothing else.)

 

What is illogical about my reasoning? Doubting Lucasfilm's competence and skill to deceive and distract is not counter evidence.

 

On 23/04/2023 at 2:01 PM, Demodex said:

The fact that we are still arguing means you haven't put forth a credible explanation for your conclusions yet.  They make absolutely zero sense.

 

You keep saying this. But the fact is, I've put forth a credible explanation for my conclusions more times than I probably should have.

 

What I'm saying does make sense if Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're incompetent. No plan for the trilogy AND the writer/director of the finale of the Saga was replaced after a script had already been written, two years after he had been hired? You suspect nothing is amiss here? Incompetence only? With stakes this high? All this after the (perceived) upheaval of the Saga that was The Last Jedi?

 

If you think there's nothing fishy about the so-called 'firing of Colin Trevorrow from IX', you should "know or care about the details of Trevorrow's leaks". Just like with Star Wars in general, the details make all the difference. Ignoring details - especially if you're already sure you're right about something - will not make you informed or correct. (It actually means you're more likely to be wrong.)

 

Concerning the truth of all this, you'll eventually realize that so many clues were hidden in plain sight. But the masses just couldn't drop their pride enough to fathom that Lucasfilm intended to trick their audience and succeeded with flying colors.

 

On 23/04/2023 at 12:30 PM, Demodex said:

If after TROS came out they would have said Palpatine's return was the plan from the beginning, we would have accepted that. 

 

I seriously doubt that.

 

Chris Terrio, JJ's co-writer on TROS, said that 'it was Kathleen Kennedy's intention for the Saga to have been telling one story'. We know for a fact that Palpatine was the 'big bad' of the previous two trilogies. Do you think they temporarily forgot this little detail and had to fire Trevorrow because he forgot too?

 

All evidence considered, the explanation seems obvious to me: Lucasfilm wants this audience to keep running with (false) narratives, especially that the Emperor's return wasn't planned because there was no plan at all for the trilogy.  In doing so, they got their audience to assume so much that isn't so. All this because they are looking for maximum shock value with what comes next.

 

Finally, do you concede that it's possible  that my explanation is the correct one?

 

 

Please address everything I've said here. If you respond like you normally do (doubt, saying there's no reason Lucasfilm would do this, calling me crazy, etc.), we will have wasted even more of our time.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

37 minutes ago, Mattris said:

What I'm saying does make sense if Lucasfilm wants their audience to think they're incompetent.

 

Why would they want that?

 

37 minutes ago, Mattris said:

Please address everything I've said here.

 

Yeah, c'mon @Demodex!

[Demodex 557]

🙄🙄🙄

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

59 minutes ago, Mattris said:

So certain are you?

Fuck me, now he's turned into Yoda. 

[Tallguy 3,401]

1 hour ago, Mattris said:

Why do you think Kathleen Kennedy said that it wasn't even done being written?

 

Oh! Oh! I know this one! BECAUSE IT ISN'T DONE BEING WRITTEN!

 

[rough cut 1,714]

I think I will watch the last episodes of Mando S03 that I didn’t see yet.

[Nick1Ø66 4,719]

5 hours ago, Tallguy said:

 

Oh! Oh! I know this one! BECAUSE IT ISN'T DONE BEING WRITTEN!

 

 

Oh you sweet, sweet, summer child. 

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

On 23/04/2023 at 1:40 PM, Mattris said:

 

Movie trilogies that are telling one story, not three separate stories? Which ones?  What about a third movie trilogy as part of one story?

Terminator, Back to the Future, Rambo, Rocky and countless others that weren't planned.

 

Mattris, you sound like someone who was traumatized by the lack of consistency within the canon and now is in constant denial, thinking there were no mistakes, errors and accidents, the good the bad and the ugly were designed as such, it's all part of the plan!

 

But that's just not possible, whenever there are humans involved and monetary interest things will go south somewhere. Even if there was a plan, it would not go exactly the way it was supposed to go. The original trilogy is the prime example of making it up as it goes even with a plan.

