[The Movie Critic (Quentin Tarantino's supposed final movie)]

4 hours ago, mrbellamy said:

He can always take back his position that Kill Bill is one movie and call them two movies, which they are. In that sense he's already made 10, anyway. 

 

Though that is literally 1 from released in 2 parts. It was written and shot as 1 film. Only in editing did they decide to release it in 2 parts.

[Do you think Saving Private Ryan is a masterpiece?]

Hymn to the Fallen is music fit for the funeral of presidents and war heroes.

[New Best Original Score Oscar rules from the Motion Picture Academy]

https://www.billboard.com/music/awards/oscar-rule-changes-best-original-score-1235662707/

 

Two main new rules.

 

Rule 1: I am calling this the SOUL rule change. If 3 composers win Best Score together - one 1 Oscar statue was awarded. So when Jon Batiste, Reznor and Ross won Oscar for Score, they were only given a single statue among the 3 of them. With this rule change, all 3 would get one.

 

Rule 2: The shortlist used to be 15 scores. Now 20 scores will be shortlisted before the final nomination announcement.

 

[The Bear McCreary Thread]

6 hours ago, Chen G. said:

 

For a while there, I had a suspicion that there had been something unsavoury happening behind the scenes, but I'm no longer inclined to think so, and at any rate this is the McCreary thread so I'm not going to rain on people's parade with explaining what might or might not have happened with another composer...

 

And I suppose because its just one piece by Howard, it does stick out. The way to appreciate it surely is to look at it as a prelude to the Shore scores, not within the framework of Bear's score. And as a prelude to Howard's scores, its pretty masterfull how Howard had distilled so much of his Tolkien "sound" into 90 seconds, and being that it IS a prelude to a show, in large part, about the past of Elvendom and Elrond, the allusions to Rivendell are extremly apposite.

 

And this is sad proof to my building thesis that Plan 9 and David Long are something of unsung heroes, because they also provided the show with some extremly worthwhile contributions: This is the second time that Plan 9 and David Long had written a song for a Tolkien piece that, at least as far as people at large are concerned, is the "big tune" of the piece.

 

I admit, something about the transition from Megan Richards singing a-cappella to a souped-up studio recording with accompaniment does feel a little saccharine to me, but the melody is very gratiating and sits very well with Shore's and Plan 9's previous contributions to the soundscapes of the Hobbits. The version by Plan 9's Janet Roddick is a very intelligent interpertation of the melody and lyrics.

 

5 hours ago, Richard Penna said:

My personal suspicion is that perhaps Shore offered to do some more themes and maybe even write some of the score, but that the showrunners didn't like his demos. I just can't think of another reason why him and Doug Adams would be clearly so agitated by the situation.

 

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

That was my suspicion for a while, too! But I've since been told on good authority that Shore only previewed the piece we hear.

 

5 hours ago, Jurassic Shark said:

Either that, or Bear shouldered him out.

 

5 hours ago, Chen G. said:

Listening to interviews with Bear, it seems the situation with Shore was already a given when Bear came on.

 

Or maybe there was disagreement about budget and timing and Shore couldn't agree to that. Writing 8 hours of music is a HUGE undertaking. I think Shore might have demanded much more time and a bigger budget and compensation for his services. TV schedule is too pushing for a composer of Shore's stature. 

 

Also think about it - this would have been an impossible gig for Shore. Imagine hiring John Williams to write 8 hours of new Star Wars music and tell him - you can't use a note of anything you wrote previously because we don't have the rights. That's putting him in a straight jacket. 

 

Shore would have to constantly watch out for falling into old modes as is bound to happen when you are returning to the same property. 

 

I mean 8 hours of new middle earth music from Shore would have been God's gift. but I ain't about to scoff at the score Bear wrote - I think he did a great job still. And we did get a great main title from Shore.

