Michael Giacchino's Rogue One: A Star Wars Story (2016) - 2022 Expanded Edition now available

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Brilliant!

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

54 minutes ago, Miz said:

Metrically rigid: so it doesn't change time-signatures? Most music doesn't within any given 40 seconds? Or is it the same rhythm without, say, halving time.

 

I should've been more clear. Metrically rigid to me means being a fixed to a metre, and lacking rhythmically destabilising features such as syncopations, anticipations and hemiolas. Heavy-footed, in other words, like an Olympic lifter vs. Johnny's middleweight boxer.

 

54 minutes ago, Miz said:

Harmonic pallet: what's pred. tritones?

Predominately tritones. Tritones are another word for augmented 4ths/diminished 5ths, the second most dissonant interval after minor seconds/semitones.

 

54 minutes ago, Miz said:

Rhetoric over syntax: would more syntactical music have figures that presage coming ones, or callbacks...rather than one section after the next.

 

You've got it. Gia composes in a very sequential, moment-to-moment form that's governed more by rhetorical gestures (i.e. the shock "stinger" chord as the squad of stormtroopers appear in the alley) than an internal structure. Due to the exigencies of modern film music (pleasing the director, producer, studio reps, test audiences, limited time etc) there is always natural tendency towards rhetoric, as a film composer must serve the film above all else. On the other hand purely syntactical score would be no better than than needle-dropped classical or library music. So there needs to be a balance, and thankfully some film composers manage to find it.

 

54 minutes ago, Miz said:

Circumscribed use of orchestra: not enough xylophone?

 

 

It just sounds like one, muddy, homogenous blur to my ears.

 

54 minutes ago, Miz said:

From my limited understanding, I expect Williams avoids all of these pitfalls (all of the time?), and I suspect these features mark the difference between classical composers and (many) film score composers. Is there a piece of music you can recommend that excels on all of these features?

 

I think having an active background in concert music, jazz or pop can help a great deal in providing tools for writing music that also function on its own, and on its own terms.

 

Looking for examples from SW scores, I'll go with the Battle of Hoth from ESB.

 

 

[Cerebral Cortex 3,357]

Perhaps a trivial thing, but I honestly feel like more people would like Giacchino if his scores weren't recorded and mixed so consistently harsh (can't think of a better word for it). There are moments where there is some truly good music taking place but the way in which it gets recorded often sounds a bit volatile and is a bit of a turn off at times, if that makes sense. Granted, some people will say that's just like trying to polish a turd, but I do think that's make a difference. Perhaps not the thread to bring this up.

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Yes. A lot of his scores don't sound good at all.

[Jay 37,369]

Dan Wallin ruined a lot of his scores, but since Wallin retired Joel Iwataki took over and his recordings sound immensely better.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Jurassic World and Beyond still don't sound great though.

[Giftheck 916]

They're better than 2009, but not as good-sounding as Into Darkness.

[Jay 37,369]

Into Darkness is the best sounding Giacchino score recording for whatever reason... along with Dawn of the POTA

[antovolk 95]

 

[Jay 37,369]

Neat, thanks!

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

1 hour ago, antovolk said:

 

 

It cuts of right when it is building to a big theme statement. Bummer.

[Chewy 2,391]

Love what I'm hearing, I don't know but it sounds a bit like some prequel music. I'm even more hyped by that Giacchino score now!!

[Will 2,215]

More music?!!! 

 

I'll have to listen as soon as I get home.

[Chewy 2,391]

Yeah! Much better than the music from the first clip!

[Will 2,215]

Wow! Sounds terrific. I have a feeling that what it's building up to is Jyn's theme. 

[leeallen01 2,136]

Nice build up. Looking forward to hearing the sweeping moment that it's obviously building to.

[Will 2,215]

As a side note, I am the only one who thinks the opening couple seconds of music sound very similar to some of the trailer material (the final theatrical one)?

 

2 hours ago, ChewyBomber said:

Love what I'm hearing, I don't know but it sounds a bit like some prequel music. I'm even more hyped by that Giacchino score now!!

 

I do sort of hear what you mean by that. I almost feel like it's going to break out into a huge, glorious rendition of the Force theme (like some of the ones in the prequels). 

[justaguy 68]

Here you go, guys:

Build-up!.mp3

[Will 2,215]

4 minutes ago, zaddini said:

Here you go, guys:

Build-up!.mp3

 

Yeah, Gia described Jyn's theme in a way that sounded very familiar to Night on the Yorktown, so I'm guessing there will be some similarly sweeping moments in this score. Yay! 