[greenturnedblue 372]

10 hours ago, Mattris said:

My intent is to move our debate/discussion forward

 ^ Mattris concedes his argument isn't working

 

10 hours ago, Mattris said:

especially that the Emperor's return wasn't planned

Except LF has been saying they always planned all along to bring Sheev into the fold

 

10 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Why would they want that?

To appear incompetent, on purpose. By doing so alienating the fans and losing out on billions of potential revenue dollars, all part of the plan, of course 

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

6 minutes ago, greenturnedblue said:

To appear incompetent, on purpose. By doing so alienating the fans and losing out on billions of potential revenue dollars, all part of the plan, of course 

 

Now I understand. 

[Brónach 1,302]

could we have an Disenchantment Thread for the Star Wars Disenchantment Thread?

 

11 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

To include a view into the politics and the overall state of the galaxy.

 

yeah but Disney """brand integrity"""

 

(and deflecting this with "it's an adventure movie for kids!!")

[Demodex 557]

Even if the sequel trilogy was planned in advance (which it wasn't), I still have no idea why @Mattris  thinks Episode 10 is already filmed. 

 

It's not even out of pre-production stage yet. There is no evidence to lead anyone to think it's already filmed. 

 

Also, he claims LFL is lying to us because it has something planned that will be so shocking.  I can't think of anything they could do that would shock me enough to justify lying to its audience. 

 

Occam's razor... They aren't lying to us. 

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

That's what they want you to believe. 

[SilverTrumpet 638]

53 minutes ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

 

Why has the art of gif making gone so down the drain that gifs like this are regularly being made now?

[Brónach 1,302]

2 minutes ago, Demodex said:

Even if the sequel trilogy was planned in advance (which it wasn't), I still have no idea why Mattris thinks Episode 10 is already filmed. 

 

It's not even out of pre-production stage yet. There is no evidence to lead anyone to think it's already filmed. 

 

ideas by Mattris that can easily be tested. the entire crew must be lying!

[Edmilson 7,470]

18 minutes ago, Brónach said:

could we have an Disenchantment Thread for the Star Wars Disenchantment Thread?

 

There is a Harry Potter disenchantment thread and I think I remember a Star Trek one. But yeah, we definetly need a thread like you suggested.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

1 minute ago, Edmilson said:

and I think I remember a Star Trek one.

 

That's just the regular trekkie thread. 

[Tallguy 3,401]

5 minutes ago, Jurassic Shark said:

 

That's just the regular trekkie thread. 

 

Star Trek fans are always disenchanted.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

They're many things...

[Demodex 557]

25 minutes ago, Brónach said:

 

ideas by Mattris that can easily be tested

 

What??

[Demodex 557]

13 hours ago, Mattris said:

Finally, do you concede that it's possible  that my explanation is the correct one?

 

You know what?  Yes, I will admit it's possible that you are right about the plan for the sequel trilogy. 

It's possible the Trevorrow script was a fake.

I don't think it's possible Episode X was filmed already though. 

 

Can you say that it's possible the rest of us can be right and we're not total idiots? 

[Mattris 416]

15 hours ago, Demodex said:

Even if the sequel trilogy was planned in advance (which it wasn't), I still have no idea why @Mattris  thinks Episode 10 is already filmed. 

 

It's not even out of pre-production stage yet. There is no evidence to lead anyone to think it's already filmed. 

 

Some pages back, I shared my logic process regarding how I came to the conclusion that Episode X had already been filmed. Shall I copy-paste it for you?

 

A couple of weeks ago, Lucasfilm confirmed that a post-TROS movie is coming and revealed several things about it, things they certainly didn't need to: Rey will feature, what she will be doing, when its set, etc.

 

Few - other than me - expected such an announcement in the near future, so no one would have faulted Lucasfilm for withholding all  information about it. This includes revealing that it's not even done being written. If that's the truth or a lie, why tell this to the world?

 

Now, there is a rumor/report/leak that "Rey isn't the lead" in the film. Thoughts?