 

[The Bear McCreary Thread]

1 hour ago, Richard Penna said:

 

 

 

 

I'm probably never going to understand the love for Shore's main title piece 

 

It's a nice piece but just for my personal tastes it's overshadowed completely by Bear's themes and work overall. I probably wouldn't even have been that personally bothered if Shore had declined to allow it on the release (due to whatever crap went on that he doesn't want to talk about).

 

Honestly i find myself playing it often. I think it is a tremendous piece of writing, very refined and masterful - and that in just 90 seconds.

[The Official Zbigniew Preisner Thread]

I love Double Life of Veronique. Immense impact in the film and very memorable.

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

9 hours ago, JNHFan2000 said:

 

 

He again only and ONLY calls it the love theme - repeatedly - and does not mention House Atredies at all.

[96th Academy Awards (2024 Oscars for 2023 films)]

why was there dancing during that? i thought it was ridiculous.

[96th Academy Awards (2024 Oscars for 2023 films)]

49 minutes ago, Glóin the Dark said:

Very disappointed that Christopher Nolan’s Oscar night has been so temporally conventional. They could have mixed up the order, or had the winners return their awards rather than accept them or something.

 

 I would be in favor of Oppenheimer having to return back all of its awards. 

[96th Academy Awards (2024 Oscars for 2023 films)]

1 hour ago, Edmilson said:

Oppie is losing everything  will it go down in history as one of those movies who gets a lot of nominations and wins nothing?

 

Except for score of course, that award is already in Ludwig Gorannsson's shelf 

 

It's garbage. So of course it will win tons of oscars.

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

3 hours ago, Mephariel said:

 

The second half of "House Atreides" is feature prominently here. Part of the stanza bleeds into Paul and Chani's theme, but it is not quite the theme either.

 

Starts at 1:22

 

During the Armanda scene, the theme appears briefly

 

Starts at 2:03

 

The entire 3:30 segment opening of "House Atreides" is only on the sketchbook in Dune 1, but is feature prominently in Dune 2 as the love theme. What was actually played in Dune 1 does contain some variations of it, but never the whole thing.

 

 

 

Thanks. Honestly, it is sufficient for me to conclude that it is a love theme for Paul and Chani. And has nothing to do with the House Atridies. I understand the reference but it is oblique at best. 

 

I think we can use this as an explanation. 

 

Stephane Humez of RCP said - "

He's not necessarily lying. Keep in mind Dune 1 was finished late 2020. The film came out late 2021. Hans continued writing after Dune 1 was locked. The Sketchbook released in 2021 had ideas for both movies, with some segments probably written after Dune 1 was already finished."

Source: https://hans-zimmer.com/discography/1/project/3591

 

What he is saying is indeed true. If you remember Dune was in fact completed and ready to go in 2020 but was pushed by a year. So Zimmer has finished the score for part 1 a year before the album came out. So it is possible he kept writing and included some of his new material in the Sketchbook. 

 

--

We have to go by eventually what we see in the movies. In the movies, the love theme represents the love theme only. The director who cut the movie and stuck the score in there says it is a love theme - 

 

Denis Villeneuve said: "I wanted Hans to write something unforgettable for Chani. A love theme, the love of Paul for Chani. I wanted something heartbreaking, and the most beautiful love theme ever written, and honestly I think he did it with the track A Time of Quiet Between the Storms."

 

Literally neither the director or the guy who wrote the score are not calling it a Atredies theme. Jon Burlingame asks him to explain the theme and Zimmer doesn't say it is an Atredies theme.

---

The other reason is - there is already a kind of Atredies theme! It is the Caladan theme. Again going by the movie - it plays at prominent points where there is a strong sense of the Atredies as a unit. It plays at the climax of the movie to represent that and when Paul meets another family member (vague due to spoilers).

 

So I think that the Caladan theme represents the Atredies and the love theme represents Paul and Chani's relationship. 

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

27 minutes ago, Faleel said:

According to previous posts

 

"as well as the track “Armada” on the first movie’s album. An unreleased variation plays when the Atreides arrive to Arrakis for the first time."

