Remaster vs original master

[CuriousMan 16]

Who prefers film scores in their original/analog master quality, without these 'enhancements' referred to?

[Holko 9,529]

Purely depends on which one sounds better.

[blondheim 1,157]

In some cases I have both, like Star Trek TMP. Partly because I needed to have all the OSTs to line up next to each other like a nerdy little collector.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

16 minutes ago, CuriousMan said:

enhancements

 

I prefer those with screensavers.

[Bespin 8,483]

I love the "three" stages, well what I call the three stages of musical editing. For artists I collect, like Roy Orbison and Joe Dassin, I always keep the original CDs when remasters are issued... so I have three versions to chose from. Same thing with John Williams, I collect the original CDs too.

 

1 - The Original recording 

2 - The Remastered original Master recording

3 - The Remastered multitracks 

 

 

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

1 hour ago, CuriousMan said:

Who prefers film scores in their original/analog master quality, without these 'enhancements' referred to?

 

@Thor prefers that.

[bollemanneke 3,349]

I want to hear Thor's opinion on this.

[Chewy 2,391]

4 hours ago, CuriousMan said:

Who prefers film scores in their original/analog master quality, without these 'enhancements' referred to?

 

Remastering done by Mike Matessino : The remaster.

Remastering done by Shawn Murphy : The original master.

[Datameister 2,044]

5 hours ago, Holko said:

Purely depends on which one sounds better.

 

This. In the world of remasters by the small film score labels like LLL and Intrada, I usually end up preferring the remaster. But there's no guarantee of that. I prefer the sound of the Jurassic Park OST over the sound of the remaster, for instance, yet I'm fine with the remastered TLW in the same set.

 

My least favorite remaster has got to be the Legacy Collection release of The Lion King. It's a completely new mix of the live recordings and synth elements that I find vastly inferior to the original across the board.

 

At the other end of the spectrum, compare the old Rhino release of Superman to the 40th anniversary LLL release. Night and day, with the latter providing a much more enjoyable listen. It captures the writing and the performances so much better.

 

In some cases, it may be a mixed bag. I love the sound of the first and fifth Star Trek scores' expanded releases, except for a certain metallic quality to the reverb tails.

 

So yep, totally case by case for me.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

Generally the original master has better dynamics, but people here hate that because their sound systems suck, so they prefer the brighter and louder remasters. Generally they prefer it brickwalled so they can hear it in the subway.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,539]

Agreed, Jerry.

I have an original WEA pressing CD, and a few of the tracks, on a remastered "best of". The original CD brings out the nuances of the recording, while the remastered tracks are so loud that I need to turn the volume down...but then I can't hear the music.

[Jay 37,369]

23 hours ago, Holko said:

Purely depends on which one sounds better.

 

17 hours ago, Datameister said:

In the world of remasters by the small film score labels like LLL and Intrada, I usually end up preferring the remaster. But there's no guarantee of that.

 

So yep, totally case by case for me.

 

THIS

[Matt C 454]

Definitely case by case basis. 

 

Is it considered a remastering if the original elements were pristine and simply remixed? I'm thinking of Intrada's splendid OOP release of Horner's Something Wicked This Way Comes.

 

Shawn Murphy originally mixed and recorded the score -- but Simon Rhodes did the final album mix and mastering. The album sounds like it could be recorded yesterday.

[A24 4,338]

Who did the Indiana Jones The Soundtracks Collection? They should lock him up.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

Don't pretend you don't know it was produced by ol' Boozer.

[A24 4,338]

I did notice it has sold out and people are now asking 100 Euro for it. 

 

My copy is pristine! Let the bidding begin!

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I'll pay you a dollar.

[Thor 7,508]

On 11/14/2020 at 10:42 PM, bollemanneke said:

I want to hear Thor's opinion on this.

 

I don't really care one way or the other. As long as the sound is good, I'm OK.

[mstrox 6,651]

A lot of time I can’t tell the difference.  When I can, that means it’s either a dramatic improvement or a big screw-up.

[Naïve Old Fart 9,539]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

I did notice it has sold out and people are now asking 100 Euro for it. 

 

My copy is pristine! Let the bidding begin!

I'll give you $100.

[Unlucky Bastard 7,782]

1 hour ago, AC1 said:

Let the bidding begin!

 

MANIACS!

[Schilkeman 964]

Bumping this as it's something I've been thinking about a lot lately. My priority as a listener and collector is John Williams, and all of his remasters have been done by Matessino, who I think does excellent work, but he has a sound concept I don't always enjoy, and that, combined with a nagging feeling that I really don't like expansions for the most part, has led me to rethink my collection, and move back toward original albums. 

 

Exceptions to this, for me, are albums from the pre-CD era, as the masters done for those were often of questionable quality when put on CD. I don't think I'll be getting rid of Superman or The Eiger Sanction, etc any time soon, but I legit might sell the rest of the later stuff. I don't know.

