Lincoln SCORE Discussion thread

[Marian Schedenig 8,276]

For those still stuck with the European situation: I just received mine from CDWOW.

[Not Mr. Big 4,655]

A commentor on the IMDB Lincoln board said John Williams should be "put to sleep". I need to stop reading IMDB boards.

[pete 910]

He should be put to bed every night before 11 and told what a good boy he is.

[TownerFan 4,992]

Here's an article about the Chicago Symphony and Lincoln:

http://www.suntimes....or-lincoln.html

“I told my wife that when my whole career is said and done, whether it’s in one year or 10 years or 30 years, I’ll look back and this will truly be one of the top three or four highlights of my whole life,” said principal trumpeter Christopher Martin, a fan of Williams’ music since childhood.

Wonderful piece, thank you indy4.

For those still stuck with the European situation: I just received mine from CDWOW.

Amazon Italy has it available from today.

[Luke Skywalker 1,815]

i received it today from amazon.com.

And i cant open it because it will be a christams present... :noooooo:

I read the back cover, and i think the 'traditional' is credited because it is arranged and performed by that Jim Taylor.

The rest of the traditionals maybe arent mentioned because they are played by he chicago symphony and arranged by Williams or his orchestrators.

But all traditionals should be credited in the liner notes

[jacksparrow900 35]

the battle cry of freedom was lincoln's campaign song for his re election in 1864.

[Incanus 5,738]

That is an interesting tidbit. Thanks jacksparrow900.

[TownerFan 4,992]

To the people who have seen the film and stayed through the end credits: can you confirm there are no orchestrators listed in the movie as well?

[publicist 4,643]

Maybe Williams did it himself since there was enough time and the music was not requiring huge amounts of fireworks.

[crocodile 8,112]

One of my definite favourite tracks on this album is Freedom's Call.

As for the themes, today it's Malice Towards None.

Karol

[publicist 4,643]

The PATRIOT-like fiddle work registers high on my iTunes count, too. I just deleted the more atmospheric stuff like THE DREAM and the traditionals, the rest just moves by effortlessly. The fact that Williams presents to-the-point 90-second versions of his main theme here - why stretch it like chewing gum? - are a big plus, too.

[indy4 155]

If Lincoln sounds familiar this might be why. Check out 0:13, 0:31 and 0:49 of this work:

Not saying JW is a cheat or a hack, but I think there was definitely some inspiration.

[KK 3,307]

I recognized the resemblance from the second I first heard Lincoln. It's all very Coplandesque, especially that theme in particular. But generally Williams' Americana is stylistically close to Copland, so this may have been a subconscious thing. Regardless, Lincoln is still very much Williams. I have no problem with this.

[lostinspace 8]

I see what you mean that ( Williams transposes the key) G C E D ..... G C A D.......

I wonder if it is an homage to Copland. Williams does this a lot.... he references other composers but then develops the material in to something quite different.

E.g. Duel of Fates G A G F# E motif I think is Dvorak. But the melody JW lays on top is his own.

Incidentally this theme from Lincoln sounds like a cousin of War horse..... remember G C E C .... G C E.... C G... E etc etc. A lot of the tunes in Lincoln seem like American folk tunes?? At least they sound familiar maybe remiscent of Sousa ?

[indy4 155]

Interesting...what piece by Dvorak do you hear Duel of the Fates in?

[tannhauser 101]

Symphony no. 9, mvmt 3

[indy4 155]

Oh wow, that's New World symphony! Can't believe I haven't recognized it yet, I'll give it a listen later tonight and see if I can spot it. Thanks!

[tannhauser 101]

Listen out for Jaws in the opening of the 4th movement too!

[indy4 155]

That I have noticed...although not sure if I would call that a direct influence, it seems more of a stretch to me.

[Joni Wiljami 1,206]

Indeed. The tone/mood is totally different.

There are better influences for example in Peter and the Wolf.

And I never heard any DOTF in Dvorak's music.

[indy4 155]

The closest thing I've ever heard to a Jaws influence is probably from Rite of Spring. The part that also influences Star Wars imperial music.

Listening to Dvorak 9 right now...I hear the part you guys are referring to, right in the beginning of the third movement, but again I think this is a little bit of a stretch. It's very different from DotF.

A lot of the tunes in Lincoln seem like American folk tunes?? At least they sound familiar maybe remiscent of Sousa ?

That's what I thought when I heard Lincoln's theme (I think that's what it represents). The bouncy one

[ymenard 54]

You know, Copland *did* write a piece for Lincoln.

[TownerFan 4,992]

Williams is channeling Copland all throughout Lincoln almost to the point it becomes useless to even notice it. I guess he considers this Copland-esque vernacular as part of the fabric of true American music he's trying to convey in his own work. Also, you have to keep in mind that the major "populist" works such as Appalachian Spring, Rodeo and Billy the Kid contain a lot of references to American folk/popular music of the 18th/19th century.

[Incanus 5,738]

There is clear resemblance of those 4 notes to the opening of the People's House theme but as Maurizio above said Williams is clearly merging his own very Copland influenced Americana writing with the vernacular of the period, much like Copland did when he explored the folk songs and music of his native country in his works. Interesting nod to Applachian Spring though.

[JoeinAR 1,949]

So Like James Horner and Jerry Goldsmith, and every other composer John is a thief.