 

can we verify this? are there film clips on youtube that show the scene where the theme plays in part 1?

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

Straight from the horse's mouth. When asked what does that theme represent, he says it's the love theme for Chani and Paul. He said nothing about House Atriedies.

[John Williams on Variety Cover (article & video)]

New to my was the fact that they he wrote Hedwig's theme in like an evening?

 

It is much too complex a piece - one of his most elaborately orchestrated to be written so quickly.

[John Williams on Variety Cover (article & video)]

What a smart erudite man - even at this age. 

[Exploring the Impact of Over-Editing on Film OSTs]

2 hours ago, Edmilson said:

Zimmer does it, but AFAIK mostly before actually scoring the film, in order to have some material that he (and his collaborators) can use - see the sketchbooks for Dune, WW1984, etc. I remember reading somewhere that The Da Vinci Code OST is mostly his suites and ideas for the movie than actual movie cues.

 

I'm aware of that but that doesn't count. It is just him doodling for 15 mins and slapping it on a "concept" album.

 

I think of a concert suite as an orchestrated special presentation of thematic material - designed to showcase a theme in an overt expansive fashion - in a way it might not have the opportunity to do in the actual film. It is also something that can be played in concerts etc. 

 

Ain't nobody playing a trash Zimmer 15 min "sketch" or whatever he calls that crap in a classical concert hall.

 

2 hours ago, GerateWohl said:

Jan A.P. Kaczmarek wrote special piano arrangments for the OST of Finding Neverland which won him the Oscar that year.

Alan Silvestri put a Suite of Forrest Gump on the OST and the song album of the movie but maybe that was just an edit of material from the score. I don't know.

Mark Mothersbaugh put a suite of Thor Ragnarok on its OST, maybe also just an edit.

Biggest disappointment in that sense was for me the end titles suite of John Powell's Solo, which according to him wasn't arranged by him but just put together by the music editor. For Star Wars I would have hoped for more.

 

 

This is exactly me point. We are counting a handful going back 20 years.

 

Concert suites isn't a standard practice for several reasons

 

- it is beyond the skill of most composers to write concert suites

- it is beyond the skill of most composers to writes themes worthy of concert suites

[Exploring the Impact of Over-Editing on Film OSTs]

On 5/3/2024 at 8:00 AM, Bespin said:

Is the composition of 'Concert Suites' a trend that is fading away?

 

Was it ever really a wide spread non Williams trend among modern composers?

 

I think from the 80s to now, Williams is the only composer who routinely wrote elaborate concert suites for his thematic material for nearly every score.

 

Few composers do this as regularly as him.

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

7 hours ago, MaxMovieMan said:

Lmfao not worth arguing about something I know I’m correct on. 

 

This is one of the most clueless things you can say - unless you wrote the score. You KNOW you are correct??? 

 

Everybody here is participating in a discussion - offering examples and explanations for their interpretations. Nobody is making proclamations that they their view is the only valid view. That would be a conceited and ridiculous way to go about things.

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

14 minutes ago, Faleel said:

Film music editors dialouts or deletions don't get to decide what theme's represent.

 

Zimmer has said he wrote it after the score was done or something like that. He specifically said he wrote the theme for the second film at the end of completing the score for part 1 and included it on the album.

 

Consequently, the love theme does not appear in Part 1, was not meant to appear in Part 1 and is NOT a house atridies theme.  The theme has no connection to house atridies.

 

 

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

1 hour ago, MaxMovieMan said:

The A theme is mainly for Sandworms. The B theme is for Paul and the prophecy in general. It doesn’t really usually play for Caladan. The Tragic Noble theme or the Vast Mystery chords fill that void. Also yes the love theme is the same theme that represents House Atreides. You can hear it in full in the track, “House Atreides” on the sketchbook album as well as the track “Armada” on the first movie’s album. An unreleased variation plays when the Atreides arrive to Arrakis for the first time. It’s usually played on bagpipes and not on flute which is why they sound so different. But don’t be mistaken it is the exact same melody.