[Thor 7,508]

10 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

 but he has a sound concept I don't always enjoy, and that, combined with a nagging feeling that I really don't like expansions for the most part, has led me to rethink my collection, and move back toward original albums. 

 

This warms my old and weary heart.

[Schilkeman 964]

5 minutes ago, Thor said:

 

This warms my old and weary heart.

[mstrox 6,651]

Genuinely it’s rare when I can tell a significant difference in mixing and mastering.  I really only notice it when I find the OST CD pretty objectionable - muddy things like the Superman or Star Wars OST CDs.

 

Editing to add that I didn’t scroll up, but apparently I said similar like three years ago.

[A24 4,338]

The remastered ones are much louder. To most people louder means better.

[Schilkeman 964]

10 hours ago, A24 said:

The remastered ones are much louder. To most people louder means better.

I mean, we get bad ones like the Concord Indy set that’s blown out and clipping, but MM’s don’t do that. My issue with his is the compressed dynamic range and the goosed bass. With the former, we do get more detail, but I think it’s at the expense of the blending of orchestral colors. The bass is just over-done and unnatural. 

[Datameister 2,044]

I stand by my comments from 3 years ago. Totally case by case for me.

[Andy 4,138]

19 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

My issue with his is the compressed dynamic range and the goosed bass. With the former, we do get more detail, but I think it’s at the expense of the blending of orchestral colors. The bass is just over-done and unnatural. 

Just curious, can you cite examples of the offenders that are most bothersome to you?

[Schilkeman 964]

On 06/12/2023 at 4:32 PM, Andy said:

Just curious, can you cite examples of the offenders that are most bothersome to you?

I find most of Jurassic Park is like I stated above, but as soon as I get a chance (and the site isn't down) I'll provide some more specific examples.

[A24 4,338]

Jurassic Park sounds like it's been pulled through an Aural Exciter. This is not how an orchestra sounds but I guess that's why people like Stefancos (remember him?) love it.

[Schilkeman 964]

1 hour ago, A24 said:

Jurassic Park sounds like it's been pulled through an Aural Exciter. This is not how an orchestra sounds but I guess that's why people like Stefancos (remember him?) love it.

Are you talking about the new one? The original ost is beautiful and balanced. The brass blends well with the winds, and the bass is much more natural. Also, the dynamic range is wider. "Doesn't sound like an orchestra" is the exact wording I used for it. Throw the Harry Potter expansions on there as ones that leave me wanting for the original.

 

E.T....MM was never going to top the original. It's one of the best sounding CDs I've ever heard. The remaster brings out some weirdness with the reverb that is less pronounced in the original...and too much bass

 

 

[A24 4,338]

2 minutes ago, Schilkeman said:

Are you talking about the new one? The original ost is beautiful and balanced. The brass blends well with the winds, and the bass is much more natural. Also, the dynamic range is wider. "Doesn't sound like an orchestra" is the exact wording I used for it. Throw the Harry Potter expansions on there as ones that leave me wanting for the original.

 

Yes, I'm talking about the original. If you know what an Aural Exciter does, then you know what I'm talking about. 

 

https://aphex.com/products/exciter

[Schilkeman 964]

10 minutes ago, A24 said:

 

Yes, I'm talking about the original. If you know what an Aural Exciter does, then you know what I'm talking about. 

 

https://aphex.com/products/exciter

I have no idea what it does, but I suppose we'll just disagree. This is all, of course, highly subjective, and I don't expect most will agree with me. It's how my ears hear it. Playing trumpet in a tiny room for 20 years did them no favors, so maybe I just perceive the recordings differently.

[A24 4,338]

So there is a remastered version that sounds different? 

[Schilkeman 964]

15 minutes ago, A24 said:

So there is a remastered version that sounds different? 

Don't know if joking....

 

Yes, the LLL remaster vs the 1993 original Jurassic Park. I prefer the original.

[A24 4,338]

7 hours ago, Schilkeman said:

Don't know if joking....

 

Yes, the LLL remaster vs the 1993 original Jurassic Park. I prefer the original.

 

I'm not joking. The thing is, I'm not a huge Jurassic Park/World fan so I don't really follow it. Actually, I'm not a huge 'remaster' fan in general. But I do want to hear the difference in SQ of Jurassic Park OST and the LLL remaster. Maybe I can find it on Amazon Music.

[Jay 37,369]

LLL's remastered expansion is only sold on physical CD.

 

Their website has numerous samples you can listen to to compare

 

https://lalalandrecords.com/jurassic-park-limited-edition-2-cd-set/

[Schilkeman 964]

Yeah, I've decided. I'm selling most of my expansions. Hook was a crossroads, and I had to do some thinking as to whether I was buying these out of fomo, sunk-cost fallacy, or if I genuinely want all that music. For the most part, I've been listening to the album assemblies, and where I have them, the original masters, almost 5 to 1 over the expansions. I think my actions have decided for me.

