Popular Post Archive Collection 218 Posted January 31, 2022 Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2022 Elliot Goldenthal's score to Batman & Robin has never received a proper release on CD. Goldenthal's Batman Forever received the LLL treatment in 2012, with a generous 2-CD release. Almost 10 years later, Batman & Robin still hasn't received a score release of any kind. Most of the score has leaked - between the partial recording sessions leak, the cancelled score album and the bootleg created from the film's music stem. I've heard people speculate that this is because of the dispute between Warner Bros. and Goldenthal over Tyler Bates' 300 score (that lifted several sections of Goldenthal's score to Titus) – apparently Goldenthal and Warner Bros. are not on good terms, and therefore neither have chosen to proceed with a new CD release. However, I'm not sure whether this is accurate. The 300 debacle happened in 2007, and five years later, Batman Forever received an expanded release. Goldenthal seems to be on good terms with LLL as well, since he approved their 2018 release of Alien 3. I've heard others speculate that the score hasn't been released due to the similarities between the scores for Batman & Robin and Demolition Man (both written by Goldenthal, for films distributed by Warner Bros.). However, I still have some doubt over this as well - Warner Bros. owns the rights to both film scores, and Goldenthal was the sole composer for both films. He hasn't stolen material from anyone, just built upon his own pre-exisiting work, which is standard practice for composers. Surely there wouldn't be any significant rights issues here? Moreover, Goldenthal has included sections from this score in his recent "Grand Gothic Suite" (his concert suite of themes from both of his Batman scores). So it doesn't seem that Goldenthal is opposed to revisiting this score. It seems like such a missed opportunity not to give this score a proper expanded release. Since the score never received a proper release, I believe LLL would even be allowed to release the score to digital platforms (just as they did with Courage's Superman IV). Has the team from LLL ever given the official reason why there hasn't been a release for B&R? revdelvo, Davis, Tiburon and 1 other 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,321 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I wish I had some valuable insight. But I would definitely purchase an expansion (and I sadly missed the Batman Forever expansion). Whats this “Grand Gothic Suite”? That sounds incredible! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,403 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I'd buy his album version.😄 One. Disc. But, knowing the labels, they would release a multi- disc version.😒 Pass. Davis and Archive Collection 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 6 hours ago, WampaRat said: I wish I had some valuable insight. But I would definitely purchase an expansion (and I sadly missed the Batman Forever expansion). Whats this “Grand Gothic Suite”? That sounds incredible! Here's some information from Goldenthal's website! https://www.elliotgoldenthal.com/grand-gothic-suite And here's a recording: https://elliot-goldenthal.s3.amazonaws.com/The+Grand+Gothic+Suite.mp3 There hasn't been a great recording of it yet, but this is the most compete/best quality performance I could find. WampaRat 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naïve Old Fart 10,795 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I can say, with complete confidence, that it either will be released, or it won't. A. A. Ron and Archive Collection 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,739 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 3 hours ago, Archive Collection said: I've heard people speculate that this is because of the dispute between Warner Bros. and Goldenthal over Tyler Bates' 300 score (that lifted several sections of Goldenthal's score to Titus) – apparently Goldenthal and Warner Bros. are not on good terms, and therefore neither have chosen to proceed with a new CD release. However, I'm not sure whether this is accurate. The 300 debacle happened in 2007, and five years later, Batman Forever received an expanded release. Goldenthal seems to be on good terms with LLL as well, since he approved their 2018 release of Alien 3. Yes, but we don't know how long it took for the Batman Forever expansion to be put together. Might have been years for all we know. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,403 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Did BF really NEED expanding?