 

The A theme plays in Dune Part 2 when Paul destroys the Harvester. The scene has nothing to with Sand Worms.

 

The B theme plays when he has a vision about the ocean and his sister and then in the end when he wins over Feyd.

 

If the House Atridies theme does not appear in the movie Part 1 then it doesn't count. It only appears in Part 2 and it only represents Chani/Paul. It does not represent House Atridies regardless of its name.

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

On 4/3/2024 at 5:15 AM, MaxMovieMan said:

To carry on @WampaRat’s thematic glossary I put together a thematic breakdown of the score as well as the chronological order. I’ve seen the film three times now and honestly it’s one of the best things I’ve watched in a long time. In combination with Part One I’d say this is a 10/10 movie.

 

RETURNING THEMES/MOTIFS

 

Dune Main Theme - 

I’ll be classifying the four-note theme as the “A” theme and the eight-note theme as the “B” theme to stay consistent. When both play at once I’ll refer to it as the main theme.

Fate/“The One” Theme - 

There is a major missing variation of this theme that plays towards the end of the film. It has the Kwisatz Haderach motif as a counterpoint. I’m sure this will be on the FYC album.

 

Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords - 

Sadly this motif takes a backseat this time around. It plays a select couple times but doesn’t nearly have the presence it did in the first film.

 

Tragic Noble Theme - 

Another theme that is diluted this time around. It has a great appearance at the end of “Only I Will Remain” but that track doesn’t actually play during the film only the credits.

 

Impending Doom Motif - 

Although not actually appearing as much as it did in the first film, this motif makes a major impact on the film by playing in select important scenes relating to Paul’s dark future or even the darker actions he takes here.

 

Sorrow/Loss Motif - 

Sadly not featured on the album but there is a track in the film that features this motif. It plays twice and both times relates to how the Bene Gesserit prophecy is taking over the Fremen and leading them to war. Hopefully this track will be on FYC album.

 

House Atreides/Paul and Chani’s Love Theme - 

This theme goes from barely being featured in the first film to becoming the main theme of the second. It evolves from the bagpipe power anthem for House Atreides to a beautiful woodwind/Blade Runner-esque love theme for Paul and Chani.

 

Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants

 

Arrakis Drum Motif

 

Harkonnen Screech

 

Harkonnen Clang

 

NEW THEMES/MOTIFS

 

Feyd Rautha Motif -  

Heard more in the film itself, this is a dark cello motif that represents the chaotically evil Feyd Rautha.

 

(Harkonnen Arena - 0:00, 0:44)

(Seduction - 0:00)

 

Kwisatz Haderach Motif - 

New dark three-note cello motif for the culmination of the Bene Gesserit breeding process; the Kwisatz Haderach. Also has a drum rhythm behind it. Blares loud in theaters and often acts as a counterpoint to other main themes. It represents both Paul and Feyd as they’re both prospects for the Kwisatz Haderach.

 

(Harkonnen Arena - 4:48)

(Travel South - 0:06)

(Arrival - 0:00)

(You Fought Well - 0:12)

 

The Emperor’s Motif - 

Loud and grand motif that represents the emperor of the known universe. Features choir and some brass which most of Dune doesn’t have.

 

(The Emperor - 0:39)

 

TRACK-BY-TRACK BREAKDOWN (In chronological order)

 

Eclipse

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The opening track of the film where Princess Irulan recaps what happened to House Atreides in the last film and the aftermath of that massacre. This then cuts to Arrakis where the larger moon begins to eclipse the sun.

0:30 - Arrakis Drums

0:45 - Tragic Noble Theme

1:02 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords

1:36 - Impending Doom Motif

3:00 - Arrakis Drums

 

The Sietch

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul and Jessica are brought into Sietch Tabr by the Fremen. They are not welcomed and it’s almost impossible to make it through because so many people are blocking their way.