[gkgyver 1,645]

Who is the annoying robot doing the Sheldon Cooper gimmick?

[Arpy 4,145]

28 minutes ago, gkgyver said:

Who is the annoying robot doing the Sheldon Cooper gimmick?

It's Alan Tudyk, although he sounds too much like Paul Bettany's Jarvis from Iron Man.

[Will 2,215]

I'm really hoping that Giacchino knocks it out of the park with this one. 

 

I mean, I was just thinking about how great a moment this must be for him.

 

To score a Star Wars film must have been his dream for so many years. I'm sure he must feel very emotional about this, and I hope that shows in his writing.

[Jay 37,369]

The problem is he only had four weeks to wrote it, instead of four months 

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

Thats no excuse!

[Arpy 4,145]

Replacing Desplat was no excuse, but here we are...

 

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

Lol at the Yorktown cut. Obviously the opening notes sound very similar but I didn't want to mention it because it seems people already accuse Gia of using the same theme over and over again.

 

So we got the same theme in Doctor Strange and Star Trek Beyond.

 

Now same theme in Rogue one and Star Trek Beyond again?

 

: P

[Arpy 4,145]

I don't hear Yorktown in there...

[Mattris 416]

 

This newly-uploaded video of gameplay from the Battlefront: Rogue One video-game contains, what I presume, are cues from Giacchino's score... along with gobs of sfx and voice-overs. Start-times for the cues within:  0:51   5:31   9:52   11:00  15:01

 

WARNING: The video is (most likely) film spoiler-y.

[Giftheck 916]

5 minutes ago, mattmane said:

 

This newly-uploaded video of gameplay from the Battlefront: Rogue One video-game contains, what I presume, are cues from Giacchino's score... along with gobs of sfx and voice-overs. Start-times for the cues within:  0:51   5:23   9:52   11:00  15:01

 

WARNING: The video (lost likely) contains film spoilers.

 

Nope, those are all Gordy Haab and they are all used in the rest of the game too. The only new one is for Jyn's entrance and that too is definitely Gordy, though I don't know if he quoted Giacchino.

 

(on a side note, at least the VO they got for Jyn Erso sounds like Felicity Jones)

[Luke Skywalker 1,795]

Oh, it seems the U-Wing has "set wings on U-foils" positions

 

[artguy360 1,843]

This is an odd observation but hear me out: JW does epic and adventure effortlessly whether it's Star Wars, Indy, Jurassic Park, or Harry Potter. He writes music that feels effortless and inevitable which he himself talks about all the time. But Gia's music almost always sounds strained when he tries to go epic. His Jurassic World score sounds that way to me, as do some parts of his Star Trek score, especially the Yorktown music. The music itself sounds like it's trying really hard. Maybe that's his musical rigidity or just the fact that JW is a unique talent, idk.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

It's not odd at all. Many of us share that observation. Gia in epic adventure mode seems to always be punching above his weight.

[justaguy 68]

4 hours ago, Gistech said:

 

The only new one is for Jyn's entrance and that too is definitely Gordy, though I don't know if he quoted Giacchino.

If you mean the piece around 9:50 it's an old theme by Gordy.

 

 

1:42, 2:28 Even has your comment, sir!  

[toothless 964]

 

[Miz 139]

23 hours ago, Teddy 3000 said:

 

I should've been more clear. Metrically rigid to me means being a fixed to a metre, and lacking rhythmically destabilising features such as syncopations, anticipations and hemiolas. Heavy-footed, in other words, like an Olympic lifter vs. Johnny's middleweight boxer.

 

Predominately tritones. Tritones are another word for augmented 4ths/diminished 5ths, the second most dissonant interval after minor seconds/semitones.

 

 

You've got it. Gia composes in a very sequential, moment-to-moment form that's governed more by rhetorical gestures (i.e. the shock "stinger" chord as the squad of stormtroopers appear in the alley) than an internal structure. Due to the exigencies of modern film music (pleasing the director, producer, studio reps, test audiences, limited time etc) there is always natural tendency towards rhetoric, as a film composer must serve the film above all else. On the other hand purely syntactical score would be no better than than needle-dropped classical or library music. So there needs to be a balance, and thankfully some film composers manage to find it.

 

 

 

It just sounds like one, muddy, homogenous blur to my ears.