* *That's a rhetorical question😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,305 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 The 300 lawsuit thing is completely true. Forever was licensed before the lawsuit, it simply took a long time to finally release. No WB Goldenthal scores have been licensed to anyone since. MrJosh, Davis, Edmilson and 1 other 1 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 46 minutes ago, Jay said: The 300 lawsuit thing is completely true. Forever was licensed before the lawsuit, it simply took a long time to finally release. No WB Goldenthal scores have been licensed to anyone since. Wow… so it took at least 5 years to release Batman Forever. I suppose they could have licensed it around the same time they were planning the two Elfman CD’s, and they just waited to release those first… I noticed that the information for B&R’s score was updated on GEMA, roughly a year ago. I don’t think any new cue titles were added, but the entries were definitely updated (the work numbers and catalogue numbers were completely different, I believe). Not sure what the implications of this are. Hopefully one day we’ll get to hear the score in an official release. For now, I’ll have to stick the the numerous bootleg versions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 15,125 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Yeah I definitely wouldn't use the release of Alien 3 as any indication of traction on B&R happening... totally separate studio and Goldenthal's beef was with WB, not Fox. MV commented on the possibility of a reprint of Batman Returns (in April 2018) and it seemed like nothing had changed. Quote Nope. Too complicated of a deal and I highly doubt given the nature of the soundtrack that it could happen again MV Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted January 31, 2022 Author Share Posted January 31, 2022 Sounds like it won’t be happening anytime soon. At least most of the score has leaked out already… Speaking of which, I’ve spent quite a bit of time identifying the original cue numbers/titles and information for the score. If anyone wants me to post this, I will. crumbs 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 15,125 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Absolutely, always happy to see new threads as a resource for scores! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Archive Collection 218 Posted January 31, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2022 Here’s a simplified version of the Cue List. When I have the time, I’ll post a more detailed version, which has all of the inserts, revisions, alternates, etc. It’ll take a bit more time to sort it all out. I’ll also try to finish up my personal Google Sheet (comparing the various sources: the sheets, GEMA cues, session leak, cancelled album and isolated score bootleg). If anyone wants to use it for the ‘Non-Williams’ info thread, that’s fine with me! For now, here’s a short version of the cue list. All of the cue titles are official. Sources: Handwritten Score Sheets, GEMA, Recording Session Leak 1M1-2 Front Titles / Dressing 1M3 Pt. 1 The Batcave Part 1 1M3 Pt. 2 The Batcave Part 2 1M3 Pt. 3 The Batcave Part 3 1M4 Scene Of The Crime 1M5 The Diamond 1M6 Batman Thwarts Freeze 1M7 Pt. 1 Hockey Hell Part 1 1M7 Pt. 2 Hockey Hell Part 1 1M8 Frozen Brontosaurus 1M9 Hockey Hell Part 2 2M10-11 Freeze's Getaway 2M12 Freeze Evacuates Capsule 2M13-14 Aerial Chase / Chase In Freeze's Lair 2M15 Batman Thaws Robin 3M16-17-18 Jungle Lab / Bane's Birth / Bane's Activation / Woodrue Kills Ivy 3M21 Alfred In Pain 4M23 Pt. 1 Botticelli Ivy 4M23 Pt. 2 Botticelli Ivy 4M25-26 Frosty And Snow Bunny / One More Giant Diamond 4M27 Nora In Vitro 4M28 Reunion 4M29 Motorbikephilia Part 1 4M30 A Fireside Chat 4M31 Motorbikephilia Part 2 5M32 Ivy Arrives In Town 5M33-34R Observatory Press 5M34 Ivy At Press Conference 5M35-36 Ivy States Her Case 5M37 Bruce Invites Ivy 5M38 Freeze In Love 5M39 Freeze Takes The Bait 6M41 Gotham Ball 6M42 Poison Ivy 6M43 Pheremone Dust 1 6M44 The Auction 6M45 The Uninvited Guest 6M46 Freeze Meets Ivy 6M47 Freeze Takes Necklace 6M48 [No Title] 6M49 Chase Around Colossus 7M50-51 Mystery Of Fate 7M52 Arkham Asylum 7M53 Freeze Incarcerated 7M54 Ivy House Hunting 7M56 Bane Throws Tenants Out 7M57-58 Let's Redecorate 8M59 Besotted With Ivy 8M60 Dick Follows Barbara 8M63 The Precipice 8M64 Barb Reveals Her Past 8M65 Barb Explains Al's Sickness 9M66 The Figurine 9M67-68 Freeze Receives Visitor 9M69 Pt. 1 [No Title] 9M69 Pt. 2 [No Title] 9M70 Unmasked Heroes 9M71 Snowycones Factory 9M72-75 Freeze Turns On Air Cond. / Freeze Makes His Getaway 9M76 Ivy Fails To Ensnare Robin 10M77 Ivy Switches Off Nora 10M78 Freeze Swears Revenge 10M79 Alfred In Sickbed 10M80 Robin Is Jealous 10M82 Sacred Trust 10M83 The Grand Unveiling 10M83S Unveiling Jazz 10M84 Ivy Ensnares Commissioner G. 10M85 Freeze Starts Campaign 10M86 Bane Steals The Signal 10M87 Barb Searches Password 11M88-89 Fillial Love 11M90 Freeze Arrives At Observatory Part 1 11M91 Freeze Arrives At Observatory Part 2 11M92 Freeze Activates Scopes 11M93 Pt. 1 Barb Becomes Batgirl 11M93 Pt. 2 Barbara Dresses 13M94 Robin In Ivy's Lair 13M95 Ivy Foiled 13M96-97 Batgirl Introduces Herself 13M98 Freeze Gloats 13M99 Batmobile Strike Force 13M100 Bring Me The Bat 14M101 Bat Trio Enter Observatory 14M102 The Final Stand Part 1 14M103 The Final Stand Part 2 14M105 Warming Up Freeze 14M106 Nemesis 14M107 Batrobatics 14M108 Realigning Satellites 14M109 The Great