0:40 - Dune “A” Theme

1:12 - Dune “B” Theme

1:24 - Dune “A” Theme

2:15 - Fate/“The One” Theme

2:22 - Arrakis Drums

 

Water of Life

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Jessica drinks the Water of Life. It’s as trippy as I imagined reading the book.

0:12 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants

 

Beginnings Are Such Delicate Times

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Only the beginning section of this track is used. It’s when Chani meets Paul in the desert and teaches him how to sand-walk. Paul and Chani then have a nice moment chilling on the dunes together. The House Atreides theme is transformed into a soft love theme on some kind of woodwind for Paul and Chani. It’s actually very beautiful.

0:00 - Arrakis Drums

0:19 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme

 

Harvester Attack

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Fremen take down a Harkonnen Spice Harvester.

1:04 - Arrakis Drums

1:45 - Impending Doom Motif

3:10 - Dune “A” Theme

 

A Time of Quiet Between Storms

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul and Chani officially fall in love as the transformed House Atreides/Paul and Chani theme goes full force. A montage then shows Paul’s development as a legend to the Fremen people.

0:28 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme

 

Worm Ride

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul conquers Shai-Hulud by riding a grandfather sandworm. This track is probably one of my favorites just because of how beautiful the main theme sounds here and how well it works with the scene. Paul riding the sandworm is the most badass scene I’ve seen in a while and it was so satisfying to see him do it. Brought the book to life.

0:03 - Arrakis Drums

0:44 - Fate/“The One” Theme

0:51 - Dune Main Theme

 

Ornithopter Attack

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Raban and his Harkonnens attempt to stop the growing Fremen threat but are embarrassingly easily defeated by Muad’Dib.

0:03 - Harkonnen Screech

0:06 - Harkonnen Clang

1:30 - I don’t know what theme this is but it sounds like something from Batman lol.

 

Each Man Is a Little War

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Feyd Rautha picks out the blades he’s gonna use in his arena fight. He tests them out on the poor assistants helping him.

 

Harkonnen Arena

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Feyd Rautha fights three Atreides soldiers on Geidi Prime. This track is one of my personal favorites just because of its crazy marching rhythm and alien sound.

0:00 - Feyd Rautha Motif

0:52 - Harkonnen Screech

1:25 - Feyd Rautha Motif

4:48 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif Rhythm

5:00 - Harkonnen Screech

 

Seduction

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Margot Fenring lures Feyd into her quarters where she pulls out the Gom Jabbar on him.

0:00 - Feyd Rautha Motif

0:04 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants

0:50 - Bene Gesserit Seduction Theme

 

Spice

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul has a terrible dream of a massive explosion in the distance and Chani’s skin burnt to a crisp.

 

Never Lose Me

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul tells Chani that he’s afraid he’ll lose her if he goes south but she tells him that’ll never happen as long as he stays who he is.

0:09 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme

 

Travel South

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The surviving Fremen travel south on sandworms while Paul diverges on his own to take the Water of Life.

0:06 - Dune “A” Theme

0:06 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif

0:54 - Fate/“The One” Theme

 

Paul Drinks

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Chani gives her teardrop to Paul in his mouth which allows him to awake from his coma.

0:35 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme

 

Resurrection

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul becomes the Kwisatz Haderach and discovers the truth of his lineage.

0:04 - Fate/“The One” Theme

0:58 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants

1:35 - Impending Doom Motif

 

Arrival

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul arrives to the Fremen meeting in the south, fully transformed into the Kwisatz Haderach. The Fremen who once blocked his way now pave the way for his entrance. The Kwisatz Haderach motif and the Dune “A” theme work in unison to create the ultimate march for Paul’s ascendancy.

0:00 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif

0:56 - Dune “A” Theme

 

Southern Messiah

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul speaks at the Fremen meeting and rallies all of them behind him as the Lisan al Gaib; Mahdi. Probably my favorite track just due to its epic use of the Impending Doom motif. Also this scene features my favorite line of the film, “At that time this world had a Fremen name; Dune.” Paul transforms into his destiny here and it’s not portrayed as heroic for a reason. It’s portrayed as terrifying.