 

 

I think having an active background in concert music, jazz or pop can help a great deal in providing tools for writing music that also function on its own, and on its own terms.

 

Looking for examples from SW scores, I'll go with the Battle of Hoth from ESB.

 

 

Thanks for the music theory run-down! Battle of Hoth is great on many levels; I was hoping for more specific instances of each of the things you mentioned, but no matter, I think I get it.

 

Another criticism of Giacchino is that his themes almost always take the form of repeating, deviating phrases, rather than long-line melodies. This was pointed out by someone else here a while ago. I still enjoy much of Giacchino's output though - however I think this score may be quite slapdash - and suffer from his major creative shortcomings - for being written so quickly, and right off the back of the unexceptional Doctor Strange. I still think his best score of recent times was Jupiter Ascending.

[TheUlyssesian 2,478]

7 hours ago, artguy360 said:

This is an odd observation but hear me out: JW does epic and adventure effortlessly whether it's Star Wars, Indy, Jurassic Park, or Harry Potter. He writes music that feels effortless and inevitable which he himself talks about all the time. But Gia's music almost always sounds strained when he tries to go epic. His Jurassic World score sounds that way to me, as do some parts of his Star Trek score, especially the Yorktown music. The music itself sounds like it's trying really hard. Maybe that's his musical rigidity or just the fact that JW is a unique talent, idk.

 

The devil is in the details - that is the orchestration. You can make the most banal melody sound awe-inspiring with the proper orchestration and a sense of musical drive, momentum, narrative and drama. Williams knows how to build cues, gradually bring in instruments, raise tempo and volume etc. etc., muddy the waters with counterpoint etc. to deliver an epic sound. THAT doesn't come naturally to many composers.

[Will 2,215]

44 minutes ago, toothless said:

 

 

Sounds great! 

 

I wonder if that's Jyn's theme we hear at the end... If it is, it sounds very much like Giacchino's Star Trek theme, etc. Not new ground. 

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Quote

Another criticism of Giacchino is that his themes almost always take the form of repeating, deviating phrases, rather than long-line melodies. This was pointed out by someone else here a while ago. I still enjoy much of Giacchino's output though - however I think this score may be quite slapdash - and suffer from his major creative shortcomings - for being written so quickly, and right off the back of the unexceptional Doctor Strange. I still think his best score of recent times was Jupiter Ascending.

 

I think he's a very effective dramatist, and that makes up for a lot of his technical shortfalls. One thing I wanted to add in my last comment but forget, is that his moment-to-moment writing is well suited for animation, where Mickey Mousing is often required and a composer needs to cover a large amount of music ground in a short space of time. So the very thing that works against him in live-action scoring plays to his advantage in The Incredibles, Inside Out, Ratatouille etc.

 

55 minutes ago, toothless said:

 

 

"If the rest of the cast can act, what chance do we have?"

[Will 2,215]

Oh, forgot to mention that I love the little trill thing around 3:16:

 

 

Combined with the picture as Cassain steps forward, it gives the character a certain Bond-like "coolness." 

[BloodBoal 7,538]

[Sharkissimo 1,973]

Not enough fluttertongueing alto flutes!

[Will 2,215]

6 minutes ago, BloodBoal said:

Wut? That split-second bit (which is something we've heard a thousand times in Djiatchino scores) is enough to make the character cool, "Bond-like cool!"? Either you're easily wowed, or I'm becoming too old for that shit!

 

I'm not saying it's the cue of the year or anything. I just think it's a well-scored moment!

[leeallen01 2,136]

Did I just see Senator Organa in that clip!? Or am I having prequelitis?

[Giftheck 916]

Just now, leeallen01 said:

Did I just see Senator Organa in that clip!? Or am I having prequelitis?

 

You should see your doctor about that

 

But yes, that was Bail Organa.

[leeallen01 2,136]

In the words of the great Andrew Sachs, "I know nothing" about Rogue One. And that's by choice and also not being bothered to research it, but that's cool that they are respecting the prequels and not ignoring them.

[#SnowyVernalSpringsEternal 10,265]

"Which Rogue? Which Rogue I know nothing?"

[Not Mr. Big 4,639]

4 hours ago, toothless said:

 

Much, much better than the last one, as far as far as 20 second clips go. I particularly like the french horn statement at the end.  

[BloodBoal 7,538]

Agreed.

[leeallen01 2,136]

This might actually be a very reserved and dignified score.