 

I will, however, mortgage my house and sell my children to buy Star Wars expansions, as soon as the Gods deem us worthy to have them.

[Andy 4,138]

Oh no!  The Never Feast was the breaking point!

But seriously although you might not listen to the expansions all the time, don’t you enjoy them for their historical value or as a reference piece for understanding the complexity of how the album arrangements came about?  They’re also nice keepsakes even if you haven’t warmed to the remastering.  I’d keep them. Unless you really need the cash. 

[Schilkeman 964]

10 minutes ago, Andy said:

Oh no!  The Never Feast was the breaking point!

But seriously although you might not listen to the expansions all the time, don’t you enjoy them for their historical value or as a reference piece for understanding the complexity of how the album arrangements came about?  They’re also nice keepsakes even if you haven’t warmed to the remastering.  I’d keep them. Unless you really need the cash. 

I mean, sure. But I really buy the idea that the composer arranged this stuff to be listened to a certain way. To me, it's kind of like adding all the deleted scenes back into a movie. It's interesting once or twice, to see how things might have gone, but I find it breaks the flow of the experience.

 

I find no value in keeping things I don't use, unless it's related to my kids. I'd rather they no longer occupy my headspace (or actual space). 

[Thor 7,508]

I say again: So refreshing to read your thoughts on this, Schilkeman. I often feel like it's just myself against everyone else.

[Jurassic Shark 12,079]

I prefer that the composer rearranges the score for an optimum listening experience. A drawback is that good music can be left out, and for an accomplished composer like John Williams it can be enjoyable to listen to the complete score. 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

To me this basic discussion on prefereces for OST edits or complete scores make hardly any sense. I would even impute stubbornness to anyone claiming always the one or the other position. Some scores work very well in their complete form where all the themes and motifs get their room to breath and bloom. And other scores work best in their condensed form as an OST with their album edits and rearrangements. Other scores are best represented and enjoyable by a 10 to 20 minutes suite arranged by the composer for the concert hall.

It always depends. Some expansions bore me to death. Sometimes they just contain two or three tracks that I wouldn't want to miss and apart from these I prefer the OST. But it is always good to have the choice. 

I said it before, John Williams is basically the only soundtrack composer where I am interested in expansions. But even there I struggle sometimes with the program.

[Holko 9,529]

14 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

To me this basic discussion on prefereces for [] or [] make hardly any sense. I would even impute stubbornness to anyone claiming always the one or the other position.

 

14 minutes ago, GerateWohl said:

John Williams is basically the only soundtrack composer where I am interested in expansions

hmmmmm

[GerateWohl 4,370]

1 minute ago, Holko said:

 

hmmmmm

Yes?

[A24 4,338]

Another messed up OST would be The Witches Of Eastwick. I never heard the remaster but I know the 'unoffical' version sound a lot more natural (sans audibly EQ job).

 

 

[GerateWohl 4,370]

But apart from the sound issues the collection of tracks for The Witches of Eastwick is for me an example of a good OST, that covers all the major stuff.

[Gurkensalat 340]

On 8/12/2023 at 8:52 AM, Schilkeman said:

Throw the Harry Potter expansions on there as ones that leave me wanting for the original.

 

I agree that there is too much dynamic compression going on, at least in HP 1. The recordings session sound much better. But I mostly listen to soundtracks on the bike or in the car, so there dynamic compression is a good thing. Not at home for critical listening, though.

[Schilkeman 964]

20 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

But even there I struggle sometimes with the program.

Minority Report was my first red flag, as I thought for sure that the expansion was going to blow my mind, but I found myself constantly missing the edits. The action cues feel disjointed without the film to bind them together, and there's a lot of "sneaking around" music that isn't all that interesting. 

 

This idea that film scores need room to breathe, or some such, doesn't really hold for me. Symphonies open with themes, and then develop from there, and I find that is what Williams does in his OSTs. They make musical sense, not narrative sense, and I'm fine with that. If I want narrative, I'll watch the movie. Film music occupies a weird space between absolute and program music. I want it to be more the former than the latter.

15 hours ago, Gurkensalat said:

I agree that there is too much dynamic compression going on, at least in HP 1. The recordings session sound much better. But I mostly listen to soundtracks on the bike or in the car, so there dynamic compression is a good thing. Not at home for critical listening, though.

This reminds me of the debate about shooting films and TV for phone screens. Should that be the default style if most people are viewing it that way, or should directors continue to shoot for "ideal" viewing conditions knowing that it will be "compromised" for most people? For orchestral music, I want all the dynamic range I can get. That's just me, though.