1:22 - Impending Doom Motif

1:42 - Bene Gesserit Whispers/Chants

2:02 - Impending Doom Motif

4:05 - Vast Mystery/Wonder Chords

4:18 - Tragic Noble Theme

4:43 - Arrakis Drums

4:46 - Impending Doom Motif

 

The Emperor

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The emperor arrives on Arrakis.

0:39 - The Emperor’s Motif

 

Worm Army

 

  Reveal hidden contents

The Fremen ambush the Sardukar army on giant sandworms while Chani and her Fedaykin attack on foot. I love what Hans does with the Dune “A” Theme here it sounds so badass in action mode.

1:30 - Dune “A” Theme

2:14 - Bane?!?

2:32 - Dune “A” Theme

 

Gurney Battle

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Gurney Halleck leads the Fremen against the Harkonnens where he eventually catches up with Raban. They fight but it lasts like two seconds as Halleck takes one stab at Raban’s neck and the fight’s over.

0:05 - Harkonnen Screech

0:26 - House Atreides Theme

2:05 - Harkonnen Screech

 

You Fought Well

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul defeats Feyd in combat and approaches the emperor.

0:01 - Dune “B” Theme

0:12 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif

0:48 - Dune “B” Theme

0:48 - Kwisatz Haderach Motif

 

Kiss the Ring

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Paul makes the emperor kiss his ring and officially ascends the Golden Lion Throne. The other great houses decide to dispute this so Paul sends the Fremen up to wipe them all out. Meanwhile Chani leaves all of this and rides away on a sandworm.

0:33 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme

 

Only I Will Remain

 

End credits track.

 

0:00 - House Atreides/Paul and Chani Love Theme

3:42 - Arrakis Drums

3:54 - Tragic Noble Theme

 

Lisan al Gaib

 

Bonus track with the main two themes of Dune.

 

0:00 - Fate/“The One” Theme

0:05 - Arrakis Drums

2:30 - Dune “B” Theme

4:09 - Dune Main Theme

6:11 - Arrakis Drums

 

Correct me on any mistakes I made and I hope you enjoyed the post.

 

My observation

 

 What you are calling Dune A is the Muadib theme. It plays whenever Paul does something prophetic or something that designates him to be the Muadib.

 

 Dune B is the Caladhan theme or the theme representing his home world. It plays whenever there is the sense of Paul's Caladhan heritage.

 

 The Chani and Paul love theme is only their love their theme. Does it ever really play in any context where it represents the Atrideies House? If it never appears in the film away from Chani/Paul then it can be said to be only their love theme.

[New 20 minute audio interview: John Williams At The Movies]

16 hours ago, BrotherSound said:

One interesting tidbit is that JW initially wrote three concert arrangements, before he decided to take on the entire score: one for Helena, one for the Nazis, and one for Archimedes and the dial. This seems to confirm @Jay's speculation that "Nazis" on the GEMA cue list is a concert arrangement.

I noticed that and wondered if we have those 3 suits as he first wrote and recorded them.

 

EDIT: He mentions the famous Laura theme from David Raksin as a reference for Helena's Theme.

[2023 John Williams Official top 10 film scores. Your individual lists.]

3 hours ago, danbeck said:

Well The Reivers received one single vote at 2nd spot. 

I  was also surprised that The Cowboys was not listed by anyone.

 

That was my vote! It didn't help it much though  

[2023 John Williams Official top 10 film scores. Your individual lists.]

Kinda sad to see The Reivers not even making Top 50. I think it might have to do with how obscure it is - both the film and score - rarely seen and rarely heard. 

[Hans Zimmer's DUNE PART TWO (2024)]

CC's review is very unclear about what that theme represents. 

 

How many times does it appear in the film and what does it represent based on that?