Thaw Part 1 15M109 The Great Thaw Part 2 15M109A The Great Thaw Part 3 15M110 Batman Appeals To Freeze 15M111 The Medicine 15M112 Defrostation Of Ivy 15M113 Resurrection Of The Family 15M114 Bat Triumvirate revdelvo, Edmilson, HunterTech and 2 others 2 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crumbs 15,125 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Wow, that's a lot of music! I've never really listened to Goldenthal's scores (hate the films) but I've been meaning to try them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Disco Stu 15,504 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 BOY are Goldenthal's scores a lot of fun. But then again I have a soft spot for the films. I'd rather watch ludicrous camp like Batman Forever over self-serious slogs like the Nolan films any day. MrJosh and WampaRat 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Archive Collection 218 Posted January 31, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted January 31, 2022 5 minutes ago, crypto said: Wow, that's a lot of music! I've never really listened to Goldenthal's scores (hate the films) but I've been meaning to try them. There certainly is a lot of music for Batman & Robin, I think there’s about 1h 55m of music in the film, which is just over 2 hours long - so it’s almost wall-to-wall music. Goldenthal’s Batman scores are my personal favourite of all the Batman films. They were so much more intelligent than the films they accompanied. Goldenthal’s score really elevated the films for me, and I can actually find a lot of enjoyment in BF and B&R, just because of how much I love the music. 25 minutes ago, Disco Stu said: BOY are they a lot of fun. But then again I have a soft spot for the films. I'd rather watch ludicrous camp like Batman Forever over self-serious slogs like the Nolan films any day. Goldenthal’s writing for both films is brilliant. His style and compositional approach are truly unique and instantly recognisable, while still fitting the tone of the films perfectly. It’s a shame studios don’t have the courage to hire him to take on a contemporary superhero film. From listening to interviews, it sounds like he enjoyed the experience of scoring both films. MrJosh, HunterTech and Davis 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 245 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Just to make sure I got it right, WB is not good with Goldenthal because Tyler Bates copied Goldenthals music for 300. Is this correct? BTW thanks for the cue titles. I had to watch the entire movie to make my own titles. Never going to do this again... Here's a "best of" of my titles: "Defreezing Robin" (2m15) "Iceman Watches A Movie" (5m38) "Iceman Makes A Party Cooler" (6m45) "My Exit Cue" (6m47) "Disabling Robin" (6m49) "Freeze Doesn't Like The Warm" (7m53) "Icehead's Old Lady" (9m66) "Icehead's New Lady" (9m67) "My Vines Have A Crush On You" (13m95) "Freeze Freezing Gotham" (13m98) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jay 40,305 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 8 minutes ago, David Müller said: Just to make sure I got it right, WB is not good with Goldenthal because Tyler Bates copied Goldenthals music for 300. Is this correct? Basically. Here's some more info https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/300_Original_Motion_Picture_Soundtrack#Copyright_issues https://www.filmscoremonthly.com/board/posts.cfm?threadID=43965&forumID=1&archive=0 https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0120866/trivia https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0416449/trivia MrJosh 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 245 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 wow. thats really, really stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,343 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 The two Batman scores Goldenthal wrote are, IMHO, the best super hero music ever written. I would buy this in a heartbeat HunterTech and Marian Schedenig 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raiders of the SoundtrArk 2,528 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 Well Superman is better but yeah those two are grails really needed Davis and Demondm810 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bruce marshall 1,403 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I posted my B + R playlist in ANOTHER thread about this score Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mstrox 6,991 Posted January 31, 2022 Share Posted January 31, 2022 I’m sure WB’s blacklisting of Goldenthal has kept many others from speaking out about blatant temp lifts. Gross all around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave 245 Posted February 1, 2022 Share Posted February 1, 2022 well... Tyler still does his very best to imitate Elfman, Desplat aaaaaaaannnnd Goldenthal: "Everyone's an Idiot" from Guardians of the Galaxy 1 https://youtu.be/EwzoVILkCdU?list=OLAK5uy_lK9yvYjzZZJBK2W06woFfwULuupPLuU4I&t=12 is basically"The Batman Theme" from Batman 1 (1989) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoaU3kRFvLg "Guardians United" from Guardians of the Galaxy 1https://youtu.be/VH_Q5flTqYs?list=OLAK5uy_lK9yvYjzZZJBK2W06woFfwULuupPLuU4I&t=9 is very similar to"Voldemort's End" from Harry Potter 7.2 https://youtu.be/qvQl1kF2zFY?t=18 "Kraglin and Drax" from Guardians of the Galaxy 2https://youtu.be/e5VLAzWvVMA?list=OLAK5uy_k-SsCuvDq28o7yxAMmzzBvzoN08LYYiEQ&t=74 could by inspired by this magnificence"Main Titles & Fanfare" from Batman 3 https://youtu.be/E7NUT1ehGOo?list=PLnpIGDCblPQX5RzM9lOwEqezQ4fZxOEGW&t=13 revdelvo, DangerMotif, Archive Collection and 1 other 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted February 2, 2022 Author Share Posted February 2, 2022 17 hours ago, David Müller said: well... Tyler still does his very best to imitate Elfman, Desplat aaaaaaaannnnd Goldenthal: "Everyone's an Idiot" from Guardians of the Galaxy 1 https://youtu.be/EwzoVILkCdU?list=OLAK5uy_lK9yvYjzZZJBK2W06woFfwULuupPLuU4I&t=12 is basically"The Batman Theme" from Batman 1 (1989) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YoaU3kRFvLg "Guardians United" from Guardians of the Galaxy 1https://youtu.be/VH_Q5flTqYs?list=OLAK5uy_lK9yvYjzZZJBK2W06woFfwULuupPLuU4I&t=9 is very similar to"Voldemort's End" from Harry Potter 7.2 https://youtu.be/qvQl1kF2zFY?t=18 "Kraglin and Drax" from Guardians of the Galaxy 2https://youtu.be/e5VLAzWvVMA?list=OLAK5uy_k-SsCuvDq28o7yxAMmzzBvzoN08LYYiEQ&t=74 could by inspired by this magnificence"Main Titles & Fanfare" from Batman 3 https://youtu.be/E7NUT1ehGOo?list=PLnpIGDCblPQX5RzM9lOwEqezQ4fZxOEGW&t=13 Oh man... those last two especially... MidwayHigh19 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 8,701 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 I wish someone released the beautifully curated score album that Goldenthal prepared at the time. I own it already, but it needs to be out there, commercially. MidwayHigh19 and bruce marshall 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,810 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 1 hour ago, Thor said: I wish someone released the beautifully curated score album that Goldenthal prepared at the time. I own it already, but it needs to be out there, commercially. Any chance of listing what tracks he had proposed for this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor 8,701 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 4 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Any chance of listing what tracks he had proposed for this? Raiders of the SoundtrArk and Tom Guernsey 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,343 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 It's a particularly good album assembly, I agree. And a better summation of the complete score than the Batman Forever OST. If they ever release this score, I hope they include it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,739 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 One thing it is missing though is Telescope Destroyed. Or the first half of it anyway with the brilliant triumphant statement of Batman's theme. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GerateWohl 5,344 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 In my view Goldenthal is rather a bulky composer. Probably, He is too ingenious for my little brain. I have an album of his chamber music. It sounds to me like he opened a notation program on his computer and hit randomly hands and head on the keyboard, pressed "print" at the end and handed the result to various chamber ensembles. I believe, that it is challenging high quality music, but a little too challenging for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jurassic Shark 13,741 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 27 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: It sounds to me like he opened a notation program on his computer and hit randomly hands and head on the keyboard Correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,810 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 2 hours ago, Thor said: Will give that a go. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Romão 2,343 Posted February 2, 2022 Share Posted February 2, 2022 56 minutes ago, GerateWohl said: In my view Goldenthal is rather a bulky composer. Probably, He is too ingenious for my little brain. I have an album of his chamber music. It sounds to me like he opened a notation program on his computer and hit randomly hands and head on the keyboard, pressed "print" at the end and handed the result to various chamber ensembles. I believe, that it is challenging high quality music, but a little too challenging for me. But there's not anything particularly challenging about his Batman music. It is simultaneously acessbible, smart and interesting Davis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,321 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 Sorry to bump an old thread. We just watched B&R for the first time in ages. What started as a “hate-watch” evolved into a genuine fascination for such a go-for-broke bananas 2 hour