[stewdog1 50]

So Like James Horner and Jerry Goldsmith, and every other composer John is a thief.

Yes

Sent from Tapatalk

[MSM 126]

Indeed. The tone/mood is totally different.

There are better influences for example in Peter and the Wolf.

There are even much better examples by Lalo Schifrin and Bernard Herrmann.

[lostinspace 8]

Yeah - actually I cant remember if the DOTF motif g a g f# e is from dvorak or some other composer. I fully agree just because you use a motif you are not plagiarising others. The mood created is way different. In fact I think that is what separates JW from classical/20th century composers- film music is a lot more direct.

Another favourite JW motif is the ( I think it is the dies irae)?? used all the time eg. star wars, jurassic park (high wire stunts) , Schindlers list. Also the motif g F# a e,

again these are all building blocks for a composer.

[indy4 155]

To be an exact version of Dies Irae the third note would be a G, but it could be a variation. And Williams does use an exact version in Star Wars and "High Wire Stunts."

[Marc 775]

The first four bars of "With Malice Toward None" always remind me of Mancini's The Sweetheart Tree..

It's almost exactly the same with a few extra notes

[publicist 4,643]

Ha...its true;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_wXFnBn7xc

[BLUMENKOHL 1,071]

This always reminded me of E.T. Escape Chase Blah-di-blah long title.

[chuck 155]

Several passages also remind me of Jerry Goldsmith's Explorers.

[mrbellamy 6,354]

John got his first awards nomination for Lincoln today, at the Golden Satellites: http://www.indiewire.com/article/complete-list-of-2012-satellite-award-nominations?page=2#articleHeaderPanel

Meanwhile, DDL, Sally Field, and Tony Kushner cleaned up with the New York Film Critics: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/12/03/us-nyfilmcritics-awards-idUSBRE8B218W20121203

[indy4 155]

Hmmm, no The Hobbit for film score? Did it miss the deadline, I wonder, or was it just not nominated? Of the titles I'm familiar with, I don't recognize any obvious threat to JW.

[mrbellamy 6,354]

The Hobbit is absent from the list, entirely, so either it wasn't screened in time or they just plain didn't like it. I assume the former, it seems odd it wouldn't at least be competing in something like Visual Effects. I wonder if the score will even be eligible for Oscars, though.

If it were just based on musical merit, I think The Master, Anna Karenina, and Beasts of the Southern Wild would probably have the best shots against Lincoln. But throw in the fact that Argo and Skyfall also have Best Picture nominations with this group and it could be any of them, really.

[indy4 155]

This ceremony doesn't really matter anyways, but sometimes these things can be predictive of the Oscars. That's a good point about the Hobbit. It isn't entirely by Howard Shore, and some of it is from LotR. THat may be enough to DQ it.

[mrbellamy 6,354]

Yeah, the Golden Satellites are kind of a non-issue, but I thought I'd post it since it is kicking off awards season and it's JW's first Lincoln nom, hopefully of many!

[Richard Penna 3,786]

From what I've heard of The Hobbit, there's no more lifted from LotR than RotK had.

I think Shore's bigger threat is Plan 9.

Footnote: I don't care.

[JamieC 13]

In watching the movie yesterday the use of JW's music on several occasions to 'lead' the audience out of a scene, rather than lead them through it entirely, reminded me of how Nino Rota's music was placed in The Godfather. The Lincoln soundtrack perfectly embodies the 'spirit' of the film.

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

There's a litte quote to Vaughan-Williams in Freedom's Call at 2:07, aprox... It's just a few seconds, but the first five notes are the same from Fantasia on a Thomas Tallis Theme (with different chords, of course), changing to a completelty different note on the sixth. It repeats twice, the first time it's quite forte and the second one, right after the ff one, really reminds me of Vaughan.

Of maybe it's a quote to Thomas Tallis, whatever

[Incanus 5,738]

Yes both War Horse and Lincoln feature similar pastoral string writing that does evoke Vaughan Williams in places quite a lot. Beautiful stuff.

Lincoln has been a regular visitor in my CD player these past months and I have to say I really appreciate its understated beauty which is at the same time strangely comforting. It feels like you are coming home when listening to this CD.

[crocodile 8,112]

Yes both War Horse and Lincoln feature similar pastoral string writing that does evoke Vaughan Williams in places quite a lot. Beautiful stuff.

I like those bits, but the resemblence bothers me slightly. A bit too close.

Karol

[Incanus 5,738]

Yes both War Horse and Lincoln feature similar pastoral string writing that does evoke Vaughan Williams in places quite a lot. Beautiful stuff.

I like those bits, but the resemblence bothers me slightly. A bit too close.

Karol

Come Horner apologist! If you can forgive him, you can surely forgive ol' Johnny his transgressions!

[crocodile 8,112]

Jimmy Horner was always a bad influence. Johnny should have listened and stayed away from him.

Karol

[indy4 155]

What part of VAughn Williams' work is quoted?

[crocodile 8,112]

None, but the openning just reminds me of Vaughan-Williams arrangement of this tune. A bit.

Karol

[Muad'Dib 1,802]

None

You're kidding! 12:18... (although it repeats several times through the piece, that one is my favorite particular variation)

And 02:07 and 02:20...

[crocodile 8,112]

Oh I was talking about War Horse. Me bad.

Karol

[indy4 155]

Thanks for the link...I agree the two are definitely not coincidence.