 

15 hours ago, Demodex said:

Also, he claims LFL is lying to us because it has something planned that will be so shocking.  I can't think of anything they could do that would shock me enough to justify lying to its audience. 

 

You'll see what it is. And remember, if this is Episode X, there will be two more films to complete the trilogy... and Saga... truly, this time.

 

15 hours ago, Demodex said:

Occam's razor... They aren't lying to us. 

 

Occam's Razor states that, when presented with two explanations, the more-simple explanation is likely the correct one. Regarding Star Wars, the most simple explanation is that there was always a plan, and that plan is still on.

 

12 hours ago, Demodex said:

You know what?  Yes, I will admit it's possible that you are right about the plan for the sequel trilogy. 

It's possible the Trevorrow script was a fake.

I don't think it's possible Episode X was filmed already though.

 

I commend your progress. Why is Episode X having already been made (alongside IX) a bridge too far for you?

 

12 hours ago, Demodex said:

Can you say that it's possible the rest of us can be right and we're not total idiots? 

 

It's possible that the rest of you can be right in the same vein that it's possible that I can be struck by lightning when there is no storm present.

[Gabriel Bezerra 302]

5 hours ago, Mattris said:

Regarding Star Wars, the most simple explanation is that there was always a plan, and that plan is still on.

Quite the contrary actually, the most simple explanation is that things went south, 'cause it's always easier to fail than it is to succeed. The scheming, lying and deceiving you claim is happening at Lucasfilm is the opposite of simple.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

There was always a plan, and the plan was to make money. Mission accomplished!

[Brónach 1,302]

16 hours ago, Demodex said:

 

What??

 

wrong ideas (that the movie already exists), to be precise

[Demodex 557]

7 hours ago, Mattris said:

It's possible that the rest of you can be right in the same vein that it's possible that I can be struck by lightning when there is no storm present.

 

This is why no one likes you. 

[Brónach 1,302]

Unfortunately, no one can be told what the Mattris is. You have to see it for yourself.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

Which one's most convincing - Mattris or Chat GPT?

[Demodex 557]

🤔

[Demodex 557]

10 hours ago, Mattris said:

You'll see what it is

 

Maybe, but I seriously doubt that it's both shocking and satisfying.  Probably one or the other.  

 

My only guess is that in order for Palpatine to not have a body for his essence to inhabit, the Jedi all kill themselves. 

They can be Force ghosts afterwards so why not?

[Mattris 416]

10 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

Quite the contrary actually, the most simple explanation is that things went south, 'cause it's always easier to fail than it is to succeed. The scheming, lying and deceiving you claim is happening at Lucasfilm is the opposite of simple.

 

I'd like to know what you think "went south". What evidence supports your position? Let me remind you that at Star Wars Celebration 2019 - shortly after the Episode IX "Roll it... again" teaser was shown - Kathleen Kennedy was asked directly if bringing back Emperor Palpatine was part of the plan from the beginning. She confirmed this was the case.

 

No, the simplest explanation is that nothing has gone south with Star Wars. Everything is proceeding as planned.

 

What's happening couldn't be clearer to me: Lucasfilm don't want the masses to figure out what they've been doing. So they adhere to a marketing/presentation strategy to keep their secrets. The audience becomes distracted by rumors, opinions, assumptions, and group think. All the unexpected, unwanted things coming out of Star Wars as of late are perceived as general incompetency... that Lucasfilm doesn't know or care what the fans want. This is a mistaken assessment of what really happening. This is how Lucasfilm are so successful in what they're doing... what they have always been doing.

 

But there's far more substance than distraction. The vast majority of these clues and elements of foreshadowing can be found within the Star Wars canon, starting with the 1976 film novelization. All told, the content of these volumes prove there was always a plan for Star Wars. Though, one must have a certain point of view to decode it all.

 

Consistent with the "effective Jedi trap", the Star Wars audience is currently on the far side of the galaxy so as not to interfere with their real plans. So that by the time the audience realizes what has happened, it will be already too late.

[Jurassic Shark 12,083]

8 hours ago, Gabriel Bezerra said:

The scheming, lying and deceiving you claim is happening at Lucasfilm is the opposite of simple.