toy commercial. Goldenthals score on the other hand is just as vibrant colorful as the movies production design. I did notice he reuses a handful of motifs from Batman Forever (Chase’s theme pops up as a generic Bruce Wayne romance motif, Nygmas 4 note repeating zany motif crops up a time or two to denote a “mystery”, even a bit if the two-face waltz appears in the action scenes.) Wonder if it was Goldenthals idea? or if it was was just temp-trac bleed through? Was there a particularly crazy schedule for scoring this film that caused him to reuse some stuff? Naïve Old Fart 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DangerMotif 1,163 Posted July 20, 2022 Share Posted July 20, 2022 it’s still interesting how little of his music is available to buy or stream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 On 21/07/2022 at 5:07 AM, WampaRat said: Wonder if it was Goldenthals idea? or if it was was just temp-trac bleed through? Was there a particularly crazy schedule for scoring this film that caused him to reuse some stuff? Goldenthal, like many composers, re-uses/quotes his prior works in his scores. I'm inclined to believe that this was his choice. There are bits of Interview With The Vampire, Alien 3 and Demolition Man in both of his Batman scores. Sections from IWTV, Alien 3 show up in Titus. Incidental material from Titus appears in The Glorias. His Symphony No. 2 is built around material from Sphere and Final Fantasy. WampaRat and Davis 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,810 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 2 hours ago, Archive Collection said: Goldenthal, like many composers, re-uses/quotes his prior works in his scores. I'm inclined to believe that this was his choice. There are bits of Interview With The Vampire, Alien 3 and Demolition Man in both of his Batman scores. Sections from IWTV, Alien 3 show up in Titus. Incidental material from Titus appears in The Glorias. His Symphony No. 2 is built around material from Sphere and Final Fantasy. Slightly tangential query, is his second symphony the Symphony in G assuming the Othello Symphony was ostensibly his first? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted July 22, 2022 Author Share Posted July 22, 2022 29 minutes ago, Tom Guernsey said: Slightly tangential query, is his second symphony the Symphony in G assuming the Othello Symphony was ostensibly his first? That's right, although I think it was in G# minor haha. Othello also has heaps of ideas and fragments adapted from his other scores, that's just how composers operate. bruce marshall 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,810 Posted July 22, 2022 Share Posted July 22, 2022 32 minutes ago, Archive Collection said: That's right, although I think it was in G# minor haha. Othello also has heaps of ideas and fragments adapted from his other scores, that's just how composers operate. As a musician and composer I should have spotted that. The fun alternative to A flat minor… however thanks for the info. I’ll give that a listen later. I recall it being thornier than the Othello Symphony (which is terrific, as is the original ballet) but a very fine work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted July 23, 2022 Author Share Posted July 23, 2022 15 hours ago, Tom Guernsey said: As a musician and composer I should have spotted that. The fun alternative to A flat minor… however thanks for the info. I’ll give that a listen later. I recall it being thornier than the Othello Symphony (which is terrific, as is the original ballet) but a very fine work. If I recall correctly, it's essentially a development of Sphere's "Main Title" and Final Fantasy's "Toccata and Dreamscapes". The Othello symphony (and original ballet) are both excellent. Davis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crocodile 8,739 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 While I do like the symphony version the ballet version is still superior. It might be my favourite work from Goldenthal actually. Karol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Guernsey 2,810 Posted July 23, 2022 Share Posted July 23, 2022 7 hours ago, Archive Collection said: If I recall correctly, it's essentially a development of Sphere's "Main Title" and Final Fantasy's "Toccata and Dreamscapes". The Othello symphony (and original ballet) are both excellent. I'll have to give them another listen and compare. I guess with Goldenthal, much of his work can sound like a sideways development of another, especially with all those various idiosyncratic orchestral devices (the wailing brass, for example) he employs that are unmistakably him. I therefore don't really think to listen out for callbacks to specific works in his concert pieces, just assuming he's simply deploying his well developed and instantly recognisable composing style (none of this is meant as a criticism!). 