 

To be fair this is what Lucas has been doing for decades, according to @Chen G..

[Chen G. 3,950]

Not according to me: there are books on this topic!

[A. A. Ron 1,742]

7 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Which one's most convincing - Mattris or Chat GPT?

 

Perhaps Mattris was Chat GPT all along!

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

15 hours ago, Mattris said:

It's possible that the rest of you can be right in the same vein that it's possible that I can be struck by lightning when there is no storm present.

 

 

15 minutes ago, A. A. Ron said:

Perhaps Mattris was Chat GPT all along!

 

He's the pre-alpha test build!

 

15 hours ago, Mattris said:

Now, there is a rumor/report/leak that "Rey isn't the lead" in the film. Thoughts?

 

Gonna need a source considering most "leaks" are fake. Remember the Photoshopped image of pregnant Rey circling around like a week ago?

[Demodex 557]

19 hours ago, Mattris said:

I'd like to know what you think "went south". What evidence supports your position?

 

How about how divisive TLJ was?  That half of SW fans, including you, hated it?   Was that all part of the plan?

 

 

19 hours ago, Mattris said:

The vast majority of these clues and elements of foreshadowing can be found within the Star Wars canon, starting with the 1976 film novelization.

 

I know what it is now!

 

 

 

17 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Gonna need a source considering most "leaks" are fake

 

https://www.comingsoon.net/movies/news/1283375-daisy-ridley-wont-be-the-lead-of-new-star-wars-movie

 

Could be true or total bullshit. Who knows. I don't even care. 

[Mattris 416]

3 hours ago, Manakin Skywalker said:

Gonna need a source considering most "leaks" are fake. Remember the Photoshopped image of pregnant Rey circling around like a week ago?

 

I say that most "leaks" are not leaks.  They are bits of 'info'  Lucasfilm intentionally releases to the public to suit their intended purpose. I say this because they have proved themselves more than capable of keeping big secrets.

 

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

How about how divisive TLJ was?  That half of SW fans, including you, hated it?   Was that all part of the plan?

 

A movie being divisive does not mean things 'went south'. It's not the job of the storytellers to please the audience - or make the most money possible - with each episode or volume of Star Wars. It's their job to tell their story.

 

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

I know what it is now!

 

I already posted more than enough years ago.

 

2 hours ago, Demodex said:

Could be true or total bullshit. Who knows. I don't even care. 

 

If the film isn't even finished being written, how can anyone know what Rey's specific role is relative to another character? Rey is not the lead? Why would something like this be made up? If this is real, how could it possibly have leaked?

[Demodex 557]

It's probably written by now. 

It's not filmed yet, so things can change. 

 

It was probably intentional, not leaked. But who cares?

 

 

52 minutes ago, Mattris said:

It's not the job of the storytellers to please the audience with each episode or volume of Star Wars. It's their job to tell the story.

 

You didn't seem to have this attitude when TLJ came out.  And I find it hard to believe that Disney doesn't care what the audience thinks since movies people like make more money. 

But then again they did release TROS so who knows. 

[Manakin Skywalker 4,897]

2 hours ago, Mattris said:

I say that most "leaks" are not leaks.  They are bits of 'info'  Lucasfilm intentionally releases to the public to suit their intended purpose. I say this because they have proved themselves more than capable of keeping big secrets.

 

I'll admit some of it could be. But if it's from someone like Mike Zeroh then it's for the purpose of generating revenue on YouTube, or if from Reddit it's usually for clout or as posted a prank (like the pregnant Rey photo, which the creator made as a joke).

[Sweeping Strings 2,363]

'A movie being divisive does not mean things 'went south'. It's not the job of the storytellers to please the audience - or make the most money possible - with each episode or volume of Star Wars. It's their job to tell their story.'

The makers of Solo might disagree with it not being about 'making the most money possible'.       

[Tallguy 3,401]

9 hours ago, Demodex said:

But then again they did release TROS so who knows. 

 

Rise of Skywalker was an even safer play than The Force Awakens.