2 hours ago, crocodile said: While I do like the symphony version the ballet version is still superior. It might be my favourite work from Goldenthal actually. Karol Agree about the Othello symphony and ballet, I need to give them both another listen. The ballet used to be one of my favourite Goldenthal works in any medium (although if it isn't, I don't know what is!). A bit like with some of Elfman's concert works, it's like a distillation of the essence of Goldenthal's music in its purest form. Terrific stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted July 24, 2022 Author Share Posted July 24, 2022 On 23/7/2022 at 4:51 PM, crocodile said: While I do like the symphony version the ballet version is still superior. It might be my favourite work from Goldenthal actually. Karol Just listened to the ballet version recently, and I agree. The recording is excellent. Batman Forever and Interview With The Vampire would probably be my favourite scores, but I really appreciate the intelligence and sophistication of his concert works. As much as I enjoy EG’s integration of electronic production elements into his film music, it is nice to hear a more organic and refined sound. I really hope that Goldenthal can score a few more big-budget action films - even if the film is rubbish, his music never fails to deliver. Davis 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thestat 456 Posted July 25, 2022 Share Posted July 25, 2022 EG was truly a pioneer, a visionary, but he also had a very idiosyncratic style. I write this in the past tense as EG has not been doing much lately outside of repurposing his works for symphonies. Man, EG was such a fresh sound in 1992. Then, the horns got approximated, etc. I largely blame Brian Tyler for this. 2003's Hunted was when I truly noticed the massive Goldenthal 'homage': Just to be clear. Tyler was ahead of the game here and he did not copy any EG work but used the general approach - massive brass, percussion, atonality, dark if any melodies - but Tyler was so promising. Now he is a car advertisement. And the score stuff he does is just empty nonsense. How does he live with himself, especially after composing amazing stuff like this...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HunterTech 1,338 Posted July 26, 2022 Share Posted July 26, 2022 There's a very likely answer to why Tyler had that: he shares Robert Elhai as an orchestrator with Goldenthal. So chances are, any potential similarities might have to do with that particular factoid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WampaRat 1,321 Posted July 30, 2022 Share Posted July 30, 2022 Made this and shared it in the custom covers thread. But maybe one day… Boy these are some damn fun Batman scores Davis and revdelvo 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revdelvo 0 Posted September 9, 2022 Share Posted September 9, 2022 I came here to find out where the tracks featured in this video uploaded to YouTube by Xxensational came from and am kind of surprised to see that it hasn't been discussed at all here. At first, I thought it might be a reconstruction, but listening to it more closely, it's definitely the real thing. The highest quality recordings of the score I could find on the internet. The question is, who is Xxensational and how do they have access to these recordings? The question has been asked in that video's comment section but the uploader hasn't responded. Does anyone have any insight, or is Xxensational perhaps among us? I'd be stoked to learn that there's a version of the entire score out there that's as high quality as this video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Archive Collection 218 Posted September 10, 2022 Author Share Posted September 10, 2022 6 hours ago, revdelvo said: I came here to find out where the tracks featured in this video uploaded to YouTube by Xxensational came from and am kind of surprised to see that it hasn't been discussed at all here. At first, I thought it might be a reconstruction, but listening to it more closely, it's definitely the real thing. The highest quality recordings of the score I could find on the internet. The question is, who is Xxensational and how do they have access to these recordings? The question has been asked in that video's comment section but the uploader hasn't responded. Does anyone have any insight, or is Xxensational perhaps among us? I'd be stoked to learn that there's a version of the entire score out there that's as high quality as this video. The recording sessions have leaked online, in lossless quality. There are a few cues missing from the sessions but most of the score is there online, you’ll just need to do a bit of googling, but it’s not hard to find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
revdelvo 0 Posted September 10, 2022 Share Posted September 10, 2022 1 hour ago, Archive Collection said: The recording sessions have leaked online, in lossless quality. There are a few cues missing from the sessions but most of the score is there online, you’ll just need to do a bit of googling, but it’s not hard to find. Strange, I've been looking for so long but I guess I just used the